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923 'The Line Substitution Solution' (May 5)

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48 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

But the writers seem absolutely terrified that even one person in the English-speaking world may not get a reference. And the instant a reference becomes specific, the bigger the risk of alienating that one notional person. So the writers seemingly self-censor. Or are lazy. Or both.

There have been references over the years that I have had to look up. For example I watched firefly after hearing a reference on TBBT. I had no idea who Kevin Smith was. Also there are references that many here may not know. The Voyager spacecraft for example.

Quote

Raj: Sheldon, you know what I think of when I’m scared? Voyager.

Sheldon: Voyager the space probe or Voyager the Star Trek TV show?

Raj: The space probe.

Sheldon: Good. Because I am too hot and tired to go on about how much I hate Voyager the TV show.

Raj: By the time I was born, Voyager 1’s mission was supposed to be over. It had seen Jupiter and Saturn and all their moons, but it kept going. When I left India for America, I was never more scared in my life. I had no idea what lay ahead. Whenever I feel that way, I think about how Voyager is still out there somewhere beyond our solar system, going further than anyone ever thought it could. Don’t leave. You can do this.

So one might expect these really smart physicists may have been more into science fiction novels and less into comic books and comic con but hey why not have them into stuff that will catch the attention of more viewers?

Edited by djsurrey

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40 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

It is very much what I would expect- but I mean that unflatteringly. To me, it is akin to thinking that Truman jokes are the cutting edge of political satire. Okay, that's unkind. Bill Clinton blow-job jokes?

And we may have to agree to disagree about the richness of the nerd references on the show- at least right now. If you're terrified of making a reference that even 1% of your audience won't understand, that is, by definition, not nerdery.

To be clear: I'm not saying that nerds all have to be into Kafka or the history of the Reimann hypothesis or whatever. You can be into the most popular thing in the world. We, for example, are fans of a popular thing- this show. But time spent watching more-than-casually have given us a level of engagement/knowledge/detail of memory that casual viewers wouldn't be expected to have, and that would normally be reflected in our discussions. We wouldn't be having a discussion about the show in which we communicate solely by yelling 'Bazinga!' at each other. 

By the same token, simply saying 'Avengers movie!' or 'Star Wars!' or 'Game of Thrones!' is not nerdery, to me. Nerdery- again, for me- would be the gang dissecting specific plot points and themes for long enough to show that the writers- and characters- have actually bothered getting into the fictional universe that the 'nerds' are supposedly steeped in.* But the writers seem absolutely terrified that even one person in the English-speaking world may not get a reference. And the instant a reference becomes specific, the bigger the risk of alienating that one notional person. So the writers seemingly self-censor. Or are lazy. Or both.

* Which is why I will give them the little sliver of credit of Sheldon making a reference to something that happens to Bran late-ish in the Song of Ice and Fire books. It's not an obscure factoid, by any means, but at least it's there.

Good points all.  Being at the end of the 9th season with a 10th guaranteed (as guaranteed as possible, I suppose) and an option for an 11th, you would think there would be the ability or the want to say "f**k it all! Let's write something for us! D**n trying to make that casual viewer happy!", but it appears to be the opposite.

Despite what is said to the public, I would think some of the actors (read: Galecki, Cuoco & Parsons) would be looking to move on to other things.  One to producing and behind-the-camera roles; one to having more leisure time for a beloved sport/hobby; the third to return to theatrical roles.  I guess what I'm saying is that I think that anything beyond 11 may be shaky (in my opinion...).

Edited by hokie3457
Wow! text from the end of the post jumped to the beginning. Took it out!
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9 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

I actually liked the opening. Thought it was really cute and true to the characters. Just because they're both taken doesn't mean they're not allowed to have fun with other people. :icon_rolleyes:

I liked it too.  Felt very old school, and all 3 were true to themselves.  It worked for me.

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56 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

By the same token, simply saying 'Avengers movie!' or 'Star Wars!' or 'Game of Thrones!' is not nerdery, to me. Nerdery- again, for me- would be the gang dissecting specific plot points and themes for long enough to show that the writers- and characters- have actually bothered getting into the fictional universe that the 'nerds' are supposedly steeped in.

