episodes 901 The Matrimonial Momentum (September 21)

[mirs1]

Thank you!

I think that FB fans (and IG and Twitter) are often of that type who get more joy out of hating everything than out of actually watching the show.  These are often the sort who gripe about Penny's hair every week, thinking that they're somehow going to force Kaley to grow her hair long again because "THE FANS DEMAND IT!!!!"

Social media makes people think they have the write to gripe in public and they think they have all this power.

Under normal circumstances I would agree with you, internet is full of strange people that foolishly think they can say whatever they want and change the course of the events just writing a comment on a board...but what is happening right now on FB is rather strange. I often visit the official TBBT Facebook page and in general every post they publish is full of comments like "best show ever", "hope you run forever", "amazing show"...of course, there are haters, people saying Kaley looks awful with short hair or that the show has been awful since the girls were introduced, but 90% of the comments are really good and supportive. After the premiere aired, all posts are full of complaints about it and specifically about the wedding.  I don't think the writers should take care of those comments in doing their job, that's not what I'm saying, they have a story to tell and I want it to be told  in a way that sounds honest to them; moreover, on a personal level, I rather enjoyed the episode, even if I think they could have had handled the wedding  better, so I don't quite agree with those internet comments. But they are there and they are...a lot!

Edited September 25, 2015 by mirs1

[phantagrae]

Under normal circumstances I would agree with you, internet is full of strange people that foolishly think they can say whatever they want and change the course of the events just writing a comment on a board...but what is happening right now on FB is rather strange. I often visit the official TBBT Facebook page and in general every post they publish is full of comments like "best show ever", "hope you run forever", "amazing show"...of course, there are haters, people saying Kaley looks awful with short hair or that the show has been awful since the girls where introduced, but 90% of the comments are really good and supportive. After the premiere aired, all posts are full of complaints about it and specifically about the wedding.  I don't think the writers should take care of those comments in doing their job, that's not what I'm saying, they have a story to tell and I want it to be told  in a way that sounds honest to them; moreover, on a personal level, I rather enjoyed the episode, even if I think they could have had handled the wedding  better, so I don't quite agree with those internet comments. But they are there and they are...a lot!

Well, fortunately, the next few episodes are already in the can, so, no amount of whining and hating is going to make much difference.  To me, it comes across as people who either don't get it, or who wanted something out of their own fevered imagination that was never going to happen anyway.

Even so, TBBT still won the ratings.

[IcyBerry]

Well, fortunately, the next few episodes are already in the can, so, no amount of whining and hating is going to make much difference.  To me, it comes across as people who either don't get it, or who wanted something out of their own fevered imagination that was never going to happen anyway.

Even so, TBBT still won the ratings.

Well that bolded part seems kinda harsh IMO...Leonard and Penny are the main couple of this show and their wedding has been 9 years in the making. While I was pretty happy with what we saw of their wedding and their sweet vows, I can understand why people might be dissatisfied with it. It was short and they didn't even show the "you may now kiss the bride" part and the ring exchange.

I don't think it's wrong that some people wanted a better wedding.

[Boonaroma]

Well that bolded part seems kinda harsh IMO...Leonard and Penny are the main couple of this show and their wedding has been 9 years in the making. While I was pretty happy with what we saw of their wedding and their sweet vows, I can understand why people might be dissatisfied with it. It was short and they didn't even show the "you may now kiss the bride" part and the ring exchange.

I don't think it's wrong that some people wanted a better wedding.

I agree with this completely.  I liked it too, but since a pregnancy is unlikely til the very end, this is probably the last major milestone for Lennys.  I don't blame them for wanting something big.

[nickelette424]

Well, fortunately, the next few episodes are already in the can, so, no amount of whining and hating is going to make much difference.  To me, it comes across as people who either don't get it, or who wanted something out of their own fevered imagination that was never going to happen anyway.

Even so, TBBT still won the ratings.

Here's another option.  How about people got it and flat out didn't like it?  Just because you and others liked it doesn't mean that you some how "got it" anymore than anyone else.  

