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[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9


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13 minutes ago, JE7 said:

A half full glass is as good as empty if the glass is dirty and broken

... what?

I can't see how the scene camelliayao described is wrong or bad for Lenny in some way. It's obviously a joke and she definitely did not intend to get physical with him. I see it as Penny's way to point out what a stupid thing he just said. I was just worried it might be another dream sequence, so I wanted to know.

Seriously, I've read both taping reports for the next two episodes and I have no idea what the outrage is about.

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1 minute ago, JE7 said:

And some apparently feel that since "he cheated" he should happily take any shit she feels like giving him and support whole heartedly anything she wants or does for the rest of his life and consider himself lucky she even looks at him

He is, honestly. Cheating is one of the worst things you can do to a person. He's lucky she even considered taking him back and marrying him because most women would have kicked him to the curb like yesterday's garbage. 

I also don't see Leonard being forced to be with her. He has free will and can leave her if he so chooses. 

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No one is saying penny has to do this and that for him. Supporting Sheldon over her husband so in your book that fine. Getting angry at him in nearly every episode that's fine too. Because if Leonard did the same as what Penny is doing we all know she will be pissed off. So I don't get where its all misogyny on penny.

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And some apparently feel that since "he cheated" he should happily take any shit she feels like giving him and support whole heartedly anything she wants or does for the rest of his life and consider himself lucky she even looks at him

He is, honestly. Cheating is one of the worst things you can do to a person. He's lucky she even considered taking him back and marrying him because most women would have kicked him to the curb like yesterday's garbage. 

I also don't see Leonard being forced to be with her. He has free will and can leave her if he so chooses. 

He only kissed her. Now if he had sex with her I would agree with you. So a lot of people will forgive an SO for that. But yes I'm sure a few of us wish that to happen. Leonard get rid. You can do so much better.

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29 minutes ago, JE7 said:

So that gives her the right to belittle, humiliate and ignore the needs of her husband? Which is what she has done all season

She places herself, Sheldon and pretty much everyone else before him, that's not what a loving wife does to her husband

#freeLeonard

I honestly think it started more in the second half of the season. I was just rewatching 9x8 yesterday cause I wanted to see Amy & Dave's date and I was surprised how happy Lenny looked cause I forgot they were... Yes she made some jokes but they were more sweet than mean...

but in the 2nd half of the season it's a little over the line in my opinion.. :/

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8 minutes ago, JE7 said:

I call BULLSHIT! And since you seem believe that since she is a woman she can do no wrong and he as a man can do no right talking to you is an exercise in futility, so I wont do so anymore...

#freeLeonard

I never said she could do no wrong, but I do think her "behavior" is grossly over exaggerated. If you'd like to show me where I said she could do no wrong,  then please do. I'm simply confused as to why everyone is so angry with her when this has been consistent behavior for her character for years and also why "#freeLeonard" is now a movement, as if he's a prisoner. 

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Penny has allways wanted leonard when she couldn't have him all the way back to Leslie Winkle in the first seasons and took him for granted when she does have him its a pattern, the only question really is will she realize it first and fix it or will he and say enough is enough. But knowing TPTB we will just watch them continue the cycle for two more years

Edited by JE7

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Penny being unkind to Leonard is nothing new.  I think she's been that way for the last 3+ seasons.  I'm kind of surprised at the shocked reaction on here.  Well everything doesn't change when you "put a ring on it"

i work with a lot of men who are casual viewers of the show, and while they think Penny is hot, they all think she is mean .  If I say pick one of the girls, they all pick Bernadette.

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Maybe his father who spent years in a dysfunctional marriage can help him see what his future could be like and he will open his eyes and take control of his life from the dismissive wife and the user baby.....

