[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9

[djsurrey]

I'd guess the important thing regarding message boards is that people are talking about TBBT. Almost all fame invites negative comments. It is no comments that presents a problem. 

[ATOB]

7 hours ago, Thyanic <3 said:

 she doesn't remember her husband birthday but she was so excited planning Sheldon's birthday and taking the time to comfort him during his panic attack but leonard's childhood problems or daily concerns are always minimizing because you know it's funny, because he deserved it or because it's not important enough to get her attention, 

Y'see, for many that "you probably deserved it" from Penny to Leonard when he tried to garner some sympathy for himself and piggy-back on the revelations of Sheldon's childhood bullying trama seemed shockingly harse, but stop and think about where that came from.

Leonard has abused Penny's good nature in this way before, do you remember when she was reading his mother's book and he played on her sympathy to get sex from her? No-one likes being tricked. And, most certainly, no-one should ever be tricked (manipulated) into having sex with another person.  Penny called him out on his behaviour, and she's certainly having none of it now.

Trick me once, shame on you! Trick me twice, shame on me!

[Jonny]

It does look like the next episode is going to provide some ammunition for those that really dislike a particular character, feel they get too much attention or don't provide support to someone they really should.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Jonny83

[5Mississippis]

2 hours ago, ATOB said:

Y'see, for many that "you probably deserved it" from Penny to Leonard when he tried to garner some sympathy for himself and piggy-back on the revelations of Sheldon's childhood bullying trama seemed shockingly harse, but stop and think about where that came from.

Leonard has abused Penny's good nature in this way before, do you remember when she was reading his mother's book and he played on her sympathy to get sex from her? No-one likes being tricked. And, most certainly, no-one should ever be tricked (manipulated) into having sex with another person.  Penny called him out on his behaviour, and she's certainly having none of it now.

Trick me once, shame on you! Trick me twice, shame on me!

So in addition to being bitchy and mean, Penny holds a grudge? Greeaat. Especially in that episode Penny's response to Leonard's manipulation (baited and eager for sex, he's pantless, only to have his love turn the computer so Leonard is now facing his mother and while being psychologically dissected) was thermonuclear as well as being thoroughly humiliating and totally emasculating. After that, I'm surprised his dick still works. Yeah. I can really see why she wants to 'call him out' on his comments. 

[mphs95]

I don't think that Leonard's father should be shown positively either, especially with what we know so far about him.  Beverly was cold and critical, and his father seemed generally uninvolved.  He stepped aside and did his own thing with work and paid little attention to his children.  So what is worse?  The overly critical parent that was there, or the parent that couldn't be bothered?  Don't get me wrong, they are both bad, but I'd give the edge to being worse to Leonard's father.

I'm empathetic to Leonard, he had a rough start with a childhood like that.  I guess we all come to a point in our lives though, were we have to decide if we are going to be held down by our pasts or rise above it.  For the most part, I think Leonard had a pretty positive outlook and was generally good natured, so he did well.  This I note, especially at the beginning of the show.  Leonard seemed like a pretty positive happy guy.

I still think that Penny is going to see some sort of parallel with Leonard's dad and girlfriend and her and Leonard.  Well I'm guessing heavily here.  Who knows if they'll even cast his girlfriend.  But what if she's a real "stepford" wife, and Leonard really likes her.  That may freak Penny the hell out.

I could see Leonard's dad getting all in Penny's shit about how she's like Beverly in some misguided attempt to make things right with Leonard a la "save him from his life with Beverly". It will back fire in that Penny will freak out and take off, being the one to leave.

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[nibbler747]

15 hours ago, JE7 said:

It seems strange to me that as people start to call Penny on her increasingly cold and indifferent (sheldonish) behavior that many Sheldon fans jump to her defense. The show has gotten meaner of that there is little argument but that's OK because it makes Sheldon look more normal is the only reason I can see for this phenomena. Or alternatively we get male bashing and cries of misogynist and other buzz words designed to make her bad behavior the fault if others mainly Leonard.

Sheldon's behavior is not normal and Penny's problems are of her own making. They both need to grow up and accept the hard truth life isn't fair, we do have to do things we don't want to get by and the world neither centers around us as individuals nor owes us a damn thing

A few points.  

