episodes 904 - The 2003 Approximation (October 12)

[Chrismo]

Sure he did, IF they passed his interview, they didn't simple as that.

When was this a contest?

the whole interview bit was just for laughs. At the end of that he basically asked  Amy if she wanted to move in with him. What if he she had said yes?

in regards to the snide comments. I don't think you disagree with him making more snide comments, the point is Sheldon fans IMO seem to overlook this more than non-Sheldon fans.

[meka3000]

the whole interview bit was just for laughs.

What if he she had said yes?

Why can't a series of interviews serve more than one purpose from an in-story standpoint?

Problem solved then, at least for the short term from his p.o.v.

[djsurrey]

No one said it was all happening right now,  but it was the start of something.  And he was right about that.   Leonard moving out is the beginning of him building a life with Penny that will include less and less of him.  Couple that with the fact the woman he wanted to spend his life with just left him.   I don't understand why it is so hard to understand why he would be hurting about that.  But I guess it is hard to care about someone's feelings you don't care for.   I am sure to some here his feelings don't matter at all.    And just because he has done certain things in the past mean everything he does is horrible wrong.  Also,  he was coping his way.  It was Leonard who questioned why he was doing it and questioned his motives.   He wasn't actively trying to keep them there.   He was doing what he felt he had to do to cope with him being gone.    And the Chris Pratt thing was a joke.   It was Amy telling him no that sent him to revert to 2003.

Not that simple. Sheldon wanted to revert to a time just before Leonard moved which is long before Amy came along. Sheldon is hurt and wants to revert to a more emotionless time. It would appear that in Sheldon's mind emotion crept into his life when Leonard arrived.

Sheldon was thinking it would be less painful if he had a heart of stone. And he thinks he used to. It's not that uncommon for people to bury themselves in work, especially analytical work to drive emotion out. To me there seemed to be an opportunity to explore this further.but instead we got the Howard/raj band story. I know a number of people liked that story -- music just does not interest me much. Anyway I don't expect Penny's offer to be that helpful as she will want to kill Sheldon in his sleep before long.

[Itwasdestined]

While I was watching this episode the second time, I couldn't help but think " I know how X on the forum is going to react to this scene!" and after reading all the reactions today I feel like Scavenger Hunt Sheldon with his bowling ball. It was always going to be an episode that polarised, based on everyone's views of characters. As a viewer and forum member who just enjoys the ride of all the stories, while still being critical when I have a strong reaction, I just loved this episode but get where everyone is coming from, despite disagreeing with many. 

 

As an amateur songwriter of quirky songs for kids, I pissed myself laughing during all of the Thor and Dr Jones stuff (and yes, I am now longing for my wife to call me just so I can hear my new ringtone!!)  and loved all the classical Howard and Raj bromance stuff, from the chilled nipples to the predictable delayed reconciliation. I also enjoyed the whole Emily as Yoko Ono killing off the Beatles bit. The Junior Destined also loved these scenes because the show isn't just for the romantic shippers pining for Lenny and Shamy resolutions - some people just want to see the old school laugh inducing filler. My kids always laugh loudest at the Howard/Raj scenes.

 

Despite what the spoiled know about what's coming up, I found this episode to be the most positive Shamy interaction of the season. There was no whining from either camp, Sheldon was just matter of fact, calmly contemplative, spoke to Amy as a friend and Amy I thought reciprocated. I also liked how she defended Sheldon when Bernie insulted him. The respect for Sheldon the scientist is still there, which has always bee a big draw in the Shamy relationship, so the spark is still there.

 

Agree with the positive comments on the Lenny marriage dynamic. I think Penny was very aware of how her husband was feeling and reacted exactly as my wife has over the last 25 years. She sensed his confusion to how life without Sheldon will be, she noticed he was conflicted, she recognised the delay in the signing and didn't see the need to the discussion about changing the move plans. Leonard might pretend to want to get away from Sheldon but she knows how he thinks deep down and while some think she disregarded Leonard's wishes when she bowed down to Sheldon's pain, I believe she read the room and decided on what Leonard preferred anyway. Other than being completely separated from Sheldon, is it a massive sacrifice and crime against marriage? I have several friends who lived with parents in early stages of marriage ( just like Howardette struggled with early on. I know of many married couples who have short and long term arrangements with friends living with them. TBBT is not unique on television for unusual living arrangements for couples and friends. Australian TV has been full of them. And it's Sheldon and Lenny. Whatever we WANT for this relationship is always going to be the opposite of what we will get. And like it or not, we are gonna get Lenny and Sheldon connected for a while longer yet. And have neither the will nor the energy to stress about it here cos the writers aint takin no notice of me or anyone else on here.