#freeLeonard

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Penny being unkind to Leonard is nothing new.  I think she's been that way for the last 3+ seasons.  I'm kind of surprised at the shocked reaction on here.  Well everything doesn't change when you "put a ring on it"

i work with a lot of men who are casual viewers of the show, and while they think Penny is hot, they all think she is mean .  If I say pick one of the girls, they all pick Bernadette.

The thing is you can overlook it while they were dating, engage but now they are married I'm sorry it's just wrong the way they are writing them they are not even married a year and where has all the hate from penny come from. Its like every characters are changing for the better, lenny are changing for the worst. Why? I have said this a lot. Tptb are not invested in lenny anymore. It horrible to watch them on screen. I can't even watch previous seasons or read/ write fanfics because I feel that everything they have feed me from day one which got me into the show are all lies now. I really hope the final is Leonard seeing penny for the person she has turned into and walk.

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45 minutes ago, nibbler747 said:

Penny being unkind to Leonard is nothing new.  I think she's been that way for the last 3+ seasons.  I'm kind of surprised at the shocked reaction on here.  Well everything doesn't change when you "put a ring on it"

i work with a lot of men who are casual viewers of the show, and while they think Penny is hot, they all think she is mean .  If I say pick one of the girls, they all pick Bernadette.

We thought/hoped she had figured out what she wanted, that he really was her Strawberry PopTart only to discover she chose the bran muffin and then decided she didn't like the taste

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Watching Penny be snarky to Leonard and not standing up for him is starting to be like watching someone beating a puppy.  

You know I just watched that season 8 episode of Sheldon and Penny taking the love test and at the end they had a surprise birthday party for Sheldon.  So in season 9 they had an even a bigger birthday party for him, but for Leonard Penny doesn't know when his birthday is.  This show has officially become nothing more than a Sheldon Cooper love fest.

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Watching Penny be snarky to Leonard and not standing up for him is starting to be like watching someone beating a puppy.  

You know I just watched that season 8 episode of Sheldon and Penny taking the love test and at the end they had a surprise birthday party for Sheldon.  So in season 9 they had an even a bigger birthday party for him, but for Leonard Penny doesn't know when his birthday is.  This show has officially become nothing more than a Sheldon Cooper love fest.

Leonard's is just a puppet on a string. It's been like that since S7.

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1 hour ago, Tonstar17 said:

The thing is you can overlook it while they were dating, engage but now they are married I'm sorry it's just wrong the way they are writing them they are not even married a year and where has all the hate from penny come from. Its like every characters are changing for the better, lenny are changing for the worst. Why? I have said this a lot. Tptb are not invested in lenny anymore. It horrible to watch them on screen. I can't even watch previous seasons or read/ write fanfics because I feel that everything they have feed me from day one which got me into the show are all lies now. I really hope the final is Leonard seeing penny for the person she has turned into and walk.

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If something is a certain way when you are dating it's not going to change all of a sudden just because you got married.  Issues often get amplified after marriage not diminished.

They have a major communication problems.  They never told each other when they wanted to married, how, where.  If they were going to have kids.  When?  Get their own apartment? House?  They spend a lot of time together but never speak about the big "rocks" or topics.

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3 hours ago, Tonstar17 said:

And he has shown remorse and has done everything to show her he loves her and what does he get in return. Snarkyness, unsuportive, can't remember his birthday. Really do you want me to go on cause there more.

 

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Snarkiness, he does that to her as well.

She gave up living on their own because her husband wasn't all ready at that point.  

Not to mention according to a recent TR she is staying in a job she doesn't like and feinting happiness because she believes being successful will make her husband happy.

 

37 minutes ago, nibbler747 said:

They have a major communication problems.  They never told each other when they wanted to married, how, where.  If they were going to have kids.  When?  Get their own apartment? House?  They spend a lot of time together but never speak about the big "rocks" or topics.

To be fair, you can level that criticism to Howardette as well.  They had communication issues about having children going back to season 5.  Bernadette also didn't have the nerve to tell Howard about the pre-nup issue, nor howard about how weird his sex life was.  Nor was he completely honest with Bernadette about moving out right away at the beginning of season 6.

