[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9

[3ku11]

Phants a keyboard warrior  We bow down.to our lord and saviour . Fact is writers have gone sleepy on Lenny and Leonard, lazy zzz. They dont give a damn about anyone other then Sheldon, Amy and Mayims just luckey shes supporting the cash cow. They need to get rid of Moloro hes ruining the show, but whatever. Ratings well crash and this show well be the new simpsons, driven right into.the ground..

Edited August 16, 2015 by 3ku11

[veejay]

...............................................Being an argument from incredulity doesn't automatically make a person wrong  A 5 yr. old kid can have a lack of an imagination on not believing in Santa Claus, that doesn't mean that kid is wrong.

Nice try at moving the goalposts but here's what you said 2 days ago:

You mentioned NOTHING in that post above about wanting me to present evidence that it's wrong and presumptuous for him to think that the writing makes no sense.  You said "All I asked" implying nothing else...................................................

You're wrong.
No, I'm not.
Yes, you are.
No, I'm not.
Settle this:
For those of you at home, I am shaking my head "no, it’s incredible annoying“.

[rachelshamyfan]

Skull you forgot something 

[3ku11]

Meka you started it, so.plesse end it seriousley, no one cares about your presumptions lol lord.

[Carlos]

I am really sorry to say this, but to me they have destroyed Lenny so much since the end of S6 that I don't know if it's possible to fully recuperate from it, and am seriously considering not watching the show anymore. The good Lenny moments are so few and far between that I really trying to decide if it's worth it. I can always pretend the show finished at the end of season six, and make of my own ending.

[Nogravitasatall]

But you don't know that, do you? We have to go by what we know. We can't assume anything. I never thought the writers were going to shit all over Lenny and the Leonard character and yet they did, because they are out of ideas. Your problem is you are and forever will be a TBBT apologist. You seem to think the writers can do no wrong. Well,,,they can and they have BIG TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@ Carlos,  it's horrible but I am hoping they can save something from the wreck. Otherwise it's a venal and tawdry trashing of L/P. I don't want them to be tossed out like that. I want it to mean something. I think it can.

@phanta, Leonard and Penny can never have another first wedding. They may have a party  - where they might re-affirm their vows (which I think is unnecessary as vows don't wear out) - or some contrivance that annuls them, but I don't believe they can ever have the very same joy that they would have had if Leonard had a) been upright and ii) kept his frakkin' mouth shut. Sorry, but to my mind that opportunity for the L/P cohort to watch L/P experiencing that joy is gone. Irretrievably. They might do something else, but that particular thing is dead. People break up all the time, but you get married for the first time just the once.

@meka and @tensor. Ok, but if not now, then when?

Edited August 16, 2015 by Nogravitasatall

[3ku11]

I am really sorry to say this, but to me they have destroyed Lenny so much since the end of S6 that I don't know if it's possible to fully recuperate from it, and am seriously considering not watching the show anymore. The good Lenny moments are so few and far between that I really trying to decide if it's worth it. I can always pretend the show finished at the end of season six, and make of my own ending.

i know what you mean. Show kinda ended for me in s7 finalie. Shows just a sequel after that. All.they do now is use Lenny as some kinda vechile or catalyst for pushing Sheldons agenda, or delay living arrangements. Lenny have become a scapegoat and an afterthought. Sorry this a supportive thread, but i dont see anything.to support right now. Lenny were last them, in s6 finalie when Leonard left for the boat trip.. could the real Lenny please stand up 

Edited August 16, 2015 by 3ku11

[3ku11]

Skull you forgot something 

i wasent being.sarcastic. 

[Vittoria Jacoel]

Do you think that in the second episode sheldon will tell about the ring? Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

[3ku11]

Do you think that in the second episode sheldon will tell about the ring? Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

Sheldon well.take over like he always does lol. He has a ring, who gives a damn. How about he propose.to his one true love Sheldon 2.0 from the future..

[rachelshamyfan]

i wasent being.sarcastic. 

You were, or at least it seemed that way when you called someone a keyboard warrior and your additional comments on that

[meka3000]

Meka you started it, so.plesse end it seriousley, no one cares about your presumptions lol lord.

