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[Spoilers] Discussion Topic: Season 9


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At this point, I'm no longer angry, I'm simply sad, disappointed, and feeling disengaged from the show. Like Bill is emphasizing, I haven't seen the show, and honestly one of the reasons I gave up spoilers (until now! lol) is because I would get worked up and then be like "oh....well that's not as bad as I thought it was." But having said that, even if there are some laughs in there, the episodes thus far for season 9 just seem drama filled. I like drama as much as the next person, in a drama show. I come to Big Bang to laugh, squee, and when the occasion merits it, snort dericively at the characters. It sounds melodramatic to a lot of people when Shamy fans say that the ship is ruined, and I get why it sounds that way, but it sort of is ruined. Even if a miracle were to occur and they get back together in the next few episodes, it will take a bonafide miracle for that reconciliation to not leave a bad taste in my mouth, because Sheldon is acting horrible. Don't get me wrong, I think he's acting pretty much how I'd expect him to act in this situation. He's totally in character. But if he continues this way then i cannot continue to root for Shamy as a couple. I will still watch the show because I like all the characters, not just Shamy, but it will have lost some of the glow. The fact of the matter is, regardless of whether things get resolved or not, events in a show/movie/book/whatever-media-you-consume can make long term impacts on how a person views it. For me, at this point there's a blemish on my ship. The couple that got me to go from "'meh, whatevs, I like their friendship" to crazy fangirl obsessing about every moment because they are so adorable, and dorky, and unique, and perfect for each other, and just plain awesome is now in a situation where they're completely at odds. If this were real life I'd tell Amy to change address and phone number and block Sheldon from all social media, because whoa. I REALLY hope that one of his friends gets him to realize what the heck he is doing is wrong on so many levels and the show can move on from this. 3 episodes driving the same point home is unheard of and I can't quite make sense of what is going on here. Normally I can kind of guestimate what the writers are working towards, etc, but at this point, I'm baffled.

As for Lenny, I'm happy for those who are happy about their resolution, but I think that you guys got the short end of the stick in this situation. Not only did Leonard cheat (which, doesn't surprise me because he has cheated in the past), but he gets away with it, they get married, we the audience don't see (much if any of) the wedding, the CHARACTERS miss the wedding, and then things just get swept under the rug and suddenly they make up? Sorry but that's poor story telling and a complete cop out. And I'm not even a shipper. I mean, 8 years for this?? Wow. Howard had an entire season devoted to his wedding and he's supposedly a supporting character. It just doesn't make sense.

I'm not normally so harsh with my opinions of any writer, but seriously, I have to wonder what the heck is happening. Do they read fanfiction and then think we actually want fanfic plots in the show? (because honestly, if that's the case I'll go delete my breakup fic right now.) Right now the show just feels like over dramatic fanfiction. I'm really really really hoping it plays differently on screen...

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One fans happy medium might be another fans boredom zone.

Judging from what we have so far (episodes, TR's, etc.) I don't feel tptb haven't been true to the characters.  YMMV of course.

OK let's (oh surprise) agree to disagree.

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No, as far as I understand Sheldon had a bra in the box because he wanted to lead Amy to think that he had "girls on the side" and make her jealous. But she notices it's Penny's almost immediately. As in "Not buying it, you took this from Penny". Not as in "OMC you slept with Penny". I might be wrong though.

OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!! What the hell has this show turned into, a soap opera?

Weeee! Do I get a cookie for inferring correctly??

Not as tasty as a cookie, but my sincere admiration for the eloquence of your posts, even if I don't always agree 100% 

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I'm there with you.   I think Sheldon is sexually frustrated for Amy, as indicated in his recent insults and behavior.   I think this is based on extreme emotional attachment more than arousal.   He may not understand fully but knows he needs/wants to be completely with her.  The volcano will erupt and there will be no stopping the lava flow.    

[snip]

 

Seriously? I think he was simply childish as he often is when he gets emotional. Sheldon regresses to a child like state  when he gets emotional. 

