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923 'The Line Substitution Solution' (May 5)

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2 hours ago, Lionne said:

The story about Sheldon massaging her only once for 3 minutes, setting a timer first, topped off with the fact she "felt like a soft boiled egg," was so sad. It's another area where, like Stuart, pathetic is supposed to be funny, but I only see what it is - pathetic. Between that story and her ranting to Beverly, apparently at length, it just came off as Amy sitting and moping and complaining about her relationship. There was nothing uplifting about it; it was just dour.

Couldn't agree more. I'm not a shipper and I felt bad for Amy. It looks like season 6 all over again.

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2 hours ago, camelliayao said:

So I watched again and did he really say "Cause there's a Uber downstairs and I don't want to repeat this apology nonsense to my driver." So he didn't really mean the apology. He did it just to stop Amy from getting mad?

Unbelievable.

But Cam, he called Amy a peach. Surely we can swoon over that and fan wank the rest, right? Not like the fact Sheldon put a 3 minute limit, clothes on massage - Meaning the joke is that he still doesn't want to TOUCH her, a fact she's whining and moping and sad about - should give pause to shipping this couple. Seriously, the point is that he doesn't want to touch her. Still. Now.

You said in a post recently that the show made you feel like a fool. I thought the same. The show is making me feel foolish for shipping this couple, and even after coitus the jokes of Amy desperately wanting more physical intimacy and Sheldon having no desire or interest are coming fast and furious. And I think that's the point of no return - I never thought the writers would be so cruel as to withhold Sheldon's desire once they reached this stage in Amy and Sheldon's relationship. With the train kiss, you could see Sheldon's desire and change, how it rocked him and made him realize he might need to re-evaluate his previous convictions. But with coitus, he did it to make Amy happy, as a gift to her, but not out of his own desire, and since then there's no hint of that desire. Indeed, we get jokes like the massage ones - Sheldon equates a massage to groping her, and doesn't want any other man doing it. But he doesn't want to do it himself either. Genuine narcissism there, actually. What's to ship?

And what about Sheldon evoking Rosa Parks, and Leonard turning to Raj and asking: "Is this a time we can pretend you're black to avoid getting beat up?" Wow. And Kunal has to sit there and grin through that one? That was uncomfortable.

 

Edited by Lionne
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That was... something... I guess. Jeez.

- I really liked the part with Beverly and the girls. I thought overall Beverly's disappointment about the wedding was played just right - she didn't get all sentimental but it was more about the principle of it all. Penny hugging her at the end was adorable!

- The Shamy spat was okay but could have been funnier and more heartfelt. A missed opportunity, oh well.. WE_COULD_HAVE_HAD_IT_ALL.mp3

- Sheldon's line etiquette fight with that random dude though was the part that was really dragging this down. Why the hell was this going on for so long?? jfc

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44 minutes ago, Lionne said:

But Cam, he called Amy a peach. Surely we can swoon over that and fan wank the rest, right? Not like the fact Sheldon put a 3 minute limit, clothes on massage - Meaning the joke is that he still doesn't want to TOUCH her, a fact she's whining and moping and sad about - should give pause to shipping this couple. Seriously, the point is that he doesn't want to touch her. Still. Now.

You said in a post recently that the show made you feel like a fool. I thought the same. The show is making me feel foolish for shipping this couple, and even after coitus the jokes of Amy desperately wanting more physical intimacy and Sheldon having no desire or interest are coming fast and furious. And I think that's the point of no return - I never thought the writers would be so cruel as to withhold Sheldon's desire once they reached this stage in Amy and Sheldon's relationship. With the train kiss, you could see Sheldon's desire and change, how it rocked him and made him realize he might need to re-evaluate his previous convictions. But with coitus, he did it to make Amy happy, as a gift to her, but not out of his own desire, and since then there's no hint of that desire. Indeed, we get jokes like the massage ones - Sheldon equates a massage to groping her, and doesn't want any other man doing it. But he doesn't want to do it himself either. Genuine narcissism there, actually. What's to ship?

