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QueenofSheba

Shenny Friendship: Where Did It Go?

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On 3/15/2016 at 7:26 PM, QueenofSheba said:

This isn’t about shipping, not at all. I’m actually curious as to where the Shenny friendship went to this season? It seems like TPTB are not capable of having Sheldon and Penny be friends or interact anymore, with their romantic relationships taking up all their time. Which isn’t realistic at all, people have best friends of the opposite sex and still have romantic relationships with other people. And instead of having moments between them, or scenes where they’re shopping, or hanging out etc etc..., we have to sit through these “Girls Nights” and the boys not really doing anything of importance.

 

It is very frustrating because I really do enjoy Shenny as friends, it doesn’t have to be more (made clearer every episode… and I get it, I can hope but oh well.) their interactions were always so real and fulfilling, and they were never trying to get anything out of the other person. They were just friends. There for each other.

 

Anyway, I looked around and didn’t see anything about his on here, and there seem to be a lot of folks on here, so I thought I’d ask.

 

This isn’t attacking the canon ships; this is about a friendship that I am missing on the show.

 

Hopefully S10 will bring it back.

 

I totally agree with you. I miss Shenny friendship. The TBBT used to be about having fun, appreciating each others' differences and being funny, but now its totally turned into a relationship show. Its not about science anymore either. People only care about relationship drama and its dragging the show down. S/P have a great chemistry.You don't have to focus on couples all the time. If I watched a random episode, I would not even have guessed that they were scientists, especially the girls.

Edited by Serena_nyc1995
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31 minutes ago, Serena_nyc1995 said:

I totally agree with you. I miss Shenny friendship. The TBBT used to be about having fun, appreciating each others' differences and being funny, but now its totally turned into a relationship show. Its not about science anymore either. People only care about relationship drama and its dragging the show down. S/P have a great chemistry.You don't have to focus on couples all the time. If I watched a random episode, I would not even have guessed that they were scientists, especially the girls.

I love everything about this post.

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On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 1:43 PM, wowbagger said:

I'm a huge Sheldon/Penny friendship 'shipper. Their bromance has long been the heart of the show, for me. However, in the recent past the show has become terribly ....insistent... on their Magical Speshul Bond (vide: Amy literally saying to Leonard that she is a little jealous of their connection in Season Seven). And when the writers pat themselves on the back like that, I tend to roll my eyes. Add to that the fact that the show sometimes dithers about whether and how to progress Sheldon's character, and on these occasions hits on the truly nightmarish compromise of having him 'grow up' by being sharper and more dickish, and also have sex, but also be simultaneously less functional and more obviously fundamentally dependent on the people around him (the descent from 'difficult friend' to 'child' to 'pet' is not lost on me). Add also the fact that the show had Amy lurch overnight from being the 'other Sheldon', who understood him by dint of being so much like him, to being frequently yet another tutter and eye-roller who suffers Sheldon. And you have what used to be a sharp, well-observed dynamic where Penny and Sheldon hoiked each other out of their comfort zones, into something more toothless and sort of....vaguely affectionate. Penny looks after Sheldon, and Sheldon....is looked after. It's a pity, but there it is, and I don't really want more Sheldon/Penny if all we're going to get is this sort of undifferentiated pabulum.

I think that there's not as much "serious" plotting or planning going on in terms of "Sheldon grows up" or whatever theme people think is being promoted.

And even if it is, I don't think it's about showing the S/P "Magical Speshul Bond", as you like to call it.

I think that it can be used to set up or underscore other issues, or it can be used in and of itself.  But the point is that all the characters have evolved and their relationships to each other have evolved.  Whether or not they need to bring up the Amy-is-jealous-of-their-bond idea may be questionable, but it gives them a platform to address the varying dynamics.

What I'm always surprised about is when people take certain ideas so seriously.  Sheldon's childish or mean or rude comments or behaviors have been there since the beginning, and though he has admittedly changed over the years, due to the influence of his friends, he is at his core the same person.  I think they're all that way--they have influenced each other and motivated each other to change, and yet they have a core that is true to who they were at the beginning.

