[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9

[Tensor]

No, it actually fits here, as this was something brought up in the last episode.  And it could be part of the finale, for all we know at this time. 

[joyceraye]

3 hours ago, Kathy2611 said:

Penny has to MAKE Sheldon take his medicine?  SHELDON COOPER?!  The  germophobic hypochondriac who we saw skipping down the medicine aisle of a pharmacy (or grocery store)

< snip>

And that was just a little over 2 years ago!!

I can well believe Sheldon accepts being waited on hand and foot, likes the attention of having vapour- rub on his chest, and enjoys the Soft Kitty song  but taking real medicine when he actually needs it scares him to death.

[nickelette424]

4 hours ago, vonmar said:

Going to have to disagree with you here...IMO, The AV Club has a hard on for Mayim...the reviewers adore her and how her character has contributed to the evolution of Sheldon.

I agree.  One of my favorite things to do after a new episode is to read how fangirly the AV Club gets about Shamy and Mayim.  He has talked many times this season how much he loves that relationship and how he feels it's basically the only thing the writers have done right this season.

As for this episode, I, like others, wasn't a fan.  It was pretty aimless.  One of the things that really bothered me about this episode was Leonard.  I hated him here, like a lot.  We have seen Leonard get pissy about the RA before.  And what has he done then?  He storms out claiming he's done with it all and he's moving out and made actions to do so even if he returned in the end.  At least he attempted to take action.  Last night?  He just got pissy, and more pissy and whinny, and then just threw a tantrum for the first half of the episode.  He basically just screamed "I DON'T WANNA"  and sat on the couch and pouted.  This is the perfect time for him to say he's done with it and say he was moving out.  I can understand him being frustrated by his situation.  What I didn't understand was him continuing to act like a big baby.  That's not the Leonard I know and it wasn't a good look on him.  

What I saw from Penny early on here was basically her reacting to Leonard being a big baby.  She wasn't wrong.  Look, they signed the roommate agreement and they both new (Leonard especially knew) these are the kind of things they would have to deal with.  Throwing a tantrum and starting a fight about it is kinda silly at this point.  But, I can forgive that based on frustration.  Continuing to bitch and pout and being a jerk about it even when, as Penny said, he was just gonna make up with him anyway, I could not.  I understand why she had had enough and wanted to get away from him.  However, that says nothing about how I felt about the revelations that Penny manipulates the hell out of Sheldon to use him as a go between with her and Leonard to get her way.

And I'm sorry, I didn't see some strong Amy standing up for herself.  I saw someone who is often annoyed about something and the way she found to deal with it is to be passive aggressive and petty.  The only reason she said something to Penny is because Penny called her out for telling Leonard.

That lead to the only thing I liked about the episode.  Leonard confronting Penny on what he feels is a weird brother/sister relationship between her and Sheldon and in turn she confronted him on his weird relationship with him. THAT is the start of a very important conversation.  But of course that was immediately killed.  Just when the plot seemed to acquire a point, they ditch it.  And to be perfectly honest, on the surface, I don't think there is anything wrong with how close these relationships are or have become.  I find it sweet.  The problem is that it seems that after 9 years they have not adapted their relationships to work better with the changes in their lives.  A lot of it is a consequence of timid writing and not wanting to let go of the old dynamics while introducing new dynamics into their lives.  I don't want the bond between Sheldon and Penny or Sheldon and Leonard to be lessened in anyway.  I want those bonds to evolve to reflect where they are now in the other aspects of their lives.

Other points:

Hated the bullying of Stuart.  The 4 guys pick on each other, but they are a close group of friends on a rather level playing field who all give back as much as they get.  Here, it comes across as them picking on a weakling.  It was rather tame.  I just found it rather OOC, especially for Leonard.

Screw Raj.

Bernie is the only one of the 7 that didn't make me wanna slap them upside the head at least once this episode.  I believe this taping was the week Melissa was doing press for her movie.  She should give thanks for small blessings.

I wish that I had the confidence of others that this is a build up to changes in the living arrangements.  I just don't feel that will be the case.  I would love to be wrong.

Edited April 23, 2016 by nickelette424

[wowbagger]

4 hours ago, vonmar said:

On a basic level, I enjoyed the episode.  But when I read the reviews, which for the most part were pretty brutal for a BBT episode, I had to give it a whole lot more thought.  Most of the complaints were...

Nothing was resolved....old issues were rehashed without forward motion....can Raj get more weird & gross....