And what about Sheldon evoking Rosa Parks, and Leonard turning to Raj and asking: "Is this a time we can pretend you're black to avoid getting beat up?" Wow. And Kunal has to sit there and grin through that one? That was uncomfortable.

 

Lol yesterday I ranted for pages on the discussion thread until everyone got annoyed. So today I thought maybe I should be a little more positive for a change. Sadly I failed.

You're right. It really was kind of pathetic. I watched again and I felt bad for Amy because when she said the soft boiled egg line, the audience laughed so hard. I get it, it was a funny line. This is a comedy and it's all for a laugh and I really shouldn't overreact. But still I feel bad for Amy. It was like bullying, to laugh at how miserable and pathetic Amy is. Ugh...

I tried really hard to love Shamy in this episode. I first tried the massage thing, but later I realized it wasn't sweet. Then I tried to be happy with the "babe" line until someone on tumblr pointed out Sheldon called Penny "babe" in 8x16...I wanted to understand Sheldon's perspective so I looked for traces of him being genuine and sorry. No such luck. Because he thought the apology was nonsense.

So now I give up.  

Edited by camelliayao
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A meh episode overall, creating more conflict and angst when there was no need to really.

Not going to defend Sheldon here as he was a jerk, the writers seem to be really struggling on how to balance his character right now and how fast they want to show how much he has changed. I think to a degree they are scared about how much they change him because he's this unique character that is highly popular and yet he has shown signs of major change, the writers just seem to be up and down and all over the place from week to week with his character.

Am I going to abandon the Shamy ship? No, but if they don't speed it up in Season 10 I am going to start to get a little bit concerned and vent my ire at the writers.

It's not out of character for Beverly to be deep down upset and actually care more about Leonard and Penny than people think. She could just be one of these people that suppresses their true feelings a lot which could have stemmed from a life experience perhaps during her childhood. I do hope in the finale they find a way to bond, but then again it looks like more conflict s the writers seem to be stuck in silly conflict=humor at the moment.

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I loved Sheldon's blue gravitational waves T-Shirt. Has he worn it before ? 

 Recently 3 scientists discovered gravitational waves to win a million dollar prize. So gravitational waves have potential like visible light.  I think Kip Thorne from CalTech was one of the winners. Sheldon's tee became weirdly relevent to it . What a coincidence. 

Anyone notice this ?

 

Edited by serena_nyc1995

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Did anyone honestly think Sheldon is gonna turn into some kind of sex-crazed man when they had their first time? I think it was clear that Sheldon didn't do it out of his own desire, but to make Amy happy. Why would anyone think he would be open for more physical affection after that? I just don't see the problem. 

I remember, a while back, you were all gushing over the fact that Shamy is different and not like any ordinary couple. They're clearly keeping it this way now, but everyone is complaining about it. I don't get it.

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38 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

Did anyone honestly think Sheldon is gonna turn into some kind of sex-crazed man when they had their first time? I think it was clear that Sheldon didn't do it out of his own desire, but to make Amy happy. Why would anyone think he would be open for more physical affection after that? I just don't see the problem. 

I remember, a while back, you were all gushing over the fact that Shamy is different and not like any ordinary couple. They're clearly keeping it this way now, but everyone is complaining about it. I don't get it.

Oh boy where do I start...

First I'm totally fine with Sheldon being asexual, as long as the writers give Amy a choice. Like they could make Amy asexual too. Then Shamy will truly be a relationship of minds and that'll be so unique. They could also make Amy heterosexual and have sexual desire towards Sheldon. It's also fine. But Amy should KNOW that Sheldon is asexual. The writers should show us that Amy's well aware Sheldon has no desire towards her and she's Ok with that. 

But what did the show do? The show educated us to not label Sheldon even though everything since the coitus episode indicated that Sheldon is asexual. All right, we won't label him. But their first time has to do somthing to Sheldon, right? Turns out nah, it's like he totally forgot about the thing. The show made fun of Amy's desire in almost every episode since 9x11. Also the show never made it clear whether Amy knew that Sheldon only had coitus for her, not for his own pleasure.

