[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9

[3ku11]

Sheldon would prob poke holes in the lifeboats. And take or the Life Jackets for himself lol. I recall Sheldon: Does it involve me? Leonard: No Sheldon: Then suffer in silence.

Edited January 30, 2016 by 3ku11

[Mislav]

38 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I am unclear about the reasons for the love. I can understand the identification with Amy and I can accept that people might want more for Sheldon because they empathise with the character, but to see him as an object of desire escapes me... and I am not without ability to admire the same sex. I have said earlier that Jimmy Smits as Bobby in NYPD Blue was as character I "might" of have turned for, but Sheldon has few redeeming features. He is so self-focused, and, humbly, my forearms are equally as attractive. And Sheldon just strikes me as the person who would push past me on the way to the lifeboat - because humanity needs him - or so he believes.

Sheldon saved Leonard's life in "The Staircase Implementation" and he was very worried about Leonard in "The Septum Deviation", he drove Penny to the hospital in "The Adhesive Duck Deficiency", and he took care of Amy for weeks in "The Fish Guts Displacement." So it looks like you're talking bs here. Claiming that sitcom character is selfish enough to murder his friend despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary seems pretty... unhealthy, and borderline disrespectful.

[3ku11]

9 minutes ago, Mislav said:

Sheldon saved Leonard's life in "The Staircase Implementation" and he was very worried about Leonard in "The Septum Deviation", he drove Penny to the hospital in "The Adhesive Duck Deficiency", and he took care of Amy for weeks in "The Fish Guts Displacement." So it looks like you're talking bs here. Claiming that sitcom character is selfish enough to murder his friend despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary seems pretty... unhealthy, and borderline disrespectful.

Lol oh a Sheldon apologist. I dont think Nograv ever accused Sheldon of being a murdere. Just questioning Sheldon motives. Unhealthy? That's an odd comment. Sheldon diddnt save Leonards life intentionally. And besides sure Sheldon has his good points. Sure. But whats that 5 good points vs 1000 times of being an ass to his friends? So what kinda numbers are we talking about here. Can't ignore his ascinine behaviour. His arrogance, his emotionall abuse of his loved ones intentional or not. Simply because he did a few good deads. Is not overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[ATOB]

35 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I am unclear about the reasons for the love. I can understand the identification with Amy and I can accept that people might want more for Sheldon because they empathise with the character, but to see him as an object of desire escapes me... and I am not without ability to admire the same sex. I have said earlier that Jimmy Smits as Bobby in NYPD Blue was as character I "might" of have turned for, but Sheldon has few redeeming features. He is so self-focused, and, humbly, my forearms are equally as attractive. And Sheldon just strikes me as the person who would push past me on the way to the lifeboat - because humanity needs him - or so he believes.

Y'know I'm not sure TPTB really understand the Sheldon phenomenon either. It most certainly has everything to do with the delightful Jim Parsons' depiction, and there was a rather delicious inside joke within the Earworm episode when Sheldon begins the video log of his desent into madness. Sorry, I can't remember the exact words, but he mentioned his obsessing over his spot on the sofa and something along the lines of "somehow you manage to make it adorable". With his delivery direct to camera, it broke the fourth wall and was gloriously tongue in cheek, and I think serves to show that the team behind BBT are equally as flummoxed to exactly how Jim pulls it off. The alchemy of Jim Parsons and Sheldon Cooper somehow just works, it's one of the wonders of tvland!

Other antiheroes are popular, but not adored in quite the same way. It's down to Jim. Got to be.

[EvilStewie]

Its different for everyone I'm sure, is there ONE reason we love someone. Lots of people are smart and have a good sense of humor, so why do they love that one particular person? I can't answer that really, but as far as being desirable I have a theory, and I wouldn't put this out there if it didn't apply to me in some way, You asked and sorry if this is TMI...

I enjoy Yaoi, which are male/male romantic manga.  I have read articles of this, and why its so popular with women.  First I want to get some terms out of the way, cause it will will be easier to understand

Seme, "top" but the term originated from martial arts and is derives from the ichidan verb "to attack"

Uke "bottom" derives from the verb "to receive"

Anyway, there have been a few studies now into this, and what they are finding is that 

A: There is no gender role that a female feels she has been assigned, she can choose based on the character's personality and by the story plot its self, and most find they identify with the Seme.

B: It allows women to be open about there sexuality. Lets be real here, women are judged by how the dress, right? If she is over dressed she is a prude, and under dress... well.. you know where I'm going. Its the same with what you read, If a woman was out waiting for a bus and reading a romance, I bet she  would be approached at least once. Reading a male/male romance that doesn't happen, because there is no box to put her in. Is she straight, kinda... most don't know how to approach it and keep walking.

So after all that I can get to my point, sorry...

