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Leonard never lies to Penny. Their relationship the past five years has been one of open ness and honesty.

 The openness has been one sided, from Leonard to Penny. I cite Anything Can Happen Recourence.

As for the living arrangements, I know it seems like (and probably is) lazy writing, but I have a feeling Sheldon and Leonard will continue to appartment share (I don't think Lenny will get married in Vegas), until later.  

Leonard has no past behaviour of cheating on Penny. So how you can now suddenly say "Once a cheater, always a cheater" is beyond obsurd on so many levels. 

Why does it have to be limited to cheating on Penny?

Leonard never cheated on Priya, their relationship was over.

The relationship wasn't over, as far as Leonard knew.

It was only after he cheated on Priya, that he learned she had cheated on him, so, unless Leonard is psychic?

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Lenny Wedding( not in Vegas) after real deep soul searching between these 2...without Sheldon! They realize how much they need and want each other and they cannnot live with out each other in their li

To paraphrase Leonard Hofstadter, "After that happens, you could take an aerial tour of L.A. on your flying pig."

I wish that the damage done to Penny and Leonard by the drunken kiss be repaired.

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 The openness has been one sided, from Leonard to Penny. I cite Anything Can Happen Recourence.

As for the living arrangements, I know it seems like (and probably is) lazy writing, but I have a feeling Sheldon and Leonard will continue to appartment share (I don't think Lenny will get married in Vegas), until later.  

Why does it have to be limited to cheating on Penny?

The relationship wasn't over, as far as Leonard knew.

It was only after he cheated on Priya, that he learned she had cheated on him, so, unless Leonard is psychic?

lol look we can go back fourth here. Leonard cheated, but for the first time on Penny. Why it have to be limited to Penny? So.this is not about cheating on Penny. But.an.oppurtunity to rehash all his previous mistakes and relationships, and defame his entire character, and make ourself feel better right got ya. In this instance its not about anyone but Penny. And the openness been mutual. I cite 43 Penculrity and Egg Salad Equivalency. But like citing.episodes means anything. As Priya, i.dont really care were talking about Penny not Priya. 

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lol look we can go back fourth here. Leonard cheated, but for the first time on Penny. Why it have to be limited to Penny? So.this is not about cheating on Penny. But.an.oppurtunity to rehash all his previous mistakes and relationships, and defame his entire character, and make ourself feel better right got ya. In this instance its not about anyone but Penny. And the openness been mutual. I cite 43 Penculrity and Egg Salad Equivalency. But like citing.episodes means anything. As Priya, i.dont really care were talking about Penny not Priya. 

You cannot disregard someones past like that. Even though Leonard wasn't dating Penny at the time, it still shows that he has a past of cheating.
So even though Leonard never cheated on Penny before this, he has cheated before.

And his loyalties when it comes to opposite gender are only to himself, look at how he betrayed Howard regarding Doc Stephanie.
 

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You cannot disregard someones past like that. Even though Leonard wasn't dating Penny at the time, it still shows that he has a past of cheating.So even though Leonard never cheated on Penny before this, he has cheated before.

And his loyalties when it comes to opposite gender are only to himself, look at how he betrayed Howard regarding Doc Stephanie.
 

He also betrayed both Raj and Howard by getting with Priya...

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You cannot disregard someones past like that. Even though Leonard wasn't dating Penny at the time, it still shows that he has a past of cheating.So even though Leonard never cheated on Penny before this, he has cheated before.

And his loyalties when it comes to opposite gender are only to himself, look at how he betrayed Howard regarding Doc Stephanie.
 

i.agree its consistent with.his character. But they are all vague examples. Stephanie thought they, they.werent. Leonard deluded over priya, cheated but may as well.followed through.as Priya did. So best indictive of future behaviour is past behaviour. Im just saying its circumstancial. And Leonard has a history of overcompensating for affection. So while i acknowldge his past behaviour, i.still think its ooc to lie to Penny for two years. This was more unconciousley sabatoging. 

He also betrayed both Raj and Howard by getting with Priya...

Priyas a grown ass women, who doesent need his brothers permission lol. This has been.discussed before, Leonard acts on his emotions. But he diddnt betray anyone, they are adults stuff happens. 

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Priyas a grown ass women, who doesent need his brothers permission lol. This has been.discussed before, Leonard acts on his emotions. But he diddnt betray anyone, they are adults stuff happens. 

He made a pact with Howard that neither of them would hit on her. And yet he proceeded to hit on her anyway.

In what universe is that not a betrayal?

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He made a pact with Howard that neither of them would hit on her. And yet he proceeded to hit on her anyway.

In what universe is that not a betrayal?

because it  was a long time ago lol. And they are both consenting adults. Boy Leonard makes one mistake after 2 years of absolute unconditional support, and ppl act like hes some deviant. 

Edited by 3ku11

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because it  was a long time ago lol. And they are both consenting adults. Boy Leonard makes one mistake after 2 years of absolute unconditional support, and ppl act like hes some deviant. 