I was interested in the comment in the AV Club review...."Is Leonard truly sick of Sheldon’s antics, or does he see himself being replaced by Penny?" 

Major flashback to the 200th episode, Leonard and Amy arguing about who would get Sheldon to come out of the bathroom.   Hmmmm.

the Av club reviewer guy has spotted what we spotted back then. #shelnard twist #manlove

[Tensor]

53 minutes ago, nickelette424 said:

 

What I saw from Penny early on here was basically her reacting to Leonard being a big baby.  She wasn't wrong.  Look, they signed the roommate agreement and they both new (Leonard especially knew) these are the kind of things they would have to deal with.  Throwing a tantrum and starting a fight about it is kinda silly at this point.  But, I can forgive that based on frustration.  Continuing to bitch and pout and being a jerk about it even when, as Penny said, he was just gonna make up with him anyway, I could not.  I understand why she had had enough and wanted to get away from him.  However, that says nothing about how I felt about the revelations that Penny manipulates the hell out of Sheldon to use him as a go between with her and Leonard to get her way.

She wasn't using Sheldon as a go between, she was manipulating Sheldon to get her way on points of the RA, without telling Leonard (or getting things in the RA in her favor, instead of Leonard's or Lenny's favor.   So her manipulation of Sheldon is probably why she didn't want to support Leonard at the beginning.  If she supports Leonard, Sheldon probably doesn't allow her to get her way anymore, or he tells Leonard what she was doing.  

Quote

I wish that I had the confidence of others that this is a build up to changes in the living arrangements.  I just don't feel that will be the case.  I would love to be wrong.

Preach it sister.

[nickelette424]

21 minutes ago, Tensor said:

She wasn't using Sheldon as a go between, she was manipulating Sheldon to get her way on points of the RA, without telling Leonard (or getting things in the RA in her favor, instead of Leonard's or Lenny's favor.   So her manipulation of Sheldon is probably why she didn't want to support Leonard at the beginning.  If she supports Leonard, Sheldon probably doesn't allow her to get her way anymore, or he tells Leonard what she was doing.  

Preach it sister.

Amy mentioned that uses Sheldon so she doesn't have to fight with Leonard as well.  I think it is both.  And I am completely positive that Penny's support of Sheldon here wasn't an example of their "special bond".  It was an example of making sure she stays on his good side to continue to serve her interests.

[wowbagger]

4 hours ago, Kathy2611 said:

And the most stupidest line I've ever heard....

Penny has to MAKE Sheldon take his medicine?  SHELDON COOPER?!  The  germophobic hypochondriac who we saw skipping down the medicine aisle of a pharmacy (or grocery store) while Leonard & Amy had this conversation.....

Amy: I’ve never seen him this happy before.

Leonard: That’s because you’ve never seen him on restock the medicine cabinet day.

Sheldon: Look. A new topical antihistamine with lidocaine. Wow. I can’t wait until I get a rash.

And that was just a little over 2 years ago!!

 

Yes, oh, dear God, yes. Yes, show. Tell me some more about how the happy-go-lucky jock is the only one who can make the rule-bound hypochondriac take his medicine. Tell me more. WHAT AN ADORABLE YET SOMEHOW COMPLETELY INTERNALLY CONSISTENT NARRATIVE TWIST. 

And notice, once again, that the show has derailed two characters, but kept one immutable truth in mind: Sheldon must always, always be the one to be looked after. For the love of God, if you needed to retcon to hammer home the Magical Speshul Bond, show, couldn't you at least have had Sheldon be the one to always make Penny take her medicine? It would at least make more sense for Sheldon to be horrified at the thought of sharing a domicile with Typhoid Mary.

But ah, no, I forgot. For that to happen, the show would have to conceive of a universe in which Sheldon is maybe, possibly, ever-so-slightly the more functional one in any dynamic. And that.... yep, thought so. Here come the 'Does.....Not......Compute' and 'Divide By Cucumber Error' messages.

Edited April 23, 2016 by wowbagger

[camelliayao]

17 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Yes, oh, dear God, yes. Yes, show. Tell me some more about how the happy-go-lucky jock is the only one who can make the rule-bound hypochondriac take his medicine. Tell me more. WHAT AN ADORABLE YET SOMEHOW COMPLETELY INTERNALLY CONSISTENT NARRATIVE TWIST. 

And notice, once again, that the show has derailed two characters, but kept one immutable truth in mind: Sheldon must always, always be the one to be looked after. For the love of God, if you needed to retcon to hammer home the Magical Speshul Bond, show, couldn't you at least have had Sheldon be the one to always make Penny take her medicine? It would at least make more sense for Sheldon to be horrified at the thought of sharing a domicile with Typhoid Mary.

