[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9

[Tensor]

Two things,

5 hours ago, wowbagger said:

HA! Hoist with my own petard, eh? 

I'm glad you took this in the spirit it was given. 

5 hours ago, wowbagger said:

But in my own defence, I did also say later in Season Eight that the writing of Lenny made me fear for the writing of Shamy....

Yes, I remember, and my condolences for it coming to fruition.

 

 

 

 

[Chrismo]

33 minutes ago, ajond said:

Actually it was Penny who caved and agreed to live (mostly) in 4a when Leonard had already decided to move out.

But it took both of them to cave in. Leonard caved in to Penny. Where does it say he has to agree with her. I don't always agree with my wife.

[Nogravitasatall]

45 minutes ago, 5Mississippis said:

In the episode, it played out that Bev was bonding beautifully with both Amy and Bernadette, not so much with Penny. On the clinical level that Bev operates on, there was nothing she had to share with Penny. The formulation of new anti-anxiety agents with Bernadette; a doctor lecturing about them with Amy. To the writers credit, I thought how those lines played were very organic and well done. Bernadette, who I usually don't care for due to her abrasive nature, was a sweetheart here, trying multiple times to swing Penny into the conversation. 

To me, this didn't feel like Penny was 'sleeping with the enemy' the way it felt in Combustion -- with Penny disregarding Leonard and siding with Sheldon for her own gain. For me, the salient part was that Leonard's heartless, cold, clinical, unfeeling mother finally showed some humanity in noticing that 'Leonard [had never been] so happy' and, although it's not said, by extension, we know that it is Penny who is making him feel that way. Penny glowed and looked absolutely  radiant at Bev's comment -- making it one of my top Lenny moments, especially in a season where we weren't given a whole lot. Other than a crappy wedding and a whole lot of snark. 

"Karen approved". Ok, I'm looking forward it to it. Once those electrons pass our immigration controls. Got to make sure they don't carry bio-hazards or something - like the Depp's dogs - apparently.  

1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

But you have to give Penny kudos for being willing to pick up Beverly from the airport by herself. She also didn't have to spend time with her when Leonard avoided her. He avoided her before going to the movie thing came up. She even got Beverly to admit she wasn't a good parent. As to Lenny living with Sheldon there is plenty of blame to be shared by all three. It isn't just on Penny.

Not blaming Penny. It's the damn p..... thing. That's on the creatives.

[joyceraye]

On ‎05‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 9:23 AM, camelliayao said:

 

 

[joyceraye]

12 hours ago, A.D.A. said:

Yeah, there were a few, but they never stuck around. There were those two girls that Raj (or was it Howard?) and Sheldon picked up once. They ended up playing Guitar Hero or Singstar with them, they seemed fun. Then there was Leonard's first missstep during the relationship with Priya, and Sheldon's ersatz-date for Amy. On the other hand, you have the kind of mean-spirited throwaway jokes; the fat Sailor Moon Raj and Howard slept with and the (also fat) unsexy Wonder Woman cosplayer that Stuart dated come to mind. Haha fat women who think they can be desireable, what a knee-slapper. Anyway, I wish we had seen more of some of the women in the first category, too, or that Claire had been at the comic book store because she actually liked comics. But then, we'd have a woman character who couldn't shake her head at her boyfriend in maternally understanding, fond disbelief when the next round of comic book discussion comes around and that ain't happening.

Is this 'girls are not into superheroes and sci-fi'  idea a real thing in the USA or is it just a TBBT joke ?

It was fifty years after I gave up buying Superman, Superboy, Batman, Lois Lane etc comics that I first saw TBBT. I still watch Dr Who and  I added Torchwood and Sarah Jane when they started. I loved seeing a comic book store ( do they have those in real life ? ) when Stuart's appeared on TBBT and have been surprised all along that as a female I would have been thought unusual.

When I was buying those comics they were very hard to get hold of. The only way they reached paper shops in the 1960s was when they were used for ballast on ships and somebody at the docks took them and distributed them instead of throwing them away. So, when I was old enough to ride my bike all over the city going from newsagent ( aka paper shop ) to newsagent to see if they had any of these American comics for sale, I used to pick up what I could get. The comics  were in no particular date order and following a serial story was complicated. There was a lot of swopping and passing-round going on. I don't recall that there were any fewer girls than boys among the readers. When Star Trek and Batman reached our TV it seemed to me, judged by discussions on the bus on the way to work,  that more women watched them than men.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[2L344]

I'm a bit surprised myself that we went the rest of the season without settling the coitus question, and whether it was merely a "gift" to Amy vs. a change in Sheldon's mindset when it comes to physical intimacy. I do, however, hold out hope that this will be addressed soon after S10 starts.