All of the three main couples have had communication issues to specific extents, that doesn't mean they can't have a good relationship for any of them.

Edited by meka3000
Comments edited or removed to comply with the recent rules update.

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10 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

She gave up living on their own because her husband wasn't all ready at that point. 

Penny was the one that caved into Sheldon in 9.04, she pressured Leonard into not moving out of 4A:

Sheldon: No, I do. Eventually you’ll want more space, and you’ll move into a house, and then instead of dinner a couple of times a week, it’ll only be a couple of times a month, and then it’ll only be on special occasions, like when Bernadette divorces Wolowitz. Or, or, or like when Koothrappali’s weird girlfriend admits where she buried his body. Or Amy’s wedding, where she’s marrying someone better than me.

Penny: Okay, look, we don’t need to rush into anything. All right? Maybe instead of Leonard moving in with me, we just leave things the way they are, and sometimes we’ll sleep over there, and sometimes we’ll sleep over here.

Sheldon: But mostly here.

Penny: Sure.

Leonard: Wuh, what about what you said in the restaurant?

Penny: Well, it’s not forever. It’s just for a while. If you want, we can think of him like he’s our dog.

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24 minutes ago, Tensor said:

 

Penny was the one that caved into Sheldon in 9.04, she pressured Leonard into not moving out of 4A:

Sheldon: No, I do. Eventually you’ll want more space, and you’ll move into a house, and then instead of dinner a couple of times a week, it’ll only be a couple of times a month, and then it’ll only be on special occasions, like when Bernadette divorces Wolowitz. Or, or, or like when Koothrappali’s weird girlfriend admits where she buried his body. Or Amy’s wedding, where she’s marrying someone better than me.

Penny: Okay, look, we don’t need to rush into anything. All right? Maybe instead of Leonard moving in with me, we just leave things the way they are, and sometimes we’ll sleep over there, and sometimes we’ll sleep over here.

Sheldon: But mostly here.

Penny: Sure.

Leonard: Wuh, what about what you said in the restaurant?

Penny: Well, it’s not forever. It’s just for a while. If you want, we can think of him like he’s our dog.

You left out the subtext of 3 scenes where she SAW how Leonard being separated was affecting him.  She made that decision AFTER she saw what it was doing to him.

Scene 1:

"Penny: What’s the matter?

Leonard: It’s harder than I thought.

Sheldon: Let me help you. L. E. O. N.

Leonard: That helped."

 

Scene 2:

"Penny: So, what are you thinking for dinner?

Leonard: Well, it’s Thai food night.

Penny: Well, honey, you don’t live with Sheldon any more. You can have anything you want.

Leonard: You’re right. But what? Mexican? Italian? German? Indian? Greek? Cuban? Chinese? Pizza? Barbecue? Korean? Korean barbecue?

Penny: How about Thai food?

Leonard: Oh, thank God."

 

Scene 3:

"Penny: Are you doing okay?

Leonard: I guess. I’m just, you know, worried about Sheldon.

Penny: Well, come on, he’s a grown man in his 30s pretending to be a grown man in his 20s. He’s fine.

Leonard: I hope so.

Penny: What else can you do? Move back in with him?

Leonard: No, of course not. I just feel bad.

Penny: Well, so do I, but don’t you want to live with your wife and set the thermostat to whatever you want and have your body tell you when it’s time to go to the bathroom, you know, not a schedule slipped underneath your door every morning?

Leonard: I did like that he had the weather on it.

Penny: Trust me, this is the right thing.

Leonard: I know. And it’s not like we’re abandoning him. Plus, we can FaceTime him whenever we want, you know, once iPhones are invented in his universe."

 

I disagree with you calling this pressuring him, judging from the subtext of the three scenes above and with Sheldon.  She clearly knew her husband wouldn't have a problem with it.  She read the people in the room from that night and felt it wouldn't be that big of a deal if things were changed back to the way they slightly were.

