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I think the reason a lot of men relate to lenny is because penny is smoking hot & we fancy her & rooting for Leonard because he is a nice guy and wish we was in his shoes.

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41 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

 Agree with everything.

I think there is a limit of what we should expect to be happening off screen. For example, their kisses. Although we've only seen two on-screen Shamy date night kisses, but we know they kiss on every date night (at least before the break up). Because the writers told us kissing is in their RA. That's a reasonable speculation.

But while we've shown at least twice since 9x11 that Amy suggests to have sex again but Sheldon couldn't take the hint, it's illogical to speculate that they have sex all along off-screen. Also the writers made it clear their original "deal" was once a year. If their intention was for people to believe Shamy have sex more frequently than that, they wouldn't have had added that line in the first place. 

As for other forms of physical intimacy, since we don't know the status of RA, I can't say anything about kissing. But even if they still kiss once a month under the terms of RA, there's no progress in terms of physical intimacy after coitus. Coitus didn't bring them closer whatsoever. 

And yes, if the writers want, they can totally refer to things like that using one sentence. But they didn't, which made their attitude towards Sheldon's sexuality pretty obvious, which is also why I don't believe they'll address the coitus issue in season 10 either. They had plenty of chances in season 9 and they chose not to, so what makes season 10 so different?

Also there's no way they'll let Shamy have a conversation about their sex life. Because it's like opening the Pandora's Box. If they do that, they'll have to explain to us exactly things like: what Sheldon's deal is; if he has desires, why he waited for so long; if he doesn't, why did he sleep with Amy; is Amy Ok with whatever Sheldon's sexuality is; if she is, why all the complaining about their lack of physical intimacy; if she's not, why didn't she just break up with him. IMO the writers will keep everything ambiguous, so that they don't have to answer these questions.

Because Jim Parsons is hot according to a lot of female viewers?

I think to host a science show, she has to understand what she's saying though? Penny seems to find science tedious. She can remember the scientific terms but she doesn't understand the meanings behind them.

Although I love the idea of Leonard helping her get a job. One more time of "we are dreamers" or something like that I'm seriously gonna puke.

And again, that "limit" is subjective.

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1 minute ago, Mislav said:

And again, that "limit" is subjective.

Yes. As I explained right after that sentence what I think the limit is. I mean isn't everything we say here subjective? 

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11 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

Yes. As I explained right after that sentence what I think the limit is. I mean isn't everything we say here subjective? 

Yes, but you claimed that some parts were illogical to expect, which relates to the limit part.

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48 minutes ago, serena_nyc1995 said:

Thanks. Ofcourse everyone has their reasons for prefering a particular ship, but I was more interested why there is a bit of gender divide. Why is it that larger majority of Shamy shippers are women/girls. You did raise some interesting points, which I suspected as well.

I have read theories on why Spock appealed to many women.

from http://www.afterellen.com/tv/77855-sci-fis-leading-female-creators-talk-about-their-women/2

Quote
 
 

"When I was a little girl, Spock captured me because I kept thinking, ‘What if I could make him feel something?’ Everyone knew if they could just spend some time with Data, you would find that human emotion. And those are the kinds of things that women are interested in — communication and relationships."

I'm guessing Sheldon has the same appeal as Spock and Data.

I don't think there is much mystery to Penny's appeal.

 

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@camelliayao Can you explain the "we are dreamers" part?

Sure. Actually I think I've mentioned it before. Let me just post my old post.

I hope if Penny goes into science, it's because of Leonard not Sheldon. The last time Penny went to Sheldon for career advice, he told her to chase her dreams, which is quite lol to me because unlike Sheldon, Penny doesn't have what it takes to realize her dream.

The advice led to her losing her waitress job, her car and later failing in acting. If it wasn't for Bernie, she'd still be unemployed now. But it doesn't matter. Because eveyone has the impression it was Sheldon who helped Penny with her career while actually it was Leonard who bought her a car, gave her practical advice and supported her for years.

