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[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9


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1 minute ago, No Regrets said:

I think it's a sweet hug. I've hugged many male friends like that, especially when they felt sad about something. I just can't bring myself to see Shenny as a threat to Lenny, not even a little.

Besides Penny choose Leonard. Out of everyone. 

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I'm just wondering why so many seem to feel threatened by Penny hugging a friend she's known for 9 years.

I've tried imagining romantic Shenny many times and each time it gives me a good chuckle. Neither Penny nor Sheldon have what the other desires in a potential partner. They've grown to accept each other's flaws and like them, but after 9 years that's kinda what should happen between friends. Otherwise they would've walked away a long time ago.

Not to mention that the writers (!) continuously portray Sheldon as Penny's brother, her son, even her dog. And lord knows none of these roles are in any way sexual. That role is reserved for Amy.

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2 hours ago, Judith said:

All three of them are to blame. Everyone is responsible for their own actions...Sheldon because he has been shown in the past to (sometimes) be aware of what he does and Leonard and Penny because it's just weird that they haven't moved across the hall now that there's no reason not to and keep putting up with so many things.

Saying that it's the writers' fault...well, who else's would it be?

Breaking the premise might be like leaving Gilligan's island. Both shows are defined by geography. If Leonard moves across the hall, what's to keep him from moving across town. A capable Sheldon isn't someone who needs the other two leads. Show over, like if the castaways were rescued.

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9 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Breaking the premise might be like leaving Gilligan's island. Both shows are defined by geography. If Leonard moves across the hall, what's to keep him from moving across town. A capable Sheldon isn't someone who needs the other two leads. Show over, like if the castaways were rescued.

The castaway all live in seperate huts on the same island if you take that analogy across the hall is not off the island just in their own hut

Edited by JE7

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1 hour ago, JE7 said:

The castaway all live in seperate huts on the same island if you take that analogy across the hall is not off the island just in their own hut

True, but if they can go that far then they can go further. The Howells couldn't. Anyway I'd be surprised/delighted if something like them building their own hut occurred. However, I'm not breaking into a sweat hoping. :) 

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No not anytime soon to quote molerro, as a Atlanta Braves and Falcons fan from childhood on I am very familiar with the phrase "maybe next year" :icon_rolleyes:

Edited by JE7

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loved the episode tonight! Nothing about it disappointed. Howard and Bernie were cute and Howard's freak out was perfectly reasonable to me, in the confines of a 20 minute show. He summed up the fears and excitement and the worry of facing the reality of bringing a first born into the world. I loved him fretting about whether his son, or worse yet his daughter, would have his nose and look like him! I had similar reservations as a new dad, you just really get freaked out that your kid will inherit all of your shortcomings! Bernie was equally cute as a newly pregnant gal who pouts about missing out on the things she likes doing because of her condition, I remember my wife having similar feelings with wine and the hot tub lol...

Loved how excited the gals were, very cute. I also loved how they both reacted to Bernie's revelation of where the conception took place! Amy looked horrified and Penny grabs her ears and let's out a shriek lol. Perfect. I liked a little glimpse of the quirky Amy when she gets a little annoyed that Bernie shot down everything they suggested for celebrating and said Bernie should maybe get a new doctor, and then followed up with "what, the doctor said you couldn't laugh too?" or something along those lines!

I liked the banter between the guys in 4A before Howard walks in to deliver the news. Leonard laughs when Sheldon tells Raj to let them know when he wins a Nobel prize for boysenberry, score one for Sheldon! And when Leonard tells Sheldon that the vasectomy wasn't his worse idea, I think that was Leonard scoring another one for Sheldon in the humor department. 

The Tiki lounge scene with the guys toasting was fun! I don't care what anyone says, drunk Sheldon is THE BEST! I howled when he went to the kitchen to use the bathroom and on his way there stumbles towards a booth to wave and say "hey there" comically. Leonard laughing with Sheldon as he holds an umbrella over his head, just enjoyed seeing everyone yucking it up...Raj stating Sheldon was smarter than the est of them even when drunk!

I happen to enjoy karaoke myself, and that scene had the wife and I in stitches. My wife, who is unspoiled, totally called Howard's last song as being "She's Having My Baby", and as soon as Howard started singing it she yelled "I knew it!!" lol...loved happy go lucky Sheldon kicking back and enjoying the show while Howard looked embarrassed for Raj and Leonard. Sheldon raising a glass to Penny and Amy crooning to Bernie was hilarious. The ladies, especially Amy, really looked like they were having fun! 