But ah, no, I forgot. For that to happen, the show would have to conceive of a universe in which Sheldon is maybe, possibly, ever-so-slightly the more functional one in any dynamic. And that.... yep, thought so. Here come the 'Does.....Not......Compute' and 'Divide By Cucumber Error' messages.

I want to print this and frame it. So true and so funny.

[April]

1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

Yes, oh, dear God, yes. Yes, show. Tell me some more about how the happy-go-lucky jock is the only one who can make the rule-bound hypochondriac take his medicine. Tell me more. WHAT AN ADORABLE YET SOMEHOW COMPLETELY INTERNALLY CONSISTENT NARRATIVE TWIST. 

And notice, once again, that the show has derailed two characters, but kept one immutable truth in mind: Sheldon must always, always be the one to be looked after. For the love of God, if you needed to retcon to hammer home the Magical Speshul Bond, show, couldn't you at least have had Sheldon be the one to always make Penny take her medicine? It would at least make more sense for Sheldon to be horrified at the thought of sharing a domicile with Typhoid Mary.

But ah, no, I forgot. For that to happen, the show would have to conceive of a universe in which Sheldon is maybe, possibly, ever-so-slightly the more functional one in any dynamic. And that.... yep, thought so. Here come the 'Does.....Not......Compute' and 'Divide By Cucumber Error' messages.

If I had to conjure up some of my magic handwavium I can easily buy Sheldon not wanting to take medicine if it wasn't something approved by the official Sheldon Cooper Medicine Cabinet Restock Committee or whatever. And by all means, I can't fault him if he's sceptical about any experimental drug Bernie might have given him!

But GDI, show, work with me here! Half a sentence and this whole scenario would make so much more sense than the idea that Sheldon of all people would randomly not want to take his medicine.

Edited April 23, 2016 by April

[Jonny]

11 minutes ago, April said:

If I had to conjure up some of my magic handwavium I can easily buy Sheldon not wanting to take medicine if it wasn't something approved by the official Sheldon Cooper Medicine Cabinet Restock Committee or whatever. And by all means, I can't fault him if he's sceptical about any experimental drug Bernie might have given him!

But GDI, show, work with me here! Half a sentence and this whole scenario would make so much more sense than the idea that Sheldon of all people would randomly not want to take his medicine.

I have a hard time myself believing Sheldon wouldn't take medicine himself, granted when he has the flu we have seen him being more dependent on others in that regard but all the time? I don't see it. He's such a germaphobe, the slightest whiff of getting ill he is the type of person to take something medicinal.

I can sympathize with Leonard to a degree but he's not saint himself, he will have manipulated Sheldon to get something he wants during those years living together. So why is he surprised that Penny does it?

 

[wowbagger]

16 minutes ago, April said:

If I had to conjure up some of my magic handwavium I can easily buy Sheldon not wanting to take medicine if it wasn't something approved by the official Sheldon Cooper Medicine Cabinet Restock Committee or whatever. And by all means, I can't fault him if he's sceptical about any experimental drug Bernie might have given him!

But GDI, show, work with me here! Half a sentence and this whole scenario would make so much more sense than the idea that Sheldon of all people would randomly not want to take his medicine.

come on, April. Join me on the Couch Of WTF. The showrunners do not deserve your indulgence and you know it. You give, and you give, and you work your fingers to the bone. And this is how they repay you . COME OVER TO THE DARK SIDE! We have cookies. And LARGE quantities of Belgian beer. And buckets.

[April]

7 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

come on, April. Join me on the Couch Of WTF. The showrunners do not deserve your indulgence and you know it. You give, and you give, and you work your fingers to the bone. And this is how they repay you . COME OVER TO THE DARK SIDE! We have cookies. And LARGE quantities of Belgian beer. And buckets.

LMAO I'll take the beer and have some cookies, thank you very much. But I'm not too bothered by most of this so you may keep the bucket.

[Stephen Hawking]

21 hours ago, SRAM said:

I don't understand how people can think Leonard was admiring Raj's situation?

Leonard has, previously, been impressed with/admired Raj dating two women, at the same time.

19 hours ago, 2L344 said:

Whether Amy replaces them or he tries going solo, I really don't care (as long as if he chooses solo we don't get a hurt and disappointed Amy out of it)...

I want Amy to move in.