 

And so to Sheldon. Again I get that if you’ve had issues with Sheldon controlling Lenny ( or anyone else tbh) you’re a chance of reacting badly to his performance in this episode. And yes, there have been episodes where I’ve been disappointed with him getting his own way but I don’t see him at fault in this one. Other than chucking a bit of a tasty in the opening scene, I personally think Sheldon was a balanced combination of reasonably mature and predictably wacky in that Sheldon way.

 

I can empathise with how he’s feeling ( but I’m not a Sheldon apologist - I've called him out plenty of times)  and I think he explained himself quite rationally without laying on the guilt IMHO. Fact; Amy has left him. Fact: Lenny are leaving him. Yes at the moment it is 6 metres across the hall but he’s not wrong to assume that at some point they will want to upsize to a new house - that’s what married couples do. If the woman I love and the two most important people in my day to day life for the last 8/12 years were on the verge of leaving me, I’d be a touched stressed out too. And I don’t have Sheldonitis ( well, maybe a little bit) 

 

Fact: he accepted their decision and cancelled the Room mate Agreement ( and surely we can all laugh at the key bit). Fact: he went to the effort of interviewing potential room mates. Opinion: he never had any intention to accept any of them and sabotaged the interviews. My opinion based on a lot of empirical evidence from the Flashback episode in Season 3: Sheldon’s interview of Leonard was full of ridiculous questions too but Leonard passed the tests and made it into Sheldon’s heart, the first person to do it since his Mom and Meemaw. 

 

Fact: Sheldon has had a lot of meltdowns in this show and these have been exhibited in a lot of weird ways. Reverting back to his 2003 persona makes sense to him to avoid further disappointment in his life. He was prepared to go that way. He explained it unemotionally to Lenny and they decided they couldn’t do it to him YET. It was their decision ( Penny said it but despite the look and words, Leonard thought it). Of course Sheldon immediately embraced it. It was what he wanted but he didn’t force it. His great friends ( no I don’t like the dog owner analogy - I’m over that reference) saw what he was feeling and did what they have done over the last eight years. Do you have to like what happened? No. Are you allowed to be sick of Lenny’s cave ins? Yes. Is it inconsistent? I don’t think so. They have had enough of him in just about every season and come back to him every time. Is that tired, lazy and overdone? If you want to think that way, you can. I just accept that is the story the writers are telling and personally like it. Others can differ.

 

Was the episode funny for me ( and the rest of my family)? Bloody hell it was so that’s good enough for me. And it also made sense. To Me.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Itwasdestined

[Itwasdestined]

the whole interview bit was just for laughs. At the end of that he basically asked  Amy if she wanted to move in with him. What if he she had said yes?

in regards to the snide comments. I don't think you disagree with him making more snide comments, the point is Sheldon fans IMO seem to overlook this more than non-Sheldon fans.

And I would think that is what fans in general do. They overlook faults more than non-fans do.

@lagacy99 I think we are watching the show wrong and are Sheldon haters. We should take that boat trip. Maybe we might learn our lesson as we have words with ourselves to never criticize Sheldon Cooper as we drink margarita and when we come back we can ask for forgiveness. ???? Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

I sense there may be some tongue and cheek in this ( maybe ) but I gotta say I am so over the "watching the show wrong" line. It's a forum. We all disagree sometimes. Why does that become so upsetting for some? If you ( and that is the plural you not you specifically Tonstar) think I'm watching the show wrong and said so because I thought Sheldon was sincere not manipulative in this episode, I just can't see why that is such a big deal. But each to their own.