1.  My main point was that sudden dislike for Penny seems out of scale to anything she has done this season.  I just read through all the episode descriptions for this season, and nothing she did justifies this hate that is getting poured on her.  If anything she was much much worse in Season 7 and part of 8 towards Leonard.   I would be much angrier about those seasons than this one.  TO be honest , Lenny hasn't had much of a storyline of their own this season which sucks.  But most of the season they have been united in helping Sheldon with this break up.  Thanksgiving they both messed up but showed them loving and having fun with each other with the lingerie.  Valentine's seemed more like Penny dealing with not being 20 anymore, rather than Leonard hating.  The last episode she seemed so proud of him.

2.  I really don't think they are making the other characters meaner to make Sheldon look better.  That's my opinion of course.

3.  I find it hypocritical when Shamy fans get slagged constantly for blindly defending Sheldon, when I see the same being done for Leonard.  I say that as someone who likes Leonard.  You could argue that Leonard is justified in your defense.  But none of these characters are perfect.  None of them .

[djsurrey]

Overall the message from the writers seems to be that Leonard wanted this smile...

...but now what he has got is...

and the writers make it into a joke

so if you are looking for happy ever after I'm thinking disappointment is on the horizon. Marriage is not particularly happy on TBBT.

One example...

 

Edited April 17, 2016 by djsurrey

[Tonstar17]

It seems strange to me that as people start to call Penny on her increasingly cold and indifferent (sheldonish) behavior that many Sheldon fans jump to her defense. The show has gotten meaner of that there is little argument but that's OK because it makes Sheldon look more normal is the only reason I can see for this phenomena. Or alternatively we get male bashing and cries of misogynist and other buzz words designed to make her bad behavior the fault if others mainly Leonard.

Sheldon's behavior is not normal and Penny's problems are of her own making. They both need to grow up and accept the hard truth life isn't fair, we do have to do things we don't want to get by and the world neither centers around us as individuals nor owes us a damn thing

A few points.  

1.  My main point was that sudden dislike for Penny seems out of scale to anything she has done this season.  I just read through all the episode descriptions for this season, and nothing she did justifies this hate that is getting poured on her.  If anything she was much much worse in Season 7 and part of 8 towards Leonard.   I would be much angrier about those seasons than this one.  TO be honest , Lenny hasn't had much of a storyline of their own this season which sucks.  But most of the season they have been united in helping Sheldon with this break up.  Thanksgiving they both messed up but showed them loving and having fun with each other with the lingerie.  Valentine's seemed more like Penny dealing with not being 20 anymore, rather than Leonard hating.  The last episode she seemed so proud of him.

2.  I really don't think they are making the other characters meaner to make Sheldon look better.  That's my opinion of course.

3.  I find it hypocritical when Shamy fans get slagged constantly for blindly defending Sheldon, when I see the same being done for Leonard.  I say that as someone who likes Leonard.  You could argue that Leonard is justified in your defense.  But none of these characters are perfect.  None of them .

^^^

Leonard is not mean on purpose, that's the different. When Leonard realises he is wrong he apologies and tries to make it up , trust me Leonard gets stick when it is deserved. A lot of Lenny's have not forgiven him for the kiss on the boat including me and others things. Leonard has been there for both Penny and Sheldon massively and what does he get in return. Nothing but abuse most of the time. Your right Penny's meaness started in s7 and 8 but s9 is the last straw because now she is married she has gotten worst and there seems to be no hope in changes to her behaviour towards the man she supposedly love. I'm surprised that a lot of Shamy are defending Penny's behaviours, you would think they would understand after all the seasons where Sheldon basically treated Amy like penny is treating Leonard. I guess it easy to forget bad behaviours and just because tptb doesn't show Leonard with balls and Leonard easily forgives, ppls just assume he is okay with the way he is treated. I know it only a show but he has feelings and he is human. He feel pain even tho tptb doesn't show it, but apparently we have to feel sorry for Sheldon whenever he is sad or is wronged because he has feeling and now feels pain, but no one else is allowed to. Oh except penny as well. And I do agree that tptb are diminishing characters to make Sheldon look good, I have been saying this since s8. For someone that hates changes he has changed quite a lot in s8 & 9 and most of it is so OUT OF CHARACTER because no one can makes all those changes that short amount of time without therapy, expecially with all the baggage that he carries.

