[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9

[legacy99]

Meka3000 are you saying sheldon doesn't know that when 2 people get married that they want want to go away my themselves. Sheldon really can't be that clueless

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[vasu]

in the first episode of the season when Leonard comes back to 4A alone... sheldon puzzled asks Leonard why he was there???

and yet few minutes later .... Sheldon says he did'nt imagine Leonard spending the night anyway else.....

clearly he is lying in one of the cases as the two are mutually exclusive....

Edited November 26, 2015 by vasu

[Tonstar17]

Here the thing if lenny didn't want their friends to see the wedding they wouldn't have sent a link for them to watch it. Here the thing he is supposed to be their best friends. (Never bought that) not once did he care about their wedding or even put aside his breakup for a couple of hours to support them as a good friend would do. He ruined it for everyone else. Nice one. Bringing Leonard's infidelity into the mix to make it not about the pet.

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[Einstein Von Brainstorm]

31 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

Why don't you go bug someone else with you sarcastic comments. You bore me. A least I admit when I'm wrong.

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This is a discussion forum where you quite confidently posted that someone else should have their facts straight before dis'ing your post ... when you yourself had your facts wrong! If I bore you put me on ignore.

[Tonstar17]

31 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said: Why don't you go bug someone else with you sarcastic comments. You bore me. A least I admit when I'm wrong.

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This is a discussion forum where you quite confidently posted that someone else should have their facts straight before dis'ing your post ... when you yourself had your facts wrong! If I bore you put me on ignore.

Done

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Kidding I never put anyone on the ignore it. It doesn't work anyway. I like to keep my haters closer cause I have so much stuff for them to be mad at and hate me more.

[Kasey]

I also thought that Sheldon bought the tickets for him and Amy and said so.  Thanks to Jenafan for clearing that up.  I knew I didn't just think that up....

[Einstein Von Brainstorm]

32 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

To me the only thing I would've changed was when we panned back to seeing Lenny that their commencement kiss had ended, THEN they wave to all their friends.  That is all.

Yeah it's hardly perfect, but its not a deal breaker for me.  Just a cake without a cherry on top.

So you thought it was ok?  

First viewing I wondered why they would want a tacky Vegas wedding but then I thought about the whole 'just the two of them' element and it sort of made sense to me, not the wedding many of us would choose but if that works for them then ok.

Until I read a poster on here complaining that it was the exact same way that she had 'married' Zach and that completely ruined it for me! 

[Tonstar17]

I also thought that Sheldon bought the tickets for him and Amy and said so.  Thanks to Jenafan for clearing that up.  I knew I didn't just think that up....

Must have read some speculation on the shamy thread and got stuck in my head. That's all I could think of.

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[meka3000]

8 minutes ago, Einstein Von Brainstorm said:

-So you thought it was ok?  

-Until I read a poster on here complaining that it was the exact same way that she had 'married' Zach and that completely ruined it for me! 

-Yeah.

-I saw it as them replacing the wedding that was a joke in Las Vegas, with the wedding that was for love.  Just another step in erasing that past mistake even more.  But that's just how I viewed it.

31 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

-Meka3000 are you saying sheldon doesn't know that when 2 people get married that they want want to go away my themselves.

-Sheldon really can't be that clueless

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-I'm saying that Sheldon cluelessly sees him as a part of Lenny's future sometimes.

-Sure he can, he didn't know what a sex tape was 2 seasons ago.  His brilliant plan for revenge against his girlfriend on christmas was to make her happy.  He cluelessly thought running past a guard at Skywalker Ranch without regards to the consequences was a good idea.  Sheldon for the most part is a social nimrod sometimes.

33 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

-(Never bought that) not once did he care about their wedding or even put aside his breakup for a couple of hours to support them as a good friend would do.

-And Leonard and Penny didn't bitch at Howardette's wedding?, what would've happened if Amy didn't break it up?

[Carlos]

2 hours ago, Tonstar17 said:

There were two tickets. Because Sheldon said it was for him and amy. but when they broke up decided to give it to Lenny but if there was a third ticket not sure where that came from unless it was a throw away line.

I just re-watched it and he never mentions the number of plane tickets and hotel accommodations, but he tells Leonard and Penny "we are going to have so much fun, because there is a lot of stuff to do in San Francisco".  He never mentions in the episode that it was for Amy and him but the only way for the 3 of them to go is to have 3 tickets.