This is a bit more then just a mistake imho.

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He also betrayed both Raj and Howard by getting with Priya...

I was going to answer Chiany's post before yours, but I'll answer both at the same time. To Chiany, let me say that I don't consider he betrayed Howard with Dr. Stephanie. because she wasn't Howard's girlfriend, and Dr. Stephanie herself mentioned to Leonard that the only reason she agreed to go out with Howard was because he said she could drive the Mars rover. If anybody betrayed anybody in that case it would have been Dr Stephanie betraying Howard.

In the case of Leonard betraying either Raj or Howard in the case of going out with Priya he didn't betray either. He did lie to them but didn't betray them because neither of them owned Priya so they were not in any position to make any kind of agreement with Leonard. The fact that Raj was so vehemently opposed to Leonard dating his sister was funny, but he had no right to say anything. Furthermore we don't know who came on to who, and the way it was portrayed it appeared slightly more possible that Priya was the one who pursued Leonard in the first place.

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In the case of Leonard betraying either Raj or Howard in the case of going out with Priya he didn't betray either. He did lie to them but didn't betray them because neither of them owned Priya so they were not in any position to make any kind of agreement with Leonard. The fact that Raj was so vehemently opposed to Leonard dating his sister was funny, but he had no right to say anything. Furthermore we don't know who came on to who, and the way it was portrayed it appeared slightly more possible that Priya was the one who pursued Leonard in the first place.

That's a good point actually...

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In the case of Leonard betraying either Raj or Howard in the case of going out with Priya he didn't betray either. He did lie to them but didn't betray them 

I'm sorry but if you make a pact with someone, then go back on your word as far the pact goes, that's a betrayal in my book.  Whether Priya instigated it or not, is irrelevant, Leonard still acted on those temptations.

Edited by meka3000

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I'm sorry but if you make a pact with someone, then go back on your word as far the pact goes, that's a betrayal in my book.  Whether Priya instigated it or not, is irrelevant, Leonard still acted on those temptations.

What is this a clique lol. So what Leonard promised, bad Leonard. Stuff happens you know, the pact may have been irrelevant by that point. Raj and Howard needed to get over it, Leonard made a decision for better or worse, what Raj did with Penny or attempted to was alot worse in my book, not that theirs anything to gain from rehashing that. 

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If anybody betrayed anybody in that case it would have been Dr Stephanie betraying Howard.

Not sure I agree with that.

In this case, it's not a problem, because Howard wasn't in a relationship with Stephanie, but speaking more generally, if my partner cheats on me with my friend, I don't think it matters who initiated it, I'd hold them both to be in the wrong.

what Raj did with Penny or attempted to was a lot worse in my book 

Have to disagree. Penny and Leonard weren't together (hence both were free to date/sleep with/marry etc. whoever they wanted) and there was no pact between Raj and Leonard.

It may have been a little insensitive, to use Leonard's bed, but other than that, I don't see a problem.

Edited by Stephen Hawking

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Neither Raj nor Howard had any authority to make a pact involving a third person who's unaware of it, so the pact is null, IMO

I don't see how that absolves Leonard of doing something, he said HE WOULDN'T DO.

What is this a clique lol. So what Leonard promised, bad Leonard. Stuff happens you know.  Raj and Howard needed to get over it, Leonard made a decision for better or worse

I agree with you to the extant of what's covered in this quote.  All I'm saying is Leonard did do something behind his friends backs when he said he wouldn't.  Saying he didn't do anything wrong on that principle is bs IMO.  I never said the act WASN'T forgivable.

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Not sure I agree with that.

In this case, it's not a problem, because Howard wasn't in a relationship with Stephanie, but speaking more generally, if my partner cheats on me with my friend, I don't think it matters who initiated it, I'd hold them both to be in the wrong.

Have to disagree. Penny and Leonard weren't together (hence both were free to date/sleep with/marry etc. whoever they wanted) and there was no pact between Raj and Leonard.

It may have been a little insensitive, to use Leonard's bed, but other than that, I don't see a problem.

Stephen you are wrong on both counts. You might think I'm attacking you, but I'm not. I'll explain you why I think the way I think. In the first instance you made the point for my position yourself mentioning that Stephanie and Howard were not in a relationship, therefore she was not, as you later claim, Howard's partner. taking this into consideration there was no expectation of exclusivity or anything else between Stephanie and Howard, so it is even impossible for an issue to exist.

In Penny's case you are correct, Leonard and her were not dating, so they were both free to do whatever they wanted. In this case, however there was a huge betrayal. The betrayal of Penny by Raj: Penny told Raj that she made a mistake by leaving Leonard, she mentioned to him that she love him (Leonard) and Raj took advantage of Penny by trying to have sex with her when it was clear to him that she was very impaired. This is later confirmed by the fact that she doesn't remember anything.

 

I don't see how that absolves Leonard of doing something, he said HE WOULDN'T DO.

