[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9

[ATOB]

18 hours ago, meka3000 said:

 

-Amy in the season 8 finale: "Being your girlfriend is so challenging. Emotionally, physically. I’ve been incredibly patient for years.  Okay, well, this isn’t easy to say, because I love you, but I need some time to take a step back and re-evaluate our situation."  How is that not her explaining why she needs time off?

 

It explains what is happening, but it doesn't explain the whys and what-fors does it though?

The whys and what-fors would be something along the lines of....

Being your girlfriend is so challenging because....

Emotionally and physically, I am drained because....

I've been incredibly patient for years but still you seem unable to meet my needs which are....

I need to take some time to take a step back and re-evaluate our situation and, to clarify, the 'situation' from my perspective is....

That would be explaining why. Stating you are challenged physically and emotionally, and tired of waiting (for what? Insert what Amy is tired of waiting for according to personal viewer subjectivity) and that she needs to re-evaluate the situation does not explain why she feels that way nor what she needs to evaluate.

 

[910]

55 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

I don't consider dumping people or cheating as absolute regression.  People don't always find love right away, for some like Raj it takes more time than they would probably like.  And people sometimes have moments of weakness.  That doesn't make it regression necessarily.

Also Raj breaking up with Emily I consider a blessing in disguise because he didn't really deep down love her anyway.  He just didn't want to be alone.

Sometimes you have to take a step back to take 2 steps forward.  That includes Amy she needed to take a step back in order to discover that she truly did want sheldon.

Then why did Raj try to reconcile with Emily if he never really loved her anyway?  Oh wait he has to learn to be alone, even though he was alone for a long time before meeting Emily, so back to the dating pool to make even more mistakes.

How is cheating and lying, or withholding information not regression, especially when Leonard already confided in Penny when he was contemplating cheating on Priya with Alice?  Also, Leonard knows how much Penny hated her previous cheating boyfriends, but yet Leonard still cheats, withheld the information, tells a friend (Howard), chastises Penny for her drunken marriage, gets engaged to her, but oh wait let me get something off my chest on the way to the altar, and absolves it all with let's not be afraid to lose one another and just love each other, yet I still need a psychiatrist and my wife thinks she is my mother.  Nope, no regression at all.  

Oh but wait, no worries, Leonard is a main character, but not a popular main character so it doesn't really count.  Viewers should have only ever cared about the popular characters and never liked any of the other characters.  I wish I had known this nine seasons ago.  

Edited January 26, 2016 by Touche

[meka3000]

4 minutes ago, ATOB said:

It explains what is happening, but it doesn't explain the whys and what-fors does it though?

The whys and what-fors would be something along the lines of....

Being your girlfriend is so challenging because....

Emotionally and physically, I am drained because....

I've been incredibly patient for years but still you seem unable to meet my needs which are....

I need to take some time to take a step back and re-evaluate our situation and, to clarify, the 'situation' from my perspective is....

Why as viewers are we not capable of filling in those blanks?  Why do we need to have these things spelled out when they are obvious if we actually think about them for more than a minute?

[April]

27 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

I don't consider dumping people or cheating as absolute regression.  People don't always find love right away, for some like Raj it takes more time than they would probably like.  And people sometimes have moments of weakness.  That doesn't make it regression necessarily.

Also Raj breaking up with Emily I consider a blessing in disguise because he didn't really deep down love her anyway.  He just didn't want to be alone.

Sometimes you have to take a step back to take 2 steps forward.  That includes Amy she needed to take a step back in order to discover that she truly did want sheldon.

Yeah, the story of Raj and Emily was supposed to be an opportunity to bring about some character growth for Raj in that he needs to learn to step away from a relationship that isn't working. Or so Molaro said in an interview a long while ago. They had him chicken out in 8x24 and then sadly kinda sorta forgot about Emily for most of S9. But at least she's been a bit in the latest episodes and although her creepiness didn't really come up again there was a glimpse or two about how they didn't exactly work as a couple on other areas as well. I don't think it would have been an unfixable issue if the writers were inclined to write that kind of story but then again, we know so little about their relationship so it's hard to tell.

Now it seems though that they want to tackle Raj's actual issue of him chasing after this dream of a perfect kitschy romance and naturally he runs after the next best girl that he feels he has a connection with. And it completely backfires when he ends up alone - rightfully so, I might add because JFC RAJ WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU??? ugh They can go into many directions here but first and foremost this does sound like a good starting point to have him grow up a little.

Edited January 26, 2016 by April

[meka3000]

45 minutes ago, Touche said:

-Wow, so for Raj dumping someone is now a required rite of passage before you can develop a real relationship?  Hardly growth in my book and should have happened much sooner if so.

