[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9

[JE7]

13 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

The man has an IQ of 187. He has had a lot of growth. Trust me he knows what he is doing. It's not a surprise he is been excused by posters. I stand by my opinion.

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So you think the writers had him intentionally try to see Penny's bits?

Because Sheldon can't do anything on his own because he is just a fictional charecter doing as TPTB make him

[SRAM]

44 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

Sheldon has seen Penny naked before.

Seriously you really want to go there?  So it is okay for ex-boyfriends or just friends to see a married woman naked anytime they want because at one time, when they were both single, they saw her naked before.  Come on, you don't agree with that, do you?

[nibbler747]

I think they were just going with the socially unaware gag rather than a creeper gag. They often have Sheldon do or say the wrong things in social situations.  I think that's the joke the were going for and not this invasive creeper some people took it as.

[Tonstar17]

The man has an IQ of 187. He has had a lot of growth. Trust me he knows what he is doing. It's not a surprise he is been excused by posters. I stand by my opinion.

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So you think the writers had him intentionally try to see Penny's bits?

Because Sheldon can't do anything on his own because he is just a fictional charecter doing as TPTB make him

No the joke about him not knowing what he is doing is sooooooooo old. They don't need to go there anymore now penny is married. But i guess recycling old joke when trying to convince the audience that Sheldon has learned so much is just for laughs because he hasn't.

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[Nogravitasatall]

3 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

Yikes! Disagree.  When you are showering, you expect a modicum of privacy.  When Penny took the keyboard away from him, it was in the wee small hours of the morning.  He was disturbing the sleep of two people in an unreasonable manner.  By sharing his music with others, he gave up his expectation of privacy (all my very, very humble opinion).  Now I will give you the face drawing as an invasion of Dr. Cooper's personal space, but I found it hilarious. Again, my personal opinion, I realize many, many others will disagree with me.

Was that the periodic table shower curtain? How has that not gotten any mildew after all this time? Pretty amazing. If I had a curtained shower I would get that one, but the fashion now is clear glass and locking doors. And after nine years Penny should not be startled by the man who thinks "social conventions are stupid", she should be braced. Then again his capabilities fall into the unknown unknowns - he did have a tuba - so hard to predict what comes next.

and as to Penny and Sheldon being other than comic together - she's married now. What are people hoping for, for goodness sake. Think how funny that moment would be for real. Golly.

[JE7]

30 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

4 minutes ago, nibbler747 said:

I think they were just going with the socially unaware gag rather than a creeper gag. They often have Sheldon do or say the wrong things in social situations.  I think that's the joke the were going for and not this invasive creeper some people took it as.

I agree but they missed funny and hit creepy they do it all the time with Stuart and it makes me wonder about their sense of humor

 

Edited February 19, 2016 by JE7
Upgrade my ass :(

[Tensor]

1 hour ago, FortCozyMcBlanket said:

My take on Sheldon barging in on Penny showering is that was the writers playing the 'Sheldon is a child with no boundaries' card yet again. So of course I consider the situation "his fault" but we're supposed to see it like when a little kid who doesn't know better (or who does, but is curious lol) walks in on their mommy or daddy in the bathroom. (Cats do this too lol) But yeah I think we're supposed to look past the fact that a grown man is walking in on his roommate's wife showering and just laugh because "haha Sheldon is just like a little kid walking in on his parents in the bathroom!" I know I'm not alone in feeling annoyed by this tired formula. 

I can no longer see Sheldon as "a little kid".   He lost that back in 6.08.  When the writers gave him the comment  "She could think she's a chicken pecking for corn" with the movement of head, they removed all doubt.  

[hokie3457]

4 minutes ago, Tensor said:

I can no longer see Sheldon as "a little kid".   He lost that back in 6.08.  When the writers gave him the comment  "She could think she's a chicken pecking for corn" with the movement of head, they removed all doubt.  

Even more so, as he has been intimate with his significant other.  How would he feel if Raj wondered into the bathroom when Amy was showering????

[Tensor]

29 minutes ago, nibbler747 said:

I think they were just going with the socially unaware gag rather than a creeper gag. They often have Sheldon do or say the wrong things in social situations.  I think that's the joke the were going for and not this invasive creeper some people took it as.

