[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9

[Tensor]

meka made a comment about it, saying she doubted vasu was in the writers room (because of some assumptions he was making) and Tensor insisted on trying to make a literal point out of it, as if the phrase was equal to using the phrase "I doubt..." in a different context.

Exactly, as Meka likes to make a literal point of demanding people provide how they absolutely know something.   I just turned it around on her.  And she still hasn't provided any kind of absolute proof.  

[nickelette424]

Just to clarify what Sheldon knew.   When he came over to Penny's with tea he said that Leonard just told him what happened and so he brought her a hot beverage.   Then he said something about being sorry and that he thought he raised Leonard better than that.   Then Penny says her name for the first time,  Mandy.   Sheldon responds, "Mandy Chow?"  Penny confirms, and then that's when Sheldon makes the comment about her being attractive and brilliant. 

Hope that clears things up a bit. 

Edited August 14, 2015 by nickelette424

[Tensor]

I havent read all the posts before this but were there actual speculations that vasu of all people worked for the show??? I just wanna laugh at this big weird joke.

 It was a case of using reductio ad absurdum,  something meka likes to use to try to show someone's feelings and opinions on what we know, could be wrong because of what we don't know.   She likes to ask people how they absolutely know something, then uses scenarios that could be wrong to show that those other posters ideas could be wrong.   

[meka3000]

Exactly, as Meka likes to make a literal point of demanding people provide how they absolutely know something.   I just turned it around on her.  And she still hasn't provided any kind of absolute proof.  

Her? Your making alot of assumptions that are factually wrong.

The reason I'm not trying to prove that, is that I can't prove it anymore than you can.  And that at the end of the day it's a really ridiculous point to be continuing to bring up.  As phanta pointed out, "I doubt" is not the absolute same thing as "I know".

[Strawberry PopTart Fan]

Meka's profile info says  not.

[Tensor]

@Tensor, I think we need a new thread, maybe called 'Megaphonic3000‘.
Opposing comments will not be allowed in this thread, yeah I know….LOL

Actually veejay, we have  thread like that.  It's called Gripes and Moans: Season 9.   Posters are allowed to make a specific complaint about season 9, once.  Along with support for why they feel that way (although support is not required).  There is not discussion allowed (pro or con), not is debate allowed. Specific Rules are in the first post.

Her? Your making alot of assumptions that are factually wrong.

The reason I'm not trying to prove that, is that I can't prove it anymore than you can.  And that at the end of the day it's a really ridiculous point to be continuing to bring up.  As phanta pointed out, "I doubt" is not the absolute same thing as "I know".

My apologies.  I had just answered Phanta and she had used the term "she" for you.  Can I expect to see you jump all over phanta now?

No, "I doubt" is not the same as "I know".  But me asking the question about how you know about vasu IS the same as you asking other posters how they know the plot line.   Notice, that the terms "I know" are used in both, neither has "I doubt". In the above, you, as phanta did, are comparing your answer to a question, not comparing the question, with the other question itself.  

[Chrismo]

 Sheldon responds, "Mandy Chow?"  Penny confirms, and then that's when Sheldon makes the comment about her being attractive and brilliant. 

Hope that clears things up a bit. 

Maybe Mandy is single and if things with Amy don't work out???

[veejay]

The gist of the conversation is the same, from Leonard's POV.  He's afraid that going off on the ship might screw things up between him and Penny (as Sheldon had suggested).  Things are going well, he's afraid that in leaving for 4 months it will damage the progress they've been making.

Penny jokes about it, but that doesn't mean that Leonard doesn't realize that he may have screwed things up, so he keeps his mouth shut.

Maybe,
 

....it would have made that conversation a self-fulfilling prophecy.

but this is only your assumption, not mine.

Actually veejay, we have  thread like that.  It's called Gripes and Moans: Season 9.   Posters are allowed to make a specific complaint about season 9, once.  Along with support for why they feel that way (although support is not required).  There is not discussion allowed (pro or con), not is debate allowed. Specific Rules are in the first post.

Oh, as I said, I know... my bad.

[Tensor]

Oh, as I said, I know... my bad.

Ahhhh, i thought you were being sarcastic, about the need for such a topic.  My fault.

[phantagrae]

Maybe,
 

but this is only your assumption, not mine.

What I'm saying is it's a possible explanation for his silence on the matter.  Obviously none of us KNOWS the real reason, but just jumping to the conclusion that it's a retcon or character assasination or whatever.  What I'm trying to provide is a logical inference based on how Leonard felt about what might happen if he went on the trip.

So, if he was afraid of screwing up the relationship simply by leaving for 4 months, how much more would he have feared he had screwed it up by kissing this girl?  If he had confessed right away, how would Penny take it?  So he keeps it to himself until he feels he can no longer do so.

That may not be the explanation they choose to go with on the show, but to me it's one way that it makes sense and doesn't contradict who Leonard is.

