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[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9


Tensor
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What a pointless discussion. No one is arguing that "she's just as important as SHELDON" - everybody knows she's a supporting character. But that doesn't mean that she can't be the source of interesting storylines. And yes, of course she would interact with other characters in those but again, that doesn't mean that those storylines are pointless or that they wouldn't help fleshing out her character.

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13 minutes ago, April said:

What a pointless discussion. No one is arguing that "she's just as important as SHELDON" - everybody knows she's a supporting character. But that doesn't mean that she can't be the source of interesting storylines. And yes, of course she would interact with other characters in those but again, that doesn't mean that those storylines are pointless or that they wouldn't help fleshing out her character.

For example..."The Positive Negative Reaction".  The storyline was Bernadette's pregnancy. How did the episode play out?...With Howard's reaction, followed by the guy's reaction, followed by the girl's reaction and then ending with the group celebration.

But at the end of the day, the storyline was Bernadette's...a tertiary character.

Edited by vonmar
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33 minutes ago, denajeanx said:

I see Sheldon and Amy as a unit as well as Lenny. I think at THIS point in the show, they wouldn't be able to continue if they lost one of the couples or characters 

The argument is pointless. 

 

But since this convo is turning nasty it is no longer fun so I am done with it

27 minutes ago, vonmar said:

For example..."The Positive Negative Reaction".  The storyline was Bernadette's pregnancy. How did the episode play out?...With Howard's reaction, followed by the guy's reaction, followed by the girl's reaction and then ending with the group celebration.

But at the end of the day, the storyline was Bernadette's...a tertiary character.

No it was Howard's a near primary charecter he got the meat of the story

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23 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Hey I shed a tear. I guess the difference between a casual..And some one who sees every nuance. 

Well, with the Shenny hug I rolled my eyes, and felt for Amy and Leonard. Sheldon said that now he was barely irritated by them (the hugs) but he really got into that one with Penny. As I said I would have felt uncomfortable being either Leonard or Amy.

13 hours ago, djsurrey said:

I for one am glad the writers are at the helm.

Excuse me for asking, but who else would be at the helm? The camera crew?

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2 minutes ago, Carlos said:

Well, with the Shenny hug I rolled my eyes, and felt for Amy and Leonard. Sheldon said that now he was barely irritated by them (the hugs) but he really got into that one with Penny. As I said I would have felt uncomfortable being either Leonard or Amy.

First I agree with what you said in this post

Second I would have a huge smile to if that has been me instead of Sheldon LOL :icon_redface:

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Wow, all this because someone pointed out that it was sort of strange that we don't have a single clue what is up with Amy's father, even though we do with Sheldon/Penny/Leonard/Raj/Howard/Bernie.

As to whether any character is indispensable to the show: Theoretically, no character is. Theoretically, every character is (even Stuart! I kid. Go away, Stuart). Schrodinger's Indispensability.

As to Sheldon and Penny's hug: I thought it was charming as hell, up to and including Sheldon's happy little smile as he snuggled into the hug he was being such a crosspatch about. Penny has long been the one to pull Sheldon out of his comfort zone, the friend who involves him (or the one he involves) in matters completely new to him. And the hug was really a prime example of that. Sheldon isn't a hugger, but his adoptive sister is. He has grown to tolerate them, even to volunteer them when he knows no other gesture will suffice. He would even miss them if the casual affection went away. But, being the curmudgeon he is, he HAS to bitch even as he is reciprocating the hug.

It was the scene in the bathroom that made me raise my eyebrows a little. I get that it was meant to mirror Missy: Sheldon's biological sister's insensitivity compared with his adoptive sister's greater empathy. I liked the moment and I think parsons and cuoco are reliably charming together.

BUT. It was, to me, the 'wrong' sort of sweet Sheldon/Penny moment. Penny is likelier to be the sort who would say 'it'll be fine! We'll protect you! If Leslie is horrible to you I'll go junior rodeo on her ass!' It is AMY who has historically been the one to understand Sheldon, to think he is fun and interesting and to enter into all the concerns that make everybody else side-eye at him. Sadly the writers at some point decided that it was funnier (ugh. To whom?!?) to have Amy play the role of long-suffering, snarky audience surrogate, instead of trusting the audience to laugh at two weird goofballs. But that is a rant for another day, and besides the show seems to be cautiously picking its way to an equilibrium where Amy is allowed to be weird too.

And, more to the point, it is AMY who has been the one to go to a panicking Sheldon, explain (without judgement or rancour but with understanding) that he can absolutely hole himself up in his room if he wants to, but that she is going to enjoy her Prom. Not babying Sheldon is an Amy thing, not a Leonard or a Penny thing. (with certain dishonourable exceptions. Oog.)