What I have found reading into that, is a lot of women are sick the the goody two shoes, vanilla sex role they have been assigned. Look at women's top fantasies, the mysterious stranger, or being ravaged.  

I don't want to say he was unfeeling, but he didn't feel things like most people feel. That mysterious stranger isn't gonna get hurt, it can be that raw unemotional sex. The other thing about Sheldon is he was inexperienced, to quote Bernadette " He seemed intelligent, kind of a loner, maybe a little sexually inexperienced, like I'd have to teach him a thing or two. " 

I think you're hitting a lot of different things there with one character! 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2016 by EvilStewie

[Mislav]

5 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I think generally he might be the antagonist, really. And objectively, is he worthy? Does he improve the world and the lives of those around him, except by giving them challenges to surmount? Its pretty much all about him and what he wants. But it does work to create situations.

By the definition, a protagonist is the leading character or one of the major characters in a play, film, novel, etc. An antagonist is a person who actively opposes or is hostile towards someone or something, or, art wise, opposes the main character's story arc. Sheldon has been one of the major characters from the beginning, has had many plots centered around him and has initiated some story arcs involving other characters/couple, such as Lenny wedding. So he is a protagonist. I don't think there is an actual antagonist on this show.

 

Your comment about Sheldon not valuing the lives of others has already been refuted in my previous post. It is on the same level of accuracy and maturity as Shenny shippers bashing Leonard and/or Amy. But when Lenny shipper applies the same "logic" to Sheldon, it is usually just glanced over. Sigh. 

[ATOB]

Also, so many here empathise or even cast themselves as Amy or Leonard. Always the humble one who gets the guy/girl. I can't think of anyone who emphasises with the actual guy or girl that is the prize to be had. Does this reflect the nature of those who post on forums generally?

[rachelshamyfan]

Sheldon is my favourite character on the show and I agree that sometimes there is a little too much of him in places where he doesn't need to be.

 For example when Leonard went to the boat and Sheldon joined penny in the car, that was definitely unnessaary and tptb made him super annoying in the car scene where L&P should of had time alone

[Nogravitasatall]

1 minute ago, Mislav said:

By the definition, a protagonist is the leading character or one of the major characters in a play, film, novel, etc. An antagonist is a person who actively opposes or is hostile towards someone or something, or, art wise, opposes the main character's story arc. Sheldon has been one of the major characters from the beginning, has had many plots centered around him and has initiated some story arcs involving other characters/couple, such as Lenny wedding. So he is a protagonist. I don't think there is an actual antagonist on this show.

 

Your comment about Sheldon not valuing the lives of others has already been refuted in my previous post. It is on the same level of accuracy and maturity as Shenny shippers bashing Leonard and/or Amy. But when Lenny shipper applies the same "logic" to Sheldon, it is usually just glanced over. Sigh. 

you are very keen on Sheldon. And good luck to you. If you ever get between him and a lifeboat, I wish you well.

[Mislav]

19 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Lol oh a Sheldon apologist. I dont think Nograv ever accused Sheldon of being a murdere. Just questioning Sheldon motives. Unhealthy? That's an odd comment. Sheldon diddnt save Leonards life intentionally. And besides sure Sheldon has his good points. Sure. But whats that 5 good points vs 1000 times of being an ass to his friends? So what kinda numbers are we talking about here. Can't ignore his ascinine behaviour. His arrogance, his emotionall abuse of his loved ones intentional or not. Simply because he did a few good deads. Is not overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Nov said that Sheldon would basically murder his friend(s) to save himself. He hasn't mentioned other instances of Sheldon being an ass and basically tried portraying him as one of the most selfish types of people ever, who doesn't value the lives of people closest to him. Saving lives and taking care of others, even a few times, is enough evidence to the contrary. Saying that his fans basically like a psychopath and a murderer. If opposing such bs makes me a Sheldon apologist, so be it.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Mislav

[No Regrets]

3 minutes ago, ATOB said:

Also, so many here empathise or even cast themselves as Amy or Leonard. Always the humble one who gets the guy/girl. I can't think of anyone who emphasises with the actual guy or girl that is the prize to be had. Does this reflect the nature of those who post on forums generally?

I can only speak for myself, but I don't even view Penny as a prize to be won and since Penny has been shown to have feelings for Leonard almost as early as Leonard has shown feelings for her, I've never felt the show has shown her that way, either. Leonard has simply been more active because he's way less scared than Penny. I can relate to both Leonard and Penny equally, but for different reasons.

[Nogravitasatall]

Would Sheldon be the Samaritan or the Pharisee?

[Stephen Hawking]

14 hours ago, vonmar said:

Always when having a date night with Sheldon.

But she doesn't wear it, on every occasion she has a date night with Sheldon.

