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[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9


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 Careful skull, he'll be telling you how to feel next.  

yes because obviously I'm the only one who youve made this accusation towards.  Youve never told this to anyone else. :icon_rolleyes: [\sarcasm]

Asking someone why they stick around after making comments following "that's it, I'm done." Is not telling someone how to feel, its asking them a question.

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That was great Michy

 

Also and this is jmo but keeping them apart for too long isn't going to be good 

 

With only 2 seasons to go there just isn't enough time and I want to enjoy happy in love shamy, although I thought that they were happy and in love last season but that didn't stop the writers from derailing that

Sigh

Edited by rachelshamyfan
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I guess I just keep seeing how Sheldon needs to do this,  and Sheldon needs to do that.  And comments that they are glad that she dumped him because he's x,y,z.  Whether or not I understand why Amy snapped in the premier doesn't make me happy or glad that either of them are going through this. I think they both have work to do because they are both wrong and both right at the same time.  

I don't think that this episode alone is damaging, but I think the writers need to be careful.   How they approach things from here can make or break this couple, even if we all agree they are endgame no matter what. 

I agree Nickelette.  I think the main concern is whether the writers are going to handle this well and how long it is going to take them to get there.  I know many love angst and think it builds for stronger couples, and there is some truth in that, but I still have to remind everyone this is a comedy first and foremost and too much angst can turn off viewers who turn in to watch a light-hearted show for entertainment and laughs, not for angst.   Likewise this show has a lot of other things besides the couples that make it enjoyable, but if they have couples in such a disarray for too long, everyone is going to want to get to the resolution and that too is going to be an issue.

Likewise, it depends on how they handle the in-between steps.  They have already hinted that Amy may consider dating other men and Sheldon quipped he might even look at other women.  If they go that route, they will totally destroy what made Shamy special...both were meant only for each other and that they were never interested in romance with anyone else.   It also will change how we feel about both characters.   So they have a very fine line there to not cross or they could forever ruin this couple.   

I get what Michy is saying, but I also don't want a whole season or half a season of angst.   2-4 episodes is about my limit.  Otherwise finding a true comedy will be in order because I don't tune in to watch angst.   I feel Leonard and Penny are due for a lot of angst as well and having both of the main couples in angsty relationships is not going to be enjoyable to watch.

I also agree with what Nickelette said and that is there is a lot of emphasis here acting as if Sheldon were at fault...but Amy has a lot of blame as well in how their relationship has gone. BOTH have issues and both have grown, but in some ways in opposite directions.  Sheldon was trying to keep up with Amy's desires as best he could but she kept changing the game plan on him.   As said before...the goal post kept moving on him.  He would try to get to the goal post and suddenly it was yards further ahead again.   

When it comes down to settling this it has to be on mutual terms, not one persons or the other.  They need to work out a compromise both are happy with and go from there.   But right now it feels like people are aligning either in the Amy camp or Sheldon camp.    I want to feel like people are in the Shamy camp and want to see both progressing and finding a happiness with each other.   Not so focused on one side or the other.

My biggest fear is how the writers will handle this and right now I am not sure I trust them.   This story came far too late in the game.  It should have been the one they began Season 8 with instead of Season 9 with.   Amy was happy for most of Season 8, which is why the finale was a stunner.   If the writers had been on the ball this should have been Season 8's story and we could have had a lovely Season 9.   Right now, it is coming at a time when it makes less sense because there was so much affection and joy last season until the finale that it seems out of place.   

So because they botched up the timing of when this story should have unfolded, I have skepticism about how well they are going to handle this thing, especially with already hinting that Amy may date other men, Sheldon other women.   That would be a big mistake.   

Do I want to see more of where Sheldon's  heart is at?  Sure...but that could have been done even with them together.  I am still not convinced this split was necessary at all and certainly have an issue with when they timed it.   Too late in the game IMO.   

I am curious how long Michy and others who attended feel like this split is going to last.   Because I think that is going to be critical.  If they take too long...people will lose interest....not all because as Michy said, some love conflict, but people who typically like conflict don't tune into a comedy.  They follow dramas more.   