Tensor does, it's why he keeps responding when I make them.

Phants a keyboard warrior  We bow down.to our lord and saviour .

 

They need to get rid of Moloro hes ruining the show

Said one keyboard warrior to the other.

Releasing Moloro (who I don't believe is the problem) is no guarantee that it will have an effect on the quality.  Since this show is still a group effort and hodpodge of many different producers (some higher up the food chain than others) and their ideas.

Edited August 16, 2015 by meka3000

[mirs1]

Do you think that in the second episode sheldon will tell about the ring? Inviato dal mio iPhone utiliz

I've no idea...all I know is that at CC we were assured that in the first episode we should have had at least some partial answers about it, but as far as the TR goes, we will have none. Actually, given the dramatic tone of the situation right now, i think that knowing the back story of the ring before Sheldon is able to use it will just add sadness to sadness, so i'd prefer the writers don't mention it for the moment.

Edited August 16, 2015 by mirs1

[Chiany]

You're wrong.
No, I'm not.
Yes, you are.
No, I'm not.
Settle this:
For those of you at home, I am shaking my head "no, it’s incredible annoying“.

Is the latest score? Because I lost track ten pages ago.

You were, or at least it seemed that way when you called someone a keyboard warrior and your additional comments on that

That's what the report function is for (hint hint)

[3ku11]

Is the latest score? Because I lost track ten pages ago.

That's what the report function is for (hint hint)

can i report you too Chiany 

[Chiany]

can i report you too Chiany 

Ofcourse.

[Juni]

Oh my, I'm not quite sure I want to get in the middle that. I actually tried reading the last pages and now feel a strong need to hold my head in constant whiplash.

So here's just a few words:

Like most of you, I didn't like what I read in the TR. And yes, I really didn't like how they put Lenny in this akward place. Actually from my grasp of Leonard's character, I wouldn't have seen this coming. It does seem OOC.

Yet I'm a pragmatic person and have learned to pick my fights. What's done is done and we have to go from here.

Now, agreeing that Leonard is OOC, how bad is this "infidelity" thingy anyway. He kissed another girl, once. He claimed he didn't enjoy it, stopped it even. Alkohol was involved.. Although this is a bad thing, it is also very human and can actually happen to anyone. That doesn't necessarily mean he is a bad person. Maybe she initiated the kiss, he was surprised, etc.. But he stopped it.

We are used to the character's being flawless, apart from their own little social awkwardness and personality quirks. I guess the writers have been defining the characters over the years, putting some depth into them. Kissing someone else while in a relationship is a real thing happing to people all around the world. I personally think that the problems Leonard and Penny had been fighting over up until now, are no real life problems. Proposing during coitus, for instance. Come on! To how many of you has this happened? No, we get cheated on, we cheat, we fall in love with someone else...This happens out here.

Where does this leave us? Leonard and Penny will need to fix things. It should be really interesting to watch them deal with this. Relationships are about always working on things, mending them. They will only emerge stronger from this. And those of you who think this is to dramatic for a comedy, keep in mind, that comedy is drama presented in a comedic way. The writers and actors will know how to get the most laughs out of this.

Another thing is the wedding. We all would have preferred a romantic, traditional ceremony, of cause. Now with Leonard and Penny getting married Las Vegas style, we feel betrayed. But not all is lost. From my understanding of the TR, they never consummated their wedding because Penny was too distracted. From what we've learned from episode 7.09 'The Thanksgiving Decoupling', a marriage can be annuled in this case. They might just go for that..

The issue of Leonard not telling Penny he has been working with Mandy for 2 years will certainly add tension between them but this may also be resolved fairly quickly. We don't know Mandy's deal here. Maybe she'll hit on Sheldon, maybe she'll be Raj's next love-interest. Maybe she'll disappear after just one episode. Let's not count the chicken here...

If I might add, I think Leonard not telling Penny about all that stuff can be seen positively. He might not have told her because it didn't seem to be important. He never enjoyed the kiss, it didn't mean anything to him. He's been working alongside Mandy and probably never even thought about the kiss. There was no hesitation or doubt concerning his relationship with Penny or we would have gotten a hint of that during the last seasons. Mandy obviously never hit on Leonard during work, we would have seen this as well.