They have done more with Star Wars than mention it. I actually would not get any GOT references as it is just too intense for me. I did not even like the Prolog to the first book. I think they have missed some likely references. Stranger in a Strange Land comes to mind (thinking of sheldon). 

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1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

Good points all.  Being at the end of the 9th season with a 10th guaranteed (as guaranteed as possible, I suppose) and an option for an 11th, you would think there would be the ability or the want to say "f**k it all! Let's write something for us! D**n trying to make that casual viewer happy!", but it appears to be the opposite.

Despite what is said to the public, I would think some of the actors (read: Galecki, Cuoco & Parsons) would be looking to move on to other things.  One to producing and behind-the-camera roles; one to having more leisure time for a beloved sport/hobby; the third to return to theatrical roles.  I guess what I'm saying is that I think that anything beyond 11 may be shaky (in my opinion...).

I think season 12 is very unsure, the contracts for the big 3 shall be renewed after season 11 and only god knows what ratings and viewers there will be in season 11

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If you want my opinion,TBBT is always the TOP comedy show of America!I think that they go beyond season 10 because ratings are high,there are many stories to tell and the actors want to continue!

Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

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2 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

Good points all.  Being at the end of the 9th season with a 10th guaranteed (as guaranteed as possible, I suppose) and an option for an 11th, you would think there would be the ability or the want to say "f**k it all! Let's write something for us! D**n trying to make that casual viewer happy!", but it appears to be the opposite.

Despite what is said to the public, I would think some of the actors (read: Galecki, Cuoco & Parsons) would be looking to move on to other things.  One to producing and behind-the-camera roles; one to having more leisure time for a beloved sport/hobby; the third to return to theatrical roles.  I guess what I'm saying is that I think that anything beyond 11 may be shaky (in my opinion...).

both johnny, kaley give heartfelt talks at the taping, glad to be here

for 'US'. who is to say they are now negotiating for a new 3 year

deal that begin in late january. 

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Why is it that Sheldon and Penny playing a game together is some kind of slap in the face?  So, they're friends.  So, L/P have agreed to stay in 4A for now.

So. Friggin. What?  How does it damage anyone's relationship?  Had Leonard ever cared whether or not Penny can identify a Venn Diagram?  Has Penny ever cared whether or not Leonard can tell a Kardashian from anyone else?

It's like Amy's made up languages or the various little Shamy games.  They exist between the people who play them, but have no real bearing on the other relationships around them, for better or worse.

It's simply the dichotomy between their worlds or their view of the world.  Just like in the Physics Bowl episode when Penny brings in the Trivial Pursuit cards and the guys have no clue about The Brady Bunch or Van Halen.

 

While I agree that the whole line-cutting things was not all that funny and went on too long, I don't think the other aspects were bad at all.

One thing I was curious about was why Amy was "making" Sheldon go shopping with her in the first place.  What kind of shopping?  Like Stuart said, "Old Navy? Build-a-Bear?"  Why did Sheldon "have" to go with her?  To hold her purchases?  To help her make shopping decisions?  Was she going to be buying him underwear?  Why did he have to go along in the first place?

While it's true that he should have just told her he didn't want to go, I was just wondering what her reasoning was in the first place.

I did like the conversation at Penny's place, with Penny feeling overlooked and insulted.  While people tend to think of Beverly as a monster, in the end, she's still Leonard's mother.  And while she made not have made it a priority to attend the wedding in the first place, I think she may have found that not knowing about it hit her harder than she might have thought it would.  People are funny that way.  You don't always know what you wanted until you realized you missed out on it.  And this does come after that time when she began to question what her parenting technique might have cost her over the years.

At any rate, though it wasn't the strongest episode, it still wasn't horrible.  IMO

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1 hour ago, mjc45 said:

both johnny, kaley give heartfelt talks at the taping, glad to be here

for 'US'. who is to say they are now negotiating for a new 3 year

deal that begin in late january. 

I'd totally be in for another three years of TBBT.

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36 minutes ago, phantagrae said:

Why is it that Sheldon and Penny playing a game together is some kind of slap in the face?  So, they're friends.  So, L/P have agreed to stay in 4A for now.

So. Friggin. What?  How does it damage anyone's relationship?  Had Leonard ever cared whether or not Penny can identify a Venn Diagram?  Has Penny ever cared whether or not Leonard can tell a Kardashian from anyone else?