Edited by stardustmelody
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I'm always surprised by how the writers handle storylines like this. My best guess and hope is that it's somewhere around eight episodes. But they kept Leonard and Penny apart for a lot longer than that, so it's hard to know. Then again, Leonard and Penny broke up earlier on in the series so they had a lot more time to play with. Even though season ten isn't the confirmed end, it's possible that the show won't go past ten or eleven if the actors want to move on to other projects or the writers or anything else. So they may be more conservative with their time now. I think it doesn't make sense to keep them apart for a few weeks and then put them back together; what was the point of it all if you're just going to revert back to the status quo after five minutes? I hope they use this storyline to really work out the issues Amy and Sheldon have separately as well as together and put them back together when they're really right for it. And when we've had enough time to see how they do on their own after being together for so long. I think it's important for their relationship ultimately for them to take this time. You know what they say, if you love something, set it free, and if it comes back to you, it was meant to be. We all know they're meant to be, and we all know they're going to get back together, so the only question mark is how long that will take. For everyone's sake, I hope it's enough time for it all to be worth it.

I was thinking that they probably wouldn't keep them apart for just 2 or 3 episodes. If they did that and make them back together at episode 3, for example, then what would they talk about for the rest of the season? There would be no new storyline. 
I agree when you say about 8 episodes, because it's the first half of the season, and it'll air in November, if everything occur as planned. I'll ask again because nobody gave me an answer: is there something scheduled to happen in november? Like a special event or something simillar?

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Bernadette considered it cheating.....so by her standards in her relationship with Howard it was cheating.

You can say whatever you want until you're blue in the face. It is NOT cheating, End if story/

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November sweeps begin on Episode 5...just so everyone has things in perspective.   Episode 5 will air the last week in October which is when November sweeps begin.

If they choose to wait until February...they may have less audience.   I think people won't want to watch this drag out that long. I know some want it long...but the vast majority of viewers like when things are happy and funny...not angsty.   Again, wrong genre show for that.

Edited by stardustmelody
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Let's not confuse "dragging it out" with "giving it proper time," though. Why break them up after five years only to have them get back together after two episodes? It needs to be purposeful, there needs to be a reason for the breakup. I hope the writers leverage it for some growth for both of them, individually as well as a couple. And let's also not forget how long Leonard and Penny were broken up. It didn't change the mood of the show from comedy. But it did take them a long time to get back together. It's not impossible to have comedy in the middle of a break up. In fact, there's a lot of comedic potential here. I'm sure the writers know what they're doing and will do it right.

Edited by MichyGeary
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Well the writers have said how passionate they are of Shamy their cash cow. Not the same passion as lenny. It's like. do we really have to write about lenny? We just make something up as we write about sheldon and shamy.

So you obviously know what the writers are thinking and KNOW FOR A FACT that they only have passion for Shamy and that every other ship (including Lenny) is a chore for them to write? :icon_rolleyes:

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If they have shamy broke up for half the season then I guess its because the show has committed to season 11 but not confirmed

 

I just want them back together and they can get back together and do that while sorting their issues out rather than having to wait and I think Sheldon and Amy will both use the time apart wisely, neither will have any choice in the matter

Edited by rachelshamyfan
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Yes Rachel , that I agree with. It was a total bonehead move much a la Howard at that time, and of course he shouldn't have done it. That being said I think that if Howardette were much further along in their relationship at that time she wouldn't have broken it off (JMO).

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Nothing special is scheduled for November that I know of (although I am spoiler free... shocking, I know) but November sweeps is when networks and shows put forth their best content for advertisers and ratings, which means the biggest things tend to happen in November (and February, and May, and July, where applicable). So if anyone is mentioning November, that's probably why. 

Okay. Now for Leonard and Penny portion of my impressions of the episode.