Which brings me to Leonard. Leonard is the one who tolerates Sheldon (as much as Sheldon infuriates him) because Leonard likes to be needed. Because somewhere underneath Sheldon's relentless selfishness, there is a fierce affection for Leonard, and Leonard's love -starved younger self recognises and imbibes the love and need like a desert drinks the rain (I...really don't know where that came from. Please forgive me).

But does that mean that I buy that Leonard and Amy would get into a pissing match with Amy over who has the right to look after Sheldon? Or that Amy is staking a claim to Sheldon's future (as vonmar said) while Leonard is holding on to his past? I would need to think about it. I am already quite disturbed that the show had Leonard try to one-up Sheldon's girlfriend over the relative degree of mutual nudity to which the other had been privy. This after a sequence where Amy was fixing Sheldon's tie in a manner veerrrry reminiscent of Leonard's fixing Sheldon's bow-tie in Prom. I know the writers frequently project on to Leonard (and have dragged Amy historically into a position where she has become a female Leonard rather than the female Sheldon of yore), but writers, you are letting your Sheldon-crush peek through in really creepy ways.

The dynamic would actually have made a lot more sense to me if we had seen Lenny arguing about the appropriate way to deal with Sheldon, while Amy went and talked to the guy. That would have drawn the line in the sand about future vs past effectively, without turning both Leonard and Amy into jealous girlfriends.

or! OR! Amy goes in after Sheldon, also freaks out, Leonard goes in after both of them, Sheldon and Leonard have an incredibly emotional moment that foreshadows Lenny moving out, THEN Penny comes in after all of them, saying 'it's getting crowded in here. Amy, your phone alarm is going off. Something about 'SH in Cambridge'? And Amy yelps and says 'I've got to go!', tells Sheldon it's fine, she can bring his surprise to him in there, and Penny dishes out her homespun counsel to all. Super PALS!

TL:DR: I like Shenny moments very much, but this felt really clumsy.

Edited by wowbagger
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1 hour ago, JE7 said:

OR some people just like a spirited debate and don't mind playing devil's advocate

Or I just might have been bored 

200w (4).gif

 

1 hour ago, JE7 said:

OR some people just like a spirited debate and don't mind playing devil's advocate

Or I just might have been bored 

200w (4).gif

I haven't seen anything spirited about it.

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7 hours ago, Carlos said:

Well, with the Shenny hug I rolled my eyes, and felt for Amy and Leonard. Sheldon said that now he was barely irritated by them (the hugs) but he really got into that one with Penny. As I said I would have felt uncomfortable being either Leonard or Amy.

I myself felt for Amy. The Leonard/Sheldon/Penny relationship has gone on for almost 9 years now living within feet of one another. Amy has always been the outsider. It seems they even gotten closer with Penny living in 4a. Until Lenny moves to 4b I don't see that changing.

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2 hours ago, Mislav said:

Dozens of post about how Amy's sole purpose is to be with Sheldon, and not a single argument to support that statement. 

 
 
By that logic, Penny is no better because Leonard has had a crush on her from the pilot episode and many of her characters arcs were related to her relationship with Leonard? What about Howard and Raj? They weren't even in the pilot originally. We still haven't seen Leonard's father, or any of his or Penny's siblings.
 
 
With all due respect (and no, this is not a way to cover up an insult), I have a feeling that some people just want to make Lenny appear better in comparison to Shamy because they are somehow dissatisfied with their ship. It is baffling. And that's all I have to say about that.

I do agree at the beginning many of the character story arcs for Penny did relate to Leonard. That changed when the appearance with Priya. There was season 4 and part of season 5 they weren't together. Not to mention all the guys Sheldon saw Penny with before season 3 , including Zack in season 4. Leonard had the Leslie hook up, Stephanie, Dr.Plimpton, Bernie's friend, and the old rich woman. Sheldon on the other hand had never ever been on a date ( or been with a woman) and the only person he has dated is Amy. So I think that's why people think Amy's sole person is for Sheldon.

i think this whole think started as tensor mentioned earlier is because of someone wanting to see Amy's father. I do think most on here would like to see Leonard's father and Penny's siblings before Amy's father because Leonard and Penny's have been on since the beginning.

i don't think Lenny fans IMO are disappointed in their ship but in the way TPTB are portraying them.

in regards to the two ships many on here think the show is nothing without Sheldon. If that was true then wouldn't Amy seem to be not needed? 