Then in season 8 they pratically made Penny dumb just so she could go to Sheldon again for career advice. Everyone in their right mind would choose to at least wait for the result of the audition then quit the current job. But no, Penny doesn't know. She has to wait for Sheldon to tell her.

It's like I'm Ok with them bonding, but at least make it less stupid.

Yes, but you claimed that some parts were illogical to expect, which relates to the limit part.

It was illogical to me. How about this, from now on, everything I said has a "This is just my opinion" attached automatically?

^^^^

Well said on all. You don't have to attach my opinion to all your posts when it completely obvious you are stating it is, if ppls don't get its yours then their problem not yours. When you are quoting what obviously happened on the show that different because that is the debate.

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7 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

Sure. Actually I think I've mentioned it before. Let me just post my old post.

I hope if Penny goes into science, it's because of Leonard not Sheldon. The last time Penny went to Sheldon for career advice, he told her to chase her dreams, which is quite lol to me because unlike Sheldon, Penny doesn't have what it takes to realize her dream.

The advice led to her losing her waitress job, her car and later failing in acting. If it wasn't for Bernie, she'd still be unemployed now. But it doesn't matter. Because eveyone has the impression it was Sheldon who helped Penny with her career while actually it was Leonard who bought her a car, gave her practical advice and supported her for years.

Then in season 8 they pratically made Penny dumb just so she could go to Sheldon again for career advice. Everyone in their right mind would choose to at least wait for the result of the audition then quit the current job. But no, Penny doesn't know. She has to wait for Sheldon to tell her.

It's like I'm Ok with them bonding, but at least make it less stupid.

It was illogical to me. How about this, from now on, everything I said has a "This is just my opinion" attached automatically?

Thanks. I had forgotten that scene. The last time I watched a season 7 episode was also the first time that I did, last summer. :icon_biggrin:

.....

I highly doubt that Penny will have a science-related job. That would be like the writers saying "We give up" (did I just hear a chorus of "They already have!"? No? Ok.). I'm sure they're capable of finding her a job that will suit her - something creative that she'll be good at which will make her feel useful and accomplished.

 

 

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Since it seems the thread has established that women mostly ship Shamy vs. men mostly ship Lenny, I wont chime in with my own Shamy shipping explanation lol. Don't wanna risk sounding like a grade A wus!

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The only thing lenny are going to win on this forum is that most men ship & relate to lenny that come on here. And the Lenny ladies are not interested in dating someone who is hard work. They like there men rough & ready cause life is too short so love the sweet leonard & Johnny's rigid look is a draw. . :)

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2 hours ago, camelliayao said:

Sure. Actually I think I've mentioned it before. Let me just post my old post.

I hope if Penny goes into science, it's because of Leonard not Sheldon. The last time Penny went to Sheldon for career advice, he told her to chase her dreams, which is quite lol to me because unlike Sheldon, Penny doesn't have what it takes to realize her dream.

The advice led to her losing her waitress job, her car and later failing in acting. If it wasn't for Bernie, she'd still be unemployed now. But it doesn't matter. Because eveyone has the impression it was Sheldon who helped Penny with her career while actually it was Leonard who bought her a car, gave her practical advice and supported her for years.

Then in season 8 they pratically made Penny dumb just so she could go to Sheldon again for career advice. Anyone in their right mind would choose to at least wait for the result of the audition then quit the current job. But no, Penny doesn't know. She has to wait for Sheldon to tell her.

It's like I'm Ok with them bonding, but at least make it less stupid.

It was illogical to me. How about this, from now on, everything I said has a "This is just my opinion" attached automatically?

