910 The Earworm Reverberation (December 10)

[meka3000]

17 hours ago, sarah7 said:

-But if they had leave to her apartment while he was still playing the keyboard (he was so obsessed with the song he could probably hadn't noticed) instead of taking it away, the tuba wouldn't have even come to play! 

I'm only saying that for people not being confused for their lack of action, they very well could have added a little line that clarified things up, we can think of several excuses or explanations for it, or some could think it's not that important, and that's okay, but it undoubtedly was a plothole.

-And characters always choose the first option that wouldn't bring them any other problems?  Sigh... sometimes I feel like some tv viewers have become conditioned to believe that their fictional characters are all seeing and infallible.  I'm not gonna lie, it drives me nuts.

-No it's not a plothole, at least not by what the free dictionary.com gives us: 

"A plot hole, or plothole, a play on the word "pothole," is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot sometimes even contradicting itself. These include such things as unlikely behavior or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, happening for no apparent reason, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.

While many stories have unanswered questions, unlikely events or chance occurrences, a plot hole is one that is essential to the story's outcome."

Nothing about them choosing to take away Sheldon's keyboard FIRST as a course of action was unlikely, illogical, or impossible.

Also how they chose to resolve Sheldon bugging them at night had NOTHING to do with the outcome of the main plot of Sheldon figuring out what the song was, and why he remembered it.

Hell while we're at it, there's nothing that suggests that they stopped looking for solutions once Sheldon started playing the tuba.  For all we know they kept taking away any instruments and he resorted to humming which didn't bug them, OR maybe they did get fed up and go over to Penny's apartment off screen.  There's NOTHING on screen to suggest either way what happened after Sheldon started playing the tuba.  But that does not make it a plot hole.

And regardless, why did it matter whether we saw them go over to Penny's apartment or not off screen?  To me it wasn't really relevant to the main plot.

 

Edited December 12, 2015 by meka3000

[Earnie]

I liked the episode some people wonder why Lenny didn't go to 4B when Sheldon was annoying them but that's what the writers want they know Sheldon is annoying they want funny scenes where Penny goes and takes  away his musical instrument  and we get the funny line why are you so strong. I would have liked an explanation of why they couldn't go to 4B  like Leonard saying well we could go to your place but you decided to get wild and ride me until we broke your bed again while you were yelling yee ha

[3ku11]

1 hour ago, Tensor said:

Who said spend a quiet night? Penny and Leonard go across the hall and do body painting worked pretty good. 

 

Well I never liked that episode in the first place. Lenny painting each other, the idea sounded nice, but I found the execution a bit off. I guess some are saying Sheldon is the breakout star of the show. Lenny are very popular in their own right. While you can argue its not original having Team Hofstadter v Sheldon. What are we 9 years into the show? Original? Lol it is what it is. It's like a relationship, even after so many years you find new things to enjoy about that person. So while it was a rehash of S3. Lenny being married, and more matured. And Sheldon having a tuba, that is something new haha. I don't get fans though, one instance your like oh why are they not exploiting the comedy of Lenny living with Sheldon. They give a taste, oh I diddin't find that to be funny tbh. And one is entitled to that, I just don't get it. And when people say oh its not original. Okay then you give me an original idea involving S/L/P after 9 seasons? You can't at this point be so original after so many years. You have to take the formula you have and find new ways to get funny out of it. For Team Hofstadter at Sheldon has been the cornerstone of the show since 1x01. For the 10 people who found it unfunny. Their is probably 1000 casual fans who found it hilarious.

Edited December 12, 2015 by 3ku11

[Chrismo]

2 hours ago, veejay said:

Next, on The Big Bang Theory: Penny and Leonard go across the hall and spend a quiet night on their own.
Somehow I don't think that would pull in many viewers.  

So are you suggesting that Lenny can only be funny with Sheldon and only in 4A.