[3ku11]

Lol difference is their bitching was during the ceremony. When Howard and Bernadette still had their moment, and no one hijacked the affair. Throwing in oh Leonard cheated two years ago, and putting their relationship under a bus for what? Howard never cheated, so I don't buy that logic for one second. Then have Sheldon hijack the whole thing. Sorry the whole thing was a complete disaster. Just luckey Lenny have so much depth in their relationship, they sorted it.

[Carlos]

2 hours ago, shamyyyy said:

To me the writing now is both worse and better (shamy stuff aside, that i'm obviously happy for ).

I also don't laugh as much as i used to, but at the same time i like most characters so much more now because of their growth and how they've matured, and that over the years their personalities have become kinda more diversified...

But to me it's like that not just with TBBT but with most of my fav shows - while i think later seasons are less funny (comedies) / sometimes jumped the shark (dramas), i end up not being able to watch earlier seasons for long because the characters in earlier seasons seem kinda 'flat' to me...

I dunno if it's just me!

And that's fine! This is going to sound sort of stupid, but I can only watch as myself. What I mean is that I have my own personal baggage, circumstances, preferences , and that will undoubtedly color the way I perceive things. But you know what the good thing is? As diverse as we are we all have in common watching TBBT and are interested/care about it enough to come here to discuss it. It gets difficult sometimes, I'm telling you, but we hang in there...

1 hour ago, Einstein Von Brainstorm said:

What Leonard did on the North Sea was not only in character but Penny should have also maybe seen it coming? 

Everything you quoted is accurate. I, however, disagree with you . For me what Leonard did in the North Sea was completely OOC. Why? Because he was doing it to Penny? When it comes to Penny, up to that point in the series he had always acted differently. While he might have been in love with Priya, Penny was always the love of his life, and he held himself to a higher standard when it came to her. Also I find it ludicrous that he waited two years to tell her. IMO it is because it took two years for the writers to pull it out of their asses. I know Mekka disagrees with me since he finds it plausible that Leonard waited two years to tell Penny. I don't., but that's just me.

[meka3000]

48 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

-Lol difference is their bitching was during the ceremony.

-Throwing in oh Leonard cheated two years ago, and putting their relationship under a bus for what?

-Sorry the whole thing was a complete disaster. Just luckey Lenny have so much depth in their relationship, they sorted it.

-so was theirs, only difference is one had a mediator.

- their relationship wasn't thrown under the bus.  They were intentionally put through hell in a scenario where most newly weds never want to go through on their wedding night.  But surviving that by realizing most of their fears were self inflicted, gave them greater confidenxe coming out of that they didn't have going in.  You survive that kind of wedding night hell, you can find the courage to face just about anything as newly weds after that.

-yeah those vows were a disaster on their parts.

39 minutes ago, Carlos said:

-When it comes to Penny, up to that point in the series he had always acted differently. While he might have been in love with Priya, Penny was always the love of his life, and he held himself to a higher standard when it came to her.

-Also I find it ludicrous that he waited two years to tell her.

-How does any of that prove that Penny makes Leonard strong enough to resist infidelity in all its possible forms every time? 

-why? he didn't tell his friends about priya until season 4.  So he showed he was capable of keeping secrets for a long amount of time.  I don't see Penny as a special snow flake that makes him strong to avoid mistakes like this all the time.

Edited November 26, 2015 by meka3000

[Tonstar17]

8 minutes ago, Einstein Von Brainstorm said: -So you thought it was ok? [emoji20] 

-Until I read a poster on here complaining that it was the exact same way that she had 'married' Zach and that completely ruined it for me! 

-Yeah.

-I saw it as them replacing the wedding that was a joke in Las Vegas, with the wedding that was for love.  Just another step in erasing that past mistake even more.  But that's just how I viewed it.

31 minutes ago, legacy99 said: -Meka3000 are you saying sheldon doesn't know that when 2 people get married that they want want to go away my themselves.

-Sheldon really can't be that clueless

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-I'm saying that Sheldon cluelessly sees him as a part of Lenny's future sometimes.

-Sure he can, he didn't know what a sex tape was 2 seasons ago.  His brilliant plan for revenge against his girlfriend on christmas was to make her happy.  He cluelessly thought running past a guard at Skywalker Ranch without regards to the consequences was a good idea.  Sheldon for the most part is a social nimrod sometimes.