That being said, there were negatives reviews of this episode all over the place and not just Facebook and Twitter.  It is okay to admit and point out that a lot of people just didn't like this.  Also, whether or not they won the ratings this week says nothing about how much fans liked or disliked the episode since they wouldn't be able to make that assessment until after they watched (or in our case were privy to all the spoilers).  I am more interested in seeing what the rantings are for Monday's episode.

[vasu]

Here's another option.  How about people got it and flat out didn't like it?  Just because you and others liked it doesn't mean that you some how "got it" anymore than anyone else.  

That being said, there were negatives reviews of this episode all over the place and not just Facebook and Twitter.  It is okay to admit and point out that a lot of people just didn't like this.  Also, whether or not they won the ratings this week says nothing about how much fans liked or disliked the episode since they wouldn't be able to make that assessment until after they watched (or in our case were privy to all the spoilers).  I am more interested in seeing what the rantings are for Monday's episode.

don't worry about phantagrae's posts....

she seems to be the eternal apologist for the show... ( if someone has suggested the same story prior to the spoilers....I am sure she would have said , yeah that's not gonna happen)...

not to mention prior to this season , she was going on and on and on about how she was sure penny and leonard were not going to get married in vegas and how she was sure the writers won't miss the opportunity to have all the fun with their wedding and their friends with them.....

and now suddenly she changes her goal posts.....lol....

Edited September 24, 2015 by vasu

[SRAM]

Well, fortunately, the next few episodes are already in the can, so, no amount of whining and hating is going to make much difference.  To me, it comes across as people who either don't get it, or who wanted something out of their own fevered imagination that was never going to happen anyway.

Even so, TBBT still won the ratings.

well based on those words, Sheldon and Amy should just go to the courthouse and get married by themselves.  Sheldon doesn't like all that hippy dippy stuff associated with marriage and he normally gets his way so it only makes sense they just get a legal marriage at a courthouse.  After all it is only the fevered imagination of the Shamy fans that want a big wedding, that is never going to happen if Sheldon has any say.

[Chrismo]

don't worry about phantagrae's posts....

she seems to be the eternal apologist for the show... ( if someone has suggested the same story prior to the spoilers....I am sure she would have said , yeah that's not gonna happen)...

not to mention prior to this season , she was going on and on and on about how she was sure penny and leonard were not going to get married in vegas and how she was sure the writers won't miss the opportunity to have all the fun with their wedding and their friends with them.....

and now suddenly she changes her goal posts.....lol....

coming from the same guy who's always negative and never has anything good to say. opposites attract so you and phanta a good match?

[Luna18]

Here's another option.  How about people got it and flat out didn't like it?  Just because you and others liked it doesn't mean that you some how "got it" anymore than anyone else.  

That being said, there were negatives reviews of this episode all over the place and not just Facebook and Twitter.  It is okay to admit and point out that a lot of people just didn't like this.  Also, whether or not they won the ratings this week says nothing about how much fans liked or disliked the episode since they wouldn't be able to make that assessment until after they watched (or in our case were privy to all the spoilers).  I am more interested in seeing what the rantings are for Monday's episode.

Hey I havent really read any comments on the episode but has there ever been another ep that's caused such backlash? Or is this really the worst fanfan/critical reaction there's ever been?

[nickelette424]

Hey I havent really read any comments on the episode but has there ever been another ep that's caused such backlash? Or is this really the worst fanfan/critical reaction there's ever been?

Since I've been following, no, never have I seen such a backlash every where for an episode.  But, it could have happened before I started watching the show.

[Luna18]

Since I've been following, no, never have I seen such a backlash every where for an episode.  But, it could have happened before I started watching the show.

oh I see. Thanks for answering.

This is quite sad, for the Lenny wedding to occur on what a lot of people seem to find to be the worst episode ever...

Are there more complaints about the wedding or the Shamy breakup?

[mirs1]

oh I see. Thanks for answering.

This is quite sad, for the Lenny wedding to occur on what a lot of people seem to find to be the worst episode ever...

Are there more complaints about the wedding or the Shamy breakup?

The two main complaints (as far as I saw, I didn't read ALL the comments...) were the general tone of the episode, too much angst and it was not that funny, and above all the wedding ceremony. Of course there were complaints for Shamy storyline and for Lenny fight after the wedding, but most of the fans didn't like the ceremony itself.

