[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9

[djsurrey]

Leonard and Penny have always had a stormy relationship. A bit of drama is the only way fans are going to get the make up scenes that some of you seem to like.

Back to 5.13

Leonard: No, I mean just you and me.

Amy: Ooh!

Bernadette: Ooh!

Penny: Uh, have you thought this through?

Leonard: Yes, and I think we should go anyway.

[3ku11]

Leonard and Penny have always had a stormy relationship. A bit of drama is the only way fans are going to get the make up scenes that some of you seem to like.

Back to 5.13

your not a shipper are you ha. Not always stormy wasent first two seasons. Since they became official, relationship hit a certain lvl it did. 

[Tonstar17]

Leonard and Penny have always had a stormy relationship. A bit of drama is the only way fans are going to get the make up scenes that some of you seem to like.

Back to 5.13

They have being there, done that, got the t shirt. Yeah lenny has moved away from that. They didn't need the drama. He put a ring on it. But that didn't mean shit as far as the writers were concerned. Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[Tonstar17]

I agree. However as I said before, I'm not surprised. I expect that after the kiss crisis is over that the PTB will demote Lenny back to the position they had last season so they can push the Shamy relationship. I hope I'm wrong. BTW Watch as Shamy eventually has a big wedding.

Well the writers have said how passionate they are of Shamy their cash cow. Not the same passion as lenny. It's like. do we really have to write about lenny? We just make something up as we write about sheldon and shamy. :) Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[Nogravitasatall]

They are a mis-matched couple. They won't be harmonious. The other two are the better match.But I like the mis-match. They will get there in the end. Bloodied and beaten, but together. I hope.

 

[Tonstar17]

They are a mis-matched couple. They won't be harmonious. The other two are the better match.But I like the mis-match. They will get there in the end. Bloodied and beaten, but together. I hope.

 

I really want to believe but my faith is fading fast. Sorry Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[djsurrey]

I really want to believe but my faith is fading fast. Sorry Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

The highs aren't so high without the lows.

Personally I'd rather be the brand muffin but Leonard wants to be something spicy.

[fitzsimmons]

Okay. I promised an in-depth analysis of how I feel about the taping and here it is. I do want to cover both Shamy and Lenny, but I'm going to start with Shamy and then drive home from work and start typing up my Lenny thoughts, but I wanted to get at least this much posted so as not to deluge with too much long-winded opining at once. I haven't read much (or really any) of the commentary here because there's so much of it, so I'm not sure how people already feel about it, so here's my opinion. And obviously this opinion is mine and not everyone will share it when they see the episode, but please do keep an open mind; if you're angry right now, wait and see the episode before you start burning things to the ground. It may play out differently than it reads. You may watch it and say, "Yep, I was right, this is shit." And that's fine. You're entitled to that. But there's no point in being upset and angry for a month before the episode even airs. Don't do that to yourself; you deserve better. We're not all going to agree, and some will love it and some will hate it and some will say, "I wonder if my fucks will come home from the war?" But before you set the village on fire, please allow yourself to see it for yourself and make your own opinion.

But here's why I spent the whole taping saying, "This is the best day of my life."

I enjoy conflict. I really enjoy conflict. I find it realistic and human and natural and most importantly, necessary. A couple who doesn't tussle is a couple who doesn't progress, at least in my opinion. You need conflict to move the story forward. Even in comedy, that's the cornerstone of storytelling. Every episode there's a conflict, and by the end of the episode, it's resolved. This happens to be a longer conflict that stretches more than one episode. Which means we have a multitude of opportunities to continuously push the story forward. Every episode that Sheldon and Amy are broken up is an episode that progresses them forward. Because there's no point in breaking them up if you're not going to do anything with it, if you're not going to utilize the story potential there.

I truly feel bad for both of them. Amy is devastated by what she did because she's loved Sheldon for so long, she doesn't want to see him in pain, and she doesn't want to be in pain herself. But she can't reconcile that with how flippant he is with her at times, or how he appears to not care about her as much as she does about him. She gives him the moon and he gives her an eye roll. So she just asked him for some time to think. Most of the episode is spent with the audience not really sure if it's a break up or not. Sheldon keeps calling it one, but Amy keeps saying all she wanted was some time to think and he's not given her that yet.