-Leonard pined for Penny even when he was dating Priya, and yes he is insecure, but how exactly did cheating help him grow?  

-Also, why would Leonard tell Howard, but not tell Penny until eloping?  

-Finally, why on earth would Leonard give Penny a hard time about her marriage to Zack if he had already cheated on her,

-or even get engaged to Penny for that matter without disclosing the incident?  Oh, but that is growth right?  

-All people find true love right away?  I don't think so.

-He hasn't made a mistake like that again has he?

-Yeah why would he tell someone who would likely take it extremely hard right away.   Most likely the same reason she didn't tell Leonard about her feelings in 6x02, but confided in her friends.

-Because he was blindsided by it and needed time to come to grips with it.  You'll notice its not a big deal for him by the end of that.  People don't always use perspective right away because people ARE NOT cold emotionless logical robots.  They let their emotions cloud their judgement.

-Because it most likely wasn't as big a deal to him, UNTIL he needed an excuse to postpone getting married.  Then he most likely decided it would be a big deal because he needed it to be.

18 minutes ago, Touche said:

Then why did Raj try to reconcile with Emily if he never really loved her anyway?.

Desperation because its Valentines Day, duh.

 

Quote

How is cheating and lying, or withholding information not regression, especially when Leonard already confided in Penny when he was contemplating cheating on Priya with Alice?

 

Because Priya is not Penny, he fears hurting her more than he did Priya.

 

Quote

Oh but wait, no worries, Leonard is a main character, but not a popular main character so it doesn't really count.  Viewers should have only ever cared about the popular characters and never liked any of the other characters.

 

Leonard is still married to Penny despite the hiccups, that IS progress.

 

Edited January 26, 2016 by meka3000

[Squonk]

55 minutes ago, Touche said:

Wow, so for Raj dumping someone is now a required rite of passage before you can develop a real relationship?  Hardly growth in my book and should have happened much sooner if so.

Leonard pined for Penny even when he was dating Priya, and yes he is insecure, but how exactly did cheating help him grow?  Also, why would Leonard tell Howard, but not tell Penny until eloping?  Finally, why on earth would Leonard give Penny a hard time about her marriage to Zack if he had already cheated on her, or even get engaged to Penny for that matter without disclosing the incident?  Oh, but that is growth right?  

Leonard never cheated on Penny.

Leonard gave Penny a hard time about her marriage to Zack because he is a clueless nerd (it's the premise of the show I guess).

I may have to go back into his thread to read the actual discussion.

[ATOB]

12 hours ago, camelliayao said:

My guess is that the writers of this show are extremely good at writing sarcasm jokes. A lot of the jokes of the show come from Sheldon doing/saying something ridiculous and people rolling their eyes at him. In the past, Lenny are the ones who do the job of getting annoyed by Sheldon. Now since Shamy's together time is a lot more than before, it's Amy's turn to be the "normal" one and get annoyed by Sheldon. Therefore, they can't show us Shamy smiling, high fiving each other or enjoying each other's company, because these things are not funny, or at least not TBBT funny.

'Sheldon don't get it.' That's the modus operandi for BBT.

For a short, blissful and harmonious time, Amy 'didn't get it' either. Did they take it too far with the bi-curious crush on Penny? Maybe? Maybe not? Personally I loved that weird, kooky Amy creeping the bejesus outta everyone. Shamy against the rest of the gang, Shamy against the world. A private members club of two.  

Problem for me is that the more Amy 'gets it' the more the balance tips from two souls in synch to the eye-rolling, short of patience 'carer' and her vulnerable ward. This is ultimately the thing that makes my arse twitch when romantic Shenny is mentioned, that imbalance, and I certainly don't want to see it with Shamy.

Screw dressing her like Bernadette and having Sheldon's behavior 'embarrass' her. Bring back the Amy who thought the Skype conversation between Sheldon and her mother 'went well'. Who dresses like she just crawled through a charity donation bin. For me, the more they normalise her, the more they knock that Shamy magic off kilter. Dave had to tell Amy what Sheldon was saying at her door FFS! We get glimpses, the hidden overnight bags are good recent one, but in my opinion, the writers need to revisit their original premise, this is afterall supposed to be a female Sheldon remember. 

Personally, my preference would've been for ''Coitus' to occur out of a mutual curiousity between them. After all, what do members of the same species do when they stumble across each other? I think it'd be far more interesting to see how two people who 'don't get it' get it!

1 hour ago, meka3000 said:

Why as viewers are we not capable of filling in those blanks?  Why do we need to have these things spelled out when they are obvious if we actually think about them for more than a minute?