[Kasey]

2 hours ago, phantagrae said:

Sheldon interrupting Amy's kiss/date is a classic comedy timing thing--it's always the case that such things happen the way they do.  The point of her nervousness and hesitance with Dave was that she was kind of forcing herself to try to move on from Sheldon when she had just felt that she wanted Sheldon back.  So, she's trying to force something with Dave that she didn't really feel, and her line just before Sheldon started knocking was the comedic set-up for that.

Just like in the old series Laverne & Shirley.  Whenever their creepy friends Lenny and Squiggy were about to show up, Laverne or Shirley or someone would say something that would time perfectly with their appearance.

It's basically a "speak of the devil..." kind of thing.

Regardless of it's definition, I didn't care for it...

[sarah7]

1 hour ago, meka3000 said:

-And characters always choose the first option that wouldn't bring them any other problems?  Sigh... sometimes I feel like some tv viewers have become conditioned to believe that their fictional characters are all seeing and infallible.  I'm not gonna lie, it drives me nuts.

-No it's not a plothole, at least not by what the free dictionary.com gives us: 

"A plot hole, or plothole, a play on the word "pothole," is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot sometimes even contradicting itself. These include such things as unlikely behavior or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, happening for no apparent reason, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.

While many stories have unanswered questions, unlikely events or chance occurrences, a plot hole is one that is essential to the story's outcome."

Nothing about them choosing to take away Sheldon's keyboard FIRST as a course of action was unlikely, illogical, or impossible.

Also how they chose to resolve Sheldon bugging them at night had NOTHING to do with the outcome of the main plot of Sheldon figuring out what the song was, and why he remembered it.

Hell while we're at it, there's nothing that suggests that they stopped looking for solutions once Sheldon started playing the tuba.  For all we know they kept taking away any instruments and he resorted to humming which didn't bug them, OR maybe they did get fed up and go over to Penny's apartment off screen.  There's NOTHING on screen to suggest either way what happened after Sheldon started playing the tuba.  But that does not make it a plot hole.

And regardless, why did it matter whether we saw them go over to Penny's apartment or not off screen?  To me it wasn't really relevant to the main plot.

 

Somehow I feel you (and some other users) are getting a bit worked up over this conversation, and I'm a bit confused because I don't think it's worth it, we are just amicably discussing our take on the episode and the characters actions, aren't we?

I also think you didn't understand me well, I didn't say the plothole was that they choose to take Sheldon's keyboard first, but that given that Sheldon was being so annoying for them, the idea of going to sleep or spend some time at Penny's apartment instead of Sheldon and Leonard's never seemed to cross their minds, or at least that they didn't referenced the fact that they tried to and something prevented them to do it, It's not like Sheldon started with his song obsession during that same night, taking them by surprise, he had been like that for two days, and we see them just staying there, like if they had no other choice, since we all know there's still one little option for them, that's why I think it's weird there was no reference to that, that's all.

It's not about the characters acting perfectly logically all the time or being infallible as you said, it was about making a little change that wouldn't leave that perfectly viable option uncovered, like, what if the scene of Lenny in bed had been in Penny's room?, just as you said, they can still hear Sheldon's keyboard, the rest of the scene goes the same, Penny goes all the way to Sheldon's room and takes Sheldon's keyboard, just to hear the tuba sound afterwards (which undoubtedly would be audible across the hall). You may argue then that it would have take a lot more time for Penny to get to Sheldon's room, and that's true, but, well, they had make us believe that Lenny could come back to Pasadena from Vegas in muche less time than in reality and there's no real problem with that, they could very well make us pretend Penny's go back  and forth from one apt to another doesn't take that much time, don't you think?

I'm perfectly aware they did it the way they did for comedic reasons, and perhaps to make things easier for them to tape, using less sets and scenes, and getting essentially the same results, they were probably economizing resources, and it's perfectly okay. Do I think their decision to leave that option in the air or ignoring it makes me (and other viewers) lose the suspension of desbelief for a moment? Yes, I do. Sue me. At the end, as Earnie said before, a simple line about Penny's broken bed would have done the trick.