And for Sheldon, this is the first time we've really seen his confidence rattled. We saw glimpses of it in Zazzy Substitution and Flaming Spittoon, but that was different. This time, he had something and he lost it because of his own actions. The episode opens with Sheldon calling Leonard and frantically telling him not to get married because "women are the worst" and how he "thought paper cuts were the worst, but no paper cut me this deep." That really says something to me because here's what Sheldon just said: this is the most pain he's ever felt in his life. Up until now, he thought paper cuts were the most pain he could feel but now he's had something worse happen to him. He lost Amy. That says novels to me about what she means to him and how much the last five years has affected him. He hasn't noticed it or appreciated it until now because it's been happening so slowly. But this is something major in his life that he's now without and he doesn't know how to handle it. He's lost, he's confused, he's scared, and it's making him angry. He's a brilliant man, he's almost never had a problem he can't solve. And now he has, and this one really matters to him. And yes, it's comedic, but it's also a very real pain that he's feeling.

The rest of the scene plays out to Sheldon snapping to attention every time he hears Amy's name. "Why did I just hear her name? Did she ask about me?" And then when he overhears Penny tell Leonard, "Amy's upset," Sheldon demands to know, "Why is she upset? Is it about me? I don't care. Well if you care, you can find out and tell me, but don't be surprised when I don't care." It's funny because he's so obviously lying, but I also love it because it proves how much he still cares and loves her. And then Leonard explains that she's upset because they're eloping and now Sheldon's all about them going through with it because he wants to hurt her. He's like a five year old stomping his feet in the dirt at the playground because someone took his favorite swing. He doesn't actually want to inflict pain on Amy. He just wants to know that she's just as upset about the breakup as he is. Because if she's hurting, then it means she hasn't moved on and he still has time and a chance of winning her back.

And then he shows up at her apartment. He didn't waste any time. She broke it off with him last night. It's 11 hours later. He didn't waste any more time before trying to get her back. I love that. I love that he cares enough to make bold moves like this. It's the first time since Flaming Spittoon that we've really seen him take charge and go after her. He thinks eleven hours is enough time, because he remembers her categorizing 11 hours of Lord of the Rings as an eternity. Which, again, is a joke for the audience but it also shows how much he remembers about her. He wasn't trying to invade her space right away after she asked for some time. He truly felt like, "this is what an eternity feels like to her, so I have waited that out." He's surprised to see she doesn't feel that way. He notices she was leaving somewhere and asks to walk her out, and she says yes. Which I also loved because it means she's not really angry at him, not to the point of wanting to cut him out of her life entirely. Even though she wants time and space to think, she's happy to walk out with him. She could have shut him down and said, "No, you need to leave me alone," but she says yes. He either mistakes that as reconciliation or he's playing on the double entendre of "going out" when he says he's glad they're going out again, but she turns right back around and clarifies that they're not and that she still hasn't been given time.

And then he's even more distraught to learn that she's going to watch the wedding with their friends and that he wasn't invited. He doesn't understand that when couples break up, it's awkward for them and everyone else to be around them, and Amy has to explain this. The concept of a break up and the social conventions around it is all alien to Sheldon, and he's having a hard time navigating it. And as painful as it is, it's also really fun and interesting to watch him come up against those walls and try to break them down with his usual aggressive lack of grace. He storms after her shouting, "We make everyone uncomfortable, that's our thing!" Because he truly doesn't know why this social division is necessary.

Which is only all the more evident when he shows up at the Wolowitz residence and watches from the window. He's still trying to listen to what Amy's saying; "She said it would make everyone uncomfortable if I came in," but he wants to watch the wedding so he's just staring through the window. It's still uncomfortable, which is the point, but Sheldon's having a hard time getting that. He's really trying to listen to Amy and still do what she's asking but he doesn't know how to reconcile that with his own desire to see his friends marry, and to be with his friends, including Amy.

In the next scene, their friends are getting married on the screen right before their eyes and Sheldon still can't stop talking about Amy and their relationship. He wants to make sure Raj knows what happened because he still can't believe it himself. It's weird to him to be sitting in a room with Amy and not be next to her. This is the first time in five years of knowing her that this has happened. And it's not sitting well with him. He's a man of tradition and consistency. And this disrupts all the order in his life. It's chaos to him. Even though everyone else seems okay with it, he's not. And he doesn't know how to not talk about it. And Amy is frustrated because he's making this worse for her. She just needed some time away from him, and he's not letting her have that.