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[legacy99]

The best thing for me to happen would be for penny to break up with leonard. that way the good guy sheldon would have 2 women chasing him and I would have a good reason to stop watching

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[djsurrey]

...can't stop. We have a lot of new Star Wars movies on the horizon. TBBT makes the anticipation more fun.

Rogue One ... Rogue One .... Rogue One...

http://www.techinsider.io/what-is-rogue-one-about-2016-4

[brilliantfool]

I agree that Penny's been very rude to Leonard this season (she's still one of my fav characters and it won't stop my love for her, although I do prefer kinder Penny). Frankly, if I were Leonard, I would tell her to fuck off. But that's the thing - he doesn't! That's why I don't agree it's her responsibility. In my opinion it's 50/50. Yes she's rude, but he doesn't stand up for himself. 

And no, I do not consider it to be verbal abuse from her side. With Beverly, yes, I think she's an abuser, because you do not treat your child like that, especially not when he's little, she gave him many traumas with her behavior (that said, in my opinion Penny's sarcasm and remarks are 20 times softer than Beverly's sh*t). But now Leonard is an adult. He is perfectly capable of realizing his wife is being rude to him, and he does. Yet he does nothing to deal with it (not necessarily confronting Penny or leaving her, but at least he could start seeing a psychologist to sort this out).

I get it conflict is harder for some people... I have a few friends who have a hard time standing up for themselves when their loved ones are being dismissive to them. But in my opinion all people should learn to stand up for themselves... If you let people treat you bad and just hope they will stop by themselves, well... most of the times you will be disappointed.

That's why I agree with @nibbler747 , I don't get this hatred that Penny's getting.

[Chrismo]

8 minutes ago, brilliantfool said:

I agree that Penny's been very rude to Leonard this season (she's still one of my fav characters and it won't stop my love for her, although I do prefer kinder Penny). Frankly, if I were Leonard, I would tell her to fuck off. But that's the thing - he doesn't! That's why I don't agree it's her responsibility. In my opinion it's 50/50. Yes she's rude, but he doesn't stand up for himself. 

And no, I do not consider it to be verbal abuse from her side. With Beverly, yes, I think she's an abuser, because you do not treat your child like that, especially not when he's little, she gave him many traumas with her behavior (that said, in my opinion Penny's sarcasm and remarks are 20 times softer than Beverly's sh*t). But now Leonard is an adult. He is perfectly capable of realizing his wife is being rude to him, and he does. Yet he does nothing to deal with it (not necessarily confronting Penny or leaving her, but at least he could start seeing a psychologist to sort this out).

I get it conflict is harder for some people... I have a few friends who have a hard time standing up for themselves when their loved ones are being dismissive to them. But in my opinion all people should learn to stand up for themselves... If you let people treat you bad and just hope they will stop by themselves, well... most of the times you will be disappointed.

That's why I agree with @nibbler747 , I don't get this hatred that Penny's getting.

I think a lot of this goes back to the inconsistent writing of Penny. While she loses it in regards to minor things IMO things as Leonard's bank account or tricking Penny into sex. Him kissing another woman she really didn't get that mad at him. In regards to Leonard being an adult and should defend himself that is true in real life. But we could use the same excuse with Leonard that we use with Sheldon. He doesn't know any better. His male examples have always been submissive. 

[Tonstar17]

The best thing for me to happen would be for penny to break up with leonard. that way the good guy sheldon would have 2 women chasing him and I would have a good reason to stop watching

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I would rather Leonard doing the get rid. Don't want penny to have that satisfaction. Not like she would care anyway, we have already seen what she thinks of leonard this season, but it will make me happy...

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[ATOB]

38 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

It seems the whole scenario would of been avoided if she hadn't had Beverly's book. She knows his mother is a sore subject and then she persistently kept asking questions about the book. Did Leonard take possibly milk getting sex for all it was worth?  Yes. It must have difficulty for Penny to have to have sex with Leonard. Poor girl. I don't blame Penny for being mad at Leonard. Though IMO the punishment ,of involving Beverly to get "even",didn't fit the crime.

I thought she had the book as part of her psychology coursework? Even so, do you mean to tell me that if there was a book about your significant other then you wouldn't be curious enough to read it? Pfffft!

The punishment was gloriously fitting and perfect irony. Leonard used Beverley to trick Penny. In return Penny used Beverley to get even.  