I can honestly say that, for the first act (and the first half of the second act) I was very impressed with Leonard and Penny. The maturity level between them, after Leonard's minor infidelity coming to light on the drive up, was honestly impressive. They were both in good spirits; they were smiling and cracking jokes (Leonard wanting to stream their wedding for all those beautiful blondes out there who don't think they have a shot with a short theoretical physicist!, Penny saying the wedding would be beautiful because "look at that tip jar!"). Leonard brought up "the car thing" once before the wedding, because he wanted to make sure that Penny was really okay with it. He feels awful about what he did and he wanted to make sure that she was really sure about marrying him before they went through with it. Penny asked him to stop bringing it up, which sounded a lot like she had moved past it and she wanted him to do the same.

The wedding ceremony was really adorable. Penny wore a beautiful pink dress with roses at the neckline and black straps. She had a white veil going down the back of her hair, and Leonard had the cutest suit and tie. Just before walking down the aisle, they both marveled that they were really doing this, and they both said how much they love each other and they honestly looked like they would never remember how to stop smiling. Leonard almost kissed her but they were interrupted by the receptionist shouting about whether or not they wanted the potpourri petals from the bathroom since they ran out of rose petals.

And the vows were perfect. When the minister asked if they'd prepared them, Penny said "no" and Leonard said "Yes" at the same time. Penny joked about him showing her up, and (I think, we only saw it once in playback so I can't be sure but) Leonard offered not to read is. She then joked that she would say something mushy and he would cry and it would be fine. And then he pulled out his little piece of paper that he'd written his vows on and it was very long, but it was equal parts nerdy as hell and romantic as hell. And Penny's eyes just went wide and you could tell she had no idea how she was going to top that until the minister said it was her turn. She started to give genuine vows. She said he's not only the love of her life, but he's her best friend. And that's when it kind of degenerated into "You've Got A Friend In Me" lyrics. At first we were embarrassed for her, but then the minister said, "Isn't that from Toy Story?" and Penny said, "Yeah, he loves that movie," and then cut to Leonard, blubbering like a baby, saying, "I do!"

The next time we see them, they're waving at the camera to their friends about how happy they were that they got to see them get married.

Even going up to the honeymoon suite, they were so in love and cute with each other. Leonard making sure that he carried her over the threshold and then struggling to do so, and then Penny teasing him about it but saying well done when he got her to the bed. Leonard calling her Mrs. Hofstadter and being so glad there finally was one that wasn't disappointed in him and she jokes, "the night is still young!" Which is all the more sad when they get on the bed and start to kiss and Penny just doesn't look right.

They did a lot of takes of that scene, and the more they did it, the more broken Kaley/Penny looked. She really thought she was okay with it, until she was there kissing her husband and all she could think about was him kissing someone else. When she confesses this, Leonard is just as heartbroken as she is. "You've got a friend in me, you said so!" he cries, and she says, you're right, forget it, and tries again. And this time it's Leonard who pulls back and wants to clarify, "If you're thinking it was sexy, it wasn't. We were drunk, she smelled like an ash tray, the boat was moving so I chipped her tooth..." Penny wants to know if he felt guilty, and he says of course he did. He felt guilty the minute it happened, and still every time he sees her. And that's when Penny goes from just sad and heartbroken to really angry. "You still see her?" And Leonard defends that it's not socially but at work. Penny is even more worked up and asks why he didn't tell her. He wanted to in the car but she told him to stop talking, and now she wants to know, "This is my fault?" And he says no, but instead of fighting, let's dim the lights, get naked and make a baby.

That was the point that really got me in a bad way. It was bad enough that Leonard still sees and works with the girl, and that he didn't tell her, but that kind of stuff I feel like Penny could deal with and get over with some time and love. But (and Leonard says it was a joke, so I may be overreacting here) I really didn't like him suggesting they make a baby when she was angry at him. It was too reminiscent of soap opera storylines where the man wants to leave the woman, so she tricks him into sleeping with her and getting her pregnant so that he won't leave her. I was just so disappointed in Leonard for saying that, even if it was just a joke. Joking, "Let's get naked and have sex" would have been funny. Joking, "Let's get naked and make a baby so that you can't leave me," just stunk a little too much of desperation and lowness.