The thing that went wrong was not Sheldon or his sexuality, but the way the writers treated Amy. Amy shouldn't be THAT happy with coitus being a gift. Amy should've realized by now that Sheldon is not (at least not very much) physically attracted to her. Then she either accepts it and stop complaining about their lack of intimacy or talks the issue out and comes up with a solution with Sheldon that both of them can agree on. 

But the show did none of those things. It just keeps making fun of Amy and keeps Shamy's sex life vague. 

Edited by camelliayao
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The scene about cutting in line really made me cringe and it made me wonder how the writers thought that was funny.  If you look at Leonard during that scene and how his expression said he wanted to be anywhere but there, while Sheldon's rant was goin on, I felt the same way.

I again felt the girl's together are more interesting and funny together than the guys, I have been feeling that more and more the last couple of seasons.  Amy seemed very honest to me, she seemed like an adult young woman talking about her problems with her boyfriend in a group she felt safe in, my heart actually went out for her.  Penny was trying so hard to bond with her mother-in-law it made me feel sorry for her, she really seemed like a typical newly married wife to me just trying to be liked by her husband's family.  BTW Kaley's facial expressions during the scenes of them together were great and said more than words could have ever said.  Then finally Bernadette was trying to be the good friend during everything, which came off well for the character.

 Bev to me treated Penny like Leonard which actually didn't surprise me, but her telling Penny she was hurt by not being told or asked to the wedding seemed weird to me, especially when afterward she said she wouldn't have come and would have told them it was mistake.  Then her saying Leonard was happy, didn't do anything for me, Penny's reaction seemed ten times more important to the story line then anything Bev felt to me.

l really see this being a build up episode to next week, and I'm now interested to see if I am right about that.

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I liked the episode, but it seemed a little bit boring to me tbh... The highlights for me were the beginning, cause there's just not enough Penny talking science, or Sheldon talking pop culture, and the Stuart yelling at Sheldon as Amy.... I just wish he yelled louder : D Everything else was kinda cool but not so funny. 
I have no idea why they're making fun of Raj with that stick... I think he's the smartest of them all to prefer comfort to social opinion (I still don't get why the hell social opinion would judge that stick though ).
And I usually love all of Sheldon's compulsions, but the one from this episode I just don't share. It felt too 'righteous' and a little bit boring tbh.

Beverly was hilarious as usual, but I don't get why does Penny want her acceptance so much, but it's a long story...
Proud of Sheldon for giving Amy a massage, I'm not a germaphobe and I wouldn't give anyone a massage haha.

But tbh Howardette looked like the most normal couple for me in this ep... And I do feel more connected to Howard now, cause I also give interviews in the shower x D
Overall I liked it, it felt a lot like old school TBBT in some ways, but I hope the finale is funnier.

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Can anyone figure out why Leonard's mother is so concern about how Leonard's junk turned out and his sex life it seems to be the only thing she's interested in about him

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

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3 hours ago, Lionne said:

Indeed, we get jokes like the massage ones - Sheldon equates a massage to groping her, and doesn't want any other man doing it. But he doesn't want to do it himself either. Genuine narcissism there, actually. What's to ship?

I do still love them and ship them and didn't mind their spat in this ep , but just wanted to say I agree with this part so much! His jealousy last week pissed me off to no end.
I don't like all jealousy, but at least I could understand it if he just wanted to be 'the only one' to touch her. I would lable it old-fashioned and conservative and not my style to ship, but I would have understood. But he doesn't want to 'grope' her, but doesn't want someone else to 'grope' her either?! wtf?! Don't want someone to grope your girl - do it yourself and in excess lol.

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Also the opening scene to me was a big flashback to season 1&2 Sheldon and Penny.  In seasons 1&2, Sheldon and Penny fought like siblings and Leonard would try to moderate them like the adult.  Last night opened with the two, who have now known each other for 8 years and get along, quieting playing flash cards, again like two siblings, until the adult comes out to ask what they are doing.  It to me reinforced the brother/sister relationship Sheldon and Penny have.