The writers have been teasing and toying with the theme without committing to resuming what began in 9.10 and 9.11. Shamy appear more comfortable with one another, are communicating better (though this week's episode was reminiscent of old Shamy, with a better resolution), and generally have breezed through the second half of the season without serious drama.

We have Amy hinting to the gals that she knows what its like when things with "your man" can get out of control. There is the tease at the end of the hoarding episode where Amy asks Sheldon what he had in mind when he said he had a few hours to kill and he jumps on his new laptop to marvel at Amy on Skype lol...and of course, the cabin episode had the couch session where they got chummy continuing the drinking game (no answers as to the sleeping arrangement that weekend)...

So the writers havent forgotten the issue and it feels like they are building up to addressing it, which is why throw aways like the egg timer massage comment this week can be frustrating to hear. 

I think S10 will be one to watch for everyone--Lennys, Shamys, and Howardettes too with the pregancy in full swing. Heck, maybe Raj's love life will get resolved too.

Edited May 8, 2016 by 2L344

[BigBang15]

8 hours ago, nibbler747 said:

I found the conversation in the car between Penny and Beverly very funny.  No? I also found Sheldon bringing up Rosa Parks funny.

On the Lenny front, I thought it was good in that it showed Penny committed to her marriage by trying to develop a deeper relationship with Beverly.

 

No, No, No. The Shennys will interpret that as Penny is trying to develop a deeper relationship with Beverly because she (Bev) loves Sheldon.

[djsurrey]

3 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Is this 'girls are not into superheroes and sci-fi'  idea a real thing in the USA or is it just a TBBT joke ?

It was fifty years after I gave up buying Superman, Superboy, Batman, Lois Lane etc comics that I first saw TBBT. I still watch Dr Who and  I added Torchwood and Sarah Jane when they started. I loved seeing a comic book store ( do they have those in real life ? ) when Stuart's appeared on TBBT and have been surprised all along that as a female I would have been thought unusual.

When I was buying those comics they were very hard to get hold of. The only way they reached paper shops in the 1960s was when they were used for ballast on ships and somebody at the docks took them and distributed them instead of throwing them away. So, when I was old enough to ride my bike all over the city going from newsagent ( aka paper shop ) to newsagent to see if they had any of these American comics for sale, I used to pick up what I could get. The comics  were in no particular date order and following a serial story was complicated. There was a lot of swopping and passing-round going on. I don't recall that there were any fewer girls than boys among the readers. When Star Trek and Batman reached our TV it seemed to me, judged by discussions on the bus on the way to work,  that more women watched them than men.

I never paid attention to comics growing up but there is a comic book store in my neighbourhood today. I have never been inside.

http://www.centralcitycomix.com/ and https://www.facebook.com/centralcitycomix/timeline

 

Edited May 8, 2016 by djsurrey

[joyceraye]

5 hours ago, djsurrey said:

I never paid attention to comics growing up but there is a comic book store in my neighbourhood today. I have never been inside.

http://www.centralcitycomix.com/ and https://www.facebook.com/centralcitycomix/timeline

 

Wow ! Thanks for the links. I enjoyed looking at that. Love the Sarah Jane doll.

[serena_1995]

On 5/7/2016 at 11:01 AM, A.D.A. said:

Yeah, there were a few, but they never stuck around. There were those two girls that Raj (or was it Howard?) and Sheldon picked up once. They ended up playing Guitar Hero or Singstar with them, they seemed fun. Then there was Leonard's first missstep during the relationship with Priya, and Sheldon's ersatz-date for Amy. On the other hand, you have the kind of mean-spirited throwaway jokes; the fat Sailor Moon Raj and Howard slept with and the (also fat) unsexy Wonder Woman cosplayer that Stuart dated come to mind. Haha fat women who think they can be desireable, what a knee-slapper. Anyway, I wish we had seen more of some of the women in the first category, too, or that Claire had been at the comic book store because she actually liked comics. But then, we'd have a woman character who couldn't shake her head at her boyfriend in maternally understanding, fond disbelief when the next round of comic book discussion comes around and that ain't happening.