And you make my point beautifully, why did Leonard 'need' to trick Penny into sex in the first place? Is she known for withholding the goods? Erm, no; no she isn't. So what was his motivation? Or is it perhaps that Leonard can be a sneaky lil' so and so when he wants?  (Gah, and he woulda got away with it if it hadn'ta been for that pesky Bernadette!)

I suspect he manipulated her because he knew he could, and it was to his own advantage, at least it was until it ricocheted and the situation was directly reversed, a little like having your own gun turned on you, no?

[vasu]

On April 16, 2016 at 8:02 PM, wowbagger said:

(nods emphatically)

But in all seriousness, my post was actually more about 'hey, how come Beverley gets so much stick for her treatment of Leonard, when we have a parent we've not seen before who stepped out on his wife, and didn't seem to have been a huge presence in his son's life? How about unloading on Deadbeat Dad, instead of clinical-hypercritical-but-still-there Mom? Why does the mother get so much criticism when, from where I sit, the father seems just as blameworthy?'

(Of course,for all I know, my Lenny friends may have been theorising about the shittiness of Pere Hofstadter in the Lenny threads for a while, and I just don't know about it!)

@Serena_nyc1995 @ATOB @wowbagger

 

its funny that no of mentions or complains when in this show itself... women are most of time right and men are most of the time wrong and have to apologize..... isn't that sexist ?? isn't that an insult to men's intelligence... which is so common in hollywood....

and where were all this complains when Howard's mother dragged an unwilling Raj into her house ..... imagine if the roles were reversed and if some character's father dragged an unwilling Penny or Bernie into his house... 

 

1 hour ago, ATOB said:

I thought she had the book as part of her psychology coursework? Even so, do you mean to tell me that if there was a book about your significant other then you wouldn't be curious enough to read it? Pfffft!

The punishment was gloriously fitting and perfect irony. Leonard used Beverley to trick Penny. In return Penny used Beverley to get even.  

And you make my point beautifully, why did Leonard 'need' to trick Penny into sex in the first place? Is she known for withholding the goods? Erm, no; no she isn't. So what was his motivation? Or is it perhaps that Leonard can be a sneaky lil' so and so when he wants?  (Gah, and he woulda got away with it if it hadn'ta been for that pesky Bernadette!)

I suspect he manipulated her because he knew he could, and it was to his own advantage, at least it was until it ricocheted and the situation was directly reversed, a little like having your own gun turned on you, no?

It has mentioned so many times by Penny that she uses sex to get things done... and she manipulates Leonard with sex..... so clearly them having sex mostly depends on Penny wanting it or not.....

Edited April 17, 2016 by Tensor
Removed comments directed at other members.

[brilliantfool]

On 4/16/2016 at 11:57 PM, 2L344 said:

The bold for me. I said a similar thing during nine episodes of Shamy angst at the beginning of this season. Im not suggesting there wont be drama with the couples now and then, uts probably a healthy thing that the writers shake things up here and there on such a long running sitcom to keep it from being miopic and stale and to advance character development.

But lately it just feels like just too much, and its with every character-- Howardette with Howard being lazy and not earning his keep, Raj and his gf issues, and of course the Lenny stuff. Yeah Shamy is in a better place but it took a long break up arc to get there.

While I enjoy the couples stuff and cute moments, I would like to see more of the things that make this ensemble so cool--geeky group games, weighing in the latest thing happening in real life, the gang sitting down to take out and coming ip with an event to participate in...

Its a sitcom and Id like to relax and laugh at the situations and character interactions without worrying about innuendo and what kind of relationship drama is about to unfold. I realize that the causual viewer of the show doesnt worry much about such things, but those of us that are fans dont have it so lucky lol...

I agree so much with this. I wish they'd do more of the situational comedy.
I'm watching another sitcom now, and it's pretty much situational comedy in every episode there, and it works SO WELL! And they have 5 main characters, I imagine there are so many more opportunities with 7! I wish tbbt had more of that.

I love Sheldon SO MUCH, but I feel like they're mostly relying on his quirks 70% of the time to  get laughs (and the other 30% on Leonard being frustrated with Sheldon, and , like you said, on Howard's and Raj's issues) and I think it just can get old real fast, maybe not so fast for the casual viewers, but in the long run , still.. And I just want the show to go on for as long as possible, and to have high raitings for as long as possible, and I don't want the casual viewers to get fed up with the characters, and to feel like it's the same old plots and drama recycled every season..
 