Well.. very simple. Because that something that he said he wouldn't do didn't only involve him, so no matter how much he might have not want to do it, it was impossible for anybody to control the actions of the person excluded from the pact: Priya. Furthermore, if you want to get really technical about it, what was promised in the pact (which I consider null anyways) was that "out of respect for Raj" neither Howard nor Leonard would hit on Priya, and it mentioned nothing about resisting her advances, so, if Priya  is the one who initiated the advances, Leonard would be in the clear, wouldn't he? Yes, I know it is not stated on the show either way so we can never know for certain. I think it must have been likely by how Priya reacts when she sees Leonard again meaning she's the "aggressor".

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 In the first instance you made the point for my position yourself mentioning that Stephanie and Howard were not in a relationship, therefore she was not, as you later claim, Howard's partner.
 

I didn't claim she was Howard's partner.

Indeed, I specifically said "In this case, it's not a problem, because Howard wasn't in a relationship with Stephanie".

My reference to a partner cheating, is a more of general reference, which does not include the Howard/Leonard/Stephanie case, hence why I said "but speaking more generally, if my partner cheats on me with my friend, I don't think it matters who initiated it, I'd hold them both to be in the wrong".

so no matter how much he might have not want to do it, it was impossible for anybody to control the actions of the person excluded from the pact: Priya.

Of course it's possible to control the actions of the person (in this case Priya) excluded from the pact.

You simply refuse to take part in the activity, and, if they continue to do it against your wishes, it's indecent/sexual assault/rape.

Edited by Stephen Hawking

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Of course it's possible to control the actions of the person (in this case Priya) excluded from the pact.

You simply refuse to take part in the activity, and, if they continue to do it against your wishes, it's indecent/sexual assault/rape.

Come on, really? Get back to reality. That is really the most unrealistic answer I've ever heard. Besides neither Howard nor Raj have any right to enter in any pact regarding Priya's actions. She's a grown woman, and last time I check neither of them owned her, so...

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Come on, really? Get back to reality.

Would you be so dismissive, if it were the other way round, and it was a man. forcing himself sexually, on a woman?

Everyone, male or female, has the absolute right, to decline to engage in intimate/sexual activity, with anyone, and, if the other person forces them to take part, that is , depending on the level of the activity, indecent/sexual assault/rape.

She's a grown woman, and last time I check neither of them owned her, so...

I'm not saying they have the right to interfere in her life.

What I'm saying is, Leonard did not have to get involved, sexually, with priya.

Edited by Stephen Hawking
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Would you be so dismissive, if it were the other way round, and it was a man. forcing himself sexually, on a woman?

But it's not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

And also you are considering that Leonard didn't welcome Priya's advances if they happened. I think the pact is null, but even if it weren't, if Priya was the "aggressor" there is nothing Leonard did wrong. I guess we'll never agree. You have your point of view I have mine. 

 

Edited by Carlos

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And also you are considering that Leonard didn't welcome Priya's advances if they happened. I think the pact is null, but even if it weren't, if Priya was the "aggressor" there is nothing Leonard did wrong. I guess we'll never agree. You have your point of view I have mine. 

 

I didn't say he didn't welcome Priya's advances, because he clearly did welcome them.

I'm pointing at that your statement, "it was impossible for anybody to control the actions of the person excluded from the pact: Priya." is incorrect.

Leonard could have (if he had wanted to) controlled Priya's actions, by simply saying no, and refusing to have sex with her.

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Well.. very simple. Because that something that he said he wouldn't do didn't only involve him, so no matter how much he might have not want to do it, it was impossible for anybody to control the actions of the person excluded from the pact: Priya.

Furthermore, if you want to get really technical about it, what was promised in the pact (which I consider null anyways) was that "out of respect for Raj" neither Howard nor Leonard would hit on Priya, and it mentioned nothing about resisting her advances

-Irrelevent, nothing was beyond Leonard's control in turning down priya nor seeing her again.  But he did that and lied to Howard.  NOTHING was beyond Leonard's control in making those choices.  He chose to do what he did behind Howard's back. Its trivial whether priya knew that.

-leonards guilt over his actions and Howard's reaction indicates that they didn't view those words in a pedantic manner and that it was just a generalization for not having anything to do with priya.

 

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I completely agree meka3000.

To suggest that I cannot do anything, to prevent a woman from having sex with me, is ridiculous.

I have free will. I can say NO! I can walk away. I can not see her, or be alone with her.

If I have sex with her, it's because I choose to, not because I have no way to prevent it.

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I completely agree meka3000.

To suggest that I cannot do anything, to prevent a woman from having sex with me, is ridiculous.

I have free will. I can say NO! I can walk away. I can not see her, or be alone with her.

If I have sex with her, it's because I choose to, not because I have no way to prevent it.

Maybe he slipped and fell into her lady parts :)

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So much Leonard haters. And none of your comments make sense. It's like missing all the good things and picking on one mistake. Because that's what everyone remembers. Narrow-minded. Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

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