We don't.  We can all add our own speculation.....and then have a big fight about it.

You said 'how does this not explain why' (or words to that effect) and I explained that actually it merely stated some facts but gave no reasons for the facts existence, no whys, no where-fors, no nuffink or nuffink!

[wowbagger]

1 hour ago, April said:

Yeah, the story of Raj and Emily was supposed to be an opportunity to bring about some character growth for Raj in that he needs to learn to step away from a relationship that isn't working. Or so Molaro said in an interview a long while ago. They had him chicken out in 8x24 and then sadly kinda sorta forgot about Emily for most of S9. But at least she's been a bit in the latest episodes and although her creepiness didn't really come up again there was a glimpse or two about how they didn't exactly work as a couple on other areas as well. I don't think it would have been an unfixable issue if the writers were inclined to write that kind of story but then again, we know so little about their relationship so it's hard to tell.

Now it seems though that they want to tackle Raj's actual issue of him chasing after this dream of a perfect kitschy romance and naturally he runs after the next best girl that he feels he has a connection with. And it completely backfires when he ends up alone - rightfully so, I might add because JFC RAJ WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU??? ugh They can go into many directions here but first and foremost this does sound like a good starting point to have him grow up a little.

I am really looking forward to seeing Raj get a good stern talking-to as well, from the girls. Enough coddling! And if they do bring Emily back (and while the show never seemed to figure out what to do with poor Emily after she became Raj's girlfriend, I do think LS has chemistry with KN)- my God, Raj, be honest about what does and doesn't work for you, and think about what you really want and what is a real dealbreaker for you.

Here's hoping this is a proper arc for the fool...

[Squonk]

39 minutes ago, ATOB said:

' Did they take it too far with the bi-curious crush on Penny? Maybe? Maybe not? Personally I loved that weird, kooky Amy creeping the bejesus outta everyone. Shamy against the rest of the gang, Shamy against the world. A private members club of two.  

 

There never was such a thing as a bi-curious Amy. There was also never such a thing as a private members club of two. Still it doesn't even comes close to my real life group of neighbours and friends.

[JE7]

5 hours ago, camelliayao said:

Just ew.

Sheldon recently just figured out how much he loves his girlfriend and how miserable he is without Amy in his life. He needs her so much that he takes her back even though he knows he might get hurt again. He enjoys spending time with her so much that he doesn't know what to do at weekends when she's out of town. How could he possibly be in a affair?

Besides I think the show makes it perfectly clear that Sheldon is very happy with his relationship and his life right now. He said it himself that despite all the heartbreaks, he think the break up is necessary. Gradual growth of their compassion and respect between whom? Sheldon and Penny? Sure, her compassion is so much that she rolls her eyes at him basically every time he talks. He respects her so much that the only thing he says about her in his video for the future crazy Sheldon is she eats free food.

And Emily? First of all, Emily is nothing like Amy or Penny. Intellectually, Sheldon thinks Amy as an equal. Besides Emily is a dermatologist. I respect all doctors but from what I saw in Grey's Anatomy, that's like the least badass kind of doctor... Also do you remember what Sheldon says about her and clowns?

Sheldon is a noble man, even in those moments when he's least loveable, he never does anything intentionally to hurt Amy. Also, Penny is a girl who's serious about marriage and relationships. Even though she had many boyfriends in the past, when she starts dating Leonard, she's very loyal. 

Some of us shippers are not happy with the storyline because the writers could've done a better job. Or maybe we read too many fanfics lol. But that doesn't mean Shamy are unhappy. In fact, their relationship is stronger than ever.

 

[Mislav]

22 minutes ago, Squonk said:

There never was such a thing as a bi-curious Amy. There was also never such a thing as a private members club of two. Still it doesn't even comes close to my real life group of neighbours and friends.

What show have you been watching?

[Squonk]

6 minutes ago, Mislav said:

What show have you been watching?

What show have you been watching?

[Stephen Hawking]

19 hours ago, jenafan said:

Yes, we need to respect our elders.   100%

I can't agree with that.

Should I respect a murderer/dug dealer/rapist/child molester, just because they're older than me?

A person should be respected, because they deserve it, not because they were born before you.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Stephen Hawking

[jenafan]

3 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

I can't agree with that.

Should I respect a murderer/dug dealer/rapist/child molester, just because they're older than me?

A person should be respected, because they deserve it, not because they were born before you.

Agreed, but my comment was referring to those not in the categories you mentioned.  Meemaw may have a bone to pick with Amy, but she's not a bad person. 

[Mislav]

9 minutes ago, Squonk said:

What show have you been watching?

Unlike you, Squonk, "The Big Bang Theory".