That don't play anymore.  He's reference oral sex, he's referenced love, he's had sex, he's referenced honeymoons, and if he was so unaware, he wouldn't have been so worried about Penny calling Leonard that he ran out of the bathroom.  The can get by with him not understand idioms, but not actions.  

[April]

18 minutes ago, ATOB said:

Asexuals do have sexual urges. The urges are not directed towards another person. That's where the word 'orientation' comes into it.

He was working on it. He knew it was what Amy wanted. She had told him so. He wasn't denying her sex to be mean or score points. For whatever reasons, he did not want to have sex with Amy, nor anyone else. I view one of those reasons to be that he is asexual. YMMV

Asexual people can and do have sex with, and for, people they love without the desire to have it for their own gratification. I know you're familiar with Aven because previously you decided that, because a person without a doctorate devised the primary and secondary desire model within it, it was effectively worthless. I would question that thinking myself. Much of Freud's theory was discredited by Kinsey's research due to the biased and compromised control group Freud studied compared with the simple compilation of data from a large and varied cross-section of society that formed Kinsey's work. In short, one man's opinion (yes, even a man with a doctorate) on a certain group of people cannot possibly trump research taken from people with direct experience of the study subject themselves, as in the case of the Aven site. It is a site devised by asexual people, in all their denominations, for asexual people. I highly doubt it is inaccurate.

The problem back then was that you were clinging to a specific idea that isn't universally accepted - not even amongst the users of AVEN. Sexuality is a wide spectrum and you can't just check off a few items to diagnose another person, or in this case a character. Trying to do that is a bit of a futile exercise when not even the AVEN community can agree on what definition or model is the most fitting. However, one of the core points stressed repeatedly among aro/ace people is their self-identification with the label, hence why you get a lot of "people who identify as asexual also do [sexual things]". That doesn't mean that one should reverse the argument as "even if you do [sexual thing] you're still asexual" if that person doesn't identify as ace in the first place. It creates a logical fallacy and violates one of the principles of the community that people should identify with what they feel most comfortable with.

Now, there's a lot of room on the spectrum between "asexual" and "sexual" and Sheldon is probably somewhere in the middle with demi as the obvious choice because it fits the basic definition without having to resort to any mental gymnastics. If at one point he comes out as asexual then I'll happily support that. But right now I don't see it as the story the show wants to sell.

[Tensor]

4 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

Even more so, as he has been intimate with his significant other.  How would he feel if Raj wondered into the bathroom when Amy was showering????

True, we could switch it and have Amy drying off in their shower and Leonard walking in and seeing her naked, that would be hilarious, wouldn't it?   It really highlights the bullshit situation with the living arrangements.

[hokie3457]

6 minutes ago, Tensor said:

That don't play anymore.  He's reference oral sex, he's referenced love, he's had sex, he's referenced honeymoons, and if he was so unaware, he wouldn't have been so worried about Penny calling Leonard that he ran out of the bathroom.  The can get by with him not understand idioms, but not actions.  

A man uninvited into a bathroom where a woman is showering is NOT acceptable.  It doesn't matter if he is clueless.  There is no excuse.  A great point Tensor is that he ran away when Mrs. Hofstadter bellowed "LEONARD!".

[Nogravitasatall]

3 minutes ago, Tensor said:

I can no longer see Sheldon as "a little kid".   He lost that back in 6.08.  When the writers gave him the comment  "She could think she's a chicken pecking for corn" with the movement of head, they removed all doubt.  

I never did. I saw him as the outsider questioning why people make all their decisions  based on their endocrine systems and not their intellects. Penny is not a sexual object to him. She's a test article.

I haven't seen this but I think his intent was not to perve, it's just that everyone else would in that situation. I still believe his motivations are not as most others.

[hokie3457]

2 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I never did. I saw him as the outsider questioning why people make all their decisions  based on their endocrine systems and not their intellects. Penny is not a sexual object to him. She's a test article.

I haven't seen this but I think his intent was not to perve, it's just that everyone else would in that situation. I still believe his motivations are not as most others.