[ashleyo85]

To me the surprising thing is the number of posters here who apparently dont know any real life newlyweds who have to stay in different places because of circumstances.  A lot of people are acting like  Penny and Leonard are breaking some law of nature by staying in diff apts.  And they arent even doing that fully since Leonard and Penny are  going to be moving back and forth.

My husband and I had separate primary residences for the first 2 years of marriage. 

We were still together 75% of the time (going back and forth), but the 25% when he was in one city and I was in another was tough. 

[nickelette424]

Not that simple. Sheldon wanted to revert to a time just before Leonard moved which is long before Amy came along. Sheldon is hurt and wants to revert to a more emotionless time. It would appear that in Sheldon's mind emotion crept into his life when Leonard arrived.

Sheldon was thinking it would be less painful if he had a heart of stone. And he thinks he used to. It's not that uncommon for people to bury themselves in work, especially analytical work to drive emotion out. To me there seemed to be an opportunity to explore this further.but instead we got the Howard/raj band story. I know a number of people liked that story -- music just does not interest me much. Anyway I don't expect Penny's offer to be that helpful as she will want to kill Sheldon in his sleep before long.

My point was it wasn't until after Amy told him no to living with him did he decide to revert back.   I wasn't making a comment on the time frame he chose, just the point in this episode in which he decided to go back to said time frame.

[mjc45]

the funny parts were with howard / raj with there song.

no awards for simon

like penny said -"it well not be forever"

[BazingaFan]

The episode was OK to me. The going back to 2003 thing was clever and very Sheldon. But it made no sense for Amy to turn down Sheldon's roommate offer given her history and that it was a huge step for Sheldon to offer it. They really need to address this plot hole in a future episode ( why did Amy break up with him when it completely contradicts her current character traits). We need a better reason than what was given to us. 

I was struck in this episode with how much the couch area in the new comic store reminds me of Friends and we had singing too with this one... It was just something that struck me.  I kind of miss the old flipping through comics scenes.

 

Edited October 14, 2015 by BazingaFan

[vasu]

Not that simple. Sheldon wanted to revert to a time just before Leonard moved which is long before Amy came along. Sheldon is hurt and wants to revert to a more emotionless time. It would appear that in Sheldon's mind emotion crept into his life when Leonard arrived.

Sheldon was thinking it would be less painful if he had a heart of stone. And he thinks he used to. It's not that uncommon for people to bury themselves in work, especially analytical work to drive emotion out. To me there seemed to be an opportunity to explore this further.but instead we got the Howard/raj band story. I know a number of people liked that story -- music just does not interest me much. Anyway I don't expect Penny's offer to be that helpful as she will want to kill Sheldon in his sleep before long.

Please..... almost nothing Sheldon does angers penny these days..... she is eternally sympathetic to him now.........

with leonard ..........its exactly the opposite.....small mistake and her temper flares...

[meka3000]

-she is eternally sympathetic to him now.........

-with leonard ..........its exactly the opposite.....small mistake and her temper flares...

-just like when she said Amy thought he was a bad boyfriend.  She made no attempt to try and cheer him up.

-when is the last small mistake that flared her up?  And Penny is more emotionally invested in what leonard thinks about her (and vice versa), with Sheldon, Penny deep down doesn't care what he thinks of her.

[veejay]

-just like when she said Amy thought he was a bad boyfriend.  She made no attempt to try and cheer him up.

-when is the last small mistake that flared her up?  And Penny is more emotionally invested in what leonard thinks about her (and vice versa), with Sheldon, Penny deep down doesn't care what he thinks of her.

yep 

[jenafan]

There are some here who can.   But I also see people here that no matter what he does he's horrible because he did something in the past,  so what he's doing now must be bad too.  Didn't mean to speak in absolutes, but there are those here that don't hide their hatred of Sheldon.

I don't automatically assume the worst in people.   Each situation is different.  Just how I operate, maybe to fault.   Just because he manipulated them over a table and was a big giant baby, doesn't mean that was his motive this time.  These are two totally different situations here.   But there are some here that don't, won't,  can't see that and just see everything he does as one big instance of Sheldon being a jerk.   He can't even tell his girlfriend he loves her without someone turning it into something he did wrong.   He offers enough frustrating,  annoying, immature moments to bitch about without turning everything that comes out of his mouth into something to vilify him for. 