Basically all I'm saying is, nothing is lost! The writers have disappointed us on prior occasions but they've also surprised us with wonderful plots and twists. Things might look different once the full episode is presented. I sure hope so!

 

This is simply my personal take on things. I don't want to offend anyone...

 

[3ku11]

Oh my, I'm not quite sure I want to get in the middle that. I actually tried reading the last pages and now feel a strong need to hold my head in constant whiplash.

So here's just a few words:

Like most of you, I didn't like what I read in the TR. And yes, I really didn't like how they put Lenny in this akward place. Actually from my grasp of Leonard's character, I wouldn't have seen this coming. It does seem OOC.

Yet I'm a pragmatic person and have learned to pick my fights. What's done is done and we have to go from here.

Now, agreeing that Leonard is OOC, how bad is this "infidelity" thingy anyway. He kissed another girl, once. He claimed he didn't enjoy it, stopped it even. Alkohol was involved.. Although this is a bad thing, it is also very human and can actually happen to anyone. That doesn't necessarily mean he is a bad person. Maybe she initiated the kiss, he was surprised, etc.. But he stopped it.

We are used to the character's being flawless, apart from their own little social awkwardness and personality quirks. I guess the writers have been defining the characters over the years, putting some depth into them. Kissing someone else while in a relationship is a real thing happing to people all around the world. I personally think that the problems Leonard and Penny had been fighting over up until now, are no real life problems. Proposing during coitus, for instance. Come on! To how many of you has this happened? No, we get cheated on, we cheat, we fall in love with someone else...This happens out here.

Where does this leave us? Leonard and Penny will need to fix things. It should be really interesting to watch them deal with this. Relationships are about always working on things, mending them. They will only emerge stronger from this. And those of you who think this is to dramatic for a comedy, keep in mind, that comedy is drama presented in a comedic way. The writers and actors will know how to get the most laughs out of this.

Another thing is the wedding. We all would have preferred a romantic, traditional ceremony, of cause. Now with Leonard and Penny getting married Las Vegas style, we feel betrayed. But not all is lost. From my understanding of the TR, they never consummated their wedding because Penny was too distracted. From what we've learned from episode 7.09 'The Thanksgiving Decoupling', a marriage can be annuled in this case. They might just go for that..

The issue of Leonard not telling Penny he has been working with Mandy for 2 years will certainly add tension between them but this may also be resolved fairly quickly. We don't know Mandy's deal here. Maybe she'll hit on Sheldon, maybe she'll be Raj's next love-interest. Maybe she'll disappear after just one episode. Let's not count the chicken here...

If I might add, I think Leonard not telling Penny about all that stuff can be seen positively. He might not have told her because it didn't seem to be important. He never enjoyed the kiss, it didn't mean anything to him. He's been working alongside Mandy and probably never even thought about the kiss. There was no hesitation or doubt concerning his relationship with Penny or we would have gotten a hint of that during the last seasons. Mandy obviously never hit on Leonard during work, we would have seen this as well.

Basically all I'm saying is, nothing is lost! The writers have disappointed us on prior occasions but they've also surprised us with wonderful plots and twists. Things might look different once the full episode is presented. I sure hope so!

 

This is simply my personal take on things. I don't want to offend anyone...

 

 

Oh my, I'm not quite sure I want to get in the middle that. I actually tried reading the last pages and now feel a strong need to hold my head in constant whiplash.

So here's just a few words:

Like most of you, I didn't like what I read in the TR. And yes, I really didn't like how they put Lenny in this akward place. Actually from my grasp of Leonard's character, I wouldn't have seen this coming. It does seem OOC.

Yet I'm a pragmatic person and have learned to pick my fights. What's done is done and we have to go from here.

Now, agreeing that Leonard is OOC, how bad is this "infidelity" thingy anyway. He kissed another girl, once. He claimed he didn't enjoy it, stopped it even. Alkohol was involved.. Although this is a bad thing, it is also very human and can actually happen to anyone. That doesn't necessarily mean he is a bad person. Maybe she initiated the kiss, he was surprised, etc.. But he stopped it.

