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[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

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12 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

c ) a man with no sex drive: Oooooohhhhhh boy, I'd suggest donning the hardest hat you can find. I'm not going to go there. I'm just going to say that whatever sexual or romantic drive the fellow has displayed on-screen has been directed at Amy. I have no idea if it registers on your personal scale or whatever, but this is the empirical evidence we have on-screen.

*Fuck you, conventional markers.

Didn't Leonard say "if Sheldon's testosterone was any lower he'd be a butterfly" in front of Amy?

Edited by Capt. Hilts
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I think Amy is horny as hell and as Amy hasn't got a voice as it all about sheldon who keeps teasing her with sexual comments which is just wrong and wanting to have sex with her to have a baby or on her b"day just makes me feel sorry for Amy in a sad way. In real life she would have dumped his arse or cheated on him.

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1 hour ago, BigBang15 said:

Well she doesn't have the brains for it. You know, IRL you have to have at LEAST at Bachelor's Degree to be a pharmaceutical representative. You can't get that at Pasedena Community College, especially if you only took one class there.

I agree with it being unrealistic but that's besides my point. What I wanted to say is that I don't like that it sometimes appears that Penny barely has anything to offer besides her looks, not just in her job. Even in her job they could have her finding new methods, counting on her social skilss without flirting. She can be nice and friendly without flirting. She made friends with Sheldon and he never cared for her looks. Sure Leonard helped but she had to have some good ineterpersonal skills for that, that's Sheldon Cooper for crying out loud! They could also have her say that her memorizing abilities, which she had developed when she was an actress, help her in her new job. They could also get her another job in which she could rely on other skills, not just and not mainly her looks. 

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1 hour ago, Tonstar17 said:

On another note. If you caught your other half with a blow up doll. Would you consider that cheating?

I think the lady's position on that, might depend on whether she has a vibrator/dildo.

If she did have one, it'd be hypocritical to judge her partner, for what is essentially the same thing.

1 hour ago, Tonstar17 said:

And no I haven't got one of Penny.

Do they make an Amy one?

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7 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

I think the lady's position on that, might depend on whether she has a vibrator/dildo.

If she did have one, it'd be hypocritical to judge her partner, for what is essentially the same thing.

Do they make an Amy one?

a_33.gif.a33e9c7f7e5de6d597435cac14a3fd76.gif

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1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

(I don't know - enter your own ideal of feminine sex appeal here)

Amy is my idea of feminine sex appeal.

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1 hour ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Didn't Leonard say "if Sheldon's testosterone was any lower he'd be a butterfly" in front of Amy?

HA! Bless him. I don't know, there is something inordinately funny to me about any of the boys dissing any of the others' manliness. I mean, they're none of them The Hulk, you know?

Also, why a butterfly as a marker of sexlessness? Butterflies actually are sexed (as in, there are male and female butterflies). Also, I'd assume that a butterfly that has managed to pass on its genetic material probably gets quite a lot of action, relative to its lifespan. Anyone want to weigh in? I googled 'butterfly sexuality' and got some very strange results.....

Edited by wowbagger
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53 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Okay, let us parse this. Incidentally, I am not unsympathetic to the notion that there is some misogyny in seasons six, seven and (especially) the back half of season nine, where Sheldon and amy's dynamic was defined less by a meeting of the minds, than by the push/pull between them. I have ranted about this at some length.

But let's take the characteristics you list, one by one:

a ) sex-starved woman: There are two things going on here: One is whether we are really invited to think that Amy's libido is all that high, and two, whether that is automatically misogynist.

as to the first , I invite you to step into the Shamy thread for an exhaustive discursus on whether and to what extent Amy's libido is actually all that high. Yes, the show talks more about her libido than it does about the other female characters. Because the show thinks it is HILARIOUS that anyone should fancy Sheldon. And because Amy, particularly as first introduced, had no filter and the show could get mileage out of her unfiltered confessions rendered in gynaecological HD. HOWEVER. We are still contemplating a female who was introduced taking coitus off the table. Who was put off enough by a hunk of beefcake's oafishness that she said 'nope' after her first libidinal stirrings after some decades.