He finally confronts her in the middle of the vow exchange, "Are we broken up or not? It's like you can't make up your mind." And she finally explains that she asked for time and he's not giving it to her. And that's when he goes on autopilot. What does Sheldon do? Make completely inappropriate jokes that he can't see for how problematic they are. "Well you better think fast because men can have children whenever they want but your eggs have an expiration date." (Not the exact quote, but I can't remember how he worded it.) Amy stands up and says he's making it really easy. "You're immature, you're selfish, and you just insulted me to my face. We're broken up." She storms off into the kitchen, Bernie chases her, and Sheldon's immediate instinct is to spring to his feet. He's almost going to run after her. But then the gravity of the situation hits him and he asks for someone to take him home, and Raj volunteers.

That's really all we get on their storyline until he brings Penny tea. To cheer her up? Probably. But he also wants to do a little dirty digging about his relationship with Amy. He finds out that Amy had been thinking about this for a while and Penny gave her advice: to be true to herself and do what makes her happy. Sheldon is starting to wonder why breaking up with him is what makes her happy. And this really hits him when Penny says it's not her fault if Amy thought he was a bad boyfriend. And now he doesn't have to wonder anymore. Now he knows. He didn’t try hard enough (or at least that's Amy's impression) and he didn't do his part. He didn't hold up his end of the relationship in a way that made her happy. Whether or not this is objectively true is irrelevant. This is Sheldon's impression; this is how he feels.

And so then in the tag scene, we see Sheldon trying to cheer Leonard (and himself) up by listing all the reasons why men are better than women. He's just doing it to make himself feel better. If you can convince yourself that women suck, then you feel better about yourself. Leonard is man enough to admit that he's the one that screwed up, but Sheldon still can't . His lashing out at Amy and all women is a defense mechanism. He's in pain and so he thinks, "Well, it can't possibly be my fault; it must be hers!" He's completely irrational right now, but it's because he's never dealt with anything like this before. Is he angry, is he hurt, is he sad, is he guilty? He's all those things but he doesn't know how to recognize them because he's never felt them like this before, so he relegates to his default mode: haughty and self-righteous and bitter with the world. He's lashing out to mask his true pain, but he can only keep that up for so long before it'll catch up to him.

Not everyone will be happy with this episode, or the trajectory of this storyline. Some fans want sunshine and rainbows. This ain't that. I would argue they've never been about that, but that's my opinion. These are real people with real issues. Amy's been  through the emotional ringer and she's finally taking a stand, and I couldn't be happier or prouder. She doesn't like how Sheldon talks to her and she said so. It's the first time anyone's ever really said to him, "That was shitty and you can't treat me like that," and he's finally starting to get it. He's never had anyone stand up to him like this before, so he doesn't know how to react. He's lashing out like she's being unreasonable, but I think with time he'll realize that she's right. He may already realize it, and part of what we're seeing is Sheldon being mad at himself. Deep down, he knows he didn't treat her the best he could. He knows she's justified in her pain and her anger. He knows he could have done better by her. And he's angry at himself for that. He holds himself to a higher standard. He spent a lot of time bragging about how his relationship with Amy was superior and here he was, dumped, and being told he was a bad boyfriend.

Ultimately, here's why I'm excited about this: it means so much in the pipeline for Shamy. So many good storylines can come out of this. There is so much material here and I hope the writers mine it for all it's worth. This is the kind of things that makes bonds stronger. You break people down to their lowest point and build them back up stronger than before and they're resilient. They thrive. You need to see people at their worst to see them at their best. Shamy sort of hit a ceiling with their relationship, but this is breaking all of that down and giving them more room to grow. There's so much to do with them now, and it'll all be tragic and wonderful and funny and interesting and sad and brilliant. And this is going to be the best way for us to really see Sheldon's true emotions. He's always been expert at keeping them a complete secret so no one ever knows how he's truly feeling. But this is bringing everything right to the surface for us all to finally see and clear that mystery right up.

As I told the girls, I think Sheldon will go through the five stages of grief. Right now he's in denial. He's in denial about his wrongdoing, denial about the relationship being over. And then we also saw a little bit of anger. I wager we haven't seen the end of it. Soon we'll see him bargaining, pleading with Amy (I swear to god, if he shows up at her door and tries to offer her everything he thinks she wanted and she slams the door in his face, I will weep with joy). "If I do this, will you take me back?" And then she can explain that it doesn't work like that. He can't just buy her a tiara and move on; they're more complex than that now. We're going to see an awful lot of depression, from both of them. And then I think we'll finally see acceptance – but not acceptance with the breakup. Acceptance with Amy's terms. Acceptance for how Sheldon fucked up and what he needs to do now to make it up to her. That's what it's going to take before these two can get back together.