We are used to the character's being flawless, apart from their own little social awkwardness and personality quirks. I guess the writers have been defining the characters over the years, putting some depth into them. Kissing someone else while in a relationship is a real thing happing to people all around the world. I personally think that the problems Leonard and Penny had been fighting over up until now, are no real life problems. Proposing during coitus, for instance. Come on! To how many of you has this happened? No, we get cheated on, we cheat, we fall in love with someone else...This happens out here.

Where does this leave us? Leonard and Penny will need to fix things. It should be really interesting to watch them deal with this. Relationships are about always working on things, mending them. They will only emerge stronger from this. And those of you who think this is to dramatic for a comedy, keep in mind, that comedy is drama presented in a comedic way. The writers and actors will know how to get the most laughs out of this.

Another thing is the wedding. We all would have preferred a romantic, traditional ceremony, of cause. Now with Leonard and Penny getting married Las Vegas style, we feel betrayed. But not all is lost. From my understanding of the TR, they never consummated their wedding because Penny was too distracted. From what we've learned from episode 7.09 'The Thanksgiving Decoupling', a marriage can be annuled in this case. They might just go for that..

The issue of Leonard not telling Penny he has been working with Mandy for 2 years will certainly add tension between them but this may also be resolved fairly quickly. We don't know Mandy's deal here. Maybe she'll hit on Sheldon, maybe she'll be Raj's next love-interest. Maybe she'll disappear after just one episode. Let's not count the chicken here...

If I might add, I think Leonard not telling Penny about all that stuff can be seen positively. He might not have told her because it didn't seem to be important. He never enjoyed the kiss, it didn't mean anything to him. He's been working alongside Mandy and probably never even thought about the kiss. There was no hesitation or doubt concerning his relationship with Penny or we would have gotten a hint of that during the last seasons. Mandy obviously never hit on Leonard during work, we would have seen this as well.

Basically all I'm saying is, nothing is lost! The writers have disappointed us on prior occasions but they've also surprised us with wonderful plots and twists. Things might look different once the full episode is presented. I sure hope so!

 

This is simply my personal take on things. I don't want to offend anyone...

 

Nah your fine. This is basically my perspective on the whole thing as well. 

Edited August 16, 2015 by 3ku11

[veejay]

........

Thank you!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chrismo]

But you don't know that, do you? We have to go by what we know. We can't assume anything. I never thought the writers were going to shit all over Lenny and the Leonard character and yet they did, because they are out of ideas. Your problem is you are and forever will be a TBBT apologist. You seem to think the writers can do no wrong. Well,,,they can and they have BIG TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the thing is she doesn't care about Lenny. all she cares about is Sheldon. it's the only reason she watches the show. and in reality has anything REALLY BAD  happened to Sheldon? The fact is the show's ratings have been going down. the numbers back that up. IMO there is no refuting that. Is it a lack of ideas? I can't say for certainity it is but then again I can't say for certainity it is not.

[3ku11]

i have held off posting this till I saw what was in the TR for the 2nd episode to see what the 'writers' could pull out of the bag.  a bit like a defense lawyer in a murder trial.  But cannot hold off any longer.  SPOILERS here - this is going to be a rant and a half as it is likely to be my last - at least under this username, so I suggest you move on.

First off the finale - like others i wondered where the hell this came from for Sheldon and Amy  .I had thought that the season 7 finale was bad, but at least it made sense in relation to what had gone on before, but this  no way.  Also this 'quickie' wedding for Leonard and Penny - not to mention the fact that (good god) he had kissed another woman while he was away.  But hey ho - come the premier - all would be ok.  Sheldon and Amy would have their talk, and sort out their issues, Leonard and Penny would argue a bit, the wedding would not take place and they would come home.

But no.  it goes from bad to worse, and believe it or not it is not just the Shamy break up that gets me going.

- Sheldon being excluded from seeing the video of his best friend's wedding, when all his other 'friends' would be there.  How could this have occurred.