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4 hours ago, Lionne said:

 

And what about Sheldon evoking Rosa Parks, and Leonard turning to Raj and asking: "Is this a time we can pretend you're black to avoid getting beat up?" Wow. And Kunal has to sit there and grin through that one? That was uncomfortable.

 

Remember when Sheldon schooled Raj on Hindu mythology? Remember when his bluntness coincided with some measure of cultural sensitivity? No? Might that be because, circa Season Six, the writers realised that they could use Sheldon's bluntness to deliver all the racist, sexist jokes they wanted, and they could hide behind that threadbare fig-leaf of 'It's only Sheldon'? Who didn't love Sheldon calling the HR representative a slave? Or all his delightful remarks about ovaries and goofy juice? Or comparing being asked to attend Thanksgiving at the Wolowitzes with slavery? And it's all fine, because-tee hee!- it's only Sheldon! His (undiagnosed) issues with social contact mean that he can turn, at will, into some of the shittier corners of Reddit. Because....being racist/sexist is the same thing as being socially clueless. Geddit? Or maybe the show's implying that people on the autism spectrum have absolutely no conception of history, morality or even human decency. Fabulous. The Last Sitcom Juggernaut, ladies and gentlemen.

The show will have him making hiiiii-larious rape jokes soon enough, and we'll be expected to forgive it. Hey, why not? They've already had Amy imply that she was 'asking for it' at frat-house parties.

To be clear: I've never liked it when Sheldon makes that sort of joke. But there was a time that I held desperately to the hope that they were an aberration. But I can't anymore if the show has decided to dust off Season Seven scripts- and now, apparently, Season Six because they ran out of Season Seven, I guess?

And no, making a half-hearted insertion about the Lenny wedding with Beverley's apparently-secret-warm-gooey-centre does not count as meaningful acknowledgement of the march of time. 

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16 minutes ago, SRAM said:

Also the opening scene to me was a big flashback to season 1&2 Sheldon and Penny.  In seasons 1&2, Sheldon and Penny fought like siblings and Leonard would try to moderate them like the adult.  Last night opened with the two, who have now known each other for 8 years and get along, quieting playing flash cards, again like two siblings, until the adult comes out to ask what they are doing.  It to me reinforced the brother/sister relationship Sheldon and Penny have.

Problem with that scene is that Lenny's married and it obvious they are living with Sheldon. Ironically why do they have girls night in 4b if they are living in 4a? I get the season 1&2 reference but to me I might of enjoyed it if they were 4b.

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This is an episode where I felt that on paper it was funnier than what we actually saw.  Overall I was unimpressed with the episode other than the scenes with the girls and Beverly.   Those scenes and Stuart's performance were the only salvation for the show.

I hated the cold open with Sheldon and Penny because it again just slaps in our faces how much Sheldon and Penny are very comfortable living together and very happy as clams together while Leonard is the outsider. I hate that.  Likewise it just seemed totally out of character where Sheldon actually wanted to learn about celebs and Penny wanted to learn science.   Just very uncharacteristic.   The only way I could see Penny caring enough about Science is to impress Leonard and Beverly, other than that she could care less about it.  And there is literally no excuse that I can come up with why Sheldon would care about celebs.  So it was beyond manufactured and forced and to me was very annoying.

I hated the confrontation scene with the "line-cutter" at the movie theater.  It was a huge waste of time, which is precious on BBT given they have so many commercials, and in the grand scheme of things is totally irrelevant to the show.  So why waste the time?  Johnny's facial expressions as Leonard expressed what we were all feeling..."let's move one and shut up" kind of feel.  

I hated that Sheldon once again could not possibly have any empathy for Amy when he made the decision to hire Stuart (although kudos to Kevin for a great performance), to go shopping with her because he would rather stand in line at the movies.   It shows me that the entire first half of the season during the breakup taught him very little and that he can have empathy for everyone BUT Amy it seems.   