And then I'm ready to see all of that happen.

Edited August 17, 2015 by MichyGeary

[Carlos]

No I dont think thats cheating but the fact is that Bernie dumped Howard over this. I forgot what exactly the conversation was about though.

Oh, OK, but the poster said two cheaters, so...and Howard is NOT a cheater. I believe that those were the very early stages of Howardette, so...

[hokie3457]

Michy, what a magnificent and cogent analysis! Thank you for that wonderful essay! (From a Leonard/Penny shipper and an Amy fan!!!)

[keie]

Bernadette considered it cheating.....so by her standards in her relationship with Howard it was cheating.

[Maddie]

Omg. Michy I freakin love you. I legit teared up reading that post. You so eloquently voiced all my thoughts on the situation. Thank you for your insight!

[Ranger Rosa]

Thank God I've read Michy's comment. I feel better every time I read a reasonable/eloquent comment like this. And I know that all Shamies including me will be freaking out at the end of this process, freaking out of happiness. It will be so good.  

[Ginny Hamilton]

Okay. I promised an in-depth analysis of how I feel about the taping and here it is. I do want to cover both Shamy and Lenny, but I'm going to start with Shamy and then drive home from work and start typing up my Lenny thoughts, but I wanted to get at least this much posted so as not to deluge with too much long-winded opining at once. I haven't read much (or really any) of the commentary here because there's so much of it, so I'm not sure how people already feel about it, so here's my opinion. And obviously this opinion is mine and not everyone will share it when they see the episode, but please do keep an open mind; if you're angry right now, wait and see the episode before you start burning things to the ground. It may play out differently than it reads. You may watch it and say, "Yep, I was right, this is shit." And that's fine. You're entitled to that. But there's no point in being upset and angry for a month before the episode even airs. Don't do that to yourself; you deserve better. We're not all going to agree, and some will love it and some will hate it and some will say, "I wonder if my fucks will come home from the war?" But before you set the village on fire, please allow yourself to see it for yourself and make your own opinion.

But here's why I spent the whole taping saying, "This is the best day of my life."

I enjoy conflict. I really enjoy conflict. I find it realistic and human and natural and most importantly, necessary. A couple who doesn't tussle is a couple who doesn't progress, at least in my opinion. You need conflict to move the story forward. Even in comedy, that's the cornerstone of storytelling. Every episode there's a conflict, and by the end of the episode, it's resolved. This happens to be a longer conflict that stretches more than one episode. Which means we have a multitude of opportunities to continuously push the story forward. Every episode that Sheldon and Amy are broken up is an episode that progresses them forward. Because there's no point in breaking them up if you're not going to do anything with it, if you're not going to utilize the story potential there.

I truly feel bad for both of them. Amy is devastated by what she did because she's love Sheldon for so long, she doesn't want to see him in pain, and she doesn't want to be in pain herself. But she can't reconcile that with how flippant he is with her at times, or how he appears to not care about her as much as she does about him. She gives him the moon and he gives her an eye roll. So she just asked him for some time to think. Most of the episode is spent with the audience not really sure if it's a break up or not. Sheldon keeps calling it one, but Amy keeps saying all she wanted was some time to think and he's not given her that yet.

And for Sheldon, this is the first time we've really seen his confidence rattled. We saw glimpses of it in Zazzy Substitution and Flaming Spittoon, but that was different. This time, he had something and he lost it because of his own actions. The episode opens with Sheldon calling Leonard and frantically telling him not to get married because "women are the worst" and how he "thought paper cuts were the worst, but no paper cut me this deep." That really says something to me because here's what Sheldon just said: this is the most pain he's ever felt in his life. Up until now, he thought paper cuts were the most pain he could feel but now he's had something worse happen to him. He lost Amy. That says novels to me about what she means to him and how much the last five years has affected him. He hasn't noticed it or appreciated it until now because it's been happening so slowly. But this is something major in his life that he's now without and he doesn't know how to handle it. He's lost, he's confused, he's scared, and it's making him angry. He's a brilliant man, he's almost never had a problem he can't solve. And now he has, and this one really matters to him. And yes, it's comedic, but it's also a very real pain that he's feeling.

