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So after reading the taping report a few times, I have a few thoughts...just my take on this...

The entire episode is about manipulation.  Sheldon manipulates Leonard via the RA...Penny manipulates Sheldon to get her way...Amy manipulates Sheldon by pretending to have liked the Relationship Agreement...Bernie manipulates Howard into treating Raj better.

Over the course of the episode, these manipulative behaviors are exposed.

I've never been a big believer in the Sheldon/Penny "special" relationship thing and now I am even more convinced that it does not exist,.  Penny has developed a manipulative coping mechanism for dealing with Sheldon....kindness, care and concern gets her what she needs from him (please note I am not condemning her for that).  When it comes to Leonard, she doesn't need to do that, she loves and trusts him, so she is free to be her true self with him

I think this is going to play out on screen way differently than it reads....thanks to BF for sharing with us.

 

Good points. I too think it will play out differently on screen and wouldn't be so bad. But i just hate the way penny treats leonard sometimes not just in this unscreen episode and i also love a bitch and moan.

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8 minutes ago, vonmar said:

So after reading the taping report a few times, I have a few thoughts...just my take on this...

The entire episode is about manipulation.  Sheldon manipulates Leonard via the RA...Penny manipulates Sheldon to get her way...Amy manipulates Sheldon by pretending to have liked the Relationship Agreement...Bernie manipulates Howard into treating Raj better.

Over the course of the episode, these manipulative behaviors are exposed.

I've never been a big believer in the Sheldon/Penny "special" relationship thing and now I am even more convinced that it does not exist,.  Penny has developed a manipulative coping mechanism for dealing with Sheldon....kindness, care and concern gets her what she needs from him (please note I am not condemning her for that).  When it comes to Leonard, she doesn't need to do that, she loves and trusts him, so she is free to be her true self with him

I think this is going to play out on screen way differently than it reads....thanks to BF for sharing with us.

 

yeah give all the kindness and care and concern to the man she wants to manipulate.......

and treat the guy she loves and trusts like crap...

what a weird logic......lol ..........which clearly is not true......... 

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37 minutes ago, vonmar said:

So after reading the taping report a few times, I have a few thoughts...just my take on this...

The entire episode is about manipulation.  Sheldon manipulates Leonard via the RA...Penny manipulates Sheldon to get her way...Amy manipulates Sheldon by pretending to have liked the Relationship Agreement...Bernie manipulates Howard into treating Raj better.

Over the course of the episode, these manipulative behaviors are exposed.

I've never been a big believer in the Sheldon/Penny "special" relationship thing and now I am even more convinced that it does not exist,.  Penny has developed a manipulative coping mechanism for dealing with Sheldon....kindness, care and concern gets her what she needs from him (please note I am not condemning her for that).  When it comes to Leonard, she doesn't need to do that, she loves and trusts him, so she is free to be her true self with him

I think this is going to play out on screen way differently than it reads....thanks to BF for sharing with us.

 

I like the way you think.

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50 minutes ago, vonmar said:

So after reading the taping report a few times, I have a few thoughts...just my take on this...

The entire episode is about manipulation.  Sheldon manipulates Leonard via the RA...Penny manipulates Sheldon to get her way...Amy manipulates Sheldon by pretending to have liked the Relationship Agreement...Bernie manipulates Howard into treating Raj better.

Over the course of the episode, these manipulative behaviors are exposed.

I've never been a big believer in the Sheldon/Penny "special" relationship thing and now I am even more convinced that it does not exist,.  Penny has developed a manipulative coping mechanism for dealing with Sheldon....kindness, care and concern gets her what she needs from him (please note I am not condemning her for that).  When it comes to Leonard, she doesn't need to do that, she loves and trusts him, so she is free to be her true self with him

I think this is going to play out on screen way differently than it reads....thanks to BF for sharing with us.

 

"When the gang decides to throw a viewing party for Game Of Thrones…"
Isn’t the primary intent of GOT about manipulation all around? Well…  :shy:

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*sigh*

this all sounds like a hoot /s. This show is so not about friends. And if Penny and Leonard lived away from Sheldon they would have a better chance of having their marriage work. But apparently watching the disintegration of a glorious and novel relationship that was built on the idea of hope, and some naivety, is more appealing in the current climate. Let's go set fire to something... it's what the people want.