The girl who Sheldon picked up was Martha(season 3). She was cute . And she was into Flatland(yay, me too !!) and Green Lantern .

The girl who showed up, to date Sheldon was Vanessa(season 9), who also  spoke Klingon and Sanskrit.

 The girl that Raj hooked up with was Abby(season 3 same episode as Martha), she was also into Green Lantern

The girl who Leonard met at the comic book store was Alice (season 5), who designed her own comic books(so cool !).

So I agree,  that there were a lot of women of that sort. But it is annoying how the writers 'conveniently' get rid of them after 1-2 episodes, yet they have creepy lewd unfunny guys like Kripke on the show , all the time.

No offense, to the main female characters, but I personally, relate much more to girls like Martha, Alice or  Vanessa . Why they keep going back to the stale old trope of girlfriends/wives rolling their eyes at their spouse/boyfriends' 'supposedly' immature hobbies, is a mystery to me. At some point, all you can do is shake your head and move on. Lol.

Edited May 8, 2016 by serena_nyc1995

[Stephen Hawking]

1 hour ago, joyceraye said:

Love the Sarah Jane doll.

Me too.  

Definitely gotta me me one of those.

23 minutes ago, serena_nyc1995 said:

The girl who Sheldon picked up was Martha (season 3). She was cute.

She was more than cute, she was hot.

To paraphrase Amy:-

Not Amy hot, but hot.

In one of my fanfics, she caused Sheldon to have an erotic dream.

[Carlos]

On May 5, 2016 at 10:42 PM, Jedichic98 said:

It was a cute scene, it's simply a continuation of the relationship they've always had, that being they try to teach each other about their world. 

I know it's a bizarre concept in this forum (and I say that with affection ) but not every scene diminishes another. Maybe I'm a big picture person, but I see this episode ending with Shamy on a good note, and as long as it does that, then I can handle a little unpleasantness *shrug*

Sheldon's playing a game with Penny! (9x20 AmyxSheldon game, 9x22 SheldonxBernadette game) the guy just loves games and is always excited when his knowledge is expanded. (he loves excelling at everything remember?) 

1) Well, actually no. This is NOT the relationship they've always had. They haven't always tried to teach each other about the world. In the beginning Sheldon tried to make Penny feel bad by showing her how much HIS knowledge was, and couldn't have cared less about what Penny knew or didn't know.

2) Again, this is factually wrong. In a previous episode when Penny asks Sheldon if he knows something he tells her: "Penny, I have a working knowledge  about the universe and everything in it." However, when Penny asks him "Who's Radiohead?" Sheldon answers her: "Penny, I have a working knowledge of the important things in the universe." We can clearly see that he isn't always excited when knowledge is expanded, and he doesn't wan to excel at everything.

[djsurrey]

3 hours ago, serena_nyc1995 said:

No offense, I still like the main female characters, but I personally, relate much more to girls like Martha, Alice or  Vanessa . Why they keep going back to the stale old trope of girlfriends/wives rolling their eyes at their spouse/boyfriends' 'supposedly' immature hobbies, is a mystery to me. At some point, all you can do is shake your head and move on. Lol.

My guess is the writers work from personal experience and the writer/producers are older. Perhaps times have changed in America. 

[Lady in Red]

On 4/28/2016 at 8:55 PM, Jedichic98 said:

7 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

My guess is the writers work from personal experience and the writer/producers are older. Perhaps times have changed in America. 

 

My daughter is a comic artist.  There is a huge independent comics movement underway right now.  I follow a number of smaller independent comic artists and collect their work.  It isn't all the big commercial comics companies now.  And, it's moving more mainstream, such as starting to show up as educational materials in the schools.

[wowbagger]

4 hours ago, djsurrey said:

My guess is the writers work from personal experience and the writer/producers are older. Perhaps times have changed in America. 