The rest of the scene plays out to Sheldon snapping to attention every time he hears Amy's name. "Why did I just hear her name? Did she ask about me?" And then when he overhears Penny tell Leonard, "Amy's upset," Sheldon demands to know, "Why is she upset? Is it about me? I don't care. Well if you care, you can find out and tell me, but don't be surprised when I don't care." It's funny because he's so obviously lying, but I also love it because it proves how much he still cares and loves her. And then Leonard explains that she's upset because they're eloping and now Sheldon's all about them going through with it because he wants to hurt her. He's like a five year old stomping his feet in the dirt at the playground because someone took his favorite swing. He doesn't actually want to inflict pain on Amy. He just wants to know that she's just as upset about the breakup as he is. Because if she's hurting, then it means she hasn't moved on and he still has time and a chance of winning her back.

And then he shows up at her apartment. He didn't waste any time. She broke it off with him last night. It's 11 hours later. He didn't waste any more time before trying to get her back. I love that. I love that he cares enough to make bold moves like this. It's the first time since Flaming Spittoon that we've really seen him take charge and go after her. He thinks eleven hours is enough time, because he remembers her categorizing 11 hours of Lord of the Rings as an eternity. Which, again, is a joke for the audience but it also shows how much he remembers about her. He wasn't trying to invade her space right away after she asked for some time. He truly felt like, "this is what an eternity feels like to her, so I have waited that out." He's surprised to see she doesn't feel that way. He notices she was leaving somewhere and asks to walk her out, and she says yes. Which I also loved because it means she's not really angry at him, not to the point of wanting to cut him out of her life entirely. Even though she wants time and space to think, she's happy to walk out with him. She could have shut him down and said, "No, you need to leave me alone," but she says yes. He either mistakes that as reconciliation or he's playing on the double entendre of "going out" when he says he's glad they're going out again, but she turns right back around and clarifies that they're not and that she still hasn't been given time.

And then he's even more distraught to learn that she's going to watch the wedding with their friends and that he wasn't invited. He doesn't understand that when couples break up, it's awkward for them and everyone else to be around them, and Amy has to explain this. The concept of a break up and the social conventions around it is all alien to Sheldon, and he's having a hard time navigating it. And as painful as it is, it's also really fun and interesting to watch him come up against those walls and try to break them down with his usual aggressive lack of grace. He storms after her shouting, "We make everyone uncomfortable, that's our thing!" Because he truly doesn't know why this social division is necessary.

Which is only all the more evident when he shows up at the Wolowitz residence and watches from the window. He's still trying to listen to what Amy's saying; "She said it would make everyone uncomfortable if I came in," but he wants to watch the wedding so he's just staring through the window. It's still uncomfortable, which is the point, but Sheldon's having a hard time getting that. He's really trying to listen to Amy and still do what she's asking but he doesn't know how to reconcile that with his own desire to see his friends marry, and to be with his friends, including Amy.

In the next scene, their friends are getting married on the screen right before their eyes and Sheldon still can't stop talking about Amy and their relationship. He wants to make sure Raj knows what happened because he still can't believe it himself. It's weird to him to be sitting in a room with Amy and not be next to her. This is the first time in five years of knowing her that this has happened. And it's not sitting well with him. He's a man of tradition and consistency. And this disrupts all the order in his life. It's chaos to him. Even though everyone else seems okay with it, he's not. And he doesn't know how to not talk about it. And Amy is frustrated because he's making this worse for her. She just needed some time away from him, and he's not letting her have that.

He finally confronts her in the middle of the vow exchange, "Are we broken up or not? It's like you can't make up your mind." And she finally explains that she asked for time and he's not giving it to her. And that's when he goes on autopilot. What does Sheldon do? Make completely inappropriate jokes that he can't see for how problematic they are. "Well you better think fast because men can have children whenever they want but your eggs have an expiration date." (Not the exact quote, but I can't remember how he worded it.) Amy stands up and says he's making it really easy. "You're immature, you're selfish, and you just insulted me to my face. We're broken up." She storms off into the kitchen, Bernie chases her, and Sheldon's immediate instinct is to spring to his feet. He's almost going to run after her. But then the gravity of the situation hits him and he asks for someone to take him home, and Raj volunteers.