On a brighter note,  on Castle, Rick is back with Kate. And they are not even living together, but they are having more fun than Leonard.  

I'm sure this episode will play funny. *Heavier sigh*

(and Raj? Told ya. They just went with the character.)

 

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9 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

*sigh*

this all sounds like a hoot /s. This show is so not about friends. And if Penny and Leonard lived away from Sheldon they would have a better chance of having their marriage work. But apparently watching the disintegration of a glorious and novel relationship that was built on the idea of hope, and some naivety, is more appealing in the current climate. Let's go set fire to something... it's what the people want.

On a brighter note,  on Castle, Rick is back with Kate. And they are not even living together, but they are having more fun than Leonard.  

I'm sure this episode will play funny. *Heavier sigh*

(and Raj? Told ya. They just went with the character.)

 

I think you have eloquently expressed the sense of loss that many Lennys feel today, NG.

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4 hours ago, Chrismo said:

I missed you on here when Penny found out that Leonard cheated on her. And Leonard deserves better.

The canon on the boat kiss:

From 8.24:

Leonard: '… there was drinking and craziness going on ...'

Leonard: ' … it was just kissing … and I stopped it, but it still bothers me and I wanted you to know ...'

Penny: ' … look I'm not happy, but I think I can get past it … we weren't engaged and it was just kissing ...'

Leonard: ' … it wasn't very good, she was a smoker and I'd just been seasick ...'

From 9.1:

Leonard: ' … if you're imagining it was sexy, it wasn't … we were both drunk … she smelled like an ashtray … the boat was moving and I chipped her tooth ...'

From 9.2:

Leonard: ' … well, you know what we did when we were drunk ...'

Mandy: 'Oh no! Did I sleep with you too?'

Leonard: ' … no, we just made out ...'

Mandy: ' oh, well good for me ...'

YMMV, but what we can glean from these exchanges: Leonard was drunk and seasick, Mandy was also blotto and written as promiscuous, so to me, it 'feels' when on the boat, for Mandy she was sampling men (and maybe women) and Leonard's number came up. They came at one another with enough force so as to chip a tooth, Leonard stopped it and Mandy didn't even remember the event. Again, YMMV, but to me although it's a drunken, very regrettable action, it hardly rises to the level of cheating.

And what has Penny done this entire season to Leonard? She has been dismissive of her husband and minimized him repeatedly. Unlike Leonard, who has demonstrated ample pain and regret for his actions, Penny shows none. And this latest TR only adds more to this rather unpleasant side of her character, especially fully knowing that the RA has been a bane to husband since Season 1.  

#FreeLeonard

#LeonardDeservesBetter

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6 minutes ago, 5Mississippis said:

The canon on the boat kiss:

 

From 8.24:

 

Leonard: '… there was drinking and craziness going on ...'

 

Leonard: ' … it was just kissing … and I stopped it, but it still bothers me and I wanted you to know ...'

 

Penny: ' … look I'm not happy, but I think I can get past it … we weren't engaged and it was just kissing ...'

 

Leonard: ' … it wasn't very good, she was a smoker and I'd just been seasick ...'

 

From 9.1:

 

Leonard: ' … if you're imagining it was sexy, it wasn't … we were both drunk … she smelled like an ashtray … the boat was moving and I chipped her tooth ...'

 

From 9.2:

 

Leonard: ' … well, you know what we did when we were drunk ...'

 

Mandy: 'Oh no! Did I sleep with you too?'

 

Leonard: ' … no, we just made out ...'

 

Mandy: ' oh, well good for me ...'

 

YMMV, but what we can glean from these exchanges: Leonard was drunk and seasick, Mandy was also blotto and written as promiscuous, so to me, it 'feels' when on the boat, for Mandy she was sampling men (and maybe women) and Leonard's number came up. They came at one another with enough force so as to chip a tooth, Leonard stopped it and Mandy didn't even remember the event. Again, YMMV, but to me although it's a drunken, very regrettable action, it hardly rises to the level of cheating.