So Sheldon is always going to be somewhat selfish and rude, especially in certain areas of his life.  He almost always thinks of himself first and has that "Evil Doctor" kind of mentality when it comes to the masses of humanity.  He'll always feel that others are beneath him, even those he has come to love.  And I think that because he has lived his life in such a single and solitary way for so long, it's been a difficult process for him to reconcile this other part of himself that has softened, fallen in love, even given in to the desire for sex with his girlfriend.

In the Table episode and in the 2003 episode, he talked about how he had changed due to the influence of others, but he is still at this core the same self-centered guy.  Similarly, Penny is still that mixture of street-smart and book-ignorant (though she has learned a lot from her association with all these brainiacs), somewhat shallow when it comes to certain things, etc..  Leonard is still insecure at his core, even though he finally got the girl of his dreams and has had some success in his work.  And so on.

I think that having Sheldon and Penny going over essentially the same ground of poking each other the way they used to in the early seasons would just be repetitive.  There's no denying that their relationship has changed and softened over the years--and why wouldn't it?  Penny always had a bit of sympathy, even if it was begrudging, for Sheldon and was willing to do some things for him just because it's in her nature.  Just as Leonard is the peacemaker of the group, Penny has always been a sort of den mother to the guys.  And even though Sheldon now has Amy, I think it's important to keep her out of that mother/sister spot that Penny occupies.

 

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2 hours ago, phantagrae said:

I think that having Sheldon and Penny going over essentially the same ground of poking each other the way they used to in the early seasons would just be repetitive.  There's no denying that their relationship has changed and softened over the years--and why wouldn't it?  Penny always had a bit of sympathy, even if it was begrudging, for Sheldon and was willing to do some things for him just because it's in her nature.  Just as Leonard is the peacemaker of the group, Penny has always been a sort of den mother to the guys.  And even though Sheldon now has Amy, I think it's important to keep her out of that mother/sister spot that Penny occupies.

 

Straw man, phanta. Objecting to the clumsy way that the Shenny friendship is written nowadays is not the same thing as demanding that the friendship never change. I completely get that the relationship would evolve. I do not, however, see why it should wander into this gauzy swamp of vague benevolence, with so little of the reluctant, antagonistic affection that characterised it. Fraternal relationships may change over the years, but they also retain their essential character. Right now, Penny's relationship with Sheldon has moved from being 'Siblings who challenge each other and pull each other out of their comfort zones' to 'Mother/master to her child/pet'. And also now Penny is the one who tolerates Sheldon (formerly Leonard's function) and also kind of the one who gets him/shares his interests (which used to be basically Amy's function, before the writers decided it would be so hilarious to have Amy turn overnight into the stereotypical Put-Upon Sitcom Wife). 

And my God, I would love for Amy to be kept well out of the mother/sister spot. What I wouldn't give for that to happen. Sadly the writers are intent on having Amy be someone who socialises Sheldon and scolds or wheedles him into better behaviour. And now she's jealous of Sheldon's relationship with his Magical Speshul Bondmate Penny. It's all so delightful.

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Posts have been hidden. No Regrets, legacy99, you both know better than to reply to such a post.  Next time report it, don't answer it, or we'll move to a Friendly Warning.  

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Posts have been hidden. No Regrets, legacy99, you both know better than to reply to such a post.  Next time report it, don't answer it, or we'll move to a Friendly Warning.  

Sorry Tensor got carried away

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On 3/23/2016 at 1:58 AM, Cindi May said:

I love everything about this post.

One thing we can agree on. I miss the geeky stuff and the S/P cat fights just as I miss the times S/A used to get each other when others don't. And Bernie is kind of turned into a housewife when she's a badass microbiologist that deals with dangerous substance. And Penny's actress dreams lost. But sometimes life happens *sigh* and we all face grown up problems at some point. :/

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I also miss the Shenny friendship, their chemistry is comedic gold, they should have more scenes together.  To me the show started out as a pretty neighbor moving in and teaching the guys how to interact in social situations, now it just about romantic relationships.  I still enjoy the show, even the drama this season, but IMO there needs to be more interaction between all of them, not just the focus on romantic partners.