[veejay]

What I'm saying is it's a possible explanation for his silence on the matter.  Obviously none of us KNOWS the real reason, but just jumping to the conclusion that it's a retcon or character assasination or whatever.  What I'm trying to provide is a logical inference based on how Leonard felt about what might happen if he went on the trip.

So, if he was afraid of screwing up the relationship simply by leaving for 4 months, how much more would he have feared he had screwed it up by kissing this girl?  If he had confessed right away, how would Penny take it?  So he keeps it to himself until he feels he can no longer do so.

That may not be the explanation they choose to go with on the show, but to me it's one way that it makes sense and doesn't contradict who Leonard is.

Oh, I know you try. But I'm not Meka........

Ahhhh, i thought you were being sarcastic, about the need for such a topic.  My fault.

Oh, I'm not being sarcastic in this case. A little bit ironic maybe.....

@Tensor

OT: WTH. I'm a little disappointed with the new CMS here.

[phantagrae]

Actually veejay, we have  thread like that.  It's called Gripes and Moans: Season 9.   Posters are allowed to make a specific complaint about season 9, once.  Along with support for why they feel that way (although support is not required).  There is not discussion allowed (pro or con), not is debate allowed. Specific Rules are in the first post.

My apologies.  I had just answered Phanta and she had used the term "she" for you.  Can I expect to see you jump all over phanta now?

No, "I doubt" is not the same as "I know".  But me asking the question about how you know about vasu IS the same as you asking other posters how they know the plot line.   Notice, that the terms "I know" are used in both, neither has "I doubt". In the above, you, as phanta did, are comparing your answer to a question, not comparing the question, with the other question itself.  

It's not the same, IMO, because we all know for a fact vasu is NOT on the writer's team, so using the phrase "I doubt" in that situation is a rhetorical device, not a literal one.

Talking about the plot line falls under a different category because we're all talking about speculation and what is likely or unlikely to happen, based on the TR.  I don't think meka ever said that he (ahem) knows anymore than anyone else, but was saying that vasu has nothing on which to base his declaration that it makes no sense is simply the truth.

You have to know the truth in this aspect of the conversation.  I think you just love your nit-picking analysis mode, even if you're picking at the wrong nits.

[Nogravitasatall]

I can't wait to get those deeper details where Penny admits to Leonard that she slept with Sheldon.  And then everything is all better between them. And Sheldon, Penny, and Leonard move in together.

hey, that's the wrong ménage¹. Way to kill a daydream², Tensor.   ³

^{1. Not telling}

^{2. Kidding}

^{3. It's a Hail Mary pass for a stretched premise, and they hope it works long enough to keep eyeballs on screens until people forget about the obvious manipulation of the history.}

Edited August 14, 2015 by Nogravitasatall
Just faffing on

[kerrycec03]

ok so Mayim's latest IG pic...Where is she?  Its looks like comics on the wall, but not sure....any takers?  Doesn't look like the new comic book store but to be fair I don't know it as well as the old one...

[Tensor]

It's not the same, IMO, because we all know for a fact vasu is NOT on the writer's team, so using the phrase "I doubt" in that situation is a rhetorical device, not a literal one.

Talking about the plot line falls under a different category because we're all talking about speculation and what is likely or unlikely to happen, based on the TR.  I don't think meka ever said that he (ahem) knows anymore than anyone else, but was saying that vasu has nothing on which to base his declaration that it makes no sense is simply the truth.

You have to know the truth in this aspect of the conversation.  I think you just love your nit-picking analysis mode, even if you're picking at the wrong nits.

It is the same.  All you have to do is provide absolute proof that vasu is not on the writers team.  Can you?  After all, I can't prove you're not on the team either.  

No, he believed that vasu had nothing to base it on.  But, that's from looking at it from his own point of view.  So to call it presumptuous is implying he has some sort of higher knowledge about it that vasu doesn't.   Doing that is close enough to claiming he knows more than the person he is correcting.    

And neither you or meka know the absolute truth any more than any of us do, or at least you haven't provided anything more than stating "I don't believe it".  I think you just love to keep telling how others that don't agree with you are simply wrong because they obviously aren't looking at it the same, in what looks like a condescending way.  

 

[meka3000]

It doesn't have to make sense to me.  It has to make sense, individually, to each person watching it.  

So you, yourself don't fall under the category of each person? 

Also has to make sense individually to each person?  Why? Your never going to get each & every person in your audience to see what you want to convey.  Some viewers are never going to want to read between the lines, I'd say it's more important to make sure that majority of your audience is capable of interpreting what you want them to see.

For example newer fans might not get why Penny was emotional about saying I love you for the first time to Leonard in season 6. But the longtime fans that have been watching since season 3 and before then, are more than likely to understand why saying "I love you" for Penny was as hard as it was for her.  So should the writers have to spoon feed the newer fans this information in THAT VERY EPISODE, JUST BECAUSE they don't know about the nuances of the characters?  I don't know about you, but I hate television shows that talk down to their audiences and don't give them enough credit to believe that they are smart enough to read between the lines.

My apologies.  I had just answered Phanta and she had used the term "she" for you.  Can I expect to see you jump all over phanta now?