 

Edited by djsurrey
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With Leonard and Penny patching things up and finally moving in together, I can see potential for Amy finally moving in with Sheldon.

 

I'm not sure their marriage necessarily implies the living conditions immediately change.  I've been wondering what the writers will do.  They'll be reluctant to move Leonard out since the Sheldon-Leonard roommatehood has been a key element of the show.

(Don't attack me, folks. I'm not expressing what I want to happen, just wondering what will happen.)

Edited by tmp
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I'm not sure their marriage necessarily implies the living conditions immediately change.  I've been wondering what the writers will do.  They'll be reluctant to move Leonard out since the Sheldon-Leonard roommatehood has been a key element of the show.

(Don't attack me, folks. I'm not expressing what I want to happen, just wondering what will happen.)

oh I agree, that is why I think they will devise a way to have Penny move in with Leonard.  It maybe just be as simple as Sheldon is already suffering from his breakup so it is not good to leave him alone.  Penny is not going to sleep without her husband so she just moves in with him.

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 It sounds melodramatic to a lot of people when Shamy fans say that the ship is ruined, and I get why it sounds that way, but it sort of is ruined. Even if a miracle were to occur and they get back together in the next few episodes, it will take a bonafide miracle for that reconciliation to not leave a bad taste in my mouth, because Sheldon is acting horrible. Don't get me wrong, I think he's acting pretty much how I'd expect him to act in this situation. He's totally in character. But if he continues this way then i cannot continue to root for Shamy as a couple.

I have the same fear, but then after reading Kazzie's post about why she has chosen not to reveal spoilers any longer, I was reminded that we are basing our emotions on others' points of views at the tapings, before the shows airs.  Until the episode is ready to air, nothing is final and the take could be totally different then it appeared live.

For instance, Sheldon is being and acting like a jerk, but it is my understanding that once you see his facial expressions in doing so, you can truly see his admiration for her and understand his motives.   What better evidence of Sheldon being in love than him trying to win Amy over by being Sheldon in-the-extreme so that he is trying but getting it all wrong?  

Many fans don't want Sheldon to change but at the same time complain when he acts like himself.   He has never had a girlfriend or ever had to go through anything like this before and is relying on the only thing he knows, push back with factual commentary and inappropriate comparisons that make total sense to him but go over others' head or add insult to injury.   For example, it is true that Amy is getting older and her eggs are expiring, and Sheldon reasonably thought this factoid would move her to shorten the break.  His method backfired.  Regarding his web retaliation and feigning sex with other girls, we have to remember that this is the example that was set for him by his constantly bickering parents who managed to stay together until death parted them, in spite of their animosity.

To protect himself from vulnerability and enforce compliance to his will, Sheldon has always relied on logic as his weapon of choice.   He hasn't quite grasped the fact that the order of the day is not about being right or being the victim and protecting himself from pain, but about throwing away all logic, giving into to his vulnerability, and winning Amy back through understanding and reassurance.   He doesn't get that what Amy needs to hear him say is literally, "I am ready for us to start planning for a future and family together".    Someone is going to have to show him what he is doing wrong.  Perhaps this will be Penny or even Amy, or he will Google it, or he will just figure it out...

Amy has contributed to this problem in her inability to be direct with Sheldon about her expectations, but instead hoping that he catches onto her hints and sarcastic remarks.   It is interesting that Amy can help Sheldon to understand how Leonard would be upset about his name not being mentioned in Scientific America, but fails to help him put two and two together regarding where she feels their relationship is lacking. 

Some, even myself, want to put the majority of this on Sheldon for his lack of attentiveness to Amy over the years, but Amy is not without blame.  In essence, she has led Sheldon to believe that his behavior for the last five years has been acceptable by her willingness to put up with it and not do anything to try and change the situation other than to say a word here or there.   There were no warnings that she was about to snap, and I can understand how he was caught off guard and is on the defensive now.  However, in the end, as Sheldon always does, he will give up the high side and do the right thing for his beloved.  

