[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9

[Mislav]

13 hours ago, JE7 said:

Serious question, why do you go to such lengths to explain away Sheldon's bad behavior. You admit it was inappropriate but then justify it. Why is it diffrent just because it's Sheldon?

At his age living and working in the world as an adult shouldn't he be held to the same standards as others and if not why?

And since he has NOT and never will be diagnosed with any "condition" you can't use that reason only what we have seen on the show

I am not justifying his behavior, I just argue that he meant no harm and that there was nothing sexual about that situation. Geez.

[Stephen Hawking]

14 hours ago, JE7 said:

So you think the writers had him intentionally try to see Penny's bits?

I don't think he wanted to see her "bits".

If he had, he'd have peaked into the shower, rather than stood in the bathroom, and talked to her through shower curtain.

[hokie3457]

Serious question, why do you go to such lengths to explain away Sheldon's bad behavior. You admit it was inappropriate but then justify it. Why is it diffrent just because it's Sheldon?

At his age living and working in the world as an adult shouldn't he be held to the same standards as others and if not why?

And since he has NOT and never will be diagnosed with any "condition" you can't use that reason only what we have seen on the show

I am not justifying his behavior, I just argue that he meant no harm and that there was nothing sexual about that situation. Geez.

The only problem was that Penny did feel harm. She had an expectation of privacy and was denied that privacy by someone who was only thinking of himself.

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[Stephen Hawking]

13 hours ago, Kasey said:

I like Leonard and would think he was overstepping his bounds if he walked in on Amy and didn't retreat when told to.

Provided there was a shower curtain between them, I don't think Amy would be overly bothered.

We are talking about a woman who was up for a night of "stress relief" sex with a man she'd never even spoken to, "stall to stall chitchat" with two friends, and "harmless experimentation with lesbianism" at a slumber party.

14 hours ago, ATOB said:

It wouldn't be so funny if it was one of the guys in there.

The beginning of Agreement Dissection (even before we learned that Priya was in the shower with Leonard) was pretty funny.

[Mislav]

19 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

I am not justifying his behavior, I just argue that he meant no harm and that there was nothing sexual about that situation. Geez.

 

The only problem was that Penny did feel harm. She had an expectation of privacy and was denied that privacy by someone who was only thinking of himself.

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I said that he meant no harm. Read carefully.

[hokie3457]

I am not justifying his behavior, I just argue that he meant no harm and that there was nothing sexual about that situation. Geez.

 

The only problem was that Penny did feel harm. She had an expectation of privacy and was denied that privacy by someone who was only thinking of himself.

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I said that he meant no harm. Read carefully.

Again (and I did read carefully), it does not matter what he meant. He violated her privacy for his own interests.

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[Mislav]

9 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

I said that he meant no harm. Read carefully.

 

Again (and I did read carefully), it does not matter what he meant. He violated her privacy fore his own interests.

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Some posters discussed his intentions. I expressed my opinion on that matter. Get it?

[hokie3457]

And I don't care about his (selfish) intentions. He did something wrong. He was asked to leave. He didn't. Mrs. Hofstadter called for her husband. At that point Dr. Cooper retreated. I no longer wish to go over and over his. Thank you nevertheless.

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[Mislav]

1 minute ago, hokie3457 said:

And I don't care about his (selfish) intentions. He did something wrong. He was asked to leave. He didn't. Mrs. Hofstadter called for her husband. At that point Dr. Cooper retreated. I no longer wish to go over and over his. Thank you nevertheless.

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Then why did you reply, multiple times, to my posts about his motivations? 

I'm done with this too.

[Kasey]

1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

And I don't care about his (selfish) intentions. He did something wrong. He was asked to leave. He didn't. Mrs. Hofstadter called for her husband. At that point Dr. Cooper retreated. I no longer wish to go over and over his. Thank you nevertheless.

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Aww...what a sweet name Penny now has...

[Carlos]

On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 10:37 PM, Kathy2611 said:

Getting really tired of the Lenny as Sheldon's parents act.  It's really getting old.  And "our place" ????  No, Penny!  It's NOT "our place". It's Sheldon's place and his roommate Leonard, who moved in with him, is married now and should be living with his wife in her apartment across the hall!!!  