as to the second: Say Amy is as randy as a boxful of marmosets on a Spanish Fly diet. So what? This is only misogynist if you believe either that sexual desire is bad, or that females specifically should not have it - or should only have it if they have established their worth as sexual objects?

b ) with no sex-appeal: Leaving aside that sex appeal is hardly an objective measure, are we implying that it would be somehow better if Amy looked like Angelina Jolie (I don't know - enter your own ideal of feminine sex appeal here) , energetically pursued Sheldon, and was de facto rebuffed in the face of his obliviousness? Would it be somehow more of a victory for feminism?

where I have SOME sympathy with your point, is if you say that the show is somehow implying that it is AMY'S fault that Sheldon is not interested. But here's the thing: Sheldon has had pretty girls throw themselves at him on-screen, and he has been resolutely oblivious. And on the flip-side, the show has been generally careful to imply that if there is a 'fault', it lies with Sheldon, not Amy. For example, she has excited sexual and romantic interest from other chaps. It was only in the back half of season nine that I thought the dynamic really flirted with the ugly one you imply. Where, post coitus, the shoe couldn't seem to think of better gags than to have sheldon hint at something sexy and then effectively go BAZINGA! While the show displayed a hitherto-unprecedented fascination with Amy's body-hair and conventional markers of feminine repulsiveness*. And, as I say, I ranted about it at length.

c ) a man with no sex drive: Oooooohhhhhh boy, I'd suggest donning the hardest hat you can find. I'm not going to go there. I'm just going to say that whatever sexual or romantic drive the fellow has displayed on-screen has been directed at Amy. I have no idea if it registers on your personal scale or whatever, but this is the empirical evidence we have on-screen.

*Fuck you, conventional markers.

Saying that Amy was sex-starved did not imply that her sex--drive was high or for that matter even average - just non-zero and she was getting zero sex, ever.

That Amy is unattractive is not a matter of the viewer's taste, it has been stated quite often (by Amy, complaining), and obviously wardrobe and make-up have been working to that spec.

For several seasons Sheldon's apparent asexuality was used to intensify the mockery of no-sex-appeal Amy - she was so idiotic she couldn't see S would never be interested in any woman. That went out when S finally cracked under her seige, of course. Another aspect of the stereotype was when deluded Amy imagined Leonard was in love with her - have you nver come across the ugly old maid who imagines men are in love with her in the humour of past centuries?

If you "enjoy" the Amy character, do you think the scene was acceptable where Amy, in the course of complaining about her inability to attract men, said: "It gets worse. I passed out at a frat party and woke up with more clothes on".

Is campus rape really funny?

 

 

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Do they make an Amy one?

Not that i know but they do stock a variety. :)

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8 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

HA! Bless him. I don't know, there is something inordinately funny to me about any of the boys dissing any of the others' manliness. I mean, they're none of them The Hulk, you know?

Also, why a butterfly as a marker of sexlessness? Butterflies actually are sexed (as in, there are male and female butterflies). Also, I'd assume that a butterfly that has managed to pass on its genetic material probably gets quite a lot of action, relative to its lifespan. Anyone want to weigh in? I googled 'butterfly sexuality' and got some very strange results.....

Do we want to see your "search history"?

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There speaks the voice of experience.  

Accidentally googled it. Hate auto correct.

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11 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

I mean, they're none of them The Hulk, you know?

They all four almost were.

From The Convention Conundrum:-

Sheldon: I can’t believe we wasted all that time on our Hulk costumes.

Penny: What? You were all going as the Hulk?

Howard: Not the same Hulk. Ferrigno, Bana, Norton and Ruffalo.

:icon_biggrin:

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14 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

Saying that Amy was sex-starved did not imply that her sex--drive was high or for that matter even average - just non-zero and she was getting zero sex, ever.