33 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said: -(Never bought that) not once did he care about their wedding or even put aside his breakup for a couple of hours to support them as a good friend would do.

-And Leonard and Penny didn't bitch at Howardette's wedding?, what would've happened if Amy didn't break it up?

And what's your point. Your now comparing the nutjob to Leonard and Penny even without amys intervention, they would know when to stop. A least lenny were invested in howardette wedding and didnt ruin it compare to Sheldon. I love Leonard and Penny and would stick up for them whenever. No matter how much you try to stick up for Sheldon everything he does has an agenda. True friendship or love should never have a motive against it the kindness should come from the heart without no hidden agenda or excuses. 187 is the clue.

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[brilliantfool]

1 hour ago, Carlos said:

And that's fine! This is going to sound sort of stupid, but I can only watch as myself. What I mean is that I have my own personal baggage, circumstances, preferences , and that will undoubtedly color the way I perceive things. But you know what the good thing is? As diverse as we are we all have in common watching TBBT and are interested/care about it enough to come here to discuss it. It gets difficult sometimes, I'm telling you, but we hang in there...

haha yes , i wasn't implying you should watch/feel the way i do just wanted to share that while i'm kinda with you on 'it's not as funny anymore', that i also enjoy it more in a way now.
Just kinda wanted to get my opinion out there that i kind of 50% agree with those who like later seasons and 50% with those who like earlier seasons x D

And yep i agree ! I'm sometimes wondering if people who comment here they dislike sheldon/shamy/lenny/etc are exaggerating since they're watching anyway. I always say how i dislike Howard/Howardette, while in fact while watching it's not that i feel i strongly dislike them, it's just that i don't like them as much as other characters. I also usually say i'm not a fan of Leonard, cause i generally can't relate to him a lot, while when i'm actually watching the show i realize there are plenty of moments when i really like him.. Even the last 2 episodes, i think he was adorable haha. His moment with Dave in Mystery Date Observation was one of my fav this season! 

Btw missing  your comments in the Shamy thread : D are you not going there anymore cause you disagree the break up was handled well and don't wanna argue since most people there like it?

[meka3000]

1 hour ago, Tonstar17 said:

No matter how much you try to stick up for Sheldon everything he does has an agenda.

To me this just proves your letting your biases against Sheldon overwhelm your judgement of him.  Sheldon doesn't always do everything in his self interest.  How about in the s5 bully episode, where he defended leonard?  What did he have to gain by sticking up for him in that episode?. What about when he kept pennys secret in the s2 premiere, he went to extreme lengths to make his life more difficult.  What about when he didnt rat out leonard for the elevator-rocket fuel fiasco? Or him hugging Leonard in prof. protons death episode.

There are plenty of times where he did things when he didnt have any agenda behind it.

[djsurrey]

4 hours ago, Einstein Von Brainstorm said:

So you thought it was ok?  

First viewing I wondered why they would want a tacky Vegas wedding but then I thought about the whole 'just the two of them' element and it sort of made sense to me, not the wedding many of us would choose but if that works for them then ok.

Until I read a poster on here complaining that it was the exact same way that she had 'married' Zach and that completely ruined it for me! 

With Leonard she knew she was really getting married. With Zack she said she was not aware it was real. 

Not the same.

[ashleyo85]

On 11/23/2015, 6:54:57, jlove said:

Now THAT is an argument worth having.  Miracle Whip tastes like death.  

 

On 11/23/2015, 11:49:28, Carlos said:

Nah-ah! Mayo tastes like crap. Long live Miracle Whip!

 

And I disagree... they're both disgusting LOL

Along with pretty much every other condiment, sauce, or dressing on the planet. Yup I don't like any of them!

[Carlos]

4 hours ago, meka3000 said:

1) Why? he didn't tell his friends about priya until season 4.  So he showed he was capable of keeping secrets for a long amount

of time.

 2)I don't see Penny as a special snow flake that makes him strong to avoid mistakes like this all the time.

1) You are correct, he didn't tell his friends about Priya until S4. We don't know exactly ho long that was because we don't know when she had come to LA the previous . Regardless of that it is not the same keeping secrets from your friends than keeping secrets from the love of your life, is it? The nature of the secret also makes a difference.

2) Funny you should mention snowflakes. As it were he gave Penny a snowflake to signify precisely how special and unique she was to him. Don't think he did that in any other relationship. If that is not enough for you to think Penny is Leonard's special snowflake, I don't know what will. But that's fine you don't see it I do.