Edited September 25, 2015 by mirs1
grammar errors

[djsurrey]

The two main complaint (as far as I saw, I didn't read ALL the comments...) were the general tone of the episode, too much angst and it was not that funny, and above all the wedding ceremony. Of course there were complaint for Shamy storyline and for Lenny fight after the wedding, but most of the fans didn't like the ceremony itself.

Hmm. Of course, after all I liked the ceremony just fine. 

[meka3000]

but most of the fans didn't like the ceremony itself.

Is it possible most of those complaints stem from expecting something more traditional?  I just got done watching Scrubs season 3 again, and Turk and Carla's wedding wasn't far off in terms of presenting something different.  Turk doesn't make it to the church on time for his wedding day, so they have a reception and wait to make it official.  Turns out one of Turk's patients was a priest who makes it official.  We see Turk "kiss the bride" in the hospital room at the end of the episode, but we don't hear the vows, or I do's.  It's just implied that they did that while J.D.'s monologue is going on.  So a wedding like this that is outside the box is not unheard of for sitcoms.  Turk and Carla stayed married for the remainder of Scrubs, I'm sure Leonard and Penny will be fine.

For me the vows were the thing I was looking forward to the most, so it delivered on that front.  And Kaley managed to take something that could've been embarrassing, and managed to make it adorable with her cheeky delivery.

Edited September 25, 2015 by meka3000

[djsurrey]

[snip].  For me the vows were the thing I was looking forward to the most, so it delivered on that front.  And Kaley managed to take something that could've been embarrassing, and managed to make it adorable with her cheeky delivery.

I was half expecting Leonard to come back with "You ain't never had a friend like me."

[Luna18]

Hmm. Of course, after all I liked the ceremony just fine. 

 

I don't really see how your personal opinion has anything to do with opinion of the general public  

It's great that you enjoyed it just as it's okay that others hated it.

[phantagrae]

Is it possible most of those complaints stem from expecting something more traditional?  I just got done watching Scrubs season 3 again, and Turk and Carla's wedding wasn't far off in terms of presenting something different.  Turk doesn't make it to the church on time for his wedding day, so they have a reception and wait to make it official.  Turns out one of Turk's patients was a priest who makes it official.  We see Turk "kiss the bride" in the hospital room at the end of the episode, but we don't hear the vows, or I do's.  It's just implied that they did that while J.D.'s monologue is going on.  So a wedding like this that is outside the box is not unheard of for sitcoms.  Turk and Carla stayed married for the remainder of Scrubs, I'm sure Leonard and Penny will be fine.

For me the vows were the thing I was looking forward to the most, so it delivered on that front.  And Kaley managed to take something that could've been embarrassing, and managed to make it adorable with her cheeky delivery.

What I was trying to get at, and I may have misspoken in a way, is that FB and places like that are magnets for negative opinions, especially in a case like this.  Just like ocmplaining about Kaley's haircut and Mayim's politics or whatever.  If something is in the least bit controversial, people start bombarding.

While it's true that many people were expecting something different, that doesn't mean that the wedding was badly written or badly performed.  Nobody was throwing rose petals (or bathroom potpourri) and there wasn't an army of bridesmaids or a bouquet toss, but to me, those things would have been too cliche for both TBBT and especially for Leonard and Penny.

The vows were the most important part of the ceremony--everything else was just trappings--and those were cute, sweet, and heartfelt on both their parts.

People are certainly allowed to hate on it, but it's more fun, to me, to enjoy it.

Edited September 25, 2015 by phantagrae

[Chiany]

People are certainly allowed to hate on it, but it's more fun, to me, to enjoy it.

 

Sound like you think people have a choice to like something or not.

[legacy99]

What I was trying to get at, and I may have misspoken in a way, is that FB and places like that are magnets for negative opinions, especially in a case like this.  Just like ocmplaining about Kaley's haircut and Mayim's politics or whatever.  If something is in the least bit controversial, people start bombarding.

While it's true that many people were expecting something different, that doesn't mean that the wedding was badly written or badly performed.  Nobody was throwing rose petals (or bathroom potpourri) and there wasn't an army of bridesmaids or a bouquet toss, but to me, those things would have been too cliche for both TBBT and especially for Leonard and Penny.

