Non-Show Discussion Chit Chat: Season 9

[JE7]

Agreed here at the Atlanta zoo we had a male silverback named Willie B for many years he was an absolutely magnificent creature, I remember the concrete and glass cage he used to live in. Funds were raised for a new gorilla habitat which unfortunately he did not really get to enjoy before he died of old age.

We now have a state of the art gorilla enclosure that is as close to natural habitat as you can currently get, several silverbacks and a breeding program to help keep them from extinction.

What its like for the workers "behind the scenes" I don't know. But it would take actual effort to get into and I don't know if you can ever get 100% security

All massive improvements but it's still captivity. The flip side is many animals may soon be extinct in the wild.

We do need to constantly discuss these issues to try and reach the best and most humane compromise possible but vitriolic rants from either side of the issue are not helpfull and only cause arguments instead if discussion 

Edited June 2, 2016 by JE7

[nibbler747]

It's such a sad story all around.  I admit, when I first heard the story, my initial gut reaction was - why didn't they just tranquilize the gorilla.  As I read more about the situation, I 100% agree with the zoo's decision to shoot the gorilla.

Real life isn't like the movies, where they shoot a tranquilizer and the animal immediately is incapacitated.  This is a huge animal, when they get the tranquilizer, they don't immediately fall asleep, and often their behavior can be unpredictable as they are scared and feeling off from the medication.  Aggression would be a perfectly normal reaction in this situation.  It would only take a few seconds for the animal to hurt or kill the child.

The zoo keepers know the animal so much better than anyone else, and they felt that this was the best decision for the safety of the child.  It must have completely broke their hearts to do it, but they made the best decision.  I am sure they are mourning the loss of Harambe the most.

[Carlos]

 

On May 31, 2016 at 4:04 PM, Judith said:

If anything, the zoo itself should punish the parents. Because of their negligence,they ended up losing one of their exhibits (that's what these poor animals are at the end of the day). I haven't watched any of the footage but from what I've read, it sounds like the staff unfortunately didn't have much of a choice. They couldn't risk the child...Can you imagine what they would have to face after that?

Kaley had every right to voice her opinion...She's a known animal lover. Does she really get a lot of backlash on her instagram? She's a woman so I'm not surprised, but at the  same time I don't get it cause she's harmless.

Of course she got backlash because she said that the animal shouldn't have been shot which I consider to be a moronic opinion. Don't get me wrong, she has every right to post her opinion, but she also has to accept the praise or backlash that may come out of it. I'm an animal lover too, but in that case the life of the child is much more important than the gorilla's.

On June 1, 2016 at 0:02 PM, Jonny83 said:

That's the problem with social media, people can be anonymous and get away with being really nasty pieces of work. I strongly disagree with Kaley's stance on this issue but she should be entitled to her views without fear of online abuse, but that's not the way the world or online world specifically works sadly.

I am not in favor of people being vile and vicious thanks to the anonymity the internet provides, but Kaley is old enough to know and savvy enough to realize that something like that might happen after what she posted.

[Carlos]

On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 1:07 PM, April said:

The really frightening stuff is that plenty of people are even doing that with their real names in full display. So it's not even "oh anonymity just makes them feel invulnerable" - they'd be the same kind of assholes either way because a woman on the internet with opinions? Gasp! We can't have that!! Burn her at the stake!!11 ughhh

But is this really a case of people who dislike a woman with opinions on the internet or is it just Kaley (who is a woman) posting an (IMO) amazingly fucking stupid opinion on the internet and people reacting to that?

[3ku11]

I agree she is entitled to her opinion. But maybe it was best, she got her facts straight before she went all guns blazing haha. I think anyone who values a Animal, or thinks an animals life is equal to a child is moronic. I mean based on all the petitions for justice for this animal. While the kid just got out of hospital no one cares, I think that is screwed up. OBviousley the Question Would have you shot the Gorilla? Most say no. Which is just stupid. Because the 2nd option would be, to well watch the kid die. And it seems most in this generation are perfectly fine with that option. 

Edited June 3, 2016 by 3ku11

[JE7]

That's because they personally aren't involved, if it had been a friend or loved one of theirs they would have pulled the trigger to but since it's just some random person they don't personally care about they can "take the moral high ground" especially viewing it from a distance. It's just a mental exercise for them

I guarantee you if it had been her sister Kaley wouldn't have hesitated to put the animal down to save her. It's disconnect to an extreme but not uncommon in today's me culture and very prevalent in Hollywood with its inflated ego's and sense of superiority. Something Kaley had up till know managed to avoid  

Edited June 3, 2016 by JE7

[April]

8 hours ago, Carlos said:

But is this really a case of people who dislike a woman with opinions on the internet or is it just Kaley (who is a woman) posting an (IMO) amazingly fucking stupid opinion on the internet and people reacting to that?

My post had nothing to do with any reasonable response towards Kaley's opinion but specifically about the kind of comments that @luminous was talking about. No matter how controversial her opinion is it doesn't warrant "vile and malicious insults" towards Kaley. You can disagree with her all you want in a civil manner, no?

I also think that her gut reaction as an animal lover caused her to leap to the wrong conclusion and caused her to make a post without due consideration of the full facts. I agree with her sentiment that the outcome of this was that an animal had to die for nothing but I disagree with her about the reasons why. I trust the zoo's staff and their judgement about the situation and the danger the kid was in and I think that they had no other choice than to kill the gorilla. However, I am stunned how this all could happen in the first place. The idea that a toddler could apparently effortlessly climb into the enclosure while the mother wasn't looking for a split second? That doesn't add up. Either the barriers are a complete joke or the kid was wandering around unsupervised for a long time or a mix of both. And that is the part where I'd put the blame.