[Stephen Hawking]

3 minutes ago, jenafan said:

Agreed, but my comment was referring to those not in the categories you mentioned.  Meemaw may have a bone to pick with Amy, but she's not a bad person. 

But you did say we should respect our elders, 100%.

To me, 100% means there can be no exceptions, and all our elders should be respected.

[Chrismo]

43 minutes ago, Squonk said:

There never was such a thing as a bi-curious Amy. There was also never such a thing as a private members club of two. Still it doesn't even comes close to my real life group of neighbours and friends.

The $3000 painting she got for Penny. A little soap and water and they would both be naked.

[Stephen Hawking]

6 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

A little soap and water and they would both be naked.

To quote Penny:-

You’re talking about the painting, right?  

[meka3000]

1 hour ago, ATOB said:

You said 'how does this not explain why' (or words to that effect) and I explained that actually it merely stated some facts but gave no reasons for the facts existence, no whys, no where-fors, no nuffink or nuffink!

The years of us watching her in their relationship are physically and emotionally challenging for her.  And we've seen her be incredibly patient with Sheldon because we WATCHED her put up with his shit for multiple seasons.  Why does this need to be spelled out?

[Tensor]

13 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

The years of us watching her in their relationship are physically and emotionally challenging for her.  And we've seen her be incredibly patient with Sheldon because we WATCHED her put up with his shit for multiple seasons.  Why does this need to be spelled out?

Because your oblivious, is someone elses obvious.  And your obvious is someone else's oblivious.   Not everyone looks at it the same, even if they spend time thinking about it.  

[Squonk]

42 minutes ago, Mislav said:

words

watch it better

[nibbler747]

1 hour ago, Squonk said:

There never was such a thing as a bi-curious Amy. There was also never such a thing as a private members club of two. Still it doesn't even comes close to my real life group of neighbours and friends.

The writers even admitted on panel that they took Amy's "Penny Crush" a little too far, so there was in fact a bi-curious Amy.  They said it started out as a little joke, but then it got a bit out of hand, so they ended it.

I'm not sure of the confusion of the private members club for two.  It's more of an expression, than something literal.   Like a super exclusive club of two members only!  A secret club...

[Einstein Von Brainstorm]

9 hours ago, rachelshamyfan said:

This is the neatest most minimal rainbow I have ever seen, it really speaks to me as a designer!

Allow me to add a low-polly style Unicorn to this thread to continue the high quality Rainbows and Unicorns theme

[ATOB]

23 hours ago, meka3000 said:

The years of us watching her in their relationship are physically and emotionally challenging for her.  And we've seen her be incredibly patient with Sheldon because we WATCHED her put up with his shit for multiple seasons.  Why does this need to be spelled out?

Yes, we were were all WATCHING (hey, why are we writing WATCHING like this?) and that right there's the beauty of BBT hermeneutics, and this here is where I think you hit a block Meka3000.

Every person WATCHING (caps again) will form their own exegesis (or even their own eisegesis if they ignore canon for rainbowy head-canon) depending on their own personal preference and experience. Some opinions will overlap of course, but where there no definite answers given, there will be a myriad of possible reasons a person WATCHING can attribute to a character's actions or thoughts.

An example;

I've been incredibly patient for years but still you seem unable to make a commitment to me.

I've been incredibly patient for years but I want a physical relationship and don't know if I can continue if that's never going to happen.

I've been incredibly patient for years but you still are unable to consider my feelings and realise that the way you act hurts me.

So, which one is the right one? 

Edited January 27, 2016 by Tripper

[Einstein Von Brainstorm]

9 hours ago, Touche said:

Which is exactly how affairs start.  No demands and no expectations and two unlikely friends that have been spent years together helping one another. Two wronged parties consoling one another only to find out the gradual growth of their compassion and respect is stronger than the supposed love for their significant other.  Yet, wait, Penny is not intellectually suitable for Sheldon, so break up Raj and Emily and now perhaps even Emily is a suitable replacement for Sheldon.  

I am by no means advocating that, but the drama manufactured seems to only be for shock value and to spike ratings, rather than realistic genuine emotion.  However, maybe that is the point is our emotions make us do stupid things.  Perhaps Season one Sheldon Cooper had it right all along. Relationships are not worth the drama and turmoil.

Someone who "Isn't a real Doctor" whose job is "popping zits and squirting botox into old lady faces" whose Red Hair really sets off his Clown phobia - He rates her attractiveness to that of a clown. 

Sounds like the exact intellectual match for the great Sheldon Cooper, Homonovos definitely wants a companion who isn't a real Doctor with what he sees as a menial job, yep aha, seems legit! 10 points to Hufflepuff!