1,000,000 % agree, but if you really think about it, it is Leonard's place (and Sheldon's of course) so she's taking it as by extension it's also hers (since it's part her husband's). The problem is not Penny's but the writers'.  We suspend disbelief many times, but to honestly be able to conceptualize that two 30 somethings who are newly weds would still be living with a friend who (according to what they themselves have said on the show) can be a pain in the butt sometimes, is really very hard, and getting to the point of being ridiculous. What is the reason for them doing so? Even if it was a stretch, you could understand it when Shamy was apart, but now, why? I think that the biggest problem TBBT has is that Sheldon needs to be interacting with someone to be funny, and they (apparently) don't want to move Amy into 4A just yet, and therefore Sheldon would be alone too much time. They could accomplish being funny by focusing on some not so Sheldon intensive story lines, but I don't think they'll do that either. It is indeed a conundrum because they need to change something, because the situation is really stale , but they don't want to do it because they don't want to risk not  being funny. Who knows...

[luminous]

1 hour ago, Kasey said:

Aww...what a sweet name Penny now has...

Yes, indeed!

I wish for a scene in which Penny calls someone and says: "Hi. Penny Hofstadter here..."

[Carlos]

On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 11:43 PM, vonmar said:

Most bathrooms doors have locks Shouldn't Penny have locked the door?

Do you walk into any closed door without knocking? You don't, right? Enough said. If you want to assign "blame",  to me it's Penny 20 % , Sheldon 80% , in this case.

[hokie3457]

Most bathrooms doors have locks Shouldn't Penny have locked the door?

Do you walk into any closed door without knocking? You don't, right? Enough said. If you want to assign "blame",  to me it's Penny 20 % , Sheldon 80% , in this case.

I'm going to regret getting into this again, but on the blame score for the unfortunate incident of a male entering the bathroom of a showering female. 100% Sheldon....

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[Kasey]

1 minute ago, Carlos said:

Do you walk into any closed door without knocking? You don't, right? Enough said. If you want to assign "blame",  to me it's Penny 20 % , Sheldon 80% , in this case.

The thing is to me and removing the ridiculousness of Lenny living with Sheldon for a moment. BUT if Penny considers that her place as well as Leonard and Sheldon's then a couple of things would naturally occur:

1.  no one would just open a closed door without knocking first.

2.  why would one need to lock their bathroom door in their own place?

This is not really directed specifically at you Carlos.  Just wanted to add my 3 cents...

[Chrismo]

The point of the Sheldon behavior in the bathroom with Penny is this.. It was inappropriate and he shouldn't of done it. Trying to find reasons for why he did it is just making an excuse for him and justifying it.

[Carlos]

23 hours ago, jenafan said:

It is possible Sheldon did his three knock and Penny let him in to pee, not knowing he was on his apology pitch.

I think Penny was more annoyed about his reason for being in the bathroom and unwillingness to wait for her to finish her shower for his apology than him actually being in there.

Sheldon does not respect boundaries, but neither does Penny.  She walked into Sheldon's room workout knocking to grab his keyboard from him.  He could have been naked.  

They are both guilty.  To me,  it just goes to show how platonically comfortable they are with each other.  I see no perversion here.  Sheldon is no threat to Penny. 

I have a bigger problem with Penny drawing on Sheldon's face without cause.

I completely disagree with you. When Penny took his keyboard away it was for him to stop bothering the hell out of them and to let them sleep, so there was a reason for her to do that, not to mention that he was being totally annoying.

In Sheldon's case he knew Penny was taking a shower, so it completely changes things, in my view.

[Tenji]

I just thought the whole thing was funny. I seem to be in a minority though.

[JE7]

It was funny because it was inappropriate, the problem is people saying it's not inappropriate just because " it's Sheldon "

Some will argue that ANYTHING Sheldon says or does is OK because he didn't know any better or his motives were pure. When he does know better and his motivations don't change the inappropriate to appropriate

Edited February 20, 2016 by JE7

[No Regrets]

I think in general, sitcoms just aren't meant to be taken too seriously and we just aren't meant to analyze these characters. In the end, TPTB will change them in order to make a storyline fit, not the other way around. Not that you should ever overanalyze fictional characters since they don't make their own decisions.

Still fun, though.

[veejay]

25 minutes ago, JE7 said:

It was funny because it was inappropriate, the problem is people saying it's not inappropriate just because " it's Sheldon "

Some will argue that ANYTHING Sheldon says or does is OK because he didn't know any better or his motives were pure. When he does know better and his motivations don't change the inappropriate to appropriate

I agree with you. Well, I guess someone’s smarter than two idiots, right?