[vasu]

On April 10, 2016 at 2:48 PM, wowbagger said:

Okay, I'm not going to get into your litany of Sheldon's supposed faults, because they are largely irrelevant to @Serena_nyc1995's point. 

Once again, the issue is not whether Sheldon has or does not have faults. He does. This is stipulated. The issue is whether we believe that Sheldon gets called on his faults relatively more often than do characters like Leonard and Raj. My contention is that Sheldon gets implicitly and explicitly called out for a lot of his faults- up to and including his tendency to delude himself about his emotional detachment and whatever. The show may think it's funny to let him get away with his stunts (waaaaayyyyyy more often than it should), but at least one member of the gang will usually tell him that he is behaving badly, or being ridiculous, or whatever.

I can think of a few instances, on the other hand, where the show has had Leonard or Raj behave in ways that I, personally, think of as really reprehensible. And in both cases, the show has junked the characterisations of most of the gang (Sheldon excepted) to allow them to get away with it. 

Listen, I find it narratively interesting that Leonard would slip, feel bad about it, but also so terrified of losing Penny that he'd lie by omission for two years, and blurt out what happened at a terrible moment. I would be completely willing to sympathise with his self-destructive tendencies and explore them in-show. But only so long as the show were to allow Penny her voice to express her rage and pain, and to accept that said rage and pain are completely justified. If, on the other hand, the show is twisting the girls so that they tell Penny that hey, Leonard's not like that, and he came back to you, Penny, so it's okay? Well, if the show's doing that, what need do I have to sympathise with Leonard or root for him or forgive him? The show's forgiven him already. Actually, scratch that. Forgiveness implies that Leonard did anything wrong. And we all know that's impossible. Leonard was fucked over by his cold, uncaring harpy of a mother, remember? Leonard is self-destructive! Leonard isn't responsible or accountable! How could he be? It's Beverley's fault! (I'm exaggerating, Lenny friends! Not....as much as I wish I were, though. Show, please, please, please explore what is going on in Leonard's little noggin sometime? Leonard's pathologies are interesting, and it would give poor Johnny Galecki something to do other than react to Sheldon or Penny).

Again, the issue is not, for me, that Leonard cheated- especially since he was drunk and he feels terrible, and all that. If Penny had ripped him a new one, Leonard had apologised and done some soul-searching, then fantastic. Something would have come out of a development that was obviously taken directly from the writers' bumhole for the Season Eight finale. But nope.

And similarly with Raj. I don't mind the idea of Raj being so needy and desperate for love that he goes along with a relationship that he knows isn't right for him, and then fucks up. That is potentially interesting- if the show acknowledges that Raj's desperation and fear of being alone are leading him to behave in irresponsible and damaging ways. A very clear way to acknowledge that is for one of Raj's female friends to point out how shitty it would feel to be in a relationship you thought was going well, be dumped and then have your ex scramble to get back to you- clearly signalling that he was only in a relationship with you so long for all the wrong reasons. But the show isn't doing that. The show is heaping interaction upon interaction with Raj's female friends in which they coo maternally over him, try to set him up (!) with someone else, mock a clearly-distraught Emily when she reaches out to Raj (!!) and bitch out her manipulativeness to poor sweet innocent Raj (!!!). If nobody in-show is actually telling Raj, clearly, that he is being a douche, I have to believe that the show doesn't see his behaviour as douchey. And once again- why the hell should I sympathise with Raj and root for him to find his way if the show doesn't think he's lost? 

u lost me when u said that Sheldon does not get away from his acts and other people get away from their acts....

and what was @Serena_nyc1995 's point ... she was listing out points where she said why Sheldon is better than others (and why she likes sheldon more than others)....  and I was refuting those points..... 

and regarding my litany of Sheldon's supposed faults......... really ???? ..... 

On April 10, 2016 at 2:55 PM, brilliantfool said:

I agree he is emotional and sensitive like others, but I disagree he is ashamed of himself. If he was it wouldn't be an issue for me, I can love a character who is ashamed of himself, but I just don't see it.

