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[Spoilers] Season 9-10 Hiatus Thread


Tensor
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I don't think we can generalize so much about the reasons why some people quit watching the show or the way they choose to watch it. There could certainly be people who stop watching TBBT because they didn't like the changes in the show, but at the same time others might have stopped watching it because the changes were too slow. In the same way some people might watch it on delay because the excitement has gone, others (especially young people) because there are new habits in watching tv nowadays. I guess the only "objective" thing are the data @Tensor presented in his posts in the Ratings Thread, which say that TBBT is doing quite well given the situation of broadcast television, but interpreting them as an indication of how people feel about the show is a bit far-fetched IMO.

Edited by mirs1
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I know there are unhappy fans that want the show to change in certain ways but using the argument of viewing figures really isn't that strong. They simply haven't fallen off a cliff, but when that's pointed out the counter is always that the audience wants to see the show through because they have been watching since day 1. I think there is some truth to that but I think it's greatly exaggerated, people just aren't as loyal to TV shows as they once were.

The while issue of living arrangements might be major to us but it's most likely very minor to casual viewers of the show that haven't become as invested as some of us. The show runners and the network know far better than we do about their audience and what they want.

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I find it tough to say that people are tuning out, as the number of viewers, in Live +7, is actually higher than in season six.  Has the demo dropped?  Sure.  But there are several possible reasons for that.  There are some who are 18-34 who are in the main group finding non-traditional was to watch, that are not captured in the ratings.  Those who were 45-49 in season six, are now out of the demo.  But, are evidently still watching, based on viewer numbers.   

I don't think many here realize how strong the show's ratings are.   It's in the top three for not just 18-49, but also 18-34, 25-54, over 55, even 12-17.  (This may be my fault for not putting out those other numbers, but I don't get them often.  thanks Kerry for providing them when you can).  Empire has a very strong following in the younger groups, but it falls off as the demos get older.  NCIS is strong in the older groups, but not so much in the younger.  TBBT, is strong across the board.  

@JE7 there are about 15 million who watch the broadcast.  There are about 5 million who watch with DVR. 

Question. So if i was flicking through channels and came across bbt for a few seconds and then carried on channel changing. Will that count in the rating? If it does then the ratings are not a fair representation of the audience figures.

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6 hours ago, April said:

I don't think that this theory is supported by the actual viewing figures or what went on in the aftermath with the general buzz around the show. When I look at @Tensor's data there is no indication that this development had any negative impact whatsoever. Quite the contrary actually since it's the most critically acclaimed episode of the season from what I can tell.  There was criticism that happened on a very individual level like here in the forum but I don't think that this is any indication for a wider trend. Instead people in many places are eager for more Shamy stories like Opening Night and are starting to roll their eyes at the living arrangements if past interviews are any indication. And Molaro's tune has become a more vague-ish "maybe we'll experiment a little" which kinda feels like he's coming around to the idea of changing the living arrangements. Of course I'll take everything he says with a bucket load of salt and I don't expect anything hasty cause they're basically Ents when it comes to that kind of stuff, but you know fingers crossed and all that! :D

I didn't say that the rating numbers dropped because of the progress between Shamy or the ratings will drop if they change living situation. I was stating what I observed, that after the coitus episode, certain amount of people stopped watching the show. Of course we can't simply blame the ratings change on one or several factors. It's a complex problem.

Also as far as I see, there're just as many people who want Shamy to move faster&more Shamy stories as people who want Shamy to stay the same (or even for the show to go back to its first three seasons). I don't normally see the passion for Shamy among general audience like we tend to see in Shamy fandom (obviously). 

The writers chose to keep things status quo, so I tried to think of a reason and that is they're afraid the viewers may not accept the change and changing the big 3 will impact their ratings, even though that may not be true. And frankly nobody will ever know exactly how much the influence will be, so the writers chose the safest route. Similar with how they dealt with coitus. The "next birthday" line and no following up after coitus are both ways for the writers to calm the audience down and to tell us, see, nothing changes. I believe they refused to change living arrangement for a proper reason, rather than just them being cowards or them lying.

Edited by camelliayao

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Sorry Tensor if I read your numbers wrong however what gets me is the attitude of many that since it is highly rated it will stay that way forever. 

From those I talk to in person (casuals) and what I see online their are a lot of dissatisfied viewers out there and I don't foresee a slow decline I foresee many people finally deciding they have better things to do and just dropping the show. Not a downhill slide as much as falling off a Cliff. Time will tell i think let's see what happens if they go past season 10. I have come to the hope s10 is it because I don't want to see what they can do to it if it continues on its current path

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8 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

The writers chose to keep things status quo, so I tried to think of a reason and that is they're afraid the viewers may not accept the change and changing the big 3 will impact their ratings. Even though that may not be true, that's what they believe. And frankly nobody will ever know exactly how much the influence will be, so they chose the safest route. Similar with how they dealt with coitus. The "next birthday" line and no following up after coitus are both ways for the writers to calm the audience down and to tell us, see, nothing changes. I believe they refused to change living arrangement for a proper reason, rather than just them being cowards or them lying.