That's not really what happened with Penny quitting her job.  Penny had a small part on a TV show, everyone was over to watch it, and then she found out her part got cut out.  She was super upset, asked Leonard if he truly thought she could make it as an actress honestly.  He said no because realistically the odds were a million to one in Hollywood, but then changed his answer to yes later, that he believed in her.  She got super upset and depressed and proposed to him drunkenly to which he said no.  Then the next time they spoke, she told him that she had quit her Cheesecake Factory job, because she wanted to really focus herself on acting.  None of this had anything to do with Sheldon (mid season 7).  Sheldon did tell her that the best way to success was to devote 100% of your energy into your goal.  But he said that to her after she quit, and when she was asking him if she was an idiot for quitting.  So he didn't really influence her decision.  She did that before ever speaking to him.

 

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1 hour ago, nibbler747 said:

That's not really what happened with Penny quitting her job.  Penny had a small part on a TV show, everyone was over to watch it, and then she found out her part got cut out.  She was super upset, asked Leonard if he truly thought she could make it as an actress honestly.  He said no because realistically the odds were a million to one in Hollywood, but then changed his answer to yes later, that he believed in her.  She got super upset and depressed and proposed to him drunkenly to which he said no.  Then the next time they spoke, she told him that she had quit her Cheesecake Factory job, because she wanted to really focus herself on acting.  None of this had anything to do with Sheldon (mid season 7).  Sheldon did tell her that the best way to success was to devote 100% of your energy into your goal.  But he said that to her after she quit, and when she was asking him if she was an idiot for quitting.  So he didn't really influence her decision.  She did that before ever speaking to him.

 

It still looks like Sheldon was the only one supporting her not-so-wise decision. Maybe if Sheldon didn't make his inspiring "we are dreamers" speech, she would have got her old job back or figured out something else. 

I'm not blaming Sheldon for Penny losing her job. I'm just simply pointing out the show makes a "moment" about how Sheldon and Penny are "bonding" and how they're the dreamers and Leonard and others are buzz killers. But it's not true. Because Sheldon's dream is realistic. He has what it takes to make it in science. Science is the only thing Sheldon wants to do. 

Penny, on the other hand, is not so talented in acting. She doesn't put much efforts into being a good actress either. How many times has she auditioned for all those years? What has she accomplished in acting? More importantly, she doesn't even really know why she loves acting. I think she loves being an actress because it's cool and it makes a lot of money. Well, in that case, I loves being an actress too.

Sheldon can make all the speeches he wants but in the end, when Penny loses her car, it's Leonard who buys her a new one. But all people will remember is how Sheldon understands Penny and Leonard doesn't, how Penny can open up to Sheldon because Leonard doesn't support her. Whereas in fact Leonard's the one who takes actions. He's the one who's honest and responsible. It's like if a stranger asks me "should I invest all my money into the stock market?", I'd say sure, why not while thinking whatever, it's not my money. But my one of my friends asks me, I'd give her a better suggestion. Leonard doesn't support Penny's decision because he cares. (I'm not saying Sheldon doesn't care. Although it looks like he really doesn't)

So no, they're not both dreamers. Sheldon's a dreamer. Penny is just a day dreamer.

 

Edited by camelliayao
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Alot of men are more Lenny's then women Yes because of Penny. But alot of men can relate to the nerdy guy desiring the hot girl. And theirs alot of guys here Tensor? Who married a Penny type Alot of women can here can relate to Amy more. And think Jim is "hot". Just like I think Kaley is hot. Simple really. It's just a matter of who you relate too. I actully agree with the notion Sheldon is like a stranger to PEnny. Sheldon doesen't actually care about Penny. Not enough to care about what she does with her life. He jsut says things like where dreamers e.t.c. But it doesen't hold any weight to him weeks later. Leonard however actually cares deeply how it effects Pennys life on the long term. He is the honest and responsible one, hence why his comments mean more to her. ITs proof his words effected her actions after she lost her job more then Sheldon or anyone. Obviousley he bought her a car. But by Leonard telling her Acting prob not going to happen. He did this because he loves her. Sheldon just doesen't have the same time or investment Leonard has in PEnny. 