I couldn't have said it any better, Nickelette.  

People have the false assumption that those who favor Sheldon don't recognize Sheldon's bad traits and that sometimes his behavior is downright unforgivable at times.    We do.   There were times I wanted Amy to knock Sheldon upside the head and leave his sorry butt behind.   There were times I wanted Leonard to leave the apartment and never look back.   Even with the current break up, I just want to wring his neck knowing he is making the situation worse and not telling Amy the things she needs to hear in the way she wants to hear them. 

However, like Bernie and Leonard have both said, the majority of the time he is not doing these things on purpose, it is just the way he is wired.   He is a good person at heart, and if his good qualities did not outshine his bad ones, you can bet that his friends would have flown the coup a long time ago.   They have had plenty of opportunities to abandon him but keep coming back.   They need and want him in their lives, but that also doesn't stop them from ridiculing and poking fun at him as much as Sheldon does them.   It's like a love-hate relationship.  Even recently with the Bachelor Party in Feynman's van.   Leonard in one breath suggested they leave Sheldon behind, but then they dragged him out because they wanted him there.

Now, I'm not saying that just because Sheldon doesn't know how to do any better gives him carte blanche to do whatever he wants and everyone around him just accept it.  He is downright selfish!  He needs guidance and pushing, like what he gets from his mother.   Amy used to do that for him, and in a sense is doing it now.  The problem is that Leonard is too timid to stand up to him, and Penny caters to her desire to want to make him feel better at whatever has caused him to become uncomfortable.  Amy gave up pushing after the train trip for fear of Sheldon's flight risk capability.   All of this just enables Sheldon to continue doing what he has been doing because it has worked for him.   He has seen no reason to change or become less selfish, until now that he has lost the person he loves more than anyone in the world.   Change is coming, for sure, but it's not going to happen overnight.

Sheldon's growing affection for Leonard, Penny, and Amy has caused him to make some changes over the years to become a better person and understand others better because he's discovered that he wants and needs them in his life..   He's made strides.   He's touching people more.  He's laughing.  He tries to be consoling, like he was with Howard when his mother died.     

If Sheldon were the same person he was in Seasons 1 - 3, if he had not made endeavors to be a better boyfriend for Amy, I'd have kicked him to the freaking curb long ago.   However, seeing his potential for growth and change as well as the exposure of his human side has caused me to be compassionate toward his character.   I see a person who was beaten, battered, and repressed growing up for being different from everyone else because of a gift he was born with.  He became who he is to protect himself from the pain of exclusion and learned to live happily in that exclusion.   

Now, he is finally discovering that there is more to life outside of the protective walls he has built around himself.  He's caring and feeling, but he doesn't understand what to do.   As he is trying to draw closer to the people he loves, they are pulling away.   He's confused.    It's all foreign to him.  Every time he makes some effort to come out of his fortress and show his true self, even though he does it in the wrong way, those who don't see what we see are in essence saying that it's not enough.  

So, what is the message being presented by those who don't support Sheldon the way I, Nickelette, Melody, Meka, and countless others do?

To us is seems that people only want to see the bad sides of Sheldon and not the good ones, to the point that even when he does something good, it goes unnoticed or is criticized.   He's failed before he has even put his foot out there in a world he doesn't understand .  No, the things that Amy spent (5) years falling in love with him for don't matter.   If he can't express himself in poetry, he's a lost cause.   Lenny better run in the other direction, because apparently even when he tries to express his true feelings, he's being manipulative.

With that mentality, perhaps Sheldon should return to his fort and lock the gate behind himself, because I guess he doesn't deserve forgiveness or redemption for his past errors or the ones that are sure to come in the future.   He will always be judged by what was rather than what is now.

[vasu]

yep 

lol....here she encourages leonard......but in the end throws him under the bus and supports sheldon....haha

[meka3000]

lol....here she encourages leonard......but in the end throws him under the bus and supports sheldon....haha

More like she read how he was feeling and thought the previous arrangements wouldnt be the worst thing in the world.  Leonard didn't have a problem with what Penny suggested.  He was just making sure that Penny is truly fine with what she suggested.