That's really all we get on their storyline until he brings Penny tea. To cheer her up? Probably. But he also wants to do a little dirty digging about his relationship with Amy. He finds out that Amy had been thinking about this for a while and Penny gave her advice: to be true to herself and do what makes her happy. Sheldon is starting to wonder why breaking up with him is what makes her happy. And this really hits him when Penny says it's not her fault if Amy thought he was a bad boyfriend. And now he doesn't have to wonder anymore. Now he knows. He didn’t try hard enough (or at least that's Amy's impression) and he didn't do his part. He didn't hold up his end of the relationship in a way that made her happy. Whether or not this is objectively true is irrelevant. This is Sheldon's impression; this is how he feels.

And so then in the tag scene, we see Sheldon trying to cheer Leonard (and himself) up by listing all the reasons why men are better than women. He's just doing it to make himself feel better. If you can convince yourself that women suck, then you feel better about yourself. Leonard is man enough to admit that he's the one that screwed up, but Sheldon still can't . His lashing out at Amy and all women is a defense mechanism. He's in pain and so he thinks, "Well, it can't possibly be my fault; it must be hers!" He's completely irrational right now, but it's because he's never dealt with anything like this before. Is he angry, is he hurt, is he sad, is he guilty? He's all those things but he doesn't know how to recognize them because he's never felt them like this before, so he relegates to his default mode: haughty and self-righteous and bitter with the world. He's lashing out to mask his true pain, but he can only keep that up for so long before it'll catch up to him.

Not everyone will be happy with this episode, or the trajectory of this storyline. Some fans want sunshine and rainbows. This ain't that. I would argue they've never been about that, but that's my opinion. These are real people with real issues. Amy's been  through the emotional ringer and she's finally taking a stand, and I couldn't be happier or prouder. She doesn't like how Sheldon talks to her and she said so. It's the first time anyone's ever really said to him, "That was shitty and you can't treat me like that," and he's finally starting to get it. He's never had anyone stand up to him like this before, so he doesn't know how to react. He's lashing out like she's being unreasonable, but I think with time he'll realize that she's right. He may already realize it, and part of what we're seeing is Sheldon being mad at himself. Deep down, he knows he didn't treat her the best he could. He knows she's justified in her pain and her anger. He knows he could have done better by her. And he's angry at himself for that. He holds himself to a higher standard. He spent a lot of time bragging about how his relationship with Amy was superior and here he was, dumped, and being told he was a bad boyfriend.

Ultimately, here's why I'm excited about this: it means so much in the pipeline for Shamy. So many good storylines can come out of this. There is so much material here and I hope the writers mine it for all it's worth. This is the kind of things that makes bonds stronger. You break people down to their lowest point and build them back up stronger than before and they're resilient. They thrive. You need to see people at their worst to see them at their best. Shamy sort of hit a ceiling with their relationship, but this is breaking all of that down and giving them more room to grow. There's so much to do with them now, and it'll all be tragic and wonderful and funny and interesting and sad and brilliant. And this is going to be the best way for us to really see Sheldon's true emotions. He's always been expert at keeping them a complete secret so no one ever knows how he's truly feeling. But this is bringing everything right to the surface for us all to finally see and clear that mystery right up.

As I told the girls, I think Sheldon go through the five stages of grief. Right now he's in denial. He's in denial about his wrongdoing, denial about the relationship being over. And then we also saw a little bit of anger. I wager we haven't seen the end of it. Soon we'll see him bargaining, pleading with Amy (I swear to god, if he shows up at her door and tries to offer her everything he thinks she wanted and she slams the door in his face, I will weep with joy). "If I do this, will you take me back?" And then she can explain that it doesn't work like that. He can't just buy her a tiara and move on; they're more complex than that now. We're going to see an awful lot of depression, from both of them. And then I think we'll finally see acceptance – but not acceptance with the breakup. Acceptance with Amy's terms. Acceptance for how Sheldon fucked up and what he needs to do now to make it up to her. That's what it's going to take before these two can get back together.

And then I'm ready to see all of that happen.

My goodness.  This old, retired English teacher can only say thank you for this cogent analysis, this wise interpretation of this people, whom we care so much.  You are quite a wonder, and I bow to you.

 

[nickelette424]

I'm sorry.   I am  all  for  growth and lord knows  Sheldon has  some growing up to do.   But I just  don't buy this notion that he totally fucked up and this is all his fault.   I didn't want sunshine and rainbows,  but I don't subscribe to this notion that Sheldon needs to be completely broke down and beat down here.   Amy is not some saint that it is the perfect girlfriend and they need to settle this and come to an agreement of mutual terms,  not Amy's terms and not Sheldon's terms. 