Oh, and regarding the definition of "Plot Hole", since it seems there's no 'official' definition, I mean by a renowned dictionary, I found another community-edited source, where they say "Plot Holes are those gaps in a story where things happen without a logical reason" (which is what I was saying in this specific situation) and it also says that plot holes could involve something essential to a story's outcome, but it doesn't say it has to be like that to be considered a plothole, as I see it, there are big plot holes and minor plot holes, I would consider this specific situation a minor one, not essential to the story, that's true, but considerable enough to make fastidious nitpickers like me complain about it

Edited December 13, 2015 by sarah7

[djsurrey]

Just watched it again.

• Sheldon's fear of descent into madness and his video notes to future mad self
• oh yah, he got at tuba
• The shot of his neurons as he connected the beach boys to the song.
• giant Dave

Lots of funny funny stuff.

Bet I could see flaws if I looked for them but na, it was fun.

[meka3000]

3 hours ago, sarah7 said:

I didn't say the plothole was that they choose to take Sheldon's keyboard first, but that given that Sheldon was being so annoying for them, the idea of going to sleep or spend some time at Penny's apartment instead of Sheldon and Leonard's never seemed to cross their minds, or at least that they didn't referenced the fact that they tried to and something prevented them to do it, It's not like Sheldon started with his song obsession during that same night, taking them by surprise, he had been like that for two days, and we see them just staying there, like if they had no other choice, since we all know there's still one little option for them, that's why I think it's weird there was no reference to that, that's all.

Why is it unreasonable to believe they both wanted to keep an eye on Sheldon since he was being weirder than usual and that they were probably worried about him?

Also nothing on screen that suggests either way Sheldon was as bad with the song the night before we saw Lenny in bed. 

 

Quote

but, well, they had make us believe that Lenny could come back to Pasadena from Vegas in muche less time than in reality?

Vegas to Pasedena is roughly 4 hours, and we saw the ceremony take place when daylight was still out (from outside Howard's window).  I'm not seeing where reality was altered in the slightest here.

 

Quote

 

 I found another community-edited source, where they say "Plot Holes are those gaps in a story where things happen without a logical reason" (which is what I was saying in this specific situation

Where in the episode did the events happen without a logical reason?  Just because something is not directly stated DOES NOT necessarily make it illogical.

Quote

and it also says that plot holes could involve something essential to a story's outcome, but it doesn't say it has to be like that to be considered a plothole, as I see it, there are big plot holes and minor plot holes, I would consider this specific situation a minor one, not essential to the story, that's true, but considerable enough to make fastidious nitpickers like me complain about it

It also restates below that "Plot holes are thus contradictions in the fictional universe of a story."

No contradiction exists in this case.  Just because something is unstated DOES NOT NECESSARILY make it a contradiction.

Why do you need them to specifically spell out an explanation for you in this instance? Especially when there are reasonable explanations that one can come up with based on these characters and their histories/relationships?

-They never spelled out that Leonard broke up with Dr. Stephanie.  But it's not unreasonable to believe that he did, since he said he wanted to.  

-They never spelled out that things didn't work out for Penny with Kurt after he gave Penny back the money that he owed her in season 2.  But it's not unreasonable to believe it didn't by the next episode, based on their history.

This is the same couple who compromised their living arrangements as newly weds because Sheldon's state in that episode worried them.

So based on previous history, why is it unreasonable to believe that they just wanted to keep an eye on Sheldon when he was being weirder than usual?  Even if it's not directly stated?

Edited December 13, 2015 by meka3000

[Einstein Von Brainstorm]

25 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

They never spelled out that Leonard broke up with Dr. Stephanie.  But it's not unreasonable to believe that he did, since he said he wanted to.  

Oh god what if nobody told her that she got dumped?!  

[meka3000]

9 minutes ago, Einstein Von Brainstorm said:

Oh god what if nobody told her that she got dumped?!  

Not sure how that would work, since they previously were living together in her final appearance.

[Tensor]

 

38 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

Also nothing on screen that suggests either way Sheldon was as bad with the song the night before we saw Lenny in bed. 

Really?

38 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

 Just because something is not directly stated DOES NOT make it illogical.