The vows were the most important part of the ceremony--everything else was just trappings--and those were cute, sweet, and heartfelt on both their parts.

People are certainly allowed to hate on it, but it's more fun, to me, to enjoy it.

From what I read the major complaint is that the show has turned into a soap opera and has lost the comedy aspect that they started watching the program for Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk

[vasu]

It is not about people expecting traditional wedding or anything .... I think the main reason  is we don't even get to see full ceremony.... No one asked about roses or anything .. And mainly the stuff afterwards was not funny in any way and was boring 

Edited September 25, 2015 by vasu

[phantagrae]

From what I read the major complaint is that the show has turned into a soap opera and has lost the comedy aspect that they started watching the program for Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk

Well, then that's even more stupid, IMO.  I can understand being mad about this or that detail, but to declare the show a "soap opera" is as bad as declaring it a "romcom" which started happening when Amy was introduced ("Sheldon shouldn't have a girlfriend!!!")

Just because there's an emotional element for a few episodes and the characters have to deal with certain real-life aspects doesn't mean that the show is no longer a comedy.  Just because it no longer fits into whatever tiny box some people want to keep it in doesn't mean it's suddenly turned into a soap opera.

Was the show a soap opera when it was dealing with Mrs. W's death?  So far the breakup has been handled with a lot of comedy, with just a few moments of serious emotions--Amy's blowup at the Wolowitz's house, for instance.  All of Sheldon's complaints, for instance, have been humorous.

Now, the tiff between L/P has had some serious moments, but again, they've been punctured by comedy.

What's funny to me is that we often get the other side of the coin around here--when Howard was dealing with the letter from his father, people complained that the writers couldn't let the moment be serious without having the punchlines in there to lighten the mood.

I don't see that there's anything different here, really.

[vasu]

Well, then that's even more stupid, IMO.  I can understand being mad about this or that detail, but to declare the show a "soap opera" is as bad as declaring it a "romcom" which started happening when Amy was introduced ("Sheldon shouldn't have a girlfriend!!!")

Just because there's an emotional element for a few episodes and the characters have to deal with certain real-life aspects doesn't mean that the show is no longer a comedy.  Just because it no longer fits into whatever tiny box some people want to keep it in doesn't mean it's suddenly turned into a soap opera.

Was the show a soap opera when it was dealing with Mrs. W's death?  So far the breakup has been handled with a lot of comedy, with just a few moments of serious emotions--Amy's blowup at the Wolowitz's house, for instance.  All of Sheldon's complaints, for instance, have been humorous.

Now, the tiff between L/P has had some serious moments, but again, they've been punctured by comedy.

What's funny to me is that we often get the other side of the coin around here--when Howard was dealing with the letter from his father, people complained that the writers couldn't let the moment be serious without having the punchlines in there to lighten the mood.

I don't see that there's anything different here, really.

if funny since...... when there were no taping reports on this site,,,,the first thing you did was complaint about it on and on and on and on and on......

yet you call out people complaining about not getting what they wanted.....lol 

[Luna18]

Well, then that's even more stupid, IMO.  I can understand being mad about this or that detail, but to declare the show a "soap opera" is as bad as declaring it a "romcom" which started happening when Amy was introduced ("Sheldon shouldn't have a girlfriend!!!")

Just because there's an emotional element for a few episodes and the characters have to deal with certain real-life aspects doesn't mean that the show is no longer a comedy.  Just because it no longer fits into whatever tiny box some people want to keep it in doesn't mean it's suddenly turned into a soap opera.

Was the show a soap opera when it was dealing with Mrs. W's death?  So far the breakup has been handled with a lot of comedy, with just a few moments of serious emotions--Amy's blowup at the Wolowitz's house, for instance.  All of Sheldon's complaints, for instance, have been humorous.

Now, the tiff between L/P has had some serious moments, but again, they've been punctured by comedy.

What's funny to me is that we often get the other side of the coin around here--when Howard was dealing with the letter from his father, people complained that the writers couldn't let the moment be serious without having the punchlines in there to lighten the mood.

I don't see that there's anything different here, really.

Just accept that a lot of people hated this episode. Plain and simple. 