Oh I know, after all we all try to make sense of the situation as best as we can. : )

I just wanted to point out that whatever you may have observed on a smaller scale (like people complaining on this forum and declaring they'll quit the show, for example) doesn't necessarily reflect the actual state of the viewing figures cause as Tensor points out time and again the show continues to have strong ratings in every area of measurement. So I have a hard time thinking that the writers are worrying about a ratings crisis and losing viewership when there's no significant indicator that the show is in any danger right now.

And just to get that clear: Me saying the writers are cowards is a reference to Molaro admitting as much in an interview a little while back. I'm not just making something up. He actually talked about how they are scared in the writers' room whenever they're approaching one of those big milestones and the excitement about actually pulling these things off every once in a while. :D

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39 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

Question. So if i was flicking through channels and came across bbt for a few seconds and then carried on channel changing. Will that count in the rating? If it does then the ratings are not a fair representation of the audience figures.

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Ratings are measured in minute increments, then averaged, then extrapolated. So, you would have to be on for at least a minute, to count.   As an example, we'll use one hundred Nielsen people represent 1 million total viewers(I don't have the exact numbers, and the actual algorithm is much more complicated, remember this is a simplified example),

Say, you have 1500 Nielsen people watching TBBT in the first 15 minutes.  This would show 1500 each of the first fifteen minutes.   If 100 more join the program at the 15 minute point, it would now show 1600 watching  the show for each of the second 15 minutes.  If the show ended at the half hour mark, the average for each minute would be 1550, (if you want an explanation of the math, please PM me). which would extrapolate out to 15,500,000 viewers.  One person, being on for one minute, doesn't change the numbers all that much. 

Now, TBBT usually runs until 8:31, to there is an extra minute to add into the average. Staying with the 1500 for the first fifteen minutes and 1600 for the rest of the show, the extra minute with 1600 would change the average to 1,551, which, in our example would extrapolate out to 15,510,000, adding 10,000 to the show's  total viewers.  

This is the main reason TBBT usually picks up at least a tenth in demo, and several tens of thousands of viewers and the show after TBBT loses them.  

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Ratings are measured in minute increments, then averaged, then extrapolated. So, you would have to be on for at least a minute, to count.   As an example, we'll use one hundred Nielsen people represent 1 million total viewers(I don't have the exact numbers, and the actual algorithm is much more complicated, remember this is a simplified example),

Say, you have 1500 Nielsen people watching TBBT in the first 15 minutes.  This would show 1500 each of the first fifteen minutes.   If 100 more join the program at the 15 minute point, it would now show 1600 watching  the show for each of the second 15 minutes.  If the show ended at the half hour mark, the average for each minute would be 1550, (if you want an explanation of the math, please PM me). which would extrapolate out to 15,500,000 viewers.  One person, being on for one minute, doesn't change the numbers all that much. 

Now, TBBT usually runs until 8:31, to there is an extra minute to add into the average. Staying with the 1500 for the first fifteen minutes and 1600 for the rest of the show, the extra minute with 1600 would change the average to 1,551, which, in our example would extrapolate out to 15,510,000, adding 10,000 to the show's  total viewers.  

This is the main reason TBBT usually picks up at least a tenth in demo, and several tens of thousands of viewers and the show after TBBT loses them.  

Thanks Tensor for explaining. So basically the ratings are just like statistics and is not 100% accurate. Just like when you have poles from different websites and those poles have different ratings. Some might rate the show high and some not so high. It just depends on how they get the figures and what system they are using. :)

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4 hours ago, April said:

Oh I know, after all we all try to make sense of the situation as best as we can. : )

I just wanted to point out that whatever you may have observed on a smaller scale (like people complaining on this forum and declaring they'll quit the show, for example) doesn't necessarily reflect the actual state of the viewing figures cause as Tensor points out time and again the show continues to have strong ratings in every area of measurement. So I have a hard time thinking that the writers are worrying about a ratings crisis and losing viewership when there's no significant indicator that the show is in any danger right now.

And just to get that clear: Me saying the writers are cowards is a reference to Molaro admitting as much in an interview a little while back. I'm not just making something up. He actually talked about how they are scared in the writers' room whenever they're approaching one of those big milestones and the excitement about actually pulling these things off every once in a while. :D

Well I was not talking about my observations on the forum, actually they are from a social media website in my country. And the scale is not as small as you think:), consider how many people we have lol. But yeah compared with large viewing numbers of the show, any observation is based on a very small scale. But that doesn't mean the complaints from those people don't matter. 