Sobered up Sheldon (at least for a short burst) when Amy tells him that Howardette conceived in his bed was classic! Why Amy chose to break it to him right there is beyond me, but I'm assuming the writers wanted the laugh (and they got it from US)...Amy glancing at Sheldon during Howard's dedication to his pregnant wife had me wondering what that was all about--she was ways excited about Bernie's announcement and now "the glance", hmmmm....

sorry about gushing on this episode but it's the kind of simple and happy episode I've been waiting for, and following on the heels of a FWF episode, yess!

 

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10 hours ago, Tensor said:

You mean keeping the actual unaltered data separate from the data they gave Sheldon?

As far as I remember, they manipulated his data pretty much from a few weeks in. If they hadn't done that, Sheldon might have made different decisions on how to proceed with the experiment on location (although we don't really know what they were doing exactly, so if they were just sitting next to the equipment, it might not have made a difference). All that aside, while I'm just a lowly humanities student, I do have friends who work in laboratories and if any of them lied to their boss about the data of an ongoing experiment, even temporarily, they would be kicked out no questions asked, and rightfully so.

However, as I said, this is a comedy so I've never really taken this episode to heart. They wanted an opportunity to play up how annoying and arrogant Sheldon is, so this worked fine as a vehicle.

Edit: Now that I think about it, how did they have "original" data if they tricked the equipment with the can opener? Did they have two sets of equipment? If so, why didn't Sheldon notice the discrepancy? And so on, I guess. Now I'm thinking too hard about it, haha.

Edited by A.D.A.

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22 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

loved the episode tonight! Nothing about it disappointed. Howard and Bernie were cute and Howard's freak out was perfectly reasonable to me, in the confines of a 20 minute show. He summed up the fears and excitement and the worry of facing the reality of bringing a first born into the world. I loved him fretting about whether his son, or worse yet his daughter, would have his nose and look like him! I had similar reservations as a new dad, you just really get freaked out that your kid will inherit all of your shortcomings! Bernie was equally cute as a newly pregnant gal who pouts about missing out on the things she likes doing because of her condition, I remember my wife having similar feelings with wine and the hot tub lol...

Loved how excited the gals were, very cute. I also loved how they both reacted to Bernie's revelation of where the conception took place! Amy looked horrified and Penny grabs her ears and let's out a shriek lol. Perfect. I liked a little glimpse of the quirky Amy when she gets a little annoyed that Bernie shot down everything they suggested for celebrating and said Bernie should maybe get a new doctor, and then followed up with "what, the doctor said you couldn't laugh too?" or something along those lines!

I liked the banter between the guys in 4A before Howard walks in to deliver the news. Leonard laughs when Sheldon tells Raj to let them know when he wins a Nobel prize for boysenberry, score one for Sheldon! And when Leonard tells Sheldon that the vasectomy wasn't his worse idea, I think that was Leonard scoring another one for Sheldon in the humor department. 

The Tiki lounge scene with the guys toasting was fun! I don't care what anyone says, drunk Sheldon is THE BEST! I howled when he went to the kitchen to use the bathroom and on his way there stumbles towards a booth to wave and say "hey there" comically. Leonard laughing with Sheldon as he holds an umbrella over his head, just enjoyed seeing everyone yucking it up...Raj stating Sheldon was smarter than the est of them even when drunk!

I happen to enjoy karaoke myself, and that scene had the wife and I in stitches. My wife, who is unspoiled, totally called Howard's last song as being "She's Having My Baby", and as soon as Howard started singing it she yelled "I knew it!!" lol...loved happy go lucky Sheldon kicking back and enjoying the show while Howard looked embarrassed for Raj and Leonard. Sheldon raising a glass to Penny and Amy crooning to Bernie was hilarious. The ladies, especially Amy, really looked like they were having fun! 

Sobered up Sheldon (at least for a short burst) when Amy tells him that Howardette conceived in his bed was classic! Why Amy chose to break it to him right there is beyond me, but I'm assuming the writers wanted the laugh (and they got it from US)...Amy glancing at Sheldon during Howard's dedication to his pregnant wife had me wondering what that was all about--she was ways excited about Bernie's announcement and now "the glance", hmmmm....

sorry about gushing on this episode but it's the kind of simple and happy episode I've been waiting for, and following on the heels of a FWF episode, yess!