Edited by 3ku11
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2 hours ago, Tonstar17 said:

 

 

The only thing lenny are going to win on this forum is that most men ship & relate to lenny that come on here. And the Lenny ladies are not interested in dating someone who is hard work. They like there men rough & ready cause life is too short so love the sweet leonard & Johnny's rigid look is a draw. . :)

 

 

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Leonard does have a sweetness and vulnerability which  appeals to me. He has found a career he loves, but what he wants even more is to love and be loved. ( Who doesn't?) And even though he's shy and doesn't have a lot of confidence, he looks to Penny for that love and goes for it. He's also kind of a cute little guy who is usually thoughtful, kind and funny. Imo.

And I think Johnny is "rugged" and  very appealing. ( I think rugged was auto corrected to rigid.)

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I'm just saying sometimes the show is really not being fair when it comes Amy and Leonard. It gives its most touching, memorable moments to Sheldon (and maybe Penny).

For example, we all got to see how heartbroken Sheldon was because of the break up but we saw very little of Amy's POV. Wasn't Amy heartbroken when Sheldon escaped for a month and a half? Wasn't she panic when Sheldon broke up with her over a table? I'm sure she was. But did the show give us any of these heartbroken moments? No. As a result, many people blame Amy for breaking Sheldon's heart (If you don't believe me, just read the posts on Shamy thread before 9x10). She's portrayed so cold-hearted and emotionless to the point some people thinks she's only with Sheldon for sex lol.

Take Sheldon's birthday party as another example. I think there's no doubt that S&P hug was the highlight of that episode. But if you think about it, Amy's gift was getting Stephen Hawking to sing Happy Birthday to Sheldon. Leonard's gift was inviting Adam West. What was Penny's gift? She gave Sheldon a hug.

A HUG.

But it doesn't matter because all people will remember is how heartwarming Penny's gift is. 

 

 

Edited by camelliayao
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On 5/24/2016 at 0:17 PM, camelliayao said:

A HUG.

To be fair, Penny was also one of the birthday party organizers and acted as the party hostess since it was held in their apartment.  

Mayim blogged about two of the scenes where she was able to show Amy's heartbreak during the break-up.  She specifically mentions the elevator hallway scene in 9x5 where Amy finds out that Sheldon is moving on, and the driving scene in 9x9 where he rejects her offer to be his girlfriend again. 

 

Edited by Lady in Red

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15 minutes ago, Lady in Red said:

To be fair, Penny was also one of the birthday party organizers and acted as the party hostess since it was held in their apartment.  

Mayim blogged about two of the scenes where she was able to show Amy's heartbreak during the break-up.  She specifically mentions the elevator hallway scene in 9x5 where Amy finds out that Sheldon is moving on, and the driving scene on 9x9 where he rejects her offer to be his girlfriend again. 

 

From their earlier conversation in that episode (Penny, Amy and Bernie asked Sheldon about music, cake, etc). I'd say the three girls organized the party. Penny was in 4A preparing for the party because Amy had to be with Sheldon in 4B. It doesn't mean Penny organized the party all on her own. And while we're on it, this is another example of the show's unfairness. The party was Amy's idea so I'm sure she helped organize it. But we were only shown Penny busy preparing for it.

As for Amy's heartbreak, the first heartbreak moment was when she found out Sheldon dated others and the second one was when she got rejected by Sheldon. Both were not how the break up made her sad. I don't see how those two can even remotely compete with The Spock Resonance in regarding of getting people's sympathy. In fact, I think a lot of people said Amy had no one to blame but herself after 9x09. 

Edited by camelliayao
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1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

Alot of men are more Lenny's then women Yes because of Penny. But alot of men can relate to the nerdy guy desiring the hot girl. And theirs alot of guys here Tensor? Who married a Penny type Alot of women can here can relate to Amy more. And think Jim is "hot". Just like I think Kaley is hot. Simple really. It's just a matter of who you relate too. 