No, because unlike Phanta, YOU respond to my posts far more than that person does, to the point that I feel you knowing that I'm a male, not a female should be second nature to you by now.

[Tensor]

So you, yourself don't fall under the category of each person? 

Also has to make sense individually to each person?  Why? Your never going to get each & every person in your audience to see what you want to convey.  Some viewers are never going to want to read between the lines, I'd say it's more important to make sure that majority of your audience is capable of interpreting what you want them to see.

For example newer fans might not get why Penny was emotional about saying I love you for the first time to Leonard in season 6. But the longtime fans that have been watching since season 3 and before then, are more than likely to understand why saying "I love you" for Penny was as hard as it was for her.  So should the writers have to spoon feed the newer fans this information in THAT VERY EPISODE, JUST BECAUSE they don't know about the nuances of the characters?  I don't know about you, but I hate television shows that talk down to their audiences and don't give them enough credit to believe that they are smart enough to read between the lines.

As usually, you took it out of context.  You said vasu's view didn't make sense to you.  It doesn't have to make sense to you.  If you want to interpret it one way and state how you interpret it, there is nothing wrong with that.  If vasu wants to view it a different way, that's fine too.  Unless someone can point out a factual error in an interpretation, it's not anyone's place to tell others how they should interpret it, that is just rude.   Especially if someone is making up unknown scenarios to try to validate their telling or implying someone they're wrong. 

Edited August 14, 2015 by Tensor

[bbtfan07]

Mayim's picture is definitely on the new comic book store set. why does she think she is on the dark side?

 

[Tensor]

She said, "feels good to be this close to the dark side, sometimes." Not that she is on the dark side. 

[phantagrae]

This quote function sucks...just saying.

Mayim's picture is definitely on the new comic book store set. why does she think she is on the dark side?

 

She's talking about standing next to the Darth Vader figure.

As usually, you took it out of context.  You said vasu's view didn't make sense to you.  It doesn't have to make sense to you.  If you want to interpret it one way and state how you interpret it, there is nothing wrong with that.  If vasu wants to view it a different way, that's fine too.  Unless someone can point out a factual error in an interpretation, it's not anyone's place to tell others how they should interpret it, that is just rude.   Especially if someone is making up unknown scenarios to try to validate their telling or implying someone they're wrong.

So do you agree with vasu's interpretation, or do you just get off on picking apart posts you don't even really have a stake in?

I could see it if you were defending vasu's point of view, or if you actually believed he worked in the writers room, but since I DOUBT either is true, what the hell point are you trying to make?

Was there something you objected to in terms of the story line or the possible outcome that meka put forth?

I swear, sometimes you seem to want to argue just to argue over semantics that in the long run have little bearing on the actual ideas being put forth.

Yes, vasu thinks it doesn't make sense, but as meka pointed out, vasu is making that judgement based on very little information, which was what the original exchange was about--that one can't draw a firm conclusion (it makes zero sense) when we don't yet know the rest of the story.

If you think that it's possible to draw a firm conclusion based on what little we know so far, then by all means, argue that point.  But arguing about whether or not one can know if vasu is in the writers room?  Really?  That point was not even germaine to the real point--that no one can tell what's going to make sense until it all plays out.

Edited August 14, 2015 by phantagrae

[nibbler747]

Just to clarify what Sheldon knew.   When he came over to Penny's with tea he said that Leonard just told him what happened and so he brought her a hot beverage.   Then he said something about being sorry and that he thought he raised Leonard better than that.   Then Penny says her name for the first time,  Mandy.   Sheldon responds, "Mandy Chow?"  Penny confirms, and then that's when Sheldon makes the comment about her being attractive and brilliant. 

Hope that clears things up a bit. 

Sheldon doesn't usually comment on people being attractive.  That is a really weird comment for him.   Uuugh...this storyline is causing me stress. = (

[Chrismo]

Sheldon doesn't usually comment on people being attractive.  That is a really weird comment for him.   Uuugh...this storyline is causing me stress. = (

Has he ever called Amy attractive? I know in season 1 he called Penny attractive.

[Luna18]

Sheldon doesn't usually comment on people being attractive.  That is a really weird comment for him.   Uuugh...this storyline is causing me stress. = (

Not really, he's commented on the attractiveness of Penny and Lalita Gupta in the past. Also Sheldon doesn't really care for looks but rather intelligence so if anything you should worry about him finding her brilliant. Sigh Im getting quite tired of repeating this...

[wowbagger]

Has he ever called Amy attractive? I know in season 1 he called Penny attractive.

He called Amy pretty during the Prom episode, if I recall correctly. 'So pretty it gave me a panic attack'. or words to that effect.

[Chrismo]

Not really, he's commented on the attractiveness of Penny and Lalita Gupta in the past. Also Sheldon doesn't really care for looks but rather intelligence so if anything you should worry about him finding her brilliant. Sigh Im getting quite tired of repeating this...

So in other words Sheldon was just trying to cause more trouble for Lenny for the fun of it.