While I liked Amy held her ground, I almost rooted for her to not accept his apology because it did not come across that sincere to me and again he was more interested in getting back to the theater than actually caring about whether she was truly okay and that they were back on the same page.   At the very least he should have gone over and given her a peck on the lips for her generous acceptance but instead he dashed out.  It just seemed very unsatisfying.

Kevin's performance, as I mentioned above, was terrific and I loved how he finally was getting some cash for being the go-between instead of looking just like a sad sack all the time.   

I also liked the interaction with the women and their talking about some recent studies, etc. instead of just talking about relationships overall.   I liked their interactions and loved that Beverly and Amy connected which they should given both share similar interests scientifically and both admire Sheldon.   I don't know why Penny suddenly was surprised at Beverly's behavior.   While she and Bev may have gotten along somewhat in the past, she should know that Beverly is always a cold-fish and would not ever be a warm mother-in-law.    

Overall I say it was just an okay episode where I thought it was going to be far funnier than it ended up airing.  I also feel that it came across far more disappointing as far as Shamy and Lenny than it sounded on paper.   So yeah...by far not my favorite.

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Strange episode! Penny and Beverley already made peace yearssssssss ago at the end of season three, when they went out drinking together (3.11). A much funnier episode to boot. I don't understand Beverley being upset at not being invited to a Vegas elopement either. She's never cared about anything relating to her son? Penny was cute though when she hugged her.

Best part, Sheldon and Penny playing games although I would have appreciated a bit more sarcasm between them. Like the old days.

 

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5 hours ago, FileXxX said:

Did anyone honestly think Sheldon is gonna turn into some kind of sex-crazed man when they had their first time? I think it was clear that Sheldon didn't do it out of his own desire, but to make Amy happy. Why would anyone think he would be open for more physical affection after that? I just don't see the problem. 

I remember, a while back, you were all gushing over the fact that Shamy is different and not like any ordinary couple. They're clearly keeping it this way now, but everyone is complaining about it. I don't get it.

No. Nothing changed. Sheldon's Sheldon. Amy's a doormat. Any woman who had spine would of dumped him on the spot. She broke up before on less than that.

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25 minutes ago, stardustmelody said:

This is an episode where I felt that on paper it was funnier than what we actually saw.  Overall I was unimpressed with the episode other than the scenes with the girls and Beverly.   Those scenes and Stuart's performance were the only salvation for the show.

I hated the cold open with Sheldon and Penny because it again just slaps in our faces how much Sheldon and Penny are very comfortable living together and very happy as clams together while Leonard is the outsider. I hate that.  Likewise it just seemed totally out of character where Sheldon actually wanted to learn about celebs and Penny wanted to learn science.   Just very uncharacteristic.   The only way I could see Penny caring enough about Science is to impress Leonard and Beverly, other than that she could care less about it.  And there is literally no excuse that I can come up with why Sheldon would care about celebs.  So it was beyond manufactured and forced and to me was very annoying.

I hated the confrontation scene with the "line-cutter" at the movie theater.  It was a huge waste of time, which is precious on BBT given they have so many commercials, and in the grand scheme of things is totally irrelevant to the show.  So why waste the time?  Johnny's facial expressions as Leonard expressed what we were all feeling..."let's move one and shut up" kind of feel.  

I hated that Sheldon once again could not possibly have any empathy for Amy when he made the decision to hire Stuart (although kudos to Kevin for a great performance), to go shopping with her because he would rather stand in line at the movies.   It shows me that the entire first half of the season during the breakup taught him very little and that he can have empathy for everyone BUT Amy it seems.   

While I liked Amy held her ground, I almost rooted for her to not accept his apology because it did not come across that sincere to me and again he was more interested in getting back to the theater than actually caring about whether she was truly okay and that they were back on the same page.   At the very least he should have gone over and given her a peck on the lips for her generous acceptance but instead he dashed out.  It just seemed very unsatisfying.