 

And what has Penny done this entire season to Leonard? She has been dismissive of her husband and minimized him repeatedly. Unlike Leonard, who has demonstrated ample pain and regret for his actions, Penny shows none. And this latest TR only adds more to this rather unpleasant side of her character, especially fully knowing that the RA has been a bane to husband since Season 1.  

#FreeLeonard

#LeonardDeservesBetter

 

 

 

All you say is true. But the fact remains that Lenny lives in 4A because of leonard.

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5 hours ago, April said:

 

(I'm trying to post without quoting, but the quote thingy will not go away.  Sorry if it appears after I post...)

I so long for some tenderness from Penny to Leonard.  The brief moment when they were exchanging vows ("you're not only the love of my life, you're my best friend") in Episode 9.01; the moment on the sofa in 4B at the end of Episode 9.02.  Just more tenderness.  We have snark.  We want some love.  Not only #FreeLeonard, but #LetPennyShowHerRealFeelings.....we know they are there.

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And again I ask , what is the reason for Penny being mad at Leonard .....

If it is just because Leonard does not want to come to Sheldon's RA meeting...  then imagine how this looks and what this tells us as viewers about Penny and her feeling....

She gets mad at Leonard her husband...just because he does not want to go to a RA meeting he hates....and the meeting which Sheldon loves.... and this is the same Penny who earlier would have hated anything like this....

 

Clearly not a healthy marriage... I smell trouble/divorce... haha

 

Edited by vasu
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11 minutes ago, Lionne said:

And this has been happening for awhile. My "I'm done" moment came after the hoarding episode taping report, and this episode is just driving the nails home in the coffin. This show no longer makes sense to me, and the characters motivations no longer make sense either. With the possible exception of Howard, the characters have just been all over the board, for every argument one way there's an equal argument for the opposite being true, and I find it impossible to analyze or or understand the show's direction or characterization, and I don't want to bother trying as these aren't even likeable people to me anymore. It's a collection of really selfish, thoughtless, idiotic jerks. Really not what I originally fell in love with and signed up to watch. 

The actors are as adorable as ever, and doing their best. It's the writing that's been going downhill awhile, and at this point it's a total hot mess that I do not believe they have the foresight and wisdom, much less motivation, to work themselves out of. I know they are capable, but I think they have committed too much character assassination for the sake of the jokes - which are beyond stale now - to turn things around. 

I just cannot believe how far this show has sunk and how bad it's gotten, but now all I can do is just hate watch and throw up my hands at the absurdity. 

I agree. It has become so hard for me to be credible surprised by the writers. :icon_rolleyes:

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1 minute ago, Lionne said:

And this has been happening for awhile. My "I'm done" moment came after the hoarding episode taping report, and this episode is just driving the nails home in the coffin. This show no longer makes sense to me, and the characters motivations no longer make sense either. With the possible exception of Howard, the characters have just been all over the board, for every argument one way there's an equal argument for the opposite being true, and I find it impossible to analyze or or understand the show's direction or characterization, and I don't want to bother trying as these aren't even likeable people to me anymore. It's a collection of really selfish, thoughtless, idiotic jerks. Really not what I originally fell in love with and signed up to watch. 

The actors are as adorable as ever, and doing their best. It's the writing that's been going downhill awhile, and at this point it's a total hot mess that I do not believe they have the foresight and wisdom, much less motivation, to work themselves out of. I know they are capable, but I think they have committed too much character assassination for the sake of the jokes - which are beyond stale now - to turn things around. 

I just cannot believe how far this show has sunk and how bad it's gotten, but now all I can do is just hate watch and throw up my hands at the absurdity. 

Hate watch. Lol.

They are trapped in meanness, because they embraced lack of empathy when they elevated a character who doesn't, except for glimpses, understand empathy. They flipped the sweetness for a character that gave then permission to be uncaring. Then they dug in, because they can't say that is bad, because it would undermine their tent pole lead character. Then they wanted to make the lead look better, so they had to make everyone else look worse, to reduce the obvious contrast.

They are in a hole of their own making. And a delightful and unlikely pairing are reduced to props and sycophants who have surrendered all personal autonomy. Sheldon's question asked when he said "... if there is a church of Sheldon.." has been answered. There is a church and Penny has become a deaconess.