Btw denying to others you're sensitive and lying to others about it is usually caused by being hurt and not wanting to be hurt again, not cause of being ashsamed of something...

u don't see it??? I can't help you... but sheldon in his own words (might not be the same) ... admitted that he is not the person who he says he is... and is emotionally attached to things.... so clearly he is ashamed of himself... and that is the reason for lying....

and for all the arguments about how sheldon speaks what he thinks and other bs.... this right is the reason not to believe it... because he basically lies about what kind of a person he is to others...... so why should anyone believe him.....

Edited April 17, 2016 by Tensor
Comments directed at other members deleted

[Chrismo]

5 minutes ago, ATOB said:

I thought she had the book as part of her psychology coursework? Even so, do you mean to tell me that if there was a book about your significant other then you wouldn't be curious enough to read it? Pfffft!

The punishment was gloriously fitting and perfect irony. Leonard used Beverley to trick Penny. In return Penny used Beverley to get even.  

And you make my point beautifully, why did Leonard 'need' to trick Penny into sex in the first place? Is she known for withholding the goods? Erm, no; no she isn't. So what was his motivation? Or is it perhaps that Leonard can be a sneaky lil' so and so when he wants?  (Gah, and he woulda got away with it if it hadn'ta been for that pesky Bernadette!)

I suspect he manipulated her because he knew he could, and it was to his own advantage, at least it was until it ricocheted and the situation was directly reversed, a little like having your own gun turned on you, no?

By the way how is that college work going. If I remember she had other choices in books and knew what was in it. She knew the book made Leonard look bad. And how did you know Penny wasn't withholding sex? If she hadn't he would of needed to do what he did. And the sex was only for his advantage? His only mistake was telling Howard. Granted it was a huge one.

[ATOB]

3 hours ago, djsurrey said:

Overall the message from the writers seems to be that Leonard wanted this smile...

...but now what he has got is...

and the writers make it into a joke

And so they should.  How is this any different to the guy on the street who tells me to "cheer up luv" cause that's what we're for y'know, decoration; decoration put there to brighten your day!

Penny is pretty, and that's enough! It's greedy of her to want anything more because she's just so pretty and it's not fair on the 'plain' girls if she's clever too, or particularly skilled at anything.  And, should it happen that she suceeds at something, well, it's only because she was so very, very pretty y'know. She got an easy ride, was probably sleeping with someone or something, that's how it works.  Cause, hey, all attractive people are stupid (and bitchy), them's the rules doncha know?

[Chrismo]

2 hours ago, legacy99 said:

The best thing for me to happen would be for penny to break up with leonard. that way the good guy sheldon would have 2 women chasing him and I would have a good reason to stop watching

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21 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

I would rather Leonard doing the get rid. Don't want penny to have that satisfaction. Not like she would care anyway, we have already seen what she thinks of leonard this season, but it will make me happy...

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Nobody is breaking up with anybody. The only threat of that is on this thread.

[5Mississippis]

On Sunday, April 17, 2016 at 4:33 PM, ATOB said:

No, that wasn't my point at all.  My point was that Penny has been burnt by showing sympathy for Leonard, he took advantage of her good nature and intentions for his own benefit, and she's not stupid enough to fall for it again. That doesn't make her bitter, and protecting yourself from someone who would take advantage given the chance is not holding a grudge, it's simple self preservation and common-sense. Clearly, after marrying a man who just owned up to cheating (and sat on this for 2 years) Penny is not someone who holds a grudge.

So you do admit Leonard acted badly? Well, good for you.  What concerned me was that you seemed to be condoning his dickish behaviour because, well y'know, he's just a loveable scamp isn't he, that Leonard, he means no harm? Which is rich considering the rejection of this argument from those who use it to excuse Sheldon's dickish behavior on here! The cases I quoted (girls disguised as boys) was an extreme example of tricking a person into having sex with you, that's all. Frankly, it confused me that you seemed to be defending Leonard's actions. If you admit he was wrong, why did you even try to defend his actions I wonder?

I wasn't defending Leonard's behavior in The Raiders Minimization.

Like I said in my second response, I don't think he still needs to be crucified for something two seasons ago where ample punishment was given -- which is the parallel you drew in your first comment. 