Kevin's performance, as I mentioned above, was terrific and I loved how he finally was getting some cash for being the go-between instead of looking just like a sad sack all the time.   

I also liked the interaction with the women and their talking about some recent studies, etc. instead of just talking about relationships overall.   I liked their interactions and loved that Beverly and Amy connected which they should given both share similar interests scientifically and both admire Sheldon.   I don't know why Penny suddenly was surprised at Beverly's behavior.   While she and Bev may have gotten along somewhat in the past, she should know that Beverly is always a cold-fish and would not ever be a warm mother-in-law.    

Overall I say it was just an okay episode where I thought it was going to be far funnier than it ended up airing.  I also feel that it came across far more disappointing as far as Shamy and Lenny than it sounded on paper.   So yeah...by far not my favorite.

...while I agree with a lot of what you said, I disagree that it was dissapointing for Leonard/Penny fans.  This was (to me) a home run for my favorite pair, as Penny was all about her husband here.  From agreeing to go pick Bev up from the airport (badly done there Leonard) to wanting to stick up for her and her husband's relationship was something I've been wanting to see.  The wearing of the heart-shape locket the latter part of this season is an extreme pick-me-up for this relationship.  It is a little thing that she does to show that, yes this is still a love affair (again, to me).

Finally, her reaction to Bev's statement that Leonard appears happier than he has been was fantastic.  She was over-the-moon to hear that and was a precious moment.  So, for me, when you couple that with some of the other "girl's-night" bits, Kevin's wonderful perfomance as Stuart, this was all in all a pretty good episode.  (again, I agree with you regarding Sheldon.....)

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beverly loves the other couples, but not her own sons.

was that sweet hug penny gave her mil.

sheldons apology was rushed just to get amy off

his "back", it had a car waiting down stairs to take him back

to get in line for the movie

 

 

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8 hours ago, wowbagger said:

Kardashians? Oh boy. Show, you need to beg, borrow or steal another trash-culture reference. Sometimes I wonder how old the writing staff is, because I swear, this is truly 'Please, Dad, stop trying to be cool' level.

Is that not what what we should expect. The writers room is full of nerds which explains the rich nerd references..

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2 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Is that not what what we should expect. The writers room is full of nerds which explains the rich nerd references..

It is very much what I would expect- but I mean that unflatteringly. To me, it is akin to thinking that Truman jokes are the cutting edge of political satire. Okay, that's unkind. Bill Clinton blow-job jokes?

And we may have to agree to disagree about the richness of the nerd references on the show- at least right now. If you're terrified of making a reference that even 1% of your audience won't understand, that is, by definition, not nerdery.

To be clear: I'm not saying that nerds all have to be into Kafka or the history of the Reimann hypothesis or whatever. You can be into the most popular thing in the world. We, for example, are fans of a popular thing- this show. But time spent watching more-than-casually have given us a level of engagement/knowledge/detail of memory that casual viewers wouldn't be expected to have, and that would normally be reflected in our discussions. We wouldn't be having a discussion about the show in which we communicate solely by yelling 'Bazinga!' at each other. 

By the same token, simply saying 'Avengers movie!' or 'Star Wars!' or 'Game of Thrones!' is not nerdery, to me. Nerdery- again, for me- would be the gang dissecting specific plot points and themes for long enough to show that the writers- and characters- have actually bothered getting into the fictional universe that the 'nerds' are supposedly steeped in.* But the writers seem absolutely terrified that even one person in the English-speaking world may not get a reference. And the instant a reference becomes specific, the bigger the risk of alienating that one notional person. So the writers seemingly self-censor. Or are lazy. Or both.

* Which is why I will give them the little sliver of credit of Sheldon making a reference to something that happens to Bran late-ish in the Song of Ice and Fire books. It's not an obscure factoid, by any means, but at least it's there.

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I actually liked the opening. Thought it was really cute and true to the characters. Just because they're both taken doesn't mean they're not allowed to have fun with other people. :icon_rolleyes:

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