* did Amy ask that they 'honor' her wishes that she and Sheldon should be allowed some time apart.  So in the 11 hours that she was supposedly reevaluating her relationship with the man she loves, she has asked their 'friends' to exclude him from seeing his best friends wedding - way to go girl !!!

*was it Bernadette who decided that it would be cruel to have Sheldon there with Amy.  But hold on, at this stage there had been no official 'break up'.  It was a step back - after all these 'writers' did craft their words so carefully !!!!  These 'friends' would have had no idea about what lay behind what was a fairly recent event in Amy and Sheldon's lives that is unless Amy had been spending the last 11 hours complaining about Sheldon's (the man she supposedly loves) bad behavior to her. And we were all witness to that the past year.

So these 'friend' which included Bernadette (who had witnessed Sheldon's love at in the Mall at Christmas) would have no right to play sides here, and to do so means for me that I have lost all respect for them. 

And what must Sheldon feel finding out the way he did, that he has now been excluded from the small group of 'friends' that he had thought he could trust. He would be better off with Kripke. 

Great comedy  episode so far.

* But now we have a wedding.  This is a wedding that the whole show has been building up to for 8 years.  And how is it dealt with, not only did the viewer not see the event, but their friends did not either.  REALLY.  This is something that could have rolled on for weeks.  But no it is wham, bam thank you mam.  Over and done with, and now they seem to separated.

* Then on top of this we have the group of 'friends' apparently split into groups.  The only one on Sheldon's side is Leonard - and that is only because Penny has kicked him out of her bed.  No doubt once she opens her arms to him (and yes I could be very crude here, but wont be) he will go running, leaving Sheldon on his own.

Again great comic writing by TPTB.

So where do we go from here.  No doubt - according to some of the posts on these threads there will be angst, and possibly Amy and may be even Sheldon dating to make the other jealous.  Oh great, another fantastic comedy plot.  These two unique individuals have now been turned into the 'normal' plot of man meets woman, they fall love, they break up, they meet others, they return to each other.

That is so novel and so creative, I would never had thought it.

Sheldon Four - in hazelra's brilliant FF story Six Sheldons,states

Never commit to a TV show unless you know it’s going to finish!  That’s what I learned.  You get so excited for a new show.  You look forward to it, hope for it, and arrange your life around it.  It takes effort that no one appreciates!!”

 

Sheldon One agreed, “He’s right, it’s a big commitment!”

“Exactly!  You watch, and slowly you get involved in the characters and the plot so much so you actually care what happens to them.  Then what do they do?  Fox cancels it!  Or worse, the plot gets boring, they kill off a major character or they just plain suck"

So when I referred to to the simile of a defense lawyer in a murder trial - unlike the writers here, I did craft my words carefully.

OK Sheldon and Amy are not dead, however the writers have IMO managed to not only kill of two unique and loved characters, but have butchered what I thought were true and honest friendships between the four men.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

imo your overracting a bit,  but when did the four guys friendship suddenly go down toilet lol? Must of missed that part. As for Lenny you do see them sharing their personal vows, if  stand corrected. Just not the i do part, or the sharing of rings. Its not confirmed shamy are dating other ppl. But tbh contary to.popular beleif, it aint theworst idea. How elsr are they going to grow individially. And i.dont really care sheldon.diddnt see.the wedding, because no one did lol. 

[wowbagger]

I think my take on the events of the S8 finale and the S9 premiere is: but was this strictly necessary? I know that the writers want to streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetcccccccccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh oooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuttttttttttt the road to a proper Lenny wedding, but wasn't there a way that they could do that instead of having Leonard cheat, and then compound the cheating by glossing over the pretty significant detail that his little lady friend is his colleague at the moment?

The thing is, that Lenny has actual organic conflict. They love each other, but they worry sometimes that they don't have stuff in common. That is interesting, I think, and realistic. it's a rich, adult conflict. Yes, yes, I know, 'adult', such a snoozer. But writers, do you really think that infidelity is easier to come back from than allowing Lenny to really explore what they mean to each other, and what their relationship means to them?