JMO but Jim being "hot" seems to be in regards to this thread and fans of the show. Kaley being "hot" is not just thought by fans of the show. The problem with the Leonard and the nerdy guy story is that it 's basically over. He got the girl.

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5 hours ago, camelliayao said:

It still looks like Sheldon was the only one supporting her not-so-wise decision. Maybe if Sheldon didn't make his inspiring "we are dreamers" speech, she would have got her old job back or figured out something else. 

I'm not blaming Sheldon for Penny losing her job. I'm just simply pointing out the show makes a "moment" about how Sheldon and Penny are "bonding" and how they're the dreamers and Leonard and others are buzz killers. But it's not true. Because Sheldon's dream is realistic. He has what it takes to make it in science. Science is the only thing Sheldon wants to do. 

Penny, on the other hand, is not so talented in acting. She doesn't put much efforts into being a good actress either. How many times has she auditioned for all those years? What has she accomplished in acting? More importantly, she doesn't even really know why she loves acting. I think she loves being an actress because it's cool and it makes a lot of money. Well, in that case, I loves being an actress too.

Sheldon can make all the speeches he wants but in the end, when Penny loses her car, it's Leonard who buys her a new one. But all people will remember is how Sheldon understands Penny and Leonard doesn't, how Penny can open up to Sheldon because Leonard doesn't support her. Whereas in fact Leonard's the one who takes actions. He's the one who's honest and responsible. It's like if a stranger asks me "should I invest all my money into the stock market?", I'd say sure, why not while thinking whatever, it's not my money. But my one of my friends asks me, I'd give her a better suggestion. Leonard doesn't support Penny's decision because he cares. (I'm not saying Sheldon doesn't care. Although it looks like he really doesn't)

So no, they're not both dreamers. Sheldon's a dreamer. Penny is just a day dreamer.

 

In the first post of yours I quoted none of the things you mentioned actually happened.  He didn't tell her to chase her dreams which led to her quitting and the rest.  

I'm not arguing about how Leonard has treated her.  He loves her deeply and has been there for her all these years.  It's very clear to me.  Penny loves Leonard also but she doesn't articulate it as well as he does.

I like the Sheldon and Penny friendship.  I always have.  I think it's healthy and good to have hetero friendships.  Them discussing things doesn't diminish the their own relationships with their respective partners.  Sometimes you need a different perspective from your partners.  There is less pressure sometimes.  You care a lot about what your partner thinks, so sometimes you want to throw ideas off someone you are not so emotionally invested in. 

As for the 200th, their friendship has come a long way and I thought the hug was sweet.  i know you feel differently, but it didn't bother this Shamy shipper.

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39 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

JMO but Jim being "hot" seems to be in regards to this thread and fans of the show. Kaley being "hot" is not just thought by fans of the show. The problem with the Leonard and the nerdy guy story is that it 's basically over. He got the girl.

I have a story about this... It involves ladders,  beaches and let's say Northern European sensibilities ... um, but to get to the point, monkey curiosity seems to always think the grass is greener.  People like to held in suspense. But, they could write entertaining married couple stuff, I think. It might be less broadly appealing, which is why they don't.

If Leonard and Penny turned out to be so into each other, then there is no room for Sheldon, which goes back to the creakiness of the premise. L/P guys have no private space. Why hang in Leonards room for instance? Because they don't own the other spaces. All for the sake of Sheldon's special genius needs and with Penny and Leonard's forbearance? It's such a stretch - that does also prolong the Shamy URST, because they won't let that bait fall off the hook.  

So, they take the easy win and rely on inertia, and the odd toss of a bone, to keep the audience. Good commercial sense, really. 

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2 hours ago, nibbler747 said:

In the first post of yours I quoted none of the things you mentioned actually happened.  He didn't tell her to chase her dreams which led to her quitting and the rest.  

I'm not arguing about how Leonard has treated her.  He loves her deeply and has been there for her all these years.  It's very clear to me.  Penny loves Leonard also but she doesn't articulate it as well as he does.