We may be having a difficult time shipping Shamy now thinking there will be a point of no return with Sheldon's behavior, but I wouldn't throw the towel in on them, yet.   Amy loves Sheldon and wants to be with him, too.   They will make up, and she will forgive him, because deep down she understands him, which is what drew Sheldon to her in the first place.

 

 

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OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!! What the hell has this show turned into, a soap opera?

I don't think "the show" has turned into a soap opera. Perhaps there is a subset of fans that want a romantic comedy rather than just a sitcom. 

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So Leonard has been sabotaging his relationship with Penny all these years and now has Shenny dreams, all because he is so mentally damaged and insecure, great.

So now instead of Sheldon saying 'I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested',

we'll have Leonard saying 'I am crazy, just read my mother's latest book.

As I've always said SRAM you should write for the show. Your jokes are much funnier than a lot of the ones in the show, and I personally like your opinion on how to solve some issues much more than how they have been dealt in "real" life.

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I have the same fear, but then after reading Kazzie's post about why she has chosen not to reveal spoilers any longer, I was reminded that we are basing our emotions on others' points of views at the tapings, before the shows airs.  Until the episode is ready to air, nothing is final and the take could be totally different then it appeared live.

For instance, Sheldon is being and acting like a jerk, but it is my understanding that once you see his facial expressions in doing so, you can truly see his admiration for her and understand his motives.   What better evidence of Sheldon being in love than him trying to win Amy over by being Sheldon in-the-extreme so that he is trying but getting it all wrong?  

Many fans don't want Sheldon to change but at the same time complain when he acts like himself.   He has never had a girlfriend or ever had to go through anything like this before and is relying on the only thing he knows, push back with factual commentary and inappropriate comparisons that make total sense to him but go over others' head or add insult to injury.   For example, it is true that Amy is getting older and her eggs are expiring, and Sheldon reasonably thought this factoid would move her to shorten the break.  His method backfired.  Regarding his web retaliation and feigning sex with other girls, we have to remember that this is the example that was set for him by his constantly bickering parents who managed to stay together until death parted them, in spite of their animosity.

To protect himself from vulnerability and enforce compliance to his will, Sheldon has always relied on logic as his weapon of choice.   He hasn't quite grasped the fact that the order of the day is not about being right or being the victim and protecting himself from pain, but about throwing away all logic, giving into to his vulnerability, and winning Amy back through understanding and reassurance.   He doesn't get that what Amy needs to hear him say is literally, "I am ready for us to start planning for a future and family together".    Someone is going to have to show him what he is doing wrong.  Perhaps this will be Penny or even Amy, or he will Google it, or he will just figure it out...

Amy has contributed to this problem in her inability to be direct with Sheldon about her expectations, but instead hoping that he catches onto her hints and sarcastic remarks.   It is interesting that Amy can help Sheldon to understand how Leonard would be upset about his name not being mentioned in Scientific America, but fails to help him put two and two together regarding where she feels their relationship is lacking. 

Some, even myself, want to put the majority of this on Sheldon for his lack of attentiveness to Amy over the years, but Amy is not without blame.  In essence, she has led Sheldon to believe that his behavior for the last five years has been acceptable by her willingness to put up with it and not do anything to try and change the situation other than to say a word here or there.   There were no warnings that she was about to snap, and I can understand how he was caught off guard and is on the defensive now.  However, in the end, as Sheldon always does, he will give up the high side and do the right thing for his beloved.  

We may be having a difficult time shipping Shamy now thinking there will be a point of no return with Sheldon's behavior, but I wouldn't throw the towel in on them, yet.   Amy loves Sheldon and wants to be with him, too.   They will make up, and she will forgive him, because deep down she understands him, which is what drew Sheldon to her in the first place.

 To the first bold part I'd say this is often what happens when someone is working hard to be patient. They begin to wonder if they can take it anymore. She did not actually snap.  She decided to step back and evaluate. He did not give her the space she said she needed. That is why they broke up.

The second bold part I just don't understand. I don't understand why a verb is used. Shipping? As though the audience has a part. Guess I'm just too old school for that. I see the show as a dramatization owned by the creators and writers and the audience as observers. 