 

Similarly, I know that the writers want to stttttreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetcccccccccccccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ooooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuttttttttttttttttttt the road to Sheldon and Amy finding their own version of romance (and please let it be their version, not Hallmark (TM)'s version), or intimacy, or whatever. but was it really necessary to have Amy get in an enormous snit about Sheldon wanting to share his pop cultural interests during a kiss? The S9 premiere: well, given the break, Sheldon and Amy's reactions are in character, but: was this necessary?

Sheldon and Amy have actual, organic conflict, again. Amy would like to not have to take the initiative for change in their relationship the whole damn time. Sheldon would probably like the goal posts to stop moving the whole damn time. Amy would like to know that Sheldon actually wants to move forward, and is not reluctantly going along with things just to keep her. Sheldon would probably like to know whether Amy really wants the traditional romantic stuff, honestly and truly, and whether she actually wants to be with Fabio, or something. This could all be explored without having mountains of drama where both Sheldon and Amy behave like adolescents and have a screaming match instead of shutting their pie-holes for one hot second during their friends' wedding. A wedding which, by the way, should not have happened while there was still so much unresolved stuff between said friends, and yes, I know, Sheldon and Amy were hurting, but still, their friends' wedding. Come on, chaps.

As to whether the writers can come back from this: I think they can, but they'll need to tread carefully. And I have some scepticism about the writers' commitment to dealing with serious stuff, once introduced. (Exhibit A: Sheldon's breakdown in the S7 finale.)

[mirs1]

imo your overracting a bit,  but when did the four guys friendship suddenly go down toilet lol? Must of missed that part. As for Lenny you do see them sharing their personal vows, if  stand corrected. Just not the i do part, or the sharing of rings. Its not confirmed shamy are dating other ppl. But tbh contary to.popular beleif, it aint theworst idea. How elsr are they going to grow individially. And i.dont really care sheldon.diddnt see.the wedding, because no one did lol. 

I think, instead, that the post you quoted has some good points about friendship. Of course, if you don't care for Sheldon's character, you don't care for those points, and that's nothing wrong with it, but for some other people, like me, the kind of loneliness he is experiencing is sad to watch. Sheldon is the most annoying character ever created in a TV show, nobody denies it;  nevertheless his friendship with the guys lasts from more than ten years, Leonard is his best friend and the feeling is mutual (Leonard more than ones said that Sheldon is his best friends), so the situation at Howard's home was at least strange. He acted very badly at the wedding, but none of it would have happened if those "close" friends had not decided to not invite him. 

Moreover, even if he was in distress himself, he went to Penny to console her, said that he was sorry and that he understood her side, but found no much sympathy on her part. I'm not saying that all the guys and Penny should take Sheldon's side if they don't feel it (actually I think he was wrong, and yet IC, throughout all the episode, so I'm not taking his side too) but that all his friends that know him for more than ten years don't understand that this situation can make him go nuts and underestimate to this point his pain is very sad. I'll wait know what happens in the second episode, but what happened in the first one for me wasn't the behavior you should expect from close friends...

Edited August 16, 2015 by mirs1

[Mislav]

Chrismo, if you were the writer the show would be only about Lenny.

You've barely written anything positive about Lenny, ever, because as long as the show isn't all about them or full of images like Penny in your avatar you are not satisfied. 

Your only way of expressing like/dislike of it is criticizing an unrelated ship/character.

It looks like you don't like Lenny. It looks like you want something to complain about and justify your bashing of Sheldon/Shamy. I'm pretty sure that most of an actual Lenny shippers on this site see it by this point. 

If you really are a Lenny shipper, blame the writers, not people who disagree with you or don't have the same preferences as you. If you just want to criticize something, be honest about, otherwise you are painting a very bad picture of the ones who actually ship Lenny, and are doing yourself a disservice. I don't think that much people can say anything good about season nine premiere, you must have missed out a lot of good things earlier by cherry picking in order to prove a futile point. 

[Shamyyes]

Heartbroken for all. Sincerely hope the writers can pull this off and resolve these dramas in a TBBT way. 

 

All we can do is have hope and go forward.