 

I wanted to add, Michy's description of the episode was pretty spot on as always.  I just hate this idea that Sheldon was/is so horrible,  especially after a season where he was a pretty damn good boyfriend, in my opinion.   I feel like the guy keeps having the goal posts moved on him and unless he turns into something he's not, he's never gonna be enough. 

Edited August 13, 2015 by nickelette424

[meka3000]

I don't care anymore. I'm done 

Then why are you still here commenting on the show?

 

[fitzsimmons]

I'm sorry.   I am  all  for  growth and lord knows  Sheldon has  some growing up to do.   But I just  don't buy this notion that he totally fucked up and this is all his fault.   I didn't want sunshine and rainbows,  but I don't subscribe to this notion that Sheldon needs to be completely broke down and beat down here.   Amy is not some saint that it is the perfect girlfriend and they need to settle this and come to an agreement of mutual terms,  not Amy's terms and not Sheldon's terms. 

 

I wanted to add, Michy's description of the episode was pretty spot on as always.  I just hate this idea that Sheldon was/is so horrible,  especially after a season where he was a pretty damn good boyfriend, in my opinion.   I feel like the guy keeps having the goal posts moved on him and unless he turns into something he's not, he's never gonna be enough. 

Sheldon wasn't horrible, and I don't think anyone on the show (or here on the forum) is saying that. But he wasn't always attentive to Amy (wanting to play Star Wars games instead of honoring an obligation to her, talking about his Twitter followers when she had exciting news about her career, wanting to talk about The Flash during their date night/making out, etc) and that's not something that was brought to his attention. Now it has, and that's a good thing. He needs to be aware that he can be a bit brutal sometimes, even if he's not intending it or it's not his fault. He doesn't want to accidentally hurt any of his friends or Amy any more than they want to be hurt by him. So for him to know that his actions have upset her is a good thing. And that's not to say he was all bad. He was also wonderful in a lot of other ways, which is why Amy loves him. She still does, she said it herself in the finale. She's just asking for a bit of breathing room, and no one is saying that Sheldon royally fucked up. But if that's how he's feeling, I take that as a good sign. It means he doesn't feel well about the pain Amy is in, and it means he wants to do better.

And the other thing I'd like to point out is that Sheldon is not the only one broken down here. Amy is too. She's devastated. Just because she did the breaking up doesn't mean she doesn't feel any pain. That was the point I was trying to make. It's going to be interesting to see them both broken down and build their way back up. It's not just Sheldon who's hurting. The show often shows us everything from his perspective, but let's not forget that Amy has one, too.

Edited August 13, 2015 by MichyGeary

[3ku11]

Then why are you still here commenting on the show?

 

mate he's entitled to not like where the direction of where the shows heading. Doe sent make one any less of a fan, seems your trying to tell ppl how to feel. 

Edited August 13, 2015 by 3ku11

[Ranger Rosa]

Sheldon wasn't horrible, and I don't think anyone on the show (or here on the forum) is saying that. But he wasn't always attentive to Amy (wanting to play Star Wars games instead of honoring an obligation to her, talking about his Twitter followers when she had exciting news about her career, wanting to talk about The Flash during their date night/making out, etc) and that's not something that was brought to his attention. Now it has, and that's a good thing. He needs to be aware that he can be a bit brutal sometimes, even if he's not intending it or it's not his fault. He doesn't want to accidentally hurt any of his friends or Amy any more than they want to be hurt by him. So for him to know that his actions have upset her is a good thing. And that's not to say he was all bad. He was also wonderful in a lot of other ways, which is why Amy loves him. She still does, she said it herself in the finale. She's just asking for a bit of breathing room, and no one is saying that Sheldon royally fucked up. But if that's how he's feeling, I take that as a good sign. It means he doesn't feel well about the pain Amy is in, and it means he wants to do better.

And the other thing I'd like to point out is that Sheldon is not the only one broken down here. Amy is too. She's devastated. Just because she did the breaking up doesn't mean she doesn't feel any pain. That was the point I was trying to make. It's going to be interesting to see them both broken down and build their way back up. It's not just Sheldon who's hurting. The show often shows us everything from his perspective, but let's not forget that Amy has one, too.

I'm gonna ask this to you 'cause you seem to be more able to answer that, since you've been on previous tapings and I'm didn't: how many episodes do you think they'll keep apart? 

[Tensor]

mate he's entitled to not like where the direction of where the shows heading. Doe sent make one any less of a fan, seems your trying to tell ppl how to feel. 