3 hours ago, shamyyyy said:

Btw missing  your comments in the Shamy thread : D are you not going there anymore cause you disagree the break up was handled well and don't wanna argue since most people there like it?

Don't worry I understood exactly what you meant. Thank you for noticing that I don't post any more in the Shamy thread. It is precisely because of the reason you stated. The way the reconciliation was written made me completely loose interest in the relationship . As you say I don't want to bring down all the Shamy happiness going on in there. While being a Lenny through and through there are a lot of Shamy posters that I like ( you included, of course), and I feel that if I have something negative to say about Shamy I can do it on other threads.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Carlos

[3ku11]

I think some of the episodes have to stop being so relationship driven. I see that critsism on facebook, too much relationship stuff haha. A Nerdy episode in the next taping can suffice. Get the guys just to play online games or something. I liked the episode the girls got into comic books. I think that was Bakersfield, one of my favourite episodes from the series.

[Mislav]

8 hours ago, Tonstar17 said:

Here the thing if lenny didn't want their friends to see the wedding they wouldn't have sent a link for them to watch it. Here the thing he is supposed to be their best friends. (Never bought that) not once did he care about their wedding or even put aside his breakup for a couple of hours to support them as a good friend would do. He ruined it for everyone else. Nice one. Bringing Leonard's infidelity into the mix to make it not about the pet.

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Maybe because everyone acted like he shouldn't be there even though Amy was and he has known Leonard and Penny longer than Amy? Not to mention the wedding wouldn't have happened (that quickly) if there hadn't been for him?

 

And how does Sheldon's behavior explains Leonard admitting to cheating before the wedding and elaborating on that after? Did Sheldon make him do it?

[Tonstar17]

1 hour ago, Tonstar17 said: No matter how much you try to stick up for Sheldon everything he does has an agenda.

To me this just proves your letting your biases against Sheldon overwhelm your judgement of him.  Sheldon doesn't always do everything in his self interest.  How about in the s5 bully episode, where he defended leonard?  What did he have to gain by sticking up for him in that episode?. What about when he kept pennys secret in the s2 premiere, he went to extreme lengths to make his life more difficult.  What about when he didnt rat out leonard for the elevator-rocket fuel fiasco? Or him hugging Leonard in prof. protons death episode.

There are plenty of times where he did things when he didnt have any agenda behind it.

How about when he ran off and left Leonard alone with Kurt. Always putting down Leonard career even though he know Leonard doesnt like it or when he grassed up all the boys to the HR lady to save his own skin. Manipulating his friends putting down the Lenny relationship not a bit of interest in their wedding. I could go on also. Glad it not real life. Sheldon will have no friends and probably get beating up everyday. Like I said your making excuses for him just like all the Sheldon lovers. What about all the millions of good things Leonard had done for sheldon. His paid him back a billions times over. Has he ever shown any appreciation or even a thank you. Don't think so. he saved his life so what. That horse has been beaten to death. The gang and especially leonard owes Sheldon fuck all. He owes them big time. I will change my mind when I start to see improvement in his behaviour and start treating his friends with respect.

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[djsurrey]

Sounds like you need something. Try this...

 

[Mislav]

30 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

How about when he ran off and left Leonard alone with Kurt. Always putting down Leonard career even though he know Leonard doesnt like it or when he grassed up all the boys to the HR lady to save his own skin. Manipulating his friends putting down the Lenny relationship not a bit of interest in their wedding. I could go on also. Glad it not real life. Sheldon will have no friends and probably get beating up everyday. Like I said your making excuses for him just like all the Sheldon lovers. What about all the millions of good things Leonard had done for sheldon. His paid him back a billions times over. Has he ever shown any appreciation or even a thank you. Don't think so. he saved his life so what. That horse has been beaten to death. The gang and especially leonard owes Sheldon fuck all. He owes them big time. I will change my mind when I start to see improvement in his behaviour and start treating his friends with respect.