It's like Amy's made up languages or the various little Shamy games.  They exist between the people who play them, but have no real bearing on the other relationships around them, for better or worse.

It's simply the dichotomy between their worlds or their view of the world.  Just like in the Physics Bowl episode when Penny brings in the Trivial Pursuit cards and the guys have no clue about The Brady Bunch or Van Halen.

 

While I agree that the whole line-cutting things was not all that funny and went on too long, I don't think the other aspects were bad at all.

One thing I was curious about was why Amy was "making" Sheldon go shopping with her in the first place.  What kind of shopping?  Like Stuart said, "Old Navy? Build-a-Bear?"  Why did Sheldon "have" to go with her?  To hold her purchases?  To help her make shopping decisions?  Was she going to be buying him underwear?  Why did he have to go along in the first place?

While it's true that he should have just told her he didn't want to go, I was just wondering what her reasoning was in the first place.

I did like the conversation at Penny's place, with Penny feeling overlooked and insulted.  While people tend to think of Beverly as a monster, in the end, she's still Leonard's mother.  And while she made not have made it a priority to attend the wedding in the first place, I think she may have found that not knowing about it hit her harder than she might have thought it would.  People are funny that way.  You don't always know what you wanted until you realized you missed out on it.  And this does come after that time when she began to question what her parenting technique might have cost her over the years.

 

Then why'is she entertaining Beverly in 4b while living in 4a? There's no point in seeing 4b period. Since you brought up physics bowl why not have Leonard sleep with Leslie for old time sake.

in regards to why Amy is making Sheldon go shopping who cares. It sounds like we're trying to excuse Sheldon's behavior. He agreed to do it and obviously going to the movie was more important than being with his girlfriend.

in regards to Beverly she is an unnecessary character. I wish they could just make her go away, PERMANENTLY.

Edited by Chrismo
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1 hour ago, kitlovesjim said:

What happened to this thread? Seems like few people make comments..

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Personally, I don't have much to add to what has been said.

The episode was OK+. The best part was with Beverley, with Penny in the car, then with the girls at 4B. The only thing I didn't like was " the revelation": It did sound OOC for Beverly to want to be invited.

I quite liked Stuart's part, yes it was pathetic but it also was funny. I was OK with Shamy's reconciliation, Sheldon came to apologize in person while he could have waited for the film to end to do so, so it's fine.

And like most of the posters, I thought the part with the " line-cutter" extremely boring and pointless. I felt like Leonard the entire time: stare at your shoes and pretend you don't know that lunatic who compares " the line etiquette " to Rosa Parks' civil rights fight. Oh really, what were the writers thinking? It's been

It's been a moment I think the writin is terrible but this moments is one of the worst of the show.

 

( Sorry, can't edit my post, idk why.... )

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46 minutes ago, Tensor said:

This is frigging what.  There is no reason for Leonard and Penny to pay for two apartments, it's just plain stupid, it's been stupid for the whole year.   Every scene this year could have been the same if Penny and Leonard had been living in 4B, with minor editing for location.  Even the scene where Sheldon walked into the bathroom when Penny was taking a shower could have been placed in 4B.  Sheldon has broken into her apartment before, why not for that?  If the writers don't have the guts to write Leonard and Penny moving out, they should just get rid of 4B, there is no reason for it. 

Having L/P living in 4A is causing the writing to degenerate into more implausible situations each episode. This outing especially was indicative of that feeling.

- They have papered over the reason that the third best salesperson at a giant Pharma company, who makes so much money that she needs an investment advisor has to live with her successful Ph.D scientist husband in a 4th floor walk-up with an eccentric man-child who drives them both batty.

- Even when her husband can't take it anymore, she vetoes his moving them out to the apartment they are paying for (4B) because she has some "special bond" with the crazy roommate.

- They have made a half-assed effort  to suggest that L/P may have money issues because of Penny's massive credit card debt. But Leonard has paid the rent in 4B and his portion of 4A with his own income before (probably for months when Penny was unemployed in season 7), so now that Penny is making far more money than Leonard paying the nut on 4B should be easier. As Tensor said, it's stupid for them to pay for an apartment they don't need. Either get out of 4A or get rid of 4B.