 Careful skull, he'll be telling you how to feel next.  

Edited August 13, 2015 by Tensor

[Nogravitasatall]

There's a joke about a mule and a 2x4 and getting the mules attention,. PETA wouldnt like it, but it was of its time

[meka3000]

mate he's entitled to not like where the direction of where the shows heading. Doe sent make one any less of a fan, seems your trying to tell ppl how to feel.

For a fan to say "that's it, I'm done." But minutes later the person is still commenting on the show.  Its hard to take that said persons word seriously.  It just reminds me of my brothers half assed promises where he would say "I'm never going to get drunk again." 1 day later, he was drunk, and his word rang hollow.

Its similar to that Imo.

Of course if he wants to say that, more power to him, for some its hard to take those peoples words seriously when they obviously contradict themselves.

Edited August 13, 2015 by meka3000
Fixing quotations

[nickelette424]

Sheldon wasn't horrible, and I don't think anyone on the show (or here on the forum) is saying that. But he wasn't always attentive to Amy (wanting to play Star Wars games instead of honoring an obligation to her, talking about his Twitter followers when she had exciting news about her career, wanting to talk about The Flash during their date night/making out, etc) and that's not something that was brought to his attention. Now it has, and that's a good thing. He needs to be aware that he can be a bit brutal sometimes, even if he's not intending it or it's not his fault. He doesn't want to accidentally hurt any of his friends or Amy any more than they want to be hurt by him. So for him to know that his actions have upset her is a good thing. And that's not to say he was all bad. He was also wonderful in a lot of other ways, which is why Amy loves him. She still does, she said it herself in the finale. She's just asking for a bit of breathing room, and no one is saying that Sheldon royally fucked up. But if that's how he's feeling, I take that as a good sign. It means he doesn't feel well about the pain Amy is in, and it means he wants to do better.

And the other thing I'd like to point out is that Sheldon is not the only one broken down here. Amy is too. She's devastated. Just because she did the breaking up doesn't mean she doesn't feel any pain. That was the point I was trying to make. It's going to be interesting to see them both broken down and build their way back up. It's not just Sheldon who's hurting. The show often shows us everything from his perspective, but let's not forget that Amy has one, too.

I guess I just keep seeing how Sheldon needs to do this,  and Sheldon needs to do that.  And comments that they are glad that she dumped him because he's x,y,z.  Whether or not I understand why Amy snapped in the premier doesn't make me happy or glad that either of them are going through this. I think they both have work to do because they are both wrong and both right at the same time.  

I don't think that this episode alone is damaging, but I think the writers need to be careful.   How they approach things from here can make or break this couple, even if we all agree they are endgame no matter what. 

[agt_1]

According to the taping report Lenny got married then fought again after  I can't see Penny or Leonard wanting to end the marriage no matter how angry they are with each other and I think the writers have crossed a bridge they can't come back from if they do they risked a fan revolt. I think Lenny will work things out over the first few episodes and maybe get married again sometime later in the season this time with family and friends there. I also hope that they will  be living together in 4A or 4B it's time

I'm really hanging on you being mostly correct in your projections.

[fitzsimmons]

I'm gonna ask this to you 'cause you seem to be more able to answer that, since you've been on previous tapings and I'm didn't: how many episodes do you think they'll keep apart? 

I'm always surprised by how the writers handle storylines like this. I have no valid means by which to predict these kinds of things, but my best guess and hope is that it's somewhere around eight episodes. But they kept Leonard and Penny apart for a lot longer than that, so it's hard to know. Then again, Leonard and Penny broke up earlier on in the series so they had a lot more time to play with the characters and stories before getting them back on track. Even though season ten isn't the confirmed end, it's possible that the show won't go past ten or eleven if the actors want to move on to other projects or the writers or anything else. So they may be more conservative with their time now. I think it doesn't make sense to keep them apart for a few weeks and then put them back together; what was the point of it all if you're just going to revert back to the status quo after five minutes? I hope they use this storyline to really work out the issues Amy and Sheldon have separately as well as together and put them back together when they're really right for it. And when we've had enough time to see how they do on their own after being together for so long. I think it's important for their relationship ultimately for them to take this time. You know what they say, if you love something, set it free, and if it comes back to you, it was meant to be. We all know they're meant to be, and we all know they're going to get back together, so the only question mark is how long that will take. For everyone's sake, I hope it's enough time for it all to be worth it.

Edited August 13, 2015 by MichyGeary