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I miss the S and P catfights . After all, they are the OLD MARRIED COUPLE(in Penny's words). Their awww moments are becoming very few coz of all the other relationship/couples stuff.  My fave scene is when S trains P and mouths "Have a chocolate ...........". But if you, like me, are sick of all negativity directed at Shenny in recent years and love their chemistry, you can always watch one of these episodes: 

Intimacy Acceleration(S8)- A rare episode where they actually have science in the storyline.S and P do a psychological love experiment and get closer. They talk about the pilot - monday afternoon they first met in 2007.

Adhesive Duck Deficiency(S3)-AWWW, cutest episode of TBBT, S/P sing Soft Kitty together !P says "Sheldon has to get me into bed!" 

Bath Item Gift Hypothesis(S2)-P gives S, the -the Nimoy napkin and he hugs her(1st time). Also Kaley's favorite episode. 

Robotic Manipulation(S4)- Penny goes with Sheldon on his and Amy's 1st date; Has many great S/P burns and comebacks.

Zarnecki Incursion(S4)- P beats up a bully for S, like a total badass, but she also proves she would do anything for him :-). 

Gorilla Experiment(S3)- S teaches P physics, he makes P cry and then S says-"I cry because others are stupid and it makes me sad" .

Monster Isolation(S6)-P helps S with Fun With Flags ; S says "Spread your legs, invite them in !". He also compliments her :-)

Worksong Nanocluster(S2)- S helps P set up a viable business. They sing the work-song together.

Hofstader Insufficiency(S7)- A serious converstaion, S/P  share secrets and  S/P hug at the end.

Panty Pinata Polarization(S2)- Catfight episode. P says to S - "Your Ken and Kiss my Barbie"

The 200th Episode(S9)- An okayish episode but the S/P conversation and hug made up for it. S said it was irritating, but his face tells a different story-he closed his eyes and totally loved the hug.

Edited by Serena_nyc1995
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On March 23, 2016 at 6:21 PM, wowbagger said:

I do not, however, see why it should wander into this gauzy swamp of vague benevolence, with so little of the reluctant, antagonistic affection that characterised it. Fraternal relationships may change over the years, but they also retain their essential character. Right now, Penny's relationship with Sheldon has moved from being 'Siblings who challenge each other and pull each other out of their comfort zones' to 'Mother/master to her child/pet'. And also now Penny is the one who tolerates Sheldon (formerly Leonard's function) and also kind of the one who gets him/shares his interests

Just alone in season 9 Penny has:

-called Sheldon a bad boyfriend.

-Shown mock sincerity in being unable to go with him to an aquarium, which followed up with a high five to show she and Leonard actually didn't give a shit if he saw them lying to him?

-Taking his keyboard without even bothering to try and talk him out of not playing any more.

-Calling him crazy right in front of his face.

-Refused to rub his chest just because he was sick.

-Was willing to with her husband interrupt his LIVE Fun With Flags episode.

-Drew with a sharpie on his face while he was asleep on the couch.

And those are just off the top of my head, I'm sure I could find more.   I don't see the antagonistic side of their relationship having vanished, or seeing very little of it.  I see it as still very much there.

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Personally i think it's stronger than it's ever been maybe even stronger than lennys

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3 hours ago, legacy99 said:

Personally i think it's stronger than it's ever been maybe even stronger than lennys

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The problem is how it's becoming stronger. Penny's mother/child, or even worst, master/pet feelings for Sheldon have had a dampening effect on their dynamic. Her saying things to Leonard like she's not mature enough for motherhood because she's drawn doodles on her sleeping "baby's" face with a magic marker or that they can keep Sheldon close to them as the "family dog" shows she still does not think of Sheldon as an adult man. This is the kind of stuff she said about him in the season 6 finale.

There is little sense of equality in the Sheldon/Penny friendship now. Where each would insult and irritate the other and Sheldon would feel superior, it now Penny who feels as though she has "noblesse oblige" for Sheldon. She shows "love" for the unfortunate who can't do any better.

 

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The Intimacy Acceleration was probably the episode that strengthened that bond between them more than anything.