Yes, we know that they want to keep the original setup for the show as long as they can. And they must have thought having L/P/S living together to be a gold mine of comedy but this strains credulity to the point of irritation.

 

Edited by BangerMain
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16 hours ago, camelliayao said:

Lol yesterday I ranted for pages on the discussion thread until everyone got annoyed. So today I thought maybe I should be a little more positive for a change. Sadly I failed.

You're right. It really was kind of pathetic. I watched again and I felt bad for Amy because when she said the soft boiled egg line, the audience laughed so hard. I get it, it was a funny line. This is a comedy and it's all for a laugh and I really shouldn't overreact. But still I feel bad for Amy. It was like bullying, to laugh at how miserable and pathetic Amy is. Ugh...

I tried really hard to love Shamy in this episode. I first tried the massage thing, but later I realized it wasn't sweet. Then I tried to be happy with the "babe" line until someone on tumblr pointed out Sheldon called Penny "babe" in 8x16...I wanted to understand Sheldon's perspective so I looked for traces of him being genuine and sorry. No such luck. Because he thought the apology was nonsense.

So now I give up.  

yup... some "Shenny-benefits" I guess .. @Lionne and @camelliayao i couldn't agree more with your posts... the part I liked the most was definitely Beverly and Amy, i really loved finally see someone who shows a little bit of empathy, respect and sympathy for amy, for who she is without the need to make fun of her feelings, concerns or complains.. like Bev said: You're an extraordinary woman!! i loved that line and the way Christine delivered it was awesome.. 
what can i say about the rest of the episode that has not being said it yet?...I felt very sad when amy asked stuart if sheldon paid him to spend time with her, my god!! (mayim did a great job as always)..you can see the disappointment and sad in her face because they're returning to square 1 again,  I've tried so hard to understand sheldon's behaviour, but i can't, one thing is that he can be clueless, he "has a brillant and complicated mind" but that doesn't mean he can be so inconsiderate all the time, specially with amy and his relationship with her, he was totally aware about the implications of "hiring and paying someone to spend time with his girlfriend" and he didn't care, just did it! there is not excuse for that, not even his "complicated mind", what did he expect?? that amy would be happy and grateful for that?? WTF!! he knows how the pain feels like, he knows how one person can hurt with actions not only with words and clearly he has learning nothing from that.. and the "apology", baby jesus christ!! really? it couldn't be more rushed, fake, halfhearted, selfish than it was because it's impossible!!!!  is that the apology amy "the woman he loves" deserved it?? we've seen a lot of progress with sheldon this season but clearly not towards amy, we've seen him apologizing to the gang, even to emily, being understanding with penny enjoying her company in good and bad moments, playing stup*d celebrity games because now it turns out he's really interested in learn about the thing she likes, otherwise i don't see why he would be interested in that kind of nonsense, he took the time to design an special d&d for bernie,  but with amy the things are exactly the same than before the break up even worst, in sheldon's eyes she doesn't deserve at least a sincerely apology because you know, it's amy we're talking about!!! she doesn't have feelings to care for, she always forgives, she always understands.. how pathetic is that!!!

Edited by Thyanic
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I know amy would happily settle for a semi normal relationship with sheldon but first i think she has to accept that sheldon is in the most important relationship of his life which is with himself

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9 minutes ago, Thyanic said:

 I've tried so hard to understand sheldon's behaviour, but i can't, one thing is that he can be clueless, he "has a brillant and complicated mind" but that doesn't mean he can be so inconsiderate all the time, specially with amy and his relationship with her, he was totally aware about the implications of "hiring and paying someone to spend time with his girlfriend" and he didn't care, just did it! there is not excuse for that, not even his "complicated mind", what did he expect?? that amy would be happy and grateful for that??

I'd guess that his lack of empathy in this case was simply that the activity was shopping. His friends were doing something that he found more interesting. What is he going to contribute to shopping besides indecision. Rather than hiring Stuart he should have just said no to shopping and asked for a different activity. Not everything is for sharing.

When the guys tell him it is possible to get someone else to stand in a line he simply overgeneralises and supposes it could be okay to pay someone to go shopping too.  Well he was not completely off. People do hire others to do their shopping sometimes. It is just that no normal person would think of hiring someone to go shopping with ones girlfriend. It would kind of be offensive. 

I think they included this in this episode so Amy would have something specific to tell Beverly.