That Amy is unattractive is not a matter of the viewer's taste, it has been stated quite often (by Amy, complaining), and obviously wardrobe and make-up have been working to that spec.

For several seasons Sheldon's apparent asexuality was used to intensify the mockery of no-sex-appeal Amy - she was so idiotic she couldn't see S would never be interested in any woman. That went out when S finally cracked under her seige, of course. Another aspect of the stereotype was when deluded Amy imagined Leonard was in love with her - have you nver come across the ugly old maid who imagines men are in love with her in the humour of past centuries?

If you "enjoy" the Amy character, do you think the scene was acceptable where Amy, in the course of complaining about her inability to attract men, said: "It gets worse. I passed out at a frat party and woke up with more clothes on".

Is campus rape really funny?

a_27.gif.29e996df0a14351b2d3a1ec33c5f5e93.gif

:shy:

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32 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

Saying that Amy was sex-starved did not imply that her sex--drive was high or for that matter even average - just non-zero and she was getting zero sex, ever.

That Amy is unattractive is not a matter of the viewer's taste, it has been stated quite often (by Amy, complaining), and obviously wardrobe and make-up have been working to that spec.

For several seasons Sheldon's apparent asexuality was used to intensify the mockery of no-sex-appeal Amy - she was so idiotic she couldn't see S would never be interested in any woman. That went out when S finally cracked under her seige, of course. Another aspect of the stereotype was when deluded Amy imagined Leonard was in love with her - have you nver come across the ugly old maid who imagines men are in love with her in the humour of past centuries?

If you "enjoy" the Amy character, do you think the scene was acceptable where Amy, in the course of complaining about her inability to attract men, said: "It gets worse. I passed out at a frat party and woke up with more clothes on".

Is campus rape really funny?

 

 

Okay, there's a few things going on here. Let's start with the bits of your post I agree with. I think I mentioned that I disliked the push/pull of Seasons Six, Seven and the back half of Season Nine? And also that I understand calling that misogynistic? So you can assume that I hate any gags of the 'Sheldon says something that might be construed as leading to greater sexual or romantic intimacy, Amy gets excited, rug gets pulled out from under our feet, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA'. And I absolutely agree that the campus rape gag was heinous. I have, I assure you, ranted about that on this very forum. And am happy to rant about it again.

Where I'm slightly puzzled is your seeming insistence that this dynamic is made worse because of Amy's....frumpiness? Lack of conventional sex appeal? I can see that nasty stereotypes about women abound. I understand that popular culture all too often ties a woman's worth to her appeal as a sexual object. But I would have thought the 'HAHA, look at Amy's disappointed face' dynamic was infuriating and sexist, even if Amy looked like Audrey Hepburn. I would have thought it infuriating and sexist, because it was reducing a woman to the role of passive handmaid or nag. Which I absolutely accept are horrible stereotypes that should be drowned in a well. It is the reduction of a person to a singular dimension that I object to. 

Whereas you seem to object to the depiction of....sexual desire? Stridently expressed sexual desire? Unrequited sexual desire? Sexual desire harboured by a woman who is not conventionally attractive? Is it the fact that it seems unrequited for so long to which you object? That Amy is frumpy? Both? Neither?

At least from my perspective, a female character is allowed to pursue even calamitous and undignified romantic/sexual entanglements, if that is not the entirety of her characterisation. I objected to the reduction of dimensions of Amy's character for ....ooooh, far too much of the show's run. I couldn't enjoy her when almost all she represented to me was a sad sack waiting for her man to grow up and throw her a bone. For the simple reason that a one-dimensional character (male or female) grows old very very fast. 

But while she's allowed to be cerebral and snobbish and terrifyingly into all things mediaeval or whatever, I don't object to whatever level of libido she carts about, or whatever level of delusion she cherishes about her irresistibility. Or at least, I'd need more information before I object on the grounds of feminism.