 

Yes to all this.   Right now,  could change,  I think my favorite exchange is as follows:

Sheldon:  "who wants to see me beat up the bartender? "

Leonard:  "I'd enjoy seeing that. "

Sheldon:  "Nah.  She's a good kid."

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32 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

True, but if they can go that far then they can go further. The Howells couldn't. Anyway I'd be surprised/delighted if something like them building their own hut occurred. However, I'm not breaking into a sweat hoping. :) 

THEY could tent in the halway.and pretend itss a hut lol

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6 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Yes,  but that he has changed and how - other than magically - is interesting. He is very specific. Given that people die for their orientation, so it is understood it is not whimsical, his change requires some explanation. "Amy wore him down" is not really applicable as a mechanism. If I can reconcile the evidence with an actual process then isn't my experience of the show more real, for me?

If "Amy boiled  over the cockles of his heart because of the power of love" works for most, then fine. Call me an outlier. However, we certainly know he doesn't stand to attention for anyone but Amy. And that's pretty special, in many senses. I can accept that specificity if there is a mechanism - because it has been demonstrated in various instances that he hasnt responded to opportunity elsewhere. But if someone was to say he was magically transformed into a pants man I'd be very sceptical. So Penny is safe. In that sense. Maybe not in every sense. Certainly not in the "escaping from annoyance" sense. :)

I'm not sure what kind of "mechanism" you're looking for or why you would need one in the first place. Life is pretty messy and figuring yourself out is an ongoing process - even for those like Sheldon who think they know it all. When he met Amy it threw a wrench into the workings of his life in that he was never so intrigued by anyone else before and we've seen from pretty early on how intensely attached he was to her (*cough*25cats*cough*). We also saw time and again that he was willingly engaging and even initiating physical contact, there were lines that indicated that yes, he has urges and was just suppressing them, and that yes, he was thinking about having coitus with Amy one day, up to and including admitting that he's working on his intimacy issues and initiating a round of theoretical sex, D&D style. So in the end what happened in Opening Night was not a sudden change but the culmination of a several year long gradual development - not because Amy wore him down or some such nonsense (because she really didn't do that beyond occasionally voicing her hope for something more) but because -gasp!- he actually wanted it himself.

All that, of course, doesn't make much sense if you want to stuff him into the asexuality box and demand that he stay put because that's when you have to start making all sorts of uncomfortable mental gymnastics to justify it. His story with Amy has been that he wasn't interested in any of this relationship nonsense until he met the right person which is a narrative that doesn't work for asexuality. That label doesn't make much sense for an adult who doesn't embrace it himself as an orientation and who's willingly initiating sexual activities. If you have to slap a label on him demi-sexual would fit him just fine because the fact that he needed to build such a strong relationship bond with Amy to get to this point pretty much fits the definition.

Like you I also think that he's pretty much solely focused on Amy with that pursuit and he couldn't care less about any other person. He's not the kinda guy I can see cheating, or having one night stands or whatever.

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2 hours ago, April said:

I'm not sure what kind of "mechanism" you're looking for or why you would need one in the first place. Life is pretty messy and figuring yourself out is an ongoing process - even for those like Sheldon who think they know it all. When he met Amy it threw a wrench into the workings of his life in that he was never so intrigued by anyone else before and we've seen from pretty early on how intensely attached he was to her (*cough*25cats*cough*). We also saw time and again that he was willingly engaging and even initiating physical contact, there were lines that indicated that yes, he has urges and was just suppressing them, and that yes, he was thinking about having coitus with Amy one day, up to and including admitting that he's working on his intimacy issues and initiating a round of theoretical sex, D&D style. So in the end what happened in Opening Night was not a sudden change but the culmination of a several year long gradual development - not because Amy wore him down or some such nonsense (because she really didn't do that beyond occasionally voicing her hope for something more) but because -gasp!- he actually wanted it himself.

All that, of course, doesn't make much sense if you want to stuff him into the asexuality box and demand that he stay put because that's when you have to start making all sorts of uncomfortable mental gymnastics to justify it. His story with Amy has been that he wasn't interested in any of this relationship nonsense until he met the right person which is a narrative that doesn't work for asexuality. That label doesn't make much sense for an adult who doesn't embrace it himself as an orientation and who's willingly initiating sexual activities. If you have to slap a label on him demi-sexual would fit him just fine because the fact that he needed to build such a strong relationship bond with Amy to get to this point pretty much fits the definition.