In your comments, you cite the manipulation in Raiders (in which there was profound punishment) and now the North Sea kiss. Well, Leonard did confess -- he could have kept it a secret and Penny would have never known, Mandy herself didn't even remember it -- and he showed regret and remorse for his actions, even confessing to Howard to ease his guilt. He also offered several times to Penny that she could opt out of the wedding -- despite this, Penny forgave him and went through with it. She also said Leonard was 'the love of my life' and 'my best friend'. Was she lying? Was that said under duress? Because it seems that towards the 'love of one's life' and one's 'best friend' some love, kindness, understanding, and forgiveness over human failings should be extended, rather than being a snarky bitch just to prove 'she's not stupid enough to fall for it again'. And if that's why she treating Leonard badly this season -- wow! Poor Leonard! Did he marry a heartless bitch! 

In addition, Leonard has quite a bit of good will and love that he has extended towards Penny over the seasons:

He put 'I'm thinking of you roses on her car;

confronted Kurt;

paid her rent;

brought her a car;

brought her plane tickets home for the holidays;

tried to help her succeed in school;

brought Wil Wheaton over to encourage her and support her in her acting career;

offered to publicly shame himself for reading her journal.

So rather than harboring resentment at being 'burnt by showing sympathy' and 'he took advantage of her good nature and intentions for his own benefit' maybe Leonard shouldn't be so heavily and continually judged by two events. Leonard's and Penny's whole story is greater than the sum of its parts. 

Edited April 19, 2016 by 5Mississippis

[vasu]

1 hour ago, ATOB said:

And so they should.  How is this any different to the guy on the street who tells me to "cheer up luv" cause that's what we're for y'know, decoration; decoration put there to brighten your day!

Penny is pretty, and that's enough! It's greedy of her to want anything more because she's just so pretty and it's not fair on the 'plain' girls if she's clever too, or particularly skilled at anything.  And, should it happen that she suceeds at something, well, it's only because she was so very, very pretty y'know. She got an easy ride, was probably sleeping with someone or something, that's how it works.  Cause, hey, all attractive people are stupid (and bitchy), them's the rules doncha know?

oh and how about all the athletic , handsome guys from the gym who are incredibly dumb and stupid.... cause u know only nerdy guys have to be intelligent....

and how about all the situations when the girls/wives/girlfriends are right and men are wrong and have to aplologize.... rules doncha know??

 

Edited April 17, 2016 by Tensor
Comments directed at another member removed.

[brilliantfool]

10 minutes ago, vasu said:

u don't see it??? I can't help you... but sheldon in his own words (might not be the same) ... admitted that he is not the person who he says he is... and is emotionally attached to things.... so clearly he is ashamed of himself... and that is the reason for lying....

and for all the arguments about how sheldon speaks what he thinks and other bs.... this right is the reason not to believe it... because he basically lies about what kind of a person he is to others...... so why should anyone believe him.....

you're right, you can't help me : D

I think you can be ashamed of yourself in some aspect of your life, but it doesn't mean you're ashamed of yourself overall
You may lie about one aspect of your life, and say the truth about the rest

[vonmar]

11 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

By the way how is that college work going. If I remember she had other choices in books and knew what was in it. She knew the book made Leonard look bad. And how did you know Penny wasn't withholding sex? If she hadn't he would of needed to do what he did. And the sex was only for his advantage? His only mistake was telling Howard. Granted it was a huge one.

He didn't just tell Howard, he bragged about it...

Leonard: Who just had sex with me at work.

Howard: Damn. How’d you swing that?

Leonard: Well, whenever I talk about how awful my mom was, Penny will do anything to make me feel better.

Howard: Seriously?

Leonard: Look, I mean, I’m not proud of it, but it does work. I got her to watch a six-part documentary on Monty Python. Even I was bored, I just wanted to see if she’d make it to the end.

Howard: You sound kind of proud of it.

Leonard: I am, I’m really proud.

[Tonstar17]

The best thing for me to happen would be for penny to break up with leonard. that way the good guy sheldon would have 2 women chasing him and I would have a good reason to stop watching

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I would rather Leonard doing the get rid. Don't want penny to have that satisfaction. Not like she would care anyway, we have already seen what she thinks of leonard this season, but it will make me happy...

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Nobody is breaking up with anybody. The only threat of that is on this thread.

^^^^

Well if Leonard had any sense & stop acting like someone with an IQ of a gold fish. He would get rid. That will make me happy, happy, happy.

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