That's true, to a degree- and sadly, times haven't changed that much. There is definitely a problem with female representation in comics. Last year, there was a chin-stroking panel about how to improve female representation in comics- an all-male panel. Even though an eminent female specialist on the subject was present (http://www.avclub.com/article/female-comic-creators-responded-all-male-women-com-220067)

Young women were, according to some comics retailers, their fastest-growing demographic in 2014: http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/comics/article/61533-despite-early-sales-slump-comics-retailers-remain-upbeat.html

And there is a new influx of female comic book creators, among indies e.g. Noelle Stevenson, and a ladyperson (Kelly Sue deConnick) being allowed to write Captain Marvel!

But:

a ) it may well be true that the writers are writing their understanding of the comic fan landscape, but if you are already incorporating current pop-cultural events, do a little more research into how things are changing.

b ) As @joyceraye points out, it's not obvious that women across the board did like this stuff significantly less than men. Take fanfiction, for example. for the show's own beloved Star Trek. As early as 1973, 90% of fanfiction in Star Trek fan'zines were written by women. Obviously, that's not necessarily representative of the viewership of Star Trek as a whole, but it does show that there have been passionate, committed female fans of cult shows for at least four decades- if not longer.

Honestly, I think the excuse of 'but girls don't like/know about comics!' is wearing a bit thin. The show's not the only culprit, by any means, but it's an obvious and famous one, so I am really comfortable singling it out.

And I'm going to suggest something else. The show's understanding of gender isn't just sexist, it's dated- and dated in a curiously artificial way. Girls, having naff-all conversation except about their menfolk? Guys, whining and slobbing about the house and expecting their women to pick up after them- and the women actually doing so? Complaining, but doing so? Guys, being enthusiastic about sex while girls just kinda....judge their performance, I guess?* Girls, dragging their menfolk shopping with them while the men silently die of boredom? Married couples communicating almost exclusively through complaints and bitching, but staying together because of....why, again?

I apologise to all my fellow forum members who can relate to some or all of these things, but none of this makes sense to me for thirty-somethings who aren't obviously socially conservative. Heck, I guarantee you that my parents (who are sixtysomething) would roll their eyes at the dynamics. And I distinctly recall quite a few forum members with grown children, and even grandchildren, who have looked very askance at the way the Lenny and Howardette marriages are portrayed. The writers aren't that old, for heaven's sake. This isn't the heightened absurdity of that broken bloody lift- this feels like the writers genuinely haven't seen how relationships actually work in real life.

And then it hit me. That may indeed be the case. These situations, I think, are written by people who get their cues on relationships from TV. Specifically, sitcoms. And these sitcoms were either based in the seventies (or earlier) and set in a different milieu, or were written (e.g. Friends) by people who also seem to have been raised by sitcoms. That's why the writers write like this. They get their understanding of romance and relationships from TV. And the shows they imbibe probably got their understanding from TV. And so on and so on.

This doesn't explain, of course, why the writers could write such delightful moments with the girls in earlier seasons. The death-knell for a female character on this show really seems to be a romantic relationship.

* Except for Amy, because- geddit?- she's a girl, but she's horny! Even though she's frumpy and hairy! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHA GIVE US A PEABODY!!!!!!!!!

Edited May 8, 2016 by wowbagger

[vonmar]

The Convergence Convergence Preview is up on TBBT You Tube Channel....

 

[Tensor]

1 hour ago, vonmar said:

The Convergence Convergence Preview is up on TBBT You Tube Channel....

 

I can't wait to see more of the Beverly-Alfred interactions. 

[Chrismo]

10 hours ago, serena_nyc1995 said:

The girl who Sheldon picked up was Martha(season 3). She was cute . And she was into Flatland(yay, me too !!) and Green Lantern .

The girl who showed up, to date Sheldon was Vanessa(season 9), who also  spoke Klingon and Sanskrit.

 The girl that Raj hooked up with was Abby(season 3 same episode as Martha), she was also into Green Lantern

The girl who Leonard met at the comic book store was Alice (season 5), who designed her own comic books(so cool !).

So I agree,  that there were a lot of women of that sort. But it is annoying how the writers 'conveniently' get rid of them after 1-2 episodes, yet they have creepy lewd unfunny guys like Kripke on the show , all the time.

No offense, to the main female characters, but I personally, relate much more to girls like Martha, Alice or  Vanessa . Why they keep going back to the stale old trope of girlfriends/wives rolling their eyes at their spouse/boyfriends' 'supposedly' immature hobbies, is a mystery to me. At some point, all you can do is shake your head and move on. Lol.