[veejay]

lol....here she encourages leonard......but in the end throws him under the bus and supports sheldon....haha

Honestly, if you don't like Lenny, that's okay, that's an opinion. But I suggest you're asking way too much out of a sitcom if you think the characters should have had a long serious concerned discussion about their lifestyle around Sheldon, ha?  

[djsurrey]

My point was it wasn't until after Amy told him no to living with him did he decide to revert back.   I wasn't making a comment on the time frame he chose, just the point in this episode in which he decided to go back to said time frame.

Guess you are right about that. In addition he told Amy she was the best choice out of people he interviewed. Funny that she had attempted to tell him that previously. A case of them not being in the same place at the same time. Kind of makes one wonder what will happen next.

[legacy99]

This is why Lenny needs to have a baby.  Then they wouldn't need to parent Sheldon. 

Wonder what that would do to him....

That wouldn't work because Sheldon would tell them how inconsiderate they were for not thinking of his needs Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk

[The Sweet Compounder]

I gotta say, Penny is getting wiser and wiser every season. Whoooooo! Go Penny, I love her on this episode. And yes, its not forever. They will move on from him but not right now. I mean c'mon, all of the bad things are happening, would you have a heart to let him go?

[djsurrey]

I gotta say, Penny is getting wiser and wiser every season. Whoooooo! Go Penny, I love her on this episode. And yes, its not forever. They will move on from him but not right now. I mean c'mon, all of the bad things are happening, would you have a heart to let him go?

??? of course I'd let him go. I would not move in with the nut case to start with! 

[Count Wally de Honk]

PurrPurrPurr made this, but is busy being fractious/technologically incompetent, so I'm dropping it off in her stead.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2015 by Count Wally de Honk
Edited on account of technological incompetence *cough*

[The Sweet Compounder]

??? of course I'd let him go. I would not move in with the nut case to start with! 

If you say so. :-)

[luminous]

Arrgh! I can't get Footprints on the Moon's "Thor and Dr. Jones" out of my head.

"Indy's whip snapped
Thor's hammer missed
It was Avenger versus archeologist
Indy held his ground and straightened his fedora
Thor said, that's a nice look in 1944-a
Thor and Dr. Jones
Thor and Dr. Jones
One plays with lightning, the other plays with bones
Thor and Dr. Jones
Thor and Dr. Jones
One plays with lightning, the other plays with bones"

...it's so freakin' catchy

[mirs1]

Finally I got the chance of watching the episode and I've to say that it is my favourite in the season so far...It's the episode that for me succeeded best in balancing the light-hearted moments with the more serious ones. There were sad parts, my Shamy's heart bled a couple of times, but they were organic to the plot and didn't seem forced. I agree that maybe it should be time for the writers to break the magic three up (that's the break up I want to see, rather than Shamy's one) but I think this will take a while to happen; the point is, for me, that they don't want to give Sheldon a new roommate (maybe for not adding a new character or for not having KS becoming a member of the main cast, Stuart in fact made pretty clear that he doesn't want to move in with Sheldon) so there can't be a spare room in 4A...Anyway, as for character developing, this episode was great. I know that many Lennies don't agree with it and I can understand why, it's hard to think that even after the wedding their beloved couple is not "allowed" to a well deserved privacy, but I really think that Sheldon was trying to cope with the change in his own way and he was not manipulating anybody. He has grown at a level that now he can acknowledge to be sad and to be in a difficult period in his life with his friends (even with Bernadette, which is not the closest one) and that's huge for him. I liked also Lenny dynamic during the episode, they seem a very happy and solid couple now and they were acting as really caring friends. I hope the living arrangements are temporary, but I won't count on that, really those three together are the basis of the show, for the general public they are source of comedy and I think something very big should happen to change this interaction, IMHO...The H&R part was hilarious, the song was really funny and I can't understand why it is not on I-Tunes by now...Do we know who wrote it? He/she is a comedic genius!!! And, surprisingly, for the first time since season 7, Emily didn't give me chills, they have turned her down a big deal, I liked her and Raj together in this episode...

Edited October 15, 2015 by mirs1

[The Sweet Compounder]

Maybe they are reserving 4a for Amy in the future... :-D