Edited by Tensor
Comment removed to comply with recent rules update.

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2 hours ago, meka3000 said:

You left ...

snip

...slightly were.

Your interpretation.  Doesn't make it right, nor does it make it wrong.  My interpretation, it isn't wrong, nor is it right.  

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49 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

To be fair, you can level that criticism to Howardette as well.  They had communication issues about having children going back to season 5.  Bernadette also didn't have the nerve to tell Howard about the pre-nup issue, nor howard about how weird his sex life was.  Nor was he completely honest with Bernadette about moving out right away at the beginning of season 6.

All of the three main couples have had communication issues to specific extents, that doesn't mean they can't have a good relationship for any of them.

Well we were discussing Leonard and Penny which is why I felt no need to discuss the communication issues of the other two couples.  Yes all three couples do have issues in this area.  Howard/Bernie have improved.  Sheldon/Amy, it looks like there is some progress but have a ways to go.   I see potential in Leonard and Penny but it just feels like they are both holding a lot of feelings in and it's building up.  Of course they can be a successful couple but it's going to take refocusing on both their parts.

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From the A.V.Club review (TBBT - The Solder Excursion Diversion):
www.avclub.com/tvclub/sheldon-and-amy-prove-big-bang-theory-can-mature-g-234646

…In order to show just how remarkable such a progression actually is, take a look at how Leonard and Penny are treated now that they’re married. They’re hardly even allowed to be a couple anymore. There’s no conflict, no emotion, not even that much love. Instead it’s just assumed that since they’re together now, everything is fine. It’s the show getting complacent, or perhaps not knowing how else to explore that relationship dynamic after years of “will they or won’t they?” storytelling…

…the subplot involving Penny, Bernadette, Leonard, Howard, and Raj is an example of The Big Bang Theory failing to find new ways to grow these characters, to push them to more personal and emotional revelations. That stands in stark contrast to Sheldon and Amy, who are growing into this admirable, flawed, supportive team week after week, episode after episode. The former storyline shows that The Big Bang Theory is hitting a creative wall in its ninth season, while at the same time Sheldon and Amy’s continual growth points to a way forward. As the end of the season approaches, here’s hoping the show can find some inspiration in the way Sheldon and Amy have evolved as characters.

I guess this statement accurately describes the actual dilemma of TBBT.

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5 hours ago, denajeanx said:

I'm asking what she has done that so awful? I personally don't think she ignored "his needs", whatever the hell that means. I also don't see how she has belittled him, maybe I'm watching a different version of Lenny. 

You are indeed. If you don't see the way she has behaved towards him since last season then there's no point in trying to show you.

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Any chance the return of Zack is just a flashback, and Penny is reminded of why she is with Leonard? or maybe she bumps into Zack and they have a cup and talk, and he somehow points out the things that she does that snarky and Penny does some reflecting?

I get why folks who ship Lenny are on edge about the return of Zack given the current climate, I dont blame anyone. But theres a possibility its not necessarily a bad thing.  Im hoping not anyway...

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53 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

Any chance the return of Zack is just a flashback, and Penny is reminded of why she is with Leonard? or maybe she bumps into Zack and they have a cup and talk, and he somehow points out the things that she does that snarky and Penny does some reflecting?

I get why folks who ship Lenny are on edge about the return of Zack given the current climate, I dont blame anyone. But theres a possibility its not necessarily a bad thing.  Im hoping not anyway...

Your right there is a chance it could play out as a positive, but given they way this season has played out the odds of it being good are very slim and many of us prefer not to get our hopes up, that only leads to us being disappointed yet again. Even if it plays out in A good way it will mean nothing if the next episode goes right back to the status quo any change must last before it can be accepted as real and I personally won't be satisfied with a one off episode as a bone

Edited by JE7

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