I like the Sheldon and Penny friendship.  I always have.  I think it's healthy and good to have hetero friendships.  Them discussing things doesn't diminish the their own relationships with their respective partners.  Sometimes you need a different perspective from your partners.  There is less pressure sometimes.  You care a lot about what your partner thinks, so sometimes you want to throw ideas off someone you are not so emotionally invested in. 

As for the 200th, their friendship has come a long way and I thought the hug was sweet.  i know you feel differently, but it didn't bother this Shamy shipper.

But to me his advice did cause her to continue with her decisions, which later causing her car and the chance of other options. So yeah, I'll take the "losing her job" part out, but I still mean it for the rest of my post.

Also, I think the Shenny car moment did diminish the Lenny relationship because it left people the impression that Sheldon supported her and Leonard didn't. But in fact Sheldon was not being responsible or realistic. He didn't take Penny's problem seriously. While Leonard was giving practical advices. And yes, she did get another perspective, but that perspective was wrong...

As for the 200th episode. I agree the S&P friendship has come a long way. But so has the S&L friendship. I wonder why the writers feel no need to give them a big, sweet hug.

Anyway thanks for pointing out my mistakes:) 

Edited by camelliayao

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SP? They have a great friendship end of. I am not threatned by their friendship. I have always ejoyed it. Well most of the time lol. I just think its time for LEnny to ride into the sunset. I always knew LEnny well always be cannon, so why be threatned by somthing that is so non threatning? Anyway. I feel Leonad is honest with Penny. Because he truley deep down cares about her. And has a long term invesetment in her, Sheldon says stuff to her and prob forgets about it. ITss like at times they are tryley strangers. Like in s7 when PEnnys life was unraviling and Shelodon implied his game night was more important. She basically told him to f off L:OL. So you know.  And I do agree the story is over now it was Leonard desiring the hot gitrl. He got her. 

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4 hours ago, camelliayao said:

I'm just saying sometimes the show is really not being fair when it comes Amy and Leonard. It gives its most touching, memorable moments to Sheldon (and maybe Penny).

For example, we all got to see how heartbroken Sheldon was because of the break up but we saw very little of Amy's POV. Wasn't Amy heartbroken when Sheldon escaped for a month and a half? Wasn't she panic when Sheldon broke up with her over a table? I'm sure she was. But did the show give us any of these heartbroken moments? No. As a result, many people blame Amy for breaking Sheldon's heart (If you don't believe me, just read the posts on Shamy thread before 9x10). She's portrayed so cold-hearted and emotionless to the point some people thinks she's only with Sheldon for sex lol.

Take Sheldon's birthday party as another example. I think there's no doubt that S&P hug was the highlight of that episode. But if you think about it, Amy's gift was getting Stephen Hawking to sing Happy Birthday to Sheldon. Leonard's gift was inviting Adam West. What was Penny's gift? She gave Sheldon a hug.

A HUG.

But it doesn't matter because all people will remember is how heartwarming Penny's gift is. 

 

 

Eh, I think it's less about a hug and more about being a friend and empathizing with him. Her talk helped calm his nerves, so much so that he rejoined the party. Amy and Leonard may have been able to accomplish the same thing given that opportunity but the writers chose Penny to do the deed.

Amy's toast brought Sheldon back into the party once he came out of the bathroom and a good time was had in the end.

Edited by 2L344
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1 minute ago, 2L344 said:

Eh, I think it's less about a hug and more about being a friend and empathizing with him. Her talk helped calm his nerves, so much so that he rejoined the party. Amy and Leonard may have been able to accomplish the same thing given that opportunity but the writers chose Penny to do the deed.

Amy's toast brought Sheldon back into the party once he came out if the bathroom and a good time was had in the end.

I was talking about gifts:)

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 Posts have been hidden and posts have been edited.  Keep it to the show, now how one or the other views fan fics.  Nor using "quotes" trying to disguise the real meaning of your posts.

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