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Why shouldn't they grab ratings and shock/surprise viewers?  All TV shows do that, especially with season openers, finales, and sweeps episodes.  Why should they do the same old thing or back off from something big?

Could they really anticipate that some Shamy or Lenny fans would go ballistic over a kiss that has no meaning to anyone other than Leonard?  This reminds me of those who don't want to see Penny talking to Raj alone because they think the writers are going to have them rip each others' clothes off and jump in the sack, even though that makes absolutely no sense.  At the time they slept together, it wasn't so far-fetched, given their emotional state and their drunkeness and the fact that neither of them was attached to anyone.

But just because it happened that one time in that one circumstance doesn't mean they somehow can't resist each other.  So for some fans, the season finale where Penny went to check on Raj after his breakup with Lucy was some kind of "Oh no!  THey're alone together!  They're going to have sex!!!" even though it made absolutely no sense.

Anyway, just as those people can't stand to see Penny and Raj together for fear they can't keep their hands off each other, some people think that every time Sheldon and Penny have a scene together means that there is some nefarious plot afoot by the writers to tweak the Shennie's or to aggravate the Shamy/Lenny fans by teasing a Shenny relationship, even though the writers have said again and again that that relationship isn't going to happen, and have even gone so far as to have the characters state how they feel like siblings.

So, yeah, the kiss is a shocker, but it's Leonard's shocker, bringing the audience along for the ride, and it has no meaning whatsoever for Sheldon and Amy, nor should it have any meaning to Shamy fans who know it means nothing to that relationship.

Is it really so awful to see such a scene?  They're not killing kittens or sacrificing babies.  Are Jim and Kaley not allowed to have scenes together for fear of the Shenny spectre rising in the minds of Shamy fans?

IMO, that's not the fault of the writers, but the fault of the fans who can't see past such things.

I was going to attempt to answer your post in a reasonable fashion, but I see it's no use. You just can't help yourself . You can't stop being a TBBT apologist. Be that as it may, it's your prerogative after all. However, in relation to the last sentence of your post, and for the 100,000,000.00th time STOP PATRONIZING OTHER POSTERS AND DON'T TELL US IT'S OUR FAULT, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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So Leonard has been sabotaging his relationship with Penny all these years and now has Shenny dreams, all because he is so mentally damaged and insecure, great.

Theres lots of people who sabotage their happiness in their lives, that doesn't necessarily mean they are mentally damaged.

Also we don't know the absolute extent to how much Leonard sub-consciously has mentally sabotaged his relationship, just that to "some extent" he did it in relation to his current situation.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

technically he does, and I don't really see it as him telling anyone its their fault as it is him giving his opinion on how he thinks fans are overreacting.

Edited by meka3000
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Hi live Australia I heard about the taping reports are we still going to get the spoilers from each episode because living in Australia we wont see big bang until October some time  iluv reading the spoilers its shame that some people take these things to far just enjoy the show but I need the spoilers please can someone keep me up to date esprcially abut shamy if you could I would be so grateful cheers from australia

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Theres lots of people who sabotage their happiness in their lives, that doesn't necessarily mean they are insane.

Also we don't know the absolute extent to how much Leonard sub-consciously has mentally sabotaged his relationship, just that to "some extent" he did it in relation to his current situation.

technically he does, and I don't really see it as him telling anyone its their fault as it is him giving his opinion on how he thinks fans are overreacting.

Ummmm....Phantas a girl..........

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STOP PATRONIZING OTHER POSTERS AND DON'T TELL US IT'S OUR FAULT, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know Carlos it's just her way, and those that vocally sympathize with her, of telling those people that don't agree with her that they are watching the show wrong.  

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or for his mom to come back and set him straight.

Sheldon's mom won't be available...Laurie is doing Broadway this fall and will be unavailable...Misery with Bruce Willis begins previews October 22nd and the play opens November 15th for a 16 week run.

http://www.broadway.com/buzz/180823/laurie-metcalf-will-replace-elizabeth-marvel-in-bruce-willis-led-misery-on-broadway-dates-theater-set/

Edited by vonmar
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