I think the mistake is thinking that Amy and Bernadette are main characters. They are not. There on every week and are regulars but there purpose is to complement  Sheldon and Howard. The premise of the show was about 4 geeky guys and the hot girl across the hall. The concept  of Abby, Martha, and Ramona was a one b storyline in one episode. The audience cares about the main characters. Even when they had amy come on in season 4 she was exactly like Sheldon. Now in Season 9 she is not because IMO that would get boring fast. In regards to Alice her purpose was solely to break up Leonard and Priya. Women may relate to Martha Alice and Vanessa in real life but not on a tv show. It has been discussed on this forum before how more women watch the show now than before. Obviously they must be okay on how things are on the show.

[JE7]

On 5/7/2016 at 6:28 PM, Chrismo said:

But you have to give Penny kudos for being willing to pick up Beverly from the airport by herself. She also didn't have to spend time with her when Leonard avoided her.

No actually I don't, she could have done for bev what bev has done for her and her husband. Absolutely nothing.

Let the hag take a cab, treat her with the same amount of love and respect with which she treats her son, not suck up and try to impress and "bond" with the woman who has literally made a career of abusing and experimenting on her own son and then writing books giving all the gory details.

If I were them Beverly would never hear my voice again nor would she ever step foot in my home or see any member of my family other than by looking at my Facebook page. Penny trying to "bond" with her isn't loving it's a for lack of a better word a betrayal she should be encouraging her husband to cut this vile cancer that is his mother from his life not encouraging it to grow

End rant....

 

[Chrismo]

13 minutes ago, JE7 said:

No actually I don't, she could have done for bev what bev has done for her and her husband. Absolutely nothing.

Let the hag take a cab, treat her with the same amount of love and respect with which she treats her son, not suck up and try to impress and "bond" with the woman who has literally made a career of abusing and experimenting on her own son and then writing books giving all the gory details.

If I were them Beverly would never hear my voice again nor would she ever step foot in my home or see any member of my family other than by looking at my Facebook page. Penny trying to "bond" with her isn't loving it's a for lack of a better word a betrayal she should be encouraging her husband to cut this vile cancer that is his mother from his life not encouraging it to grow

End rant....

 

My mother has a saying.Two wrongs don't make a right. The fact remains she gave birth to Leonard. No Beverly no Leonard. no Lenny.  Also later in the episode Penny got Beverly to say she was upset not be invited to the wedding and that Lenny made a good couple. It's not gonna make up for everything that has happened in the past but it is a start. Does it make Leonard and/or Penny better people doing what you suggest?

[legacy99]

If i was leonard I'd probably sleep better

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[Tensor]

6 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

 Does it make Leonard and/or Penny better people doing what you suggest?

Yes, it does.  It ends the emotional abuse she inflicts on Leonard.   Of course, that would be in a world where two married, making close to $300,000 a year, with or without financial problems depending on the situation, wouldn't be paying for two apartments, with an attached Sheldon.  

[Chrismo]

3 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Yes, it does.  It ends the emotional abuse she inflicts on Leonard.   Of course, that would be in a world where two married, making close to $300,000 a year, with or without financial problems depending on the situation, wouldn't be paying for two apartments, with an attached Sheldon.  

The thing is though to me it should be Leonard that needs to stop the abuse not Penny. Leonard went from picking up his mother from the airport to having Penny do it. I don't think there was a scenerio that no one was going to pick her up from the airport.

[JE7]

22 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

My mother has a saying.Two wrongs don't make a right. The fact remains she gave birth to Leonard. No Beverly no Leonard. no Lenny.  Also later in the episode Penny got Beverly to say she was upset not be invited to the wedding and that Lenny made a good couple. It's not gonna make up for everything that has happened in the past but it is a start. Does it make Leonard and/or Penny better people doing what you suggest?

No but it makes thier lives better, and the act of giving birth dosent give her a free pass for the rest of his life, I hear Hitler loved his dogs that dosent make up for his other failings

Ignoring bev isn't a second wrong it's a move to improve Leonerds life by removing a very negative influence that makes it a right

(And yes I compared Beverly to Hitler)

Edited May 9, 2016 by JE7

[legacy99]

I guess if lenny forgave Bev for all the pass insults that might make them the bigger people but what are the odds that Bev would stop insulting leonard. I would say about the same as sheldon actually acting like a friend to leonard

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