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All the guys left Leonard alone with Kurt. Sheldon was the only one who actually admired Leonard's courage to stand up to Kurt. Lenny doesn't show much interest or maturity regarding Shamy or any other relationship on the show either. And I think there is more to that than saving Leonard's life. Providing hot beverage when his friends are feeling down, borrowing Penny money without even caring about her giving it back, providing Raj with a job (even though the situation he had ended up in had been his [Raj's] fault for the big part), driving Penny to the hospital and taking care of Amy for weeks despite his fear of germs and dislike of his schedule being disrupted, asking Penny not to hurt his friend after finding out she had been planning to break up with Leonard, comforting Howard after Emily had made fun of him and after mrs. Wolowitz's death. Calling Penny out on her disrespect in  "The Nerdvana Annihilation". Chasing away a frikking North Korean spy before Leonard was able to reveal a confidential information to her. But whatever.

[jenafan]

11 hours ago, Carlos said:

<snip>

 Perhaps it is also that as seasons progress you (the viewer) start having built in expectations and react negatively if they are not met.  I said perhaps because I haven't analyzed my statement deeply enough to ascertain it with 100% confidence. Also, I think one of the factors for me is the strain of repetition: something that was funny some years ago is no longer funny or acceptable now.  Each viewer is a universe unto him/herself and we are all "guilty" of watching with our own bias, so...

Your words here are so true.

We become so vested in certain storylines and in the characters that when they don't act in the way they expect, we begin to lose interest or find a lot less to laugh about.   The Lenny cheating and Shamy break up are two examples of how the writers rocked everyone's world by throwing something in the mix that no one expected.   The show has become less about science, careers, and goofing off as friends and more about drama and the relationships.   It's reasonable to conclude why some viewers who enjoyed the show for the former have lost interest and died off.  

I have come to the consensus that there are more male Lenny shippers than Shamy shippers while there are more female Shamy shippers than Lenny shippers.    It seems that as Lenny continue to fade into the background behind Shamy, the male viewership has become more disappointed in the show.   However, the Shamy development has female viewership coming out in droves.

It seems plausible to conclude that the writers may be attempting to appeal to the higher probability of increased viewership this Season by catering to the larger population of fans who are intrigued and/or favor Shamy.  They seem to be willing to sacrifice quality in the Lenny storyline to make this happen.

You noticed, I used the word seem.   I am of the opinion, that outside of the wedding and lack of honeymoon, that Lenny have had some of their best moments together this Season.   The naughty carrot was the best I have ever seen in Leonard and reminded me why he and Penny really are the perfect match for each other.   However, this seems to go unnoticed because of the frustration from fans over all the Shamy attention and that after eight years, Shamy's initial sex scene appears as if it may actually outshine Lenny's wedding or any intimate scene they have ever had together on screen.    This is even more shocking given how disfunctionally one-sided Shamy's relationship has been compared to the (8) years of mutual trials and triumphs Lenny have been through.

To me the writer's have done a bit of a disservice to Lenny, and once again made Sheldon's issues the forefront and focus of the show.   So, for those who are calling TBBT the Sheldon show, I get it.

For those who have tuned in from the beginning, all of this has become a travesty to the original premise of the show.   For the ones that have joined the show since the relationships were introduced, the show is heading in the direction it is supposed to by allowing these characters to experience the hardships and joys that go into them.   We all expect a happy ending for our favorite ships, and when we don't get it, our biases come into play and then we start attacking each other, comparing ships, putting the blame on bad writing, etc.

Personally, I am extremely happy with the direction the show has taken for my own personal tastes, biases, etc.   However, that does not mean I'm going to overlook the right of others not to feel the same way and want to vent about it because of their own personal tastes, biases, etc.  

The key is to keep our opinions, disappointments, and arguments directed toward the show and its characters, and not at each other.  I've seen a lot of personal attacks between members on this thread, and it is disconcerting that some are not willing to give others the respect that they themselves feel they want and deserve by using self-control and/or refraining from nit-picking.

Where's the harm in being open-minded to others' opinions that rest on grounds insufficient to produce a complete certainty?  That doesn't mean one is bound to sway from his/her our own POVs or cannot continue to defend them, but it will make the discussions more fruitful if one considers that opinions are neither right nor wrong.  So to argue with an individual for having one is pointless.    

For me, in regards to TBBT,  I see opposing arguments as a means to see if perhaps I need to widen my view or consider looking at a matter from a different angle.   I think it makes me more well-rounded to accept that I don't have the market corner on answers for my personal biases, particularly in regards to my views on Sheldon, and that perhaps the ones I have formed could stand to be tweaked a bit.    That tweaking could very well effect how much more or less I enjoy the show.

I appreciated your post because it is states a reality that is readily apparent on this thread.

Edited November 26, 2015 by jenafan