[djsurrey]

33 minutes ago, Tenji said:

I just thought the whole thing was funny. I seem to be in a minority though.

Who could say were the majority is. After all the people who agree with you may have little or no motivation to talk about this.

34 minutes ago, JE7 said:

It was funny because it was inappropriate, the problem is people saying it's not inappropriate just because " it's Sheldon "

Some will argue that ANYTHING Sheldon says or does is OK because he didn't know any better or his motives were pure. When he does know better and his motivations don't change the inappropriate to appropriate

I agree except I don't know what makes you say this is a problem? It is possible people are expressing a simular idea in different ways.

[wowbagger]

Just doing a quick head-pop to say about the Positive Negative Reaction:

1) Simon Helberg is a damn treasure. Even with the cringeworthy material he is given so often (yes, Howard, your wife's breasts will get bigger as a consequence of pregnancy. Phnyarr phnyarr. This show never met an easy joke it didn't hammer into the ground, did it?), he manages to locate heart to Howard's journey.

2) Sheldon bonding with Howard made me sniffle.* I know Shelnard and Rajward (I guess?) are the canonical Heterosexual Life Partners on the show, but I have always been a huge fan of Sheldon and Howard.

3) Amy's unbridled glee about being able to join in sex-talk is absolutely wonderful. Does she enjoy it more than she enjoyed the sex itself, I wonder? Hmmm, given that epic bedhead in the Opening Night Excitation (and not a bra-strap in sight, as @Nogravitasatall pointed out), I guess we can call it sex of one, half a dozen of the other?

4) PAMY HIGH FIVE! PAmy karaoke! This makes my PAmy friendship 'shipper heart very very happy. More PAmy! More PAmyDette! MOAARRR!!!!!

5) Wow, the show's sexism is coming out to play, though, isn't it? Once again, the guys get the career plot, while the girls twitter excitedly about baby stuff and how they are already mothering their menfolk, or whatever. Sigh. I mean, at the very least couldn't the show have given Sheldon's 'experimenting on your twins' line to the, you know, actual experimental biologist, Amy?

6) And I would like to register my disapproval at how unearned (and yet, somehow, horribly predictable) this baby development felt. Bernie, of all the characters on the show, has been opposed to having children, or at the very least needing Howard to step up and take on childcare arrangements in a really big way to reconcile herself to having children. Now, people change their minds about these things, all the time. But, show, this feels like something that could have been usefully explored, instead of shrieking the same tired joke about Howard being Bernie's child (which, notice, made an appearance again this episode). Nothing in all that time has suggested that Bernie was changing her mind particularly about being a mother herself. She just didn't want to be a mother to her husband.

Still, Helberg was wonderful, and the episode pulled itself together and gave us a sweeter and more united Howardette than I remember in a long time. If this arc is about Howard putting away his need to be babied (now that he has a child himself on the way), then well and good. And this episode is a good start.

 

*Although: what is with the 'we both grew up without fathers' thing? I get the sentiment (that it is about the quality of the father, and making the effort to be the best you can be, rather than anything else), but loads of people grow up without a father, and do just fine! People grow up raised by single mothers, or two mothers, and they're fine! Leonard and Raj both grew up with fathers, and bless them, they are hardly paragons, are they? WTF, show.

Edited February 20, 2016 by wowbagger

[Nogravitasatall]

4 hours ago, Chrismo said:

The point of the Sheldon behavior in the bathroom with Penny is this.. It was inappropriate and he shouldn't of done it. Trying to find reasons for why he did it is just making an excuse for him and justifying it.

It's an interesting proposition. Is it that he is a. competent and makes these choices in full knowledge of and with total disregard for the consequences (Ultron) or 2. he has a few roos loose in his top paddock and is not able to ever properly be socialised (Rainman). Disinhibition is a difficult thing to be around, but the creatives dodge calling him incompetent. 

However he lives in a parallel universe to ours and I think one can't judge people too hard on their reactions to what constitutes a thought experiment. Because it's fiction. Like Dexter. Or 24. Or 50 Shades of Gray. 

If anyone forms a political party to implement Sheldon's manifesto then, worry.

[Earnie]

On a different subject did anyone think 9 years ago when the show started that Howard would be married and about to become a father when I watch the earlier seasons and see how creepy he was and then see him now two totally different men in my opinion