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7 hours ago, phantagrae said:

Why is it that Sheldon and Penny playing a game together is some kind of slap in the face?  

(...)

So. Friggin. What?  How does it damage anyone's relationship? 

So much this. I'm genuinely confused why there's such outrage every time Sheldon and Penny have a scene where they don't insult one another. Did I think it was laugh-out-loud funny? No, but I also didn't think, "OMG Penny is friends with Sheldon and they're playing a board game, how dare she?" Penny was trying to build a connection with her husband's awful mother for 95% of the episode, looked pissed and sad when it didn't seem to work and lid up like a Christmas tree when it did, so it was anything but a slap in the face for Lenny. It was a great episode for Lenny. 

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Jmo but it seems like there have been more happy sheldon and penny senses than happy leonard and penny or happy sheldon and amy

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14 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

Jmo but it seems like there have been more happy sheldon and penny senses than happy leonard and penny or happy sheldon and amy

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Yes...this season in particular.   But yes....this is the reason that when you see Sheldon and Penny acting domestic and enjoying playing games together and sitting around in their PJs together...it just comes across as a way to glaringly point to the fact that they are not doing this with their SO's, but instead snark at their SO's or in Sheldon's case often disregard Amy's feelings.   Yes...this is the problem.  No problem seeing them play games together IF they were showing us that these couples were super happy and united most of the time.  An occasional spat is realistic.   But that has not happened.  Instead we see the opposite on screen most of the time...where Sheldon and Penny are happiest with each other than they are with their SO's.   That was the point of the comment.

Edited by stardustmelody
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8 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

Jmo but it seems like there have been more happy sheldon and penny senses than happy leonard and penny or happy sheldon and amy

Can't say I agree with that. And that's comparing apples to oranges. Sheldon and Penny are not in a relationship (nor do they want to be), which makes it a lot less complicated by default. My best friend and her husband just had a new baby and it's taken a toll on their relationship, but they're still making it work. Does that make her friendship with me more special just because we haven't had a fight? Not really.

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13 hours ago, phantagrae said:

One thing I was curious about was why Amy was "making" Sheldon go shopping with her in the first place.  What kind of shopping?  Like Stuart said, "Old Navy? Build-a-Bear?"  Why did Sheldon "have" to go with her?  To hold her purchases?  To help her make shopping decisions?  Was she going to be buying him underwear?  Why did he have to go along in the first place?

While it's true that he should have just told her he didn't want to go, I was just wondering what her reasoning was in the first place.

Both Leonard and Sheldon hate shopping,  from what I gather.Penny and Amy know that.  So I was baffled why they chose 'shopping' as the reason. No specifics. No details. What were they buying ? Where were they going ? Etc Etc. Seems like a cheap one-dimensional way for the writers to give Sheldon an excuse to be a jerk and Amy a reason to be mad at him. Lazy writing is my guess.

Edited by serena_nyc1995
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1 hour ago, No Regrets said:

Penny was trying to build a connection with her husband's awful mother for 95% of the episode, looked pissed and sad when it didn't seem to work and lid up like a Christmas tree when it did, so it was anything but a slap in the face for Lenny. It was a great episode for Lenny. 

Agree. But for the main part it was a great episode for Penny IMO. Seeing Penny beaming in happiness, when Beverly told her that she had never seen Leonard happier, was my personal highlight of the episode.

pennysmile.gif

 

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pennysmile.gifOne of Penny's best episodes ever.  And look! There it is again! The heart-shaped locket! 

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6 hours ago, No Regrets said:

So much this. I'm genuinely confused why there's such outrage every time Sheldon and Penny have a scene where they don't insult one another. Did I think it was laugh-out-loud funny? No, but I also didn't think, "OMG Penny is friends with Sheldon and they're playing a board game, how dare she?" Penny was trying to build a connection with her husband's awful mother for 95% of the episode, looked pissed and sad when it didn't seem to work and lid up like a Christmas tree when it did, so it was anything but a slap in the face for Lenny. It was a great episode for Lenny. 

Because Sheldon is this malevolent force that wrecks marriages and the lives of his friends. Haven't you got the memo?

Seriously they are just close friends that live together so they are going to socialize. Even if Lenny move out they are still going to hang out and play games with Sheldon.

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