Interesting   

[Einstein Von Brainstorm]

23 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

Not sure how that would work, since they previously were living together in her final appearance.

She's just sitting waiting for his call  

[legacy99]

I don't think lenny were worried about sheldon at that moment they were just trying to sleep

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[meka3000]

9 minutes ago, Tensor said:

 

-Really?

Interesting   

-Okay, they didn't spoonfeed us what Sheldon was like the night before, which is what I was trying to get across.  I'll concede my sentence didn't get across that clarity.  Regardless it can reasonably be inferred that he didn't start out that bad the first night.  It can also be inferred that maybe Lenny didn't stay there the night before, which is maybe why it was an issue for them on night #2 with no reference to night #1.  Again, many unknowns.  Regardless I don't think they needed to establish these things directly since they were so trivial to begin with in the grand scheme of things.

-Alright you got me again, I meant to add necessarily after Does not.  Though I'd like to think some people would've got that since I DID add that in a statement below, that was roughly the same thing I said above.  I just got done editing it, so now it's clear.

Just now, legacy99 said:

I don't think lenny were worried about sheldon at that moment they were just trying to sleep

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Does it have to be either/or?

[Tensor]

 

 

19 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

-Okay, they didn't spoonfeed us what Sheldon was like the night before, which is what I was trying to get across.  I'll concede my sentence didn't get across that clarity.  

Yep

19 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

 

Does it have to be either/or?

Nope, it doesn't.  But, there's nothing I see that prohibits them from just trying to get to sleep. You want to infer they both want to get to sleep and are worried about Sheldon, fine; someone wants to think they just want to go to sleep, that's fine also.  

[sarah7]

46 minutes ago, meka3000 said:

Why is it unreasonable to believe they both wanted to keep an eye on Sheldon since he was being weirder than usual and that they were probably worried about him?

Also nothing on screen that suggests either way Sheldon was as bad with the song the night before we saw Lenny in bed.

Where in the episode did the events happen without a logical reason?  Just because something is not directly stated DOES NOT make it illogical.

It also restates below that "Plot holes are thus contradictions in the fictional universe of a story."

No contradiction exists in this case.  Just because something is unstated DOES NOT NECESSARILY make it a contradiction.

Why do you need them to specifically spell out an explanation for you in this instance? Especially when there are reasonable explanations that one can come up with based on these characters and their histories/relationships?

-They never spelled out that Leonard broke up with Dr. Stephanie.  But it's not unreasonable to believe that he did, since he said he wanted to.  

-They never spelled out that things didn't work out for Penny with Kurt after he gave Penny back the money that he owed her in season 2.  But it's not unreasonable to believe it didn't by the next episode, based on their history.

This is the same couple who compromised their living arrangements as newly weds because Sheldon's state in that episode worried them.

So based on previous history, why is it unreasonable to believe that they just wanted to keep an eye on Sheldon when he was being weirder than usual?  Even if it's not directly stated?

First bolded part: I think that it was clear since Sheldon started humming the song at the opening scene that he was bad about it since that very moment, they were also witnesses of him increasingly obsessing over it before that night, so, no, I don't think his keyboard playing while they were trying to sleep took them by surprise.

Second bolded part: Call me crazy, but I think that insisting in sleeping on a bedbugs infested place while having an apparently perfectly clean room and bed available at a few steps does sound a bit illogical for me.

Third bolded part: Okay, of course I don't NEED the show to tell me everything clearly and undoubtedly stated, I won't lose any sleep over this, I even think we had spent an illogical amount of time talking about it and... you know?, call me overly demanding, but, yes, I would have liked to openly hear a good reason for them to not taking advantage of the obvious solution to their problem, which was to scape from Sheldon, not only during that night, but also during all the other times he was being obnoxius with the song, like during dinner. I mean, we can have them trying to scape at least once (like them trying to have dinner alone at her place) but Sheldon following them, so, the comedy of them being his victims remains.