I think it's a really cute outfit, along with the outfit she wore in Herb Garden, while telling Penny she's carrying Sheldon's baby.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Stephen Hawking

[EvilStewie]

4 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Would Sheldon be the Samaritan or the Pharisee?

LOL, depends of the girl!! 

[ATOB]

8 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

I can only speak for myself, but I don't even view Penny as a prize to be won and since Penny has been shown to have feelings for Leonard almost as early as Leonard has shown feelings for her, I've never felt the show has shown her that way, either. Leonard has simply been more active because he's way less scared than Penny. I can relate to both Leonard and Penny equally, but for different reasons.

The whole premise is nerd gets the unobtainable hot girl and, from Season 4, girl's enduring love and patience wins heart of cold unobtainable man.

[April]

As someone who posts mostly in the Shamy thread I can honestly say it's not because it's an echo chamber (we have out fair share of disagreements over there - it's not all rainbows and sunshine!) but because the discussions there are mostly very respectful and engaging - while threads like this turn into a petty pissing contest every couple of pages or so. I'm not interested in you guys fighting like kindergarten kids about some semantic nonsense or going after Sheldon chanting "Smellypooper! Smellypooper!" (figuratively speaking). More interesting discussion, less pointless fighting, please!

Personally, I also prefer it when the show uses its ensemble to its full potential and gives everyone enough room to breathe. There's a lot of great story potential with all characters and I'm always a bit frustrated when the writers let it slide in favour of going after a cheap joke or go down a route we've already seen a couple of times.

As for the appeal of Sheldon: From a writer's standpoint he's an easy choice because he can be whatever the plot needs him to be. Early in the show he was in a more antagonistic role in many plots but not always. In addition he went through a ton of character development over the years that puts him into a more positive light now. And yes, I know a lot of you don't give a toss about that, but that's what the writers did. None of the characters are what they were during their first or second season on the show. And so from a fan's point of view Sheldon's appeal comes from seeing him grow over the years and struggling with the gazillion personal issues the guy has/had and getting to a point where he can finally appreciate the good things in life without putting everyone around him down. He's a jerk with a heart of gold and I guess in the end your enjoyment depends on whether you see him as just a jerk, concentrate on his redeeming sides, or accept him with the good and the bad. Your choice.

[No Regrets]

Just now, ATOB said:

The whole premise is nerd gets the unobtainable hot girl and, from Season 4, girl's enduring love and patience wins heart of cold unobtainable man.

Except Penny hasn't been shown to be unobtainable. When Leonard tells her in 1x05 that things didn't work out between him and Leslie, she walks away and smiles happily. She had feelings for him early on. She agreed to go on a date with him by the end of season 1 and even thought she wasn't good enough for him, which is why she lied on their first date about graduating from community college. IMO they've never portrayed Leonard as someone who had to prove himself to be "worthy" of Penny. 

[3ku11]

I.think Lenny psychologically desired each other from Maternal Capacitance. As they are the opposite of each other parents. I think its standard nerd desires hot girl. But signs early on penny was into Leonard too imo. Remember her and Sheldon listening to Leonard and Leslie doing it lol. Most of the time Leonard has obtained Penny. He kissed her early. While their was an unatainability their. Penny clearly wasn't playing hard to get haha. I think the premise these days is more young student professional.

[ATOB]

22 minutes ago, EvilStewie said:

Its different for everyone I'm sure, is there ONE reason we love someone. Lots of people are smart and have a good sense of humor, so why do they love that one particular person? I can't answer that really, but as far as being desirable I have a theory, and I wouldn't put this out there if it didn't apply to me in some way, You asked and sorry if this is TMI...

I enjoy Yaoi, which are male/male romantic manga.  I have read articles of this, and why its so popular with women.  First I want to get some terms out of the way, cause it will will be easier to understand

Seme, "top" but the term originated from martial arts and is derives from the ichidan verb "to attack"

Uke "bottom" derives from the verb "to receive"

Anyway, there have been a few studies now into this, and what they are finding is that 

A: There is no gender role that a female feels she has been assigned, she can choose based on the character's personality and by the story plot its self, and most find they identify with the Seme.

B: It allows women to be open about there sexuality. Lets be real here, women are judged by how the dress, right? If she is over dressed she is a prude, and under dress... well.. you know where I'm going. Its the same with what you read, If a woman was out waiting for a bus and reading a romance, I bet she  would be approached at least once. Reading a male/male romance that doesn't happen, because there is no box to put her in. Is she straight, kinda... most don't know how to approach it and keep walking.

So after all that I can get to my point, sorry...

What I have found reading into that, is a lot of women are sick the the goody two shoes, vanilla sex role they have been assigned. Look at women's top fantasies, the mysterious stranger, or being ravaged.  