It's not really a huge deal.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Luna18

[HeWolf]

 

All in all, I have to say I did enjoy the episode. This surprised me as I did not expect that to be the case. After reading the originally posted taping information I anticipated being extremely disappointed with the season premiere. Good performances by all, and I did find several moments to be laugh out loud funny.

It has been a long time since that September night in 2007 when I watched the premiere of TBBT. When I did so I did not anticipate the long term commitment I would be making to these characters. Sheldon’s angst concerning investing himself in a new show is certainly one to which I can relate. I have gone through a lot with these folks and, while there have been a few down moments; I can say I am glad that I am still watching.

The current state of affairs on the show is rapidly turning into one of those down moments. The present Lenny situation is ridiculously unnecessary. Once again, the writers of TBBT had to cheat one of the characters out of his moment of triumph. Eight seasons of ups and downs were not enough. Instead, what should have been one of the climactic moments in the show’s history was reduced to a largely inconsequential event in a dingy, low class venue. There was even a crass moment where we had to have a Debbie Wolowitz impression with someone yelling from off camera about bathroom potpourri. The writers would probably say that was some sort of tribute, but to me it just further cheapened an already denigrated occasion. An eight year build up to a cheap wedding attended by none of their friends or family. Woo-hoo! And if the crappy wedding wasn’t bad enough the writers proceed to toss the wedding night down the toilet with continued drama about a secret kiss… Give these characters a break. Just one.

The Shamy situation is just a annoying. Not because of their break-up, which we all know is not permanent. If there is no Shamy then there is no long term role for Amy. And, while I don’t ship Shamy, I do enjoy the interaction between Sheldon and Amy. TBBT does not need Amy for Sheldon to remain relevant and funny. The Shamy does add numerous opportunities for comedic situations. Some may point out that Amy is necessary for Sheldon’s continued growth. For me, this so called growth is one of the primary reasons the show has lost some of its appeal. Original Sheldon is the principle reason this show developed the fan following it enjoys. Sheldon whatever version they’re on now is not anywhere nearly as entertaining or funny to me. Instead, he is increasingly juvenile (sometimes infantile) and annoying. Amy has also transformed greatly from her original incarnation. She has matured and probably is no longer a suitable match for Sheldon. How the show reconciles their differences will be interesting to see.

The other characters have become wholly stagnant. Raj is a waste of air time. Does anyone care about his weird relationship with Emily; or Cinnamon? He gets his notional air time each week but who cares how things are in his life? This may be good for Kunal, but it sucks for Raj. Howard and Bernadette often bore me. Howard has also become ever more juvenile; while Bernadette plays the role of harpy momma. Stuart needs to go back to his part time role at the comic book store. The character is not worth extended screen time. Raj and Howard used to have some of the best moments on TBBT. The show has lost this and that is sad to see.

So, in light of all this some may question why I watch. Easy, I enjoy the interactions between these characters that I care about; that I have invested my time and interest in. Someone pointed out that there is no comedy in a world where everything is going as planned. That is true and it is understandable that there must be turmoil and upheaval in the world of TBBT to provide the comedic fodder that makes the show funny. It is supposed to be a comedy. What I am saying is that I would like to see some (even one) time when the characters actually come out on top. From the onset of the show the producers claimed that their intention was to celebrate these characters and the genius that makes them special. This has rarely (if ever) happened. Instead, we have seen the opposite on almost every turn. Even in the case of one the penultimate moments this show will have it had to be diminished. The Lenny wedding does indeed come in a distant second to the hastily planned rooftop Wolowitz nuptials. Sad…

I know there will be many who take issue with part, or all, of my dissertation. Fair enough; such is your right. If you would like to discuss something then I am certainly willing to engage. I will not enter into an argument or debate with anyone. Have a nice day, everyone!

 

Sorry, Vasu. The only way the forum would let me post was as a reply to someone else. 

[djsurrey]

I don't really see how your personal opinion has anything to do with opinion of the general public  

It's great that you enjoyed it just as it's okay that others hated it.

Yes, I was not being particularly serious. I is just a trend I have noticed. The episodes I rate higher are the ones that many others rate lower and vice versa. I don't think it really means much other than I don't represent fans that talk about our show on line. I expect those that get on social media don't necessarily represent the more general fandom either.