Edited by wowbagger
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1 hour ago, Judith said:

Oh yeah, TPTB have allowed a supportive character to surpass the supposedly central female character of the show in screentime/plots/lines because she's TOTES ~unpleasant and ~unattractive. Not even Sheldon has the power to do that. People LIKE the character and WANT to see more of her, otherwise she wouldn't be here now.

She's 'different', not just on this show, but on damned near any show.  

You can bet they have done surveys/focus groups, etc. before shuffling the balance of the show.

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Doormat is funny. Easy to write, Lazy writing. Living in a dream world to get laughs. Amy should win awards every year. But yeah I can see clearly now. At the announcement when they officially confirm two more seasons. Amy will be made a main character that's why tptb could be slowly making shamy the main couple to coincide with the Sheldon Show. It make sense if the show is going to carry on as everything revolves around sheldon. Lenny demoted to secondary status and the butt of the jokes for Sheldon and shamy. Can't wait.

Lol. Lol.

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15 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

Doormat is funny. Easy to write, Lazy writing. Living in a dream world to get laughs. Amy should win awards every year. But yeah I can see clearly now. At the announcement when they officially confirm two more seasons. Amy will be made a main character that's why tptb could be slowly making shamy the main couple to coincide with the Sheldon Show. It make sense if the show is going to carry on as everything revolves around sheldon. Lenny demoted to secondary status and the butt of the jokes for Sheldon and shamy. Can't wait.

Lol. Lol.

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It seems to me the kid to play Sheldon will be too old by the time the show airs. If Lenny was getting "demoted" than neither would of signed for two more years. As to Mayim being a main character has her million dollar an episode been announced? It seems to me Mayim should be worshipping the ground JP stands on.

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Sarcastism . As for Johnny and Kaley. I hope it's not about $

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A lot of presumptions going around here. Nothing has been confirmed yet. If J and K sign an extension (very likely). It is unlikely they well be demoted to Kunal and Stuart level. While from a plot point of view they have not been a focus. Clearly Shamy have. I mean 99% of the plots this season Shamy have been the catalyst. But in a Way Lenny have returned to being forefront of the show. Most of the plots when at 4A. Lenny are front and centre. Without Lenny together. We have a fractured group. As for Mayim she is getting more screen time then Kaley. But unless she gets some kinda pay rise. Unlikely or just speculation. I doubt much we'll change their. We well just have to wait.

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A lot of presumptions going around here. Nothing has been confirmed yet. If J and K sign an extension (very likely). It is unlikely they well be demoted to Kunal and Stuart level. While from a plot point of view they have not been a focus. Clearly Shamy have. I mean 99% of the plots this season Shamy have been the catalyst. But in a Way Lenny have returned to being forefront of the show. Most of the plots when at 4A. Lenny are front and centre. Without Lenny together. We have a fractured group. As for Mayim she is getting more screen time then Kaley. But unless she gets some kinda pay rise. Unlikely or just speculation. I doubt much we'll change their. We well just have to wait.

Yeah in way but not enough. Just waiting for 10x22-1024, from the last 3 seasons, that's when lenny get some juice. Or the beginning of the season. Cliffhaggar and nothing, better than what we get the whole season. Longer time tho.

 

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3 hours ago, Judith said:

Oh yeah, TPTB have allowed a supportive character to surpass the supposedly central female character of the show in screentime/plots/lines because she's TOTES ~unpleasant and ~unattractive. Not even Sheldon has the power to do that. People LIKE the character and WANT to see more of her, otherwise she wouldn't be here now.

That is not necessarily true. Amy's receiving more screen time because lately the writers seem to be enamored with Sheldon and she's his partner. Even if beauty is in the eye of the beholder, Amy (not Mayim) as shown in TBBT is meant to be shown as less attractive than Penny. And from where do you think that people like the character and want to see more of her? I don't think there's any proof for or against that. We know the writers do. I personally like the Amy character (mostly) even if I don't like her as much as  I like Penny. It would be nice it they could make her a more fleshed out character and not just a Sheldon foil, because even of she's getting more screen time than Penny now-a-days, Penny is a full fledged out character and Amy's not.

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