But I would argue that whilst she cares for Sheldon I don't think sometimes she does enough to help him get the desired change he wants. She's not keeping him down but she could do more to help him in my view.

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13 minutes ago, Serena_nyc1995 said:

Bigger picture- Jim has won more awards than anyone else in the show, by a landslide.

And Don Knotts has won five, but struggled after, due to the fact it was the writing of his character that brought him the awards.  And I'm not seeing how that makes him a better actor than Andy Griffith.   Modern Family has won and been nominated for way more awards than TBBT, so that makes Modern Family a better show.    Leo De Caprio evidently wasn't much of an actor until this year, because he hadn't won an Oscar.   Bigger picture, awards really don't mean anything.  

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11 minutes ago, Serena_nyc1995 said:

I hope you'll be saying the same thing if TBBT won best series or some other member of the cast won something. 

I've been saying the same thing for the past several years.  Are they nice to win, sure.  Do I like the cast and show (Including Jim) winning them, again, sure.    But they really don't mean anything.  The networks would rather have the ratings of TBBT or even those of Modern Family, without the awards, than all the awards of 30 Rock, without the ratings.   And I loved 30 Rock.

16 minutes ago, Serena_nyc1995 said:

Anyway, I was simply stating FACTS. I never said awards meant anything either. Nor did I say that he is a better actor. You are reading way too much . 

 If it doesn't mean anything, why bring up how many someone won? 

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Actually, the post you thought you were correcting, was in reponse to this:

 

Quote

"*cough* Jim's been the only one to win award on the show *cough*"

  

Your were trying to correct a post which simply stated Jim wasn't the only one to win an award on the show, which is the truth.  Now, were those other awards Emmy's, nope.  But that's not what the original post said, it said "the only one to win an award." 

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28 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Actually, the post you thought you were correcting, was in reponse to this:

 

  

Your were trying to correct a post which simply stated Jim wasn't the only one to win an award on the show, which is the truth.  Now, were those other awards Emmy's, nope.  But that's not what the original post said, it said "the only one to win an award." 

Then I stand corrected. I'll edit my post or better, remove it so the person I quoted does not get spammed by my crazy posts !:icon_razz:

On 4/10/2016 at 7:01 AM, Jonny83 said:

The Intimacy Acceleration was probably the episode that strengthened that bond between them more than anything.

But I would argue that whilst she cares for Sheldon I don't think sometimes she does enough to help him get the desired change he wants. She's not keeping him down but she could do more to help him in my view.

I loved The Intimacy Acceleration too. I also loved their scene in The Opening Night Excitation. Penny was very helpful to S in that episode. And S gave her good advice about not quiting her current job while going to an audition in The Communication Deterioration. 

S/P still have the potential to be good, but it all boils down to writing. And currently, writers are focussing on romantic  relationships rather than platonic friendships. So we shouldn't expect much.

Edited by Serena_nyc1995

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On 26/03/2016 at 10:27 PM, Serena_nyc1995 said:

I miss the S and P catfights . After all, they are the OLD MARRIED COUPLE(in Penny's words). Their awww moments are becoming very few coz of all the other relationship/couples stuff.  My fave scene is when S trains P and mouths "Have a chocolate ...........". But if you, like me, are sick of all negativity directed at Shenny in recent years and love their chemistry, you can always watch one of these episodes: 

Intimacy Acceleration(S8)- A rare episode where they actually have science in the storyline.S and P do a psychological love experiment and get closer. They talk about the pilot - monday afternoon they first met in 2007.

Adhesive Duck Deficiency(S3)-AWWW, cutest episode of TBBT, S/P sing Soft Kitty together !P says "Sheldon has to get me into bed!" 

Bath Item Gift Hypothesis(S2)-P gives S, the -the Nimoy napkin and he hugs her(1st time). Also Kaley's favorite episode. 

Robotic Manipulation(S4)- Penny goes with Sheldon on his and Amy's 1st date; Has many great S/P burns and comebacks.

Zarnecki Incursion(S4)- P beats up a bully for S, like a total badass, but she also proves she would do anything for him :-). 

Gorilla Experiment(S3)- S teaches P physics, he makes P cry and then S says-"I cry because others are stupid and it makes me sad" .