The finale will be a joyful release as, hopefully, my two walk out the gates of their compound.

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After season 8 i kind of figured there wouldn't be much lenny this season I'm not surprised tptb would throw lenny under the bus but I'm really surprised they seem willing to do it to shamy too. No idea what their up to

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47 minutes ago, 5Mississippis said:

No. Leonard remains in 4A because he deferred to his wife.

No. He lives in 4a because it is his choice. Just like it was his choice to live with Sheldon all these years. Just like it was his choice to kiss Mandy. It's not that I don't sympathize with Leonard but I don't buy this whole scenario that Penny is to blame for everything. As most know I don't like particularily like Sheldon but he is not totally to blame either. Leonard shares the blame that they all live in 4a.

31 minutes ago, phantagrae said:

Well, I must be stupid because I'm still enjoying it.

No. If I was only a Sheldon fan I would enjoy the show too.

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10 hours ago, wowbagger said:

firstly: Thanks to brilliantfool! I hope you had a smashing time!

now, on to the episode.

well, I am LOVING this great slobbery 'saisons Sept et huit, je t'aime', aren't you all?

Amy is jealous of Sheldon and Penny's Magical Speshul Bond? Oh, yes, of course. That festering jealousy that has only ever made an appearance in one episode of Season Seven, and never again-until, apparently, now. Sure, sure.

Amy manipulates Sheldon? Why hello there, table episode. Oh, how I loved you. How very much I adored your healthy, sweet natured, egalitarian dynamics.

Amy feels herself a martyr in her relationship and is only playing along with things about it that she professed to love? Charming. Yes, yes, show, I get that the 'faking it' is a nod to how foreplay-ish the Relationship Agreement is. It's only charming if we think of it as actual foreplay rather than your delightful trope of women suffering their menfolk's enthusiasms to get what they want. Lovely.

speaking of manipulation: Why, once again, is penny being shoved into a role ordinarily occupied by Amy? It is AMY who (sadly) manipulates Sheldon to get what she wants. Penny's role was to outright bully him. What the hell? And let us not get into the screaming idiocy of penny being the only one to get the hypochondriac, mysophobic Sheldon to take his medicine.

oh, and LEONARD is jealous of the magical speshul bond, now? Literally the ONE area where Leonard was not made to be needy and insecure regarding Penny was penny's relationship with Sheldon. So yes, absolutely, by all means, take that away from him.

but the magical speshul bond is twisted. Oh noes! Not twisted! Not the toothless vague affectionate magical speshul bond!

and just....the less said about Ugh, Raj, the better. Go fuck yourself, Raj.

but anyway, to review: Amy is a jealous, petty, manipulator displaying the borderline-abusive behaviour of wanting to isolate Sheldon from people he cares about. Penny is making deals with her brother/pet with no care for her husband. Leonard is an insecure wimp. Sheldon is a worryingly oblivious naif who is being played by the women in his life (for his own good, you understand). And all is well because of Howard's peanut allergy or something.

golf clap, show. Golf clap.

lol funny as always! Harsh-- but funny!

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At this point, it wouldn't remotely surprise me if the finale had Leonard showing up at Sheldon's door one night, saying 'I'm just a boy, standing in front of a boy, asking him to love me'. Amy may well know a thing or two: she had a fight with Leonard over who got to attend to Sheldon on his birthday. She fixed Sheldon's bowtie in that episode in an exact mirror of Leonard during the 'Prom' episode. And all the sedulous wheeling-dealing in this most recent taping report seems to be directed at pitting Leonard against Sheldon. And hey- it was Leonard Amy accused of manipulating Sheldon in the 'Table' episode, in the Season Seven for whom the writers seem to be at permanent half-mast in the past few episodes....

#can'tfightthisfeelinganymore #Shennyredherring #Nothingwrongwithalittlemanlove #Itwouldexplainquiteabit #MakeswayforPAmy

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28 minutes ago, Serena_nyc1995 said:

Oh come on...they are not all that bad. Sheldon saved Leonard's life and just set up a trust fund for Howard's kid .  He's not all bad.

2% good behavior does not outweigh  98% bad behavior it's not the church of Sheldon it it the cult of Sheldon 

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