As for the coward thing, I wouldn't call them cowards based on the example you gave. To me that was just the proof of them trying to please the majority of the audience whenever it comes  to changes of the show. They dealt with every change very very carefully. And in the case of living situation, they chose to not change anything. But we can always hope lol.

Edited by camelliayao

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The problem with extrapolating from 1500 households us that you are extrapolating. They say 1500 equals 15 million but it could mean 1500.

Just saying behind all the math the ratings are still basically a guesstimated number. They are only looking at a certain number of households everything beyond those households is theoretical. If next week the only people who watch are the Nelson households the ratings wouldn't Change even tho only 1500 watched 

Edited by JE7

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I think if they don't move the Hofstadters out of Sheldon's apartment right after the do-over wedding, a lot of people will find something else to watch.  I would think the whole reason to have a re-do, much less one lasting multiple episodes, was to allow TPTB to finally get them away from the dis-functional dependancy issues. This then frees up episode time to be FUNNY again. 

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3 minutes ago, I Miss Dan said:

I think if they don't move the Hofstadters out of Sheldon's apartment right after the do-over wedding, a lot of people will find something else to watch.  I would think the whole reason to have a re-do, much less one lasting multiple episodes, was to allow TPTB to finally get them away from the dis-functional dependancy issues. This then frees up episode time to be FUNNY again. 

We can only hope....... although praying couldn't hurt lol :icon_razz:

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I think if they don't move the Hofstadters out of Sheldon's apartment right after the do-over wedding, a lot of people will find something else to watch.  I would think the whole reason to have a re-do, much less one lasting multiple episodes, was to allow TPTB to finally get them away from the dis-functional dependancy issues. This then frees up episode time to be FUNNY again. 

Its not Sheldon apartment its Sheldon & Leonard's apartment.

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15 minutes ago, I Miss Dan said:

I think if they don't move the Hofstadters out of Sheldon's apartment right after the do-over wedding, a lot of people will find something else to watch.  I would think the whole reason to have a re-do, much less one lasting multiple episodes, was to allow TPTB to finally get them away from the dis-functional dependancy issues. This then frees up episode time to be FUNNY again. 

I disagree, I think we make a bigger deal out of it than most.

Edited by Jonny83
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31 minutes ago, JE7 said:

The problem with extrapolating from 1500 households us that you are extrapolating. They say 1500 equals 15 million but it could mean 1500.

Just saying behind all the math the ratings are still basically a guesstimated number. They are only looking at a certain number of households everything beyond those households is theoretical. If next week the only people who watch are the Nelson households the ratings wouldn't Change even tho only 1500 watched 

You will have a difficult time trying to push that view to the networks and the advertisers.  Both the networks and the advertisers independently check the numbers,  as there are billions of dollars in ad revenue at stake.

There are several methods used to get to the numbers and in addition, several methods to check those numbers.   I've had to use similar methods on some research and data. Manufacturing process use, and indeed, depend on the methods of statistical sampling that Nielsen uses.    

How is it known that the electronic meters are accurate?   Diaries are sent out, then returned and compiled, and then compared to the electronic data.   The diaries are used to check the data from the electronic meters.  And, overall, they match.  There are minor differences, that are used to adjust the algorithms to make them more accurate. 

Is Nielsen tracking everyone?  No, but they don't claim to do this.  What if there are 20 people in a bar, with the TV showing TBBT.  Those 20 would not be counted in the total, but that holds for all shows.   Nielsen is tracking people viewing television at home.    They also currently don't have a way to track streaming viewers, although they are testing several methods. So they are missing the people streaming the show.    Are there inaccuracies?  Sure, some cable shows have so few viewers, that one Nielsen person watching the show can change the household, or demo rating.  But that is known, and those ratings have a rather large error bar.   But, for larger sample sizes, the accuracy is higher.  Broadcast network shows have a large enough statistical sample size the reported ratings are pretty accurate. 

I suppose, statistically,  it's possible that only the people what have Nielsen electronic meters are watching the show.  Just like, statistically, it's possible for all the air in the room I"m in to gather in the corner by the door, leaving me to die due to lack of oxygen. Or, a beautiful girl could form from atoms in the chair next to a physicist at an ice cream shop.  But, it's very unlikely.   

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Reductio ad absurdum dosent change the fact that is a very complicated guess. With data and precedent  to back it up true but still all vuewers past the actually monitored households are theoretical. And it only shows how many watched not thier feeling about the episode 

I am just saying that what i see and hear don't match a satisfied audience and if season 10 Is more of the same I don't think the ratings will hold

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