It does not matter.  The point is he should not have been in there.  He wanted to make his apology tour on HIS terms, which meant he was going to find Penny and have her accept delivery of the t-shirt come hell or high water.  Again, Tensor's point that he ran when Penny called to her husband says much....

[SRAM]

I feel Penny has changed the most in the show, she has gone from the flighty 21-22 year old who could barely survive financially, dated guys who used her and a hot party girl, to something more.  She now is still very pretty, but she is much more stable, makes more money than her friends, is married and much more secure.

The problem is the fans and the writers themselves don't see that all the time.  Sheldon walking in the bathroom to talk to showering married Penny is as bad as him sneaking into her apartment in season one to clean, both are invasions of her privacy and creepy.  However where it was funny with young single Penny who wanted to beat his ass, it is just plain creepy with married Penny who just wants him out and calls her husband to help.

[3ku11]

Well this welll keep happening until Lenny move out. No boundaries haha. Then maybe Amy can move in and be his caregiver lol. Problem is a crazy person needs a muse. Without Lenny its just a crazy person. You need Lenny for the contrast. But I guess it's not funny anymore.

[ATOB]

18 minutes ago, April said:

The problem back then was that you were clinging to a specific idea that isn't universally accepted - not even amongst the users of AVEN. Sexuality is a wide spectrum and you can't just check off a few items to diagnose another person, or in this case a character. Trying to do that is a bit of a futile exercise when not even the AVEN community can agree on what definition or model is the most fitting. However, one of the core points stressed repeatedly among aro/ace people is their self-identification with the label, hence why you get a lot of "people who identify as asexual also do [sexual things]". That doesn't mean that one should reverse the argument as "even if you do [sexual thing] you're still asexual" if that person doesn't identify as ace in the first place. It creates a logical fallacy and violates one of the principles of the community that people should identify with what they feel most comfortable with.

Now, there's a lot of room on the spectrum between "asexual" and "sexual" and Sheldon is probably somewhere in the middle with demi as the obvious choice because it fits the basic definition without having to resort to any mental gymnastics. If at one point he comes out as asexual then I'll happily support that. But right now I don't see it as the story the show wants to sell.

I think he's said enough to tell us he's asexual.  He even believes he is a homo novus due to his sexuality. 

Before I read the taping report and watched the 'Coitus' episode, I was firmly on the demi-sexual 'team'.  Hey, I am very much still hoping tptb do go that way.  If we accept he's having sex for the connection (as Jenafan suggested) then yes, I agree. There's too much 'Sheldon don't get it' for me to fully buy into it at the moment.  I think the sex is for Amy, an act of love and devotion, as stated, "a gift".

I can only judge by what I'm shown and have been shown. I don't do 'leaps of faith' in any aspect of my life. But that's me.

[Nogravitasatall]

17 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

It does not matter.  The point is he should not have been in there.  He wanted to make his apology tour on HIS terms, which meant he was going to find Penny and have her accept delivery of the t-shirt come hell or high water.  Again, Tensor's point that he ran when Penny called to her husband says much....

Yup. Haven't seen it. Still think he doesn't get social convention. Penny and Leonard know this. They have to deal with their choices - which includes living with a guy with no boundaries. And he's a guywho lived in Germany briefly, where some norms are different. He lives outside the rules. Penny should be surprised?  She really has no reason to be - Sheldon does what he wants - not like a child - but maybe like a cat.

[Kasey]

I believe it is a healthy criticism to say that Sheldon was in no way right in coming into the bathroom when Penny was showering.  Period.  My opinion has nothing to do with whether or not I like Sheldon.  I like Leonard and would think he was overstepping his bounds if he walked in on Amy and didn't retreat when told to.

I believe the problem comes when excuses start to be made especially when things get physically personal that parallelism to more severe inappropriate actions/behaviors start becoming mentioned.  I can see the point of some saying that if one would excuse "x" behavior because he's "y" means he can overstep more advanced boundaries. 

 

[ATOB]

20 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

It does not matter.  The point is he should not have been in there.  He wanted to make his apology tour on HIS terms, which meant he was going to find Penny and have her accept delivery of the t-shirt come hell or high water.  Again, Tensor's point that he ran when Penny called to her husband says much....