Because while I agree it's not unreasonable to believe they wanted to keep an eye on him based in their previous story (altough, it's not like we are talking about a little, helpless child, he won't kill himsel by playing or humming a song over and over if left unattended for a few hours), also based in their previous story, there are numerous examples of them finding ways to scape from his eccentricities and leaving him alone in even much more dangerous situations. Two quick examples: Leonard trying to spend time out the house and making up excuses for it to avoid taking care of him while he was sick and Penny getting him drunk and sending him to the streets alone in that condition (when he decided to confront Wil Weathon). And there are plenty of examples of that kind of behaviour, from Leonard, Penny and all the other characters, all of them also played out not as a way to demonstrate how horrible persons they are, but for the sake of comedy.

Now tell me, is that unreasonable to think it's weird this time they didn't at least try to find a way out?

That's my only gripe, not a big one, a tiny, little irrelevant detail. I have understood it doesn't bother you and I respect that, as I said before, I don't even understand why we are still talking about this!

[Gbb]

Edited December 13, 2015 by Gbb

[veejay]

7 hours ago, Chrismo said:

So are you suggesting that Lenny can only be funny with Sheldon and only in 4A.

Definitely not!

[phantagrae]

10 hours ago, Kasey said:

Somehow I don't think they'd get that awesome of a storyline...

What would be so awesome about Leonard and Penny spending a quiet night together?

Let's watch them go to bed and go to sleep while nothing happens.  Woohoo.

 While they might not need to have Sheldon in the mix for comedy, if they're by themselves, then something odd or funny might happen, but it's not going to be some quiet romantic storyline.  Something's got to happen, like some kind of unexpected twist, or an argument or an interruption of some kind.

 Even that body painting thing showed that they weren't as wild as they thought they would be.  Plus they've already done that, so it's not like they're going to repeat that.

So how would it be funny or even interesting just to show them together just for its own sake?  You might find it romantic, but it wouldn't necessarily be all that funny, which is what the show is going for.

7 hours ago, Kasey said:

Regardless of it's definition, I didn't care for it...

Well, what did you want to happen?  Did you want her to go to bed with Dave before Sheldon came over?

 From the previous dialog with Bernie, as well as her dialog with Dave, she was clearly trying to make herself feel something for Dave that she did not feel.  And I don't think she was "swooping in for a kiss" with Dave.  She had just backed away from him as he tried to kiss her, which was clearly her first instinct--not to kiss him.  She then tried to talk herself into it, but was "saved by the bell" when Sheldon appeared.  What's not to like?

 The story wasn't about Dave.

Edited December 13, 2015 by phantagrae

[Einstein Von Brainstorm]

7 minutes ago, phantagrae said:

While they might not need to have Sheldon in the mix for comedy, if they're by themselves, then something odd or funny might happen, but it's not going to be some quiet romantic storyline.  Something's got to happen, like some kind of unexpected twist, or an argument or an interruption of some kind.

I think this is exactly what TBBT have always done brilliantly ...

When Howard and Bernadette got married a ceremony on the roof with just them and their best friends should have been really sweet BUT this is a comedy and it can't just be sweet so Leonard had to start that fight with Penny to make it funny! Any other show two of the groom's best friends having a fight about their relationship would have ruined the ceremony but on Big Bang it seems like exactly what should happen.

Leonard and Penny getting married in Vegas, it could have been a sweet private moment... add in the lady shouting about the rose petals, the suggested stripper breakfast and cut backs to their friends not seeing any of it and it balanced between sweet and funny.  Whether I agreed with the venue choice or not *grumbles*

Sheldon and Amy get back together and Dave is there to interrupt and add the funny to the sweetness, never thought that this was gonna be hilarious when I read the TR, thought I'd be too caught up in the reconciliation to laugh but Stephen Merchant knocked it out of the park!   

Love how these writers handle the sweet/funny balance even if I don't always agree with their other choices  

Was talking about this with my bff today, things that TBBT have made romantic somehow:

• Pop Tarts
• Brain Parasites
• Ear Worms
• Lint Traps
   

[Cerry]

For me the explanation why they didn't even try to escape was in the line "Come on. I take care of him all day long. You do it for once."