I don't want to say he was unfeeling, but he didn't feel things like most people feel. That mysterious stranger isn't gonna get hurt, it can be that raw unemotional sex. The other thing about Sheldon is he was inexperienced, to quote Bernadette " He seemed intelligent, kind of a loner, maybe a little sexually inexperienced, like I'd have to teach him a thing or two. " 

I think you're hitting a lot of different things there with one character! 

 

 

 

 

You'll find "bottom" is not viewed equally as "top" by the straight or the gay community. Never has been, even going back to Roman times when same-sex relationships were workaday. It's changing with the "power bottom", but slowly.

Also, it's a misconception to view 'bottom' as wholly homosexual or bisexual, again statistically, the percentage of heterosexual couples who partake in this particular pleasure is greater merely due to the greater numbers of heterosexual relationships to homosexual. Disturbingly, anal fissures are one of the most common reasons for college aged girls to attend A&E departments, and this is largely due to the prevalence of the act in contemporary porn. It has become something that every girl has to have in her sexual arsenal or else be accused of being fridgid, a prude, or a lesbian by her partner who views it as the cultural norm.

[EvilStewie]

5 minutes ago, ATOB said:

You'll find "bottom" is not viewed equally as "top" by the straight or the gay community. Never has been, even going back to Roman times when same-sex relationships were workaday. It's changing with the "power bottom", but slowly.

Also, it's a misconception to view 'bottom' as wholly homosexual or bisexual, again statistically, the percentage of heterosexual couples who partake in this particular pleasure is greater merely due to the greater numbers of heterosexual relationships to homosexual. Disturbingly, anal fissures are one of the most common reasons for college aged girls to attend A&E departments, and this is largely due to the prevalence of the act in contemporary porn. It has become something that every girl has to have in her sexual arsenal or else be accused of being fridgid, a prude, or a lesbian by her partner who views it as the cultural norm.

These are Japanese terms, I'm not saying I agree with them.  I think the studies I mentioned I read where Japanese as well, so I used terms they used. I didn't mean to offend anyone by them, just gonna put that out there now. Again Just terms from the yaoi world. 

Edited January 30, 2016 by EvilStewie

[ATOB]

26 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

Except Penny hasn't been shown to be unobtainable. When Leonard tells her in 1x05 that things didn't work out between him and Leslie, she walks away and smiles happily. She had feelings for him early on. She agreed to go on a date with him by the end of season 1 and even thought she wasn't good enough for him, which is why she lied on their first date about graduating from community college. IMO they've never portrayed Leonard as someone who had to prove himself to be "worthy" of Penny. 

Yes. But that was the premise. Be a bit sad if after 9 seasons Leonard was still pining for something he could never have. How do you stretch that arc for hundreds of episodes without one character coming off as pathetic and wretched and another as a cold bitch?

Edited January 30, 2016 by ATOB
Many Cho sabotage

[No Regrets]

1 minute ago, ATOB said:

Yes. But that was the premise. Be a bit sad if after 9 seasons Leonard was still pining for something he could never have. How do you stretch that arc for hundreds of episodes without one character coming off as pathetic and wretched and another as a cold bitch?

That I can agree with.

[ATOB]

7 minutes ago, EvilStewie said:

These are Japanese terms, I'm not saying I agree with them.  I think the studies I mentioned I read where Japanese as well, so I used terms they used. I didn't mean to offend anyone by them, just gonna put that out there now. Again Just terms from the yaoi world. 

Do you think yaoi made them up? "Top" and "Bottom" are not Japanese terms. They come from the homosexual community. They mean the same thing.

8 minutes ago, ATOB said:

Yes. But that was the premise. Be a bit sad if after 9 seasons Leonard was still pining for something he could never have. How do you stretch that arc for hundreds of episodes without one character coming off as pathetic and wretched and another as a cold bitch?

 

9 minutes ago, ATOB said:

Yes. But that was the premise. Be a bit sad if after 9 seasons Leonard was still pining for something he could never have. How do you stretch that arc for hundreds of episodes without one character coming off as pathetic and wretched and another as a cold bitch?

Sorry, feckin quote option!

I wanted to add that the whole Mandy Cho boat kiss was Leonard sabotaging because he didn't feel worthy of Penny.

[EvilStewie]

1 minute ago, ATOB said:

Do you think yaoi made them up? "Top" and "Bottom" are not Japanese terms. They come from the homosexual community. They mean the same thing.

OK! ATOB needs to beat me in a debate so I admit to adding top and bottom to my post, so you would understand the association to the Japanese verbs to attack and to receive *goes sits in sin closet* 

[ATOB]

5 minutes ago, EvilStewie said:

OK! ATOB needs to beat me in a debate so I admit to adding top and bottom to my post, so you would understand the association to the Japanese verbs to attack and to receive *goes sits in sin closet* 

Attack?

What the hell are you reading?

Top = Giver. Bottom = Receiver.

Attack really doesn't have good connotations in English.

So, is Japanese your first language?