This, like Shamy, is a tough situation because I can understand both of their sides. They come home furious with each other and storm off to their respective apartments. Leonard can't understand why she went through with the wedding if she wasn't okay with it after he checked with her so many times. Penny is obviously upset, not only at his indiscretion, but at his not disclosing that he still sees this girl all the time. They're still married and they're still in love, but it's going to be a rough road getting them back to happy. But even after their last scene together, when Sheldon comes over to console Penny with tea and he says that he could never be with a woman whose self-esteem was low enough to be with Leonard, Penny gives him a daggering look and says, "I'm with Leonard!" Which I honestly found to be a bit of a glimmer of hope, because she's not in a place where she wants to divorce him or get an annulment. She's still with him. She still wants to be with him. She's just having a hard time getting past the Mandy Cho thing. And who can blame her? It's not her fault that she can't get it out of her head. But it's not Leonard's fault either. This one is going to be tricky because neither of them can really do anything about it. Leonard's apologized, what more can he do? He can't go back and unkiss that girl, and even if he did something drastic like leave the university so he didn't have to work with her anymore, that still doesn't mean Penny's going to stop picturing it when she kisses him. This is another one that's just going to take time.

I'm really not happy with it. As a Lenny fan, I really was hoping they were going to bury this storyline after an episode. Actually, to be perfectly honest, I thought Penny would have that moment right before the "I dos" and not go through with it. But when they got married, I was so proud and impressed. I was like, wow, they're being adults, they've moved past it, and they're so happy. But then to have it all go to shit in the second act and now they're even worse off than they were at the end of the eighth season... I'm just really worried for them. I have my little glimmer of hope and I'll hold onto it, but I think it's going to be a rougher road for them than it will be for Shamy.

You made me feel better about the whole thing. You have a gift with words. That toy story dialogue maybe the fav piece of dialogue of read from bbt. I'm sure it's going to be a tough season for them. But Penny's understanding from the get go, shows how deeply they love each other, and the maturity and depth in their relationship is what we'll get them through. 

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yes because obviously I'm the only one who youve made this accusation towards.  Youve never told this to anyone else. :icon_rolleyes: [\sarcasm]

Asking someone why they stick around after making comments following "that's it, I'm done." Is not telling someone how to feel, its asking them a question.

I only tell that to people who tell or imply that the way others enjoy or not enjoy the show are doing it wrong, as you did.   I find it rather humorous that you have no problem telling others how you feel about their comments, but  get so defensive and upset when someone tells you how they feel about your comments.   

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I'm starting to see both Leonard and Sheldon trying to win their women back until some point of the season. Hope it doesn't last too long, but I think it could be funny. Remember the old days when Howard and Raj tried to catch up women? It looks like the scenario we have now, except that they'll do everything to fix their mistakes and get redemption by them.

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Thank you Michy for being a voice of clarity and reason. Brilliant explanation on both Shamy and Lenny. As a person who has gone to tapings before, I subscribe to the notion that people who go to the taping are the people whose opinions are most valid before the episode airs because they see the physical product before anyone else. This is why I hardly ever comment my opinion on an episode before I watch it. I do, however, like to speculate what may be coming next. 

I feel like the writers were only half telling the truth when they said we would find out about the ring at Comicon (.....oh yeah that's right....SHELDON HAS A RING!!!). A ring that we heard absolutely nothing about from the taping last night (unless I missed that part). Assuming that this year there will be 2 episodes when it premiers, we could get more info on the ring in episode 2 and it still technically being on the "season premier". Because lets face, we need to know more about this ring! I haven't seen it brought up once by people since the report (I did skip a couple pages in this thread so forgive me if this statement is incorrect).

Let's not forget that Amy knows nothing about this ring Sheldon has. What sort of feelings will it cause her to have if she finds out about it? How much would its reveal change things? While it does seem rather cliche to have her be filled with joy when he presents her with something material, I think the writers have the potential to make it work in this instance.

It's hard to know how any of this all will turn out for both Lenny and Shamy, but I think it's fascinating none the less. 

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I'm just really worried for them. I have my little glimmer of hope and I'll hold onto it, but I think it's going to be a rougher road for them than it will be for Shamy.

Well we do meet Mandy in 9x02, so I have a feeling we're going to know what Leonard's mindset was, at that time.