Monster Isolation(S6)-P helps S with Fun With Flags ; S says "Spread your legs, invite them in !". He also compliments her :-)

Worksong Nanocluster(S2)- S helps P set up a viable business. They sing the work-song together.

Hofstader Insufficiency(S7)- A serious converstaion, S/P  share secrets and  S/P hug at the end.

Panty Pinata Polarization(S2)- Catfight episode. P says to S - "Your Ken and Kiss my Barbie"

The 200th Episode(S9)- An okayish episode but the S/P conversation and hug made up for it. S said it was irritating, but his face tells a different story-he closed his eyes and totally loved the hug.

Don't forget The Barbarian Sublimation (203). This was significant because Sheldon was kind to Penny, encouraged her when she became interested in his hobby, and then tried to get her out of it when she became addicted. He was also extraordinarily patient with Penny's calling him for advice day and night at the most inconvenient times (rather Sheldon-like on Penny's part) in contrast to his intolerance of minor things not connected to his own interests, as in PPP.

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I find this topic strange because in season 9 Leonard and Penny live with Sheldon, they use the same bathroom, hang out in the same living room and use the same kitchen to cook meals.  How much friendlier do you want them all to get?

Now if you specifically want Sheldon and Penny alone, then you are a Leonard hater, and it is now weird and highly inapproptiate for Penny to spend the same amount of time as before with Sheldon because SHE IS MARRIED TO LEONARD, so there should be less Sheldon/Penny interaction and that is where it has gone.  

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I just watched a 2011 interview with Jim where he was asked,  who is better with the ladies,  you or Sheldon?   He didn't publicly come out as gay until 2012, so it is fun watching him deftly dodge the question.  His answer,  I'm going to say Sheldon is better with the ladies,  because women just want to Mother him. 

So, the idea that women,  i.e., Penny, mother Sheldon is not recent. 

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On 15/03/2016 at 2:07 PM, Einstein Von Brainstorm said:

 

 BUT the fact remains that they have nothing in common apart from they are dating/married to each others best friends so I don't expect many Sheldon and Penny episodes per season :) 

 

Except that Amy is not Penny's "Best Friend" however many times she says she is. Penny gets nothing whatever out of her relationship with Amy - it's all one-way. Sheldon has always been a much better friend to Penny than Amy has, and to state that Amy is (or could be) a connection between them is ridiculous. The "Sheldon, you big weirdo" line has already been quoted on this thread.

Given that, I thought it was a peculiar writers' decision (or wrong Penny behaviour) that Penny sided with Amy not Sheldon during the Great (boring) Shamy Breakup. As Sheldon is her real friend, she could at least have barred Amy from 4B unless and until she went back to him. Same goes for the others, to some extent.

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 BUT the fact remains that they have nothing in common apart from they are dating/married to each others best friends so I don't expect many Sheldon and Penny episodes per season  

 

Except that Amy is not Penny's "Best Friend" however many times she says she is. Penny gets nothing whatever out of her relationship with Amy - it's all one-way. Sheldon has always been a much better friend to Penny than Amy has, and to state that Amy is (or could be) a connection between them is ridiculous. The "Sheldon, you big weirdo" line has already been quoted on this thread.

Given that, I thought it was a peculiar writers' decision (or wrong Penny behaviour) that Penny sided with Amy not Sheldon during the Great (boring) Shamy Breakup. As Sheldon is her real friend, she could at least have barred Amy from 4B unless and until she went back to him. Same goes for the others, to some extent.

Why should penny or anyone for that matter side with Sheldon.? It was his fault they broke up taking Amy for granted and they all knew that including penny.

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25 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

Why should penny or anyone for that matter side with Sheldon.? It was his fault they broke up taking Amy for granted and they all knew that including penny.

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I think she could have offered him more support than she did personally (I wouldn't say she should have taken sides but offering support to try and make Sheldon aware of why it went wrong), but that's just nitpicking because it worked out in the end.

Sheldon was the only one who could have fixed his relationship in an attempt to get it back on track and he did. Like he said he's glad he went through it.

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