Shamy belong together.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Stephen Hawking

[Kathy2611]

6 hours ago, joyceraye said:

I can well believe Sheldon accepts being waited on hand and foot, likes the attention of having vapour- rub on his chest, and enjoys the Soft Kitty song  but taking real medicine when he actually needs it scares him to death.

WHAT!!!???  When did they EVER show him being afraid of taking medicine?  The example I just pointed out was the latest example.  There's previous examples that I can name where he's WANTING to take some type of medicine for whatever lame reason in previous episodes but I just happened to pick the latest one!

[Stephen Hawking]

12 minutes ago, Kathy2611 said:

WHAT!!!???  When did they EVER show him being afraid of taking medicine? one!

I don't recall them, ever showing him reluctant to take medicine.

From The Engagement Reaction:-

Bernadette: You guys ready to order?

Sheldon: Yes, I’d like a seven-day course of penicillin, some, uh, syrup of ipecac, to induce vomiting, and a mint.

Bernadette: I don’t understand.

Howard: He drank from Leonard’s glass.

From The Plimpton Stimulation:-

Raj: When can I sit with you again?

Sheldon: When I’ve seen two consecutive negative throat cultures spaced 12 hours apart. You know the drill. All right, if you’ll excuse me, I am off to start a prophylactic course of antibiotics.

[Kathy2611]

23 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

I don't recall them, ever showing him reluctant to take medicine.

From The Engagement Reaction:-

Bernadette: You guys ready to order?

Sheldon: Yes, I’d like a seven-day course of penicillin, some, uh, syrup of ipecac, to induce vomiting, and a mint.

Bernadette: I don’t understand.

Howard: He drank from Leonard’s glass.

From The Plimpton Stimulation:-

Raj: When can I sit with you again?

Sheldon: When I’ve seen two consecutive negative throat cultures spaced 12 hours apart. You know the drill. All right, if you’ll excuse me, I am off to start a prophylactic course of antibiotics.

And this is just more examples of how stupid the line that Penny (or ANYONE) has to force him to take medicine!

[BigBang15]

8 hours ago, nickelette424 said:

 

As for this episode, I, like others, wasn't a fan.  It was pretty aimless.  One of the things that really bothered me about this episode was Leonard.  I hated him here, like a lot.  We have seen Leonard get pissy about the RA before.  And what has he done then?  He storms out claiming he's done with it all and he's moving out and made actions to do so even if he returned in the end.  At least he attempted to take action.  Last night?  He just got pissy, and more pissy and whinny, and then just threw a tantrum for the first half of the episode.  He basically just screamed "I DON'T WANNA"  and sat on the couch and pouted.  This is the perfect time for him to say he's done with it and say he was moving out.  I can understand him being frustrated by his situation.  What I didn't understand was him continuing to act like a big baby.  That's not the Leonard I know and it wasn't a good look on him.  

 

Unless Leonard knows for sure that Penny will follow him, he will never move out or threaten to move out in any serious manner. He is too afraid Penny will NOT follow (even to 4B). Whether what he fears is real or not, that is why until Penny insists or agrees to move out, he will stay put. That is why his only recourse is to sit on the couch and pout.

[Chrismo]

Just changing the subject and getting back to what might happen in the finale. The ending of season 8 and the first episode of this season ideally would have been Lenny married in living in 4b and Shamy engaged. Everyone knows the 4b and the engagement didn't happen. It seems the three living in 4a was caused by the Mandy incident(Leonard with Sheldon on his wedding night) and the Shamy break up. It seems they should go back and start over to when things weren't screwed up. That was when Lenny was getting ready to go to Vegas. It seems the first step may have happen with the idea of a wedding redo. Obviously with the parents there is going to be discussion about what going to happen with the ceremony. I gotta believe someone is going to bring up the living situation. This is going to bring up the engagement ring again because Sheldon was going to propose. Would it be impossible for a wedding redo,including a move to 4b, and a Shamy proposal in the same episode? I could see a Raj and the two women confrontation thrown in there for an added bonus.

[Jonny]

9 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Just changing the subject and getting back to what might happen in the finale. The ending of season 8 and the first episode of this season ideally would have been Lenny married in living in 4b and Shamy engaged. Everyone knows the 4b and the engagement didn't happen. It seems the three living in 4a was caused by the Mandy incident(Leonard with Sheldon on his wedding night) and the Shamy break up. It seems they should go back and start over to when things weren't screwed up. That was when Lenny was getting ready to go to Vegas. It seems the first step may have happen with the idea of a wedding redo. Obviously with the parents there is going to be discussion about what going to happen with the ceremony. I gotta believe someone is going to bring up the living situation. This is going to bring up the engagement ring again because Sheldon was going to propose. Would it be impossible for a wedding redo,including a move to 4b, and a Shamy proposal in the same episode? I could see a Raj and the two women confrontation thrown in there for an added bonus.