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3 hours ago, wowbagger said:

Wow, all this because someone pointed out that it was sort of strange that we don't have a single clue what is up with Amy's father, even though we do with Sheldon/Penny/Leonard/Raj/Howard/Bernie.

As to whether any character is indispensable to the show: Theoretically, no character is. Theoretically, every character is (even Stuart! I kid. Go away, Stuart). Schrodinger's Indispensability.

As to Sheldon and Penny's hug: I thought it was charming as hell, up to and including Sheldon's happy little smile as he snuggled into the hug he was being such a crosspatch about. Penny has long been the one to pull Sheldon out of his comfort zone, the friend who involves him (or the one he involves) in matters completely new to him. And the hug was really a prime example of that. Sheldon isn't a hugger, but his adoptive sister is. He has grown to tolerate them, even to volunteer them when he knows no other gesture will suffice. He would even miss them if the casual affection went away. But, being the curmudgeon he is, he HAS to bitch even as he is reciprocating the hug.

It was the scene in the bathroom that made me raise my eyebrows a little. I get that it was meant to mirror Missy: Sheldon's biological sister's insensitivity compared with his adoptive sister's greater empathy. I liked the moment and I think parsons and cuoco are reliably charming together.

BUT. It was, to me, the 'wrong' sort of sweet Sheldon/Penny moment. Penny is likelier to be the sort who would say 'it'll be fine! We'll protect you! If Leslie is horrible to you I'll go junior rodeo on her ass!' It is AMY who has historically been the one to understand Sheldon, to think he is fun and interesting and to enter into all the concerns that make everybody else side-eye at him. Sadly the writers at some point decided that it was funnier (ugh. To whom?!?) to have Amy play the role of long-suffering, snarky audience surrogate, instead of trusting the audience to laugh at two weird goofballs. But that is a rant for another day, and besides the show seems to be cautiously picking its way to an equilibrium where Amy is allowed to be weird too.

And, more to the point, it is AMY who has been the one to go to a panicking Sheldon, explain (without judgement or rancour but with understanding) that he can absolutely hole himself up in his room if he wants to, but that she is going to enjoy her Prom. Not babying Sheldon is an Amy thing, not a Leonard or a Penny thing. (with certain dishonourable exceptions. Oog.)

Which brings me to Leonard. Leonard is the one who tolerates Sheldon (as much as Sheldon infuriates him) because Leonard likes to be needed. Because somewhere underneath Sheldon's relentless selfishness, there is a fierce affection for Leonard, and Leonard's love -starved younger self recognises and imbibes the love and need like a desert drinks the rain (I...really don't know where that came from. Please forgive me).

But does that mean that I buy that Leonard and Amy would get into a pissing match with Amy over who has the right to look after Sheldon? Or that Amy is staking a claim to Sheldon's future (as vonmar said) while Leonard is holding on to his past? I would need to think about it. I am already quite disturbed that the show had Leonard try to one-up Sheldon's girlfriend over the relative degree of mutual nudity to which the other had been privy. This after a sequence where Amy was fixing Sheldon's tie in a manner veerrrry reminiscent of Leonard's fixing Sheldon's bow-tie in Prom. I know the writers frequently project on to Leonard (and have dragged Amy historically into a position where she has become a female Leonard rather than the female Sheldon of yore), but writers, you are letting your Sheldon-crush peek through in really creepy ways.

The dynamic would actually have made a lot more sense to me if we had seen Lenny arguing about the appropriate way to deal with Sheldon, while Amy went and talked to the guy. That would have drawn the line in the sand about future vs past effectively, without turning both Leonard and Amy into jealous girlfriends.

or! OR! Amy goes in after Sheldon, also freaks out, Leonard goes in after both of them, Sheldon and Leonard have an incredibly emotional moment that foreshadows Lenny moving out, THEN Penny comes in after all of them, saying 'it's getting crowded in here. Amy, your phone alarm is going off. Something about 'SH in Cambridge'? And Amy yelps and says 'I've got to go!', tells Sheldon it's fine, she can bring his surprise to him in there, and Penny dishes out her homespun counsel to all. Super PALS!

TL:DR: I like Shenny moments very much, but this felt really clumsy.

Maybe they're preparing us for this? :D

acgchh.jpg

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Actually it all started since somebody wanted to know some basic information about Amy's father, just if he is dead or alive, then it escalated quickly...It's really odd that Amy is the only character for which we don't know that simple stuff. When the writers told us that Raj's father is a gynecologist, there was not a whole episode about him delivering a baby, it was just a casual line that gave us that information. That's all we were talking about also for Amy.

Edited by mirs1
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