Like you I also think that he's pretty much solely focused on Amy with that pursuit and he couldn't care less about any other person. He's not the kinda guy I can see cheating, or having one night stands or whatever.

Um... Ok.  I have already conceded that he is not asexual. Amy and the bed hair was evidence that he made a robust effort. Demisexual makes sense to me because he Is so disinterested in others. "Life is messy" is not a theory, it's a blanket p truism that doesn't explain anything much. And if people want to knowingly have one night stands then good luck to them and where did that come from. :) 

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2 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Um... Ok.  I have already conceded that he is not asexual. Amy and the bed hair was evidence that he made a robust effort. Demisexual makes sense to me because he Is so disinterested in others. "Life is messy" is not a theory, it's a blanket p truism that doesn't explain anything much. And if people want to knowingly have one night stands then good luck to them and where did that come from. :) 

Oh I wasn't trying to insinuate that you were saying that - I meant the general "you" not "you personally". And I didn't wanna go too much into the "life is messy" aspect as it would be way off topic. The short version is simply that I've seen and met people from all ways of life in pretty much every axis of the spectrum and the idea of someone going from not having any interest in relationships, to meeting someone special, to ending up in a loving and sexually active relationship is the least confusing of changes I can imagine.

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6 hours ago, vonmar said:

He walked in on Lenard and Priya in the shower also. I seems that no one locks the bathroom door behind them in 4A.

No one's fault...simply my thought was why not lock the freaking door? That's all.

Sheldon didn't know Priya was in there till Leonard told him, then he left.  With Penny he walked in on her intentionally, without a second thought.  I wonder how anyone would feel if someone of the opposite sex walked in on their spouse while he/ she was nude in the shower, then wouldn't leave when requested.

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4 minutes ago, April said:

Oh I wasn't trying to insinuate that you were saying that - I meant the general "you" not "you personally". And I didn't wanna go too much into the "life is messy" aspect as it would be way off topic. The short version is simply that I've seen and met people from all ways of life in pretty much every axis of the spectrum and the idea of someone going from not having any interest in relationships, to meeting someone special, to ending up in a loving and sexually active relationship is the least confusing of changes I can imagine.

Hey, I'm all for there being more love in the world. Consenting adults, full stop, period, end of argument.

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33 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Hey, I'm all for there being more love in the world. Consenting adults, full stop, period, end of argument.

I'd never heard of asexual as an orientation until I read about it here a few weeks ago. We know Sheldon was hoping to get married, and to a woman with whom he'd discussed having children and who had made it clear she wanted a physical relationship at that. There's no way he wouldn't have been thinking he was ready for coitus on an ongoing basis. The breakup might have set him back a bit.

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1 minute ago, Einstein Von Brainstorm said:

Can't believe this from last nights episode! 

The audacity of two married people hugging  ... in front of their spouses too! 

After all the times Howard tried to get into Pennys pants too! :no: 

#HennyForLife

Great. As if we didn't have enough threats to worry about. :icon_wink:

Honestly, though.

I've tried to imagine romantic Shenny many times and each time it gave me a good chuckle. No offense to their fans or anything since they're obviously entitled to their opinions, but I just cannot see it. All I see is two people who - after 9 years of friendship - have finally managed to accept each others flaws and quirks and like each other as people, which... is kinda what should happen after 9 years of friendship, no? If they still pissed each other off like they did in S1-3, that wouldn't make much sense and it'd make me wonder why they would bother hanging out in the first place. I think their relationship is very simple, because they expect absolutely nothing from one another. 

The one thing that makes the Shenny ship sink to the bottom of the ocean for me, is the simple fact that both Penny and Sheldon have said that they see each other as brother and sister. And Sheldon is Penny (and Leonard's) dog, too, apparently. It doesn't get more asexual than that.

One might argue that both Penny and Bernadette have - out of frustration - referred to themselves as moms to their husbands, but the very, very big difference is: they don't like filling those roles. They wanna be Leonard and Howard's wives, not mothers. Penny was insanely frustrated when she felt Leonard was pushing her into the mom role. In contrast, Penny and Sheldon are comfortable viewing each other as brother and sister. They like the roles they play in each other's lives and they sure as hell don't mind that it's not a sexual relationship. They simply don't want it. They already have life partners for that and much, much more.

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