Oh, he knew he shouldn't be in there. He just didn't care. His need to off-load his obligation was a higher priority to him than her privacy.....hell or 'hot' water! People are focusing on 'Penny' being naked, but it's irrelevant, Sheldon would have done it to any one of the gang, even a naked Emily perhaps, remember the conversation he had when President Siebert was trying to pee?

But the fact that it is Penny (or Emily) makes it inappropriate, therefore funny. It wouldn't be so funny if it was one of the guys in there.

[JE7]

4 minutes ago, Kasey said:

I believe it is a healthy criticism to say that Sheldon was in no way right in coming into the bathroom when Penny was showering.  Period.  My opinion has nothing to do with whether or not I like Sheldon.  I like Leonard and would think he was overstepping his bounds if he walked in on Amy and didn't retreat when told to.

I believe the problem comes when excuses start to be made especially when things get physically personal that parallelism to more severe inappropriate actions/behaviors start becoming mentioned.  I can see the point of some saying that if one would excuse "x" behavior because he's "y" means he can overstep more advanced boundaries. 

 

Well said

[Tonstar17]

It does not matter.  The point is he should not have been in there.  He wanted to make his apology tour on HIS terms, which meant he was going to find Penny and have her accept delivery of the t-shirt come hell or high water.  Again, Tensor's point that he ran when Penny called to her husband says much....

Oh, he knew he shouldn't be in there. He just didn't care. His need to off-load his obligation was a higher priority to him than her privacy.....hell or 'hot' water! People are focusing on 'Penny' being naked, but it's irrelevant, Sheldon would have done it to any one of the gang, even a naked Emily perhaps, remember the conversation he had when President Siebert was trying to pee?

But the fact that it is Penny (or Emily) makes it inappropriate, therefore funny. It wouldn't be so funny if it was one of the guys in there.

Sorry but that Sheldon is not the 2016 Sheldon. He has supposedly learnt a lot since then and should know better. Sorry don't buy it. He knows a lot now and please someone take the vinyl of repeat. It's annoying.

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[Nogravitasatall]

26 minutes ago, Kasey said:

I believe it is a healthy criticism to say that Sheldon was in no way right in coming into the bathroom when Penny was showering.  Period.  My opinion has nothing to do with whether or not I like Sheldon.  I like Leonard and would think he was overstepping his bounds if he walked in on Amy and didn't retreat when told to.

I believe the problem comes when excuses start to be made especially when things get physically personal that parallelism to more severe inappropriate actions/behaviors start becoming mentioned.  I can see the point of some saying that if one would excuse "x" behavior because he's "y" means he can overstep more advanced boundaries. 

 

I'm not saying he should. I'm saying he will. He certainly should not behave that way, but he will anyway because he has a different decision making process to what is common. He is pretty much invulnerable to shame and guilt, which drive most of us. He doesn't blush at anything, literally. So I am not condoning him or admiring him but it's an observation. And he is just lucky that he has sufficient privilege to get away with what he does.

edit. And if Penny wants privacy she should move. And Leonard should buck up and start the move process himself. But then they lose the funny, so....

Edited February 19, 2016 by Nogravitasatall

[Tensor]

 

An inappropriate post was hidden.   Replies that referred to that post, or answers to that post, were also hidden.  Remember, if you think a post is inappropriate, report it, don't respond.   3ku11, Mislav, I strongly suggest you read (or reread) the  changes to the rules  that were posted on Wednesday.

[Mislav]

I think Sheldon took the "quest " to apologize too seriously and wanted to get it done no matter what, showing his intentions as soon as possible and getting it over it. Penny calling out Leonard was a sign that she wouldn't accept it at that moment and that she was really uncomfortable by that point, so he left. Was he being rude? Absolutely. Did I like it? No. But I don't see any vile intentions behind his actions. And it is not something that he does constantly. I see Sheldon as demisexual. I think that he hardly see anyone (other than Amy, now) in a sexual way Amy, if ever. Has anyone done worse things? Absolutely, especially Stuart as of lately. And not even in his own apartment.