Another explanation like their bed broke or something like that would be a blunt excuse.

[Stephen Hawking]

I think this is the first episode, where Sheldon actually eats a proper forkful of food.

[sgreece]

3 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

I think this is the first episode, where Sheldon actually eats a proper forkful of food.

He ate the burger once at the chessecake factory, when he wanted to reserve the table for every Tuesday! Not a forkful but still.. :-)

 

[Kasey]

7 hours ago, phantagrae said:

What would be so awesome about Leonard and Penny spending a quiet night together?

Let's watch them go to bed and go to sleep while nothing happens.  Woohoo.

 While they might not need to have Sheldon in the mix for comedy, if they're by themselves, then something odd or funny might happen, but it's not going to be some quiet romantic storyline.  Something's got to happen, like some kind of unexpected twist, or an argument or an interruption of some kind.

 Even that body painting thing showed that they weren't as wild as they thought they would be.  Plus they've already done that, so it's not like they're going to repeat that.

So how would it be funny or even interesting just to show them together just for its own sake?  You might find it romantic, but it wouldn't necessarily be all that funny, which is what the show is going for.

Well, what did you want to happen?  Did you want her to go to bed with Dave before Sheldon came over?

 From the previous dialog with Bernie, as well as her dialog with Dave, she was clearly trying to make herself feel something for Dave that she did not feel.  And I don't think she was "swooping in for a kiss" with Dave.  She had just backed away from him as he tried to kiss her, which was clearly her first instinct--not to kiss him.  She then tried to talk herself into it, but was "saved by the bell" when Sheldon appeared.  What's not to like?

 The story wasn't about Dave.

Phanta, you know I did say "with a due respect" concerning my opinion on the episode.  I am sorry that I didn't like it in the same way you did.  I realize that commenting on a forum means that others may debunk or dispute but I find this post to be a little sarcastic and uncalled for.  

I don't like Sheldon that much and not a huge, over the top fan of Shamy - BUT I have usually tried to be respectful of the fact of others like him and them.  I even wrote what I thought was a nice FF about Shamy.  

The first post you quoted, I was being sarcastic and I assumed it was obvious.  Sorry if you didn't get that.  The second post was in direct response to you "explaining" the episode to me.  As I tried to say with as few words as possible because that is how I roll, that no matter what the reasoning was, I didn't like it.  I did not in no way, shape or form call out anyone for the fact that they did like it. 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2015 by Kasey

[Carlos]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2015‎ ‎9‎:‎28‎:‎27‎, djsurrey said:

Just watched it again.

• Sheldon's fear of descent into madness and his video notes to future mad self
• oh yah, he got at tuba
• The shot of his neurons as he connected the beach boys to the song.
• giant Dave

Lots of funny funny stuff.

Bet I could see flaws if I looked for them but na, it was fun.

Meh,  not too funny for me but ... such is life.

23 hours ago, meka3000 said:

Does it have to be either/or?

Unless you just want to argue for the sake of arguing it's pretty obvious they just wanted to sleep, K?

12 hours ago, Kasey said:

Phanta, you know I did say "with a due respect" concerning my opinion on the episode.  I am sorry that I didn't like it in the same way you did.  I realize that commenting on a forum means that others may debunk or dispute but I find this post to be a little sarcastic and uncalled for.  

I don't like Sheldon that much and not a huge, over the top fan of Shamy - BUT I have usually tried to be respectful of the fact of others like him and them.  I even wrote what I thought was a nice FF about Shamy.  

The first post you quoted, I was being sarcastic and I assumed it was obvious.  Sorry if you didn't get that.  The second post was in direct response to you "explaining" the episode to me.  As I tried to say with as few words as possible because that is how I roll, that no matter what the reasoning was, I didn't like it.  I did not in no way, shape or form call out anyone for the fact that they did like it. 

Kasey: Let me tell you what's really going on: You are watching the show wrong. Phanta is the only one who knows how to watch the show right. That is what's really going on.