[Tonstar17]

Well what is unbelievable for me is why Kaley hasn't pulled that post. Obviously she still believes the gorrilla life is worth more than the child. Sad really. I have lost some respect for Kaley and I'm sure she is going to lose a lot of followers with this stand. But it looks like she doesn't care.

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[luminous]

I disagree with her in the gorilla case, but my respect for her hasn't faded and I like her as much as ever. She simply shouldn't post something in the heat of the moment. She's obviously too impulsive at times. First think, then post.

As for the followers: Still 2.7 million. Can't see a significant decrease. I think at the end of the day there are more important things that are on people's minds.

 

Edited June 3, 2016 by luminous
typo

[Tonstar17]

I disagree with her in the gorilla case, but my respect for her hasn't faded and I like her as much as ever. She simply shouldn't post something in the heat of the moment. She's obviously too impulsive at times. First think, then post.

As for the followers: Still 2.7 million. Can't see a significant decrease. I think at the end of the day there a more important things that are on people's minds.

 

True dat but I still think some people have lost respect for her.

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[Tensor]

1 hour ago, Tonstar17 said:

True dat but I still think some people have lost respect for her.

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They may have, but from her beginning comments in that IG post, she knew she was going to get flack for her opinion on this, and my impression is she just doesn't care what others think.  

[Tonstar17]

They may have, but from her beginning comments in that IG post, she knew she was going to get flack for her opinion on this, and my impression is she just doesn't care what others think.  

Hence why I commented on an earlier post why she hasn't pulled the post down. After all the evidence provided sometimes you have to put your hands up and admit you maybe wrong. But in Kaley's case, as you rightly said she doesn't give a shit.

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[Tensor]

8 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

Hence why I commented on an earlier post why she hasn't pulled the post down. After all the evidence provided sometimes you have to put your hands up and admit you maybe wrong. But in Kaley's case, as you rightly said she doesn't give a shit.

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There are some animal experts that agree with her.  Doesn't make them right either.  But it does provide support for her position.  

[Tonstar17]

There are some animal experts that agree with her.  Doesn't make them right either.  But it does provide support for her position.  

Well just like Kaley those experts probably haven't got kids. The instinct to protect love ones is extremely strong when that person is in danger than someone you have no ties with.

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[Tensor]

Actaully, at least two have kids (One has twin sons).  

[Tonstar17]

Actaully, at least two have kids (One has twin sons).  

Well I wonder if they will come to that same conclusion if it was one of their kids in that situation. I think not.

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[Tensor]

2 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

Well I wonder if they will come to that same conclusion if it was one of their kids in that situation. I think not.

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And you can be sure, how?

[Tonstar17]

And you can be sure, how?

Unless they don't love their kids. How could anyone chose a wild animal life over their kids. They are unpredictable and I don't care about how much of an expert they are, they cant read an animals mind.

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[Tensor]

So, this isn't a fact, just your opinion, OK.  

[Swedish Chef]

Don´t you think guys that it´s time to let this go. I think Kaley has moved on......

[Tensor]

Oh, I agree, I'm just trying to understand.   First it was Kaley should pull her post, as it's been shown to be wrong.  However, there are animal experts that agree with her.   Then it was,  those that agree with her must not have kids.  However,  it turns out they do.  Now, it's those that agree with her are being accused of not loving their kids.  I happen not to agree with Kaley, myself, but she does have some support from animal experts. 

[Swedish Chef]

5 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Oh, I agree, I'm just trying to understand.   First it was Kaley should pull her post, as it's been shown to be wrong.  However, there are animal experts that agree with her.   Then it was,  those that agree with her must not have kids.  However,  it turns out they do.  Now, it's those that agree with her are being accused of not loving their kids.  I happen not to agree with Kaley, myself, but she does have some support from animal experts. 

Why should she pull her post ?

It´s has been up for three days now, I don´t think it will be anything different if the post is there or not. Sure there are people who doesn´t agreed with her, but there are also a lot of people who thinks that she is right.

[Tonstar17]

It's not an opinion. It's common sense.

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It's not an opinion. It's common sense and so just because the animal experts said so it must be right. I'm no animal expert and you don't have to be one to know wild animals are unpredictable and no one can tell what they are going to do in that circumstances.

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[Tensor]

1 hour ago, Lagernisse said:

Why should she pull her post ?

I don't know, that's what Tonstar was saying.  That it was unbelievable to Tonstar that she hasn't pulled the post.  That "After all the evidence provided sometimes you have to put your hands up and admit you maybe wrong."

My only comment to that was that there were animal experts that agreed with her.  If there are other experts who agree with her, means she shouldn't have to admit she was wrong.  As I said, I happen not to agree with her, and there are other experts who disagree with her, but that isn't a reason to pull her post, as there is evidence both ways. 

[Tonstar17]

And to prove those experts wrong was to not kill the gorilla and watch it kill the 4 year old by dragging him around some more. The zoo keepers know the animal more than anyone of these experts and knew what it was capable of. There is no evidence for the experts to be right. All they were doing was speculating on an animal they have never studied, they maybe experts on gorrilas but every single one of these animals have different personalities and reactions.There was a hell of lot of evidence provided to justify the killing.

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