I think it would be very tight to pull all that off in just the one episode but who knows. It's bound to piss off some fans whatever they do especially if they rush through a particular plot development that they might have more of an interest in than other ones.

[Chrismo]

22 minutes ago, Jonny83 said:

I think it would be very tight to pull all that off in just the one episode but who knows. It's bound to piss off some fans whatever they do especially if they rush through a particular plot development that they might have more of an interest in than other ones.

I don't the actual redo is going to be much. More of a finality to what was done before. A Shamy engagement the same way. I think though though is going to follow some things the finale did last year but with a different ending. I think though an actual move to 4b is going to be handled the same way as Amy's first appearance. You meet her quick and by the season 4 premiere they were together. I think the move will be the same way. By the premiere next season they will be across the hall just like that. also there will be a baby on the way in season 10.

[Stephen Hawking]

2 hours ago, Kathy2611 said:

And this is just more examples of how stupid the line that Penny (or ANYONE) has to force him to take medicine!

Regarding medical related matters, we also know Sheldon likes getting his brain scanned.

[mirs1]

21 minutes ago, Jonny83 said:

I think it would be very tight to pull all that off in just the one episode but who knows. It's bound to piss off some fans whatever they do especially if they rush through a particular plot development that they might have more of an interest in than other ones.

I agree, as long as a finale with Lenny re-do and moving out and Shamy engagement will be something I would really sign up for, I don't think that all of that can happen in just one episode. Some of the events could seem too rushed or the amazing guest star involved could be neglected; moreover, would tptb be willing to give up so many milestones all at once? Given the clues at our disposal right now, I guess the only sure thing is the redo-ceremony, which can make a wonderful and drama free finale. I hope that, as a consequence, a change in the living arrangements could occur, maybe just discussed in the finale and to be fully realized in the first couple of episodes of Season 10. That, the interaction between Lenny and Leonard's parents, Mary being also in the episode (even if I'm not sure that she will be at the wedding, it could be just a phone call, for all we know) and eventually some Raj "drama" are more than enough for a 20 minutes show. 

[April]

34 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Just changing the subject and getting back to what might happen in the finale. The ending of season 8 and the first episode of this season ideally would have been Lenny married in living in 4b and Shamy engaged. Everyone knows the 4b and the engagement didn't happen. It seems the three living in 4a was caused by the Mandy incident(Leonard with Sheldon on his wedding night) and the Shamy break up. It seems they should go back and start over to when things weren't screwed up. That was when Lenny was getting ready to go to Vegas. It seems the first step may have happen with the idea of a wedding redo. Obviously with the parents there is going to be discussion about what going to happen with the ceremony. I gotta believe someone is going to bring up the living situation. This is going to bring up the engagement ring again because Sheldon was going to propose. Would it be impossible for a wedding redo,including a move to 4b, and a Shamy proposal in the same episode? I could see a Raj and the two women confrontation thrown in there for an added bonus.

If this all turns into a sort of "Once more, with feeling!" approach to everything that went not as planned at the end of S8/the beginning of S9, then by all means bring it on, show!

- Lenny wedding re-do now with family and friends present and maybe a nice party after wards? Yes, please!

- Someone brings up the elephant in the room which encourages Lenny to finally move out? That would be great! Bonus points if it ends with Leonard is carrying Penny over the step of 4B! lol

- Mary asks Sheldon about the ring which finally prompts him to do something about it? Sure, throw it in!

- Instead of Raj chickening out of breaking up with Emily he gets his ass kicked by her and Claire? CAN'T WAIT!

- Which leaves us with... Howardette and Stuart...? uhm Maybe they're nice to him for once and he's the first to get to know the baby's sex!?

[Tensor]

As wonderful as this episode sounds(wedding redo, living arrangements, Shamy engagement, Raj resolution) it ain't fucking happening.  It leaves everyone in a good place and that is against some damn law, set by TPTB, of how the show should be run.  It's entirely too happy. And from prior experience I'm willing to bet on where the drama comes from.  

[tallin]

6 hours ago, wowbagger said:

 COME OVER TO THE DARK SIDE! We have cookies. And LARGE quantities of Belgian beer. And buckets.

Cookies, beer,  buckets and shared self-pity ?

Did I just heard party?