Anyways the thing that was bugging me was why Leonard kept that part a secret from her, according to you it's because she wanted him to stop talking about it, and that he was in a distraught state of mind on whether he thought she wanted to hear more.  The way he only brought up more information when only Penny pushed him for it in the season 8 finale, made me think there was something he wasn't telling.

It doesn't change the fact that Leonard made another boner of a decision in revealing that after they are married, but I can buy that explanation.  Even if I'm not happy with Leonards choices as a character, or the fact that the writers decided to start off their marriage on a sour note.  Though if there's an ulterior motive to this and that results in some serendipity, I wouldn't mind that at all.

I will say Michy that your description of that first half with Lenny does make them sound adorable.  It makes it sound like something that's not an anti-climatic wedding ceremony (for the first half any ways ;) )  When the episode comes out, I'm hoping I can at least appreciate the episode for that first half between them.

 

Also I wouldn't take the turn off the light, and make a baby joke that seriously.  I can easily buy that as Leonard's feeble attempt at "breaking the tension with comedy and leading to sex."

 

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THANK GOD we will have 4 (?) more tapings before this episode airs. I honestly don't think I could watch without knowing what happens next.

Not to mention I will be overseas the last 2 weeks of september and am going to have to wait until I return to watch the first two episodes :crying:

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You can say whatever you want until you're blue in the face. It is NOT cheating, End if story/

Excuse me? End of story? Sorry I have an opinion on the subject..... He was having online sex with a woman that was NOT his girlfriend. Bernadette considered that cheating and I agree. I'm not saying Howard is a bad guy but she was hurt by him because he cheated on her sexually with another person.

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Thank you Michy for being a voice of clarity and reason. Brilliant explanation on both Shamy and Lenny. As a person who has gone to tapings before, I subscribe to the notion that people who go to the taping are the people whose opinions are most valid before the episode airs because they see the physical product before anyone else. This is why I hardly ever comment my opinion on an episode before I watch it. I do, however, like to speculate what may be coming next. 

I feel like the writers were only half telling the truth when they said we would find out about the ring at Comicon (.....oh yeah that's right....SHELDON HAS A RING!!!). A ring that we heard absolutely nothing about from the taping last night (unless I missed that part). Assuming that this year there will be 2 episodes when it premiers, we could get more info on the ring in episode 2 and it still technically being on the "season premier". Because lets face, we need to know more about this ring! I haven't seen it brought up once by people since the report (I did skip a couple pages in this thread so forgive me if this statement is incorrect).

Let's not forget that Amy knows nothing about this ring Sheldon has. What sort of feelings will it cause her to have if she finds out about it? How much would its reveal change things? While it does seem rather cliche to have her be filled with joy when he presents her with something material, I think the writers have the potential to make it work in this instance.

It's hard to know how any of this all will turn out for both Lenny and Shamy, but I think it's fascinating none the less. 

Unfortunatelly, this year the back-to-back thing will not happen. So no Episode 2 right after episode one, instead, it'll air one week later. 
Yeah, it sucks, I know. 
:icon_neutral:

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Question for the taping attendees:  did they mention anything about Amy's great-uncle who didn't play by the rules?  I didn't see any mention of it in the TR, but please forgive me if it's there and I overlooked it.  The reason I ask is that it's another thing they said would be in the premiere and wasn't.  To me, it's more indication of a two-parter.  If so, they may consider the first two episodes as the premiere, even though they won't be airing on the same night.

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Okay. Now for Leonard and Penny portion of my impressions of the episode.

Snip...

I have my little glimmer of hope and I'll hold onto it, but I think it's going to be a rougher road for them than it will be for Shamy.

Thanks you so much Michy.   I still don't feel good about this, and the sliver is just that, a sliver.  If this was something isolated, I don't think it would be so bad.  But with the way last season went, compared to the previous seasons, this kind of start is just pretty damn depressing for me.  I really love this show, I've never gotten so involved with a show before, but I can only explain how I feel.  I don't want to comment on others here as some are happy, some are not, but it's isn't my place to tell others how they should feel about this.  Again, thanks for your perspective and thanks for all your work on the attending the taping thread. 

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