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[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

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23 hours ago, rachelshamyfan said:

Because Leonard hates yoga

Leonard hates DOING yoga, Leonard loves what yoga does for penny :icon_razz:

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42 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

I

45 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

I don't see how Raj is causing trouble directly. Leonard reacting is causing trouble. From what I've read. Leonard needs to get over himself tbh.

If my wife had a sexual encounter with someone before we were married and that person is now sleeping in the room next to us, I would be freaking out. Leonard has every right to be annoyed.

I

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6 hours ago, Enrico Fermi said:

They're perfectly fine for a sitcom marriage and especially for a marriage on a CBS sitcom.  With extremely rare exceptions, sitcoms don't divorce their married couples or even give them serious marital strife.  What Leonard and Penny are going through now is nothing in the grand scheme of things and having Leonard feel left out as Penny and Raj bond in this episode is hardly something worth fretting about.  Sure it's unfair if you're a Lenny fan and they're constantly used for random sitcom fare while Shamy gets a rose-colored spotlight on their relationship each and every week, but Penny and Leonard are being used to service the show by helping involve all the characters who made the show great.

Sure.... how funny it is....

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Yeah, Leonard shouldn't be allowed to complain ever. His friend who almost slept with his wife (though single at the time) and loves lusting after his friends' partners in general is living with them and they're having just so much fun spending time together. It's all so lovely! Get a grip, Hofstadter! Who wants to live alone with their wife anyway, right?! 

And I don't want Leonard and Penny's sole purpose to be to service other characters.

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16 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

Yeah, Leonard shouldn't be allowed to complain ever. His friend who almost slept with his wife (though single at the time) and loves lusting after his friends' partners in general is living with them and they're having just so much fun spending time together. It's all so lovely! Get a grip, Hofstadter! Who wants to live alone with their wife anyway, right?! 

Remember the episode they recycled this plot from?   Howard and Bernadette were over reacting also, I guess.  Penny seems to fall into this pattern.   They show her spending more time with their roommate, or talking things over with their roommate, or supporting the roommate.  Instead of Penny spending time with, or talking to, or supporting her husband.  Penny needs to get a grip as to who she's married to.

 

16 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

And I don't want Leonard and Penny's sole purpose to be to service other characters.

I don't want this either, but it seems the only use the writers and TPTB have for Lenny is to either service other characters, or fight among themselves.  

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Posted (edited)

Let’s imagine this alternate reality for a moment:

Bernadette’s not married to Howard and she and Penny have been friends for years. Even though Bernadette knows that Penny has feelings for Leonard, she takes Leonard to some fancy dinner as a date and then brags about it to Penny and generally expresses that she finds Leonard physically desirable.

Years later Bernadette almost sleeps with an incredibly drunk Leonard fully knowing about the history Penny has with him and after Leonard expressed he made a mistake letting Penny go. 

Then Bernadette has an infatuation with Sheldon, boyfriend of her other good friend Amy. 

Again years later Bernadette needs a place to stay and Penny & Leonard generously offer her to stay with them. Then Penny finds Bernadette and Leonard doing fun guy stuff together. They’re playing video games and doing all the nerdy stuff that Leonard loves. 

Does Penny have a reason to be upset and/or worried?

Edited by No Regrets
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Posted (edited)

Maybe she would, but we don't because these people don't exist in the unpredictable world of reality.  I see Raj's presence as no more an enticement to Penny than Sheldon living there was.  His only threat to Lenny is in how disruptive having a roommate will be, but it ultimately shouldn't greatly impact them.  This is about Raj and not about Lenny, as hard as that may be to swallow.  Lenny draws the short straw here because 4B has no room and having him bunk at Casa de Wolowitz would only serve to deepen the show's problem with getting the group to interact.

Edited by Enrico Fermi
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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Enrico Fermi said:

Maybe she would, but we don't because these people don't exist in the unpredictable world of reality. 

sorry but this is just a cop out, basically your saying they can do anything they want with any character and it's fine because it's fiction, but the story and characters actions/interaction has to be believable. By your standard we could find out next week that penny is really a hermaphrodite from alpha centauri and it's just that no one ever noticed and this would be okay because.... Ya know fiction

Edited by JE7
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3 hours ago, Carlos said:

Really? I don't remember, but I'll take your word for it.

Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!! Another episode about Shamy being scientists, and Raj causing trouble for Lenny. What a crock of shit! Curse these dam writers. They've become fucking worthless. I fucking hate them.

Btw, all my animosity is towards the writers. Thank you soooooooooooooooo much for the mini taping report. Must have been hell typing it on a phone!!!

Maybe hate is a strong word but Leonard very definitely didn't want to do yoga with Penny in the season 8 premier

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10 minutes ago, JE7 said:

sorry but this is just a cop out, basically your saying they can do anything they want with any character and it's fine because it's fiction, but the story and characters actions/interaction has to be believable. By your standard we could find out next week that penny is really a hermaphrodite from alpha centauri and it's just that no one ever noticed and this would be okay because.... Ya know fiction

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:superstition:

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Posted (edited)

 

25 minutes ago, JE7 said:

sorry but this is just a cop out, basically your saying they can do anything they want with any character and it's fine be wise it's fiction, but the story and characters actions/interaction has to be believable. By this measure we could find out next week that penny is really a hermaphrodite from alpha centauri and it's just that no one ever noticed and this would be okay because.... Ya know fiction

No, I'm saying they won't do anything.  Any outcomes resulting from Raj moving in fall within a somewhat narrow spectrum of predictability.   Penny and Raj bonding over 'girly' pursuits is a highly predictable outcome.  Raj and Penny won't sleep together or anything so dramatic because this kind of show and these writers have obvious self-imposed limitations and won't go that far.    Penny the person would have reason to be somewhat anxious in the above scenario, but we shouldn't expect anything damaging.

Edited by Enrico Fermi
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1 minute ago, Enrico Fermi said:

No, I'm saying they won't do anything.  Any outcomes resulting from Raj moving in fall within a somewhat narrow spectrum of predictability.   Penny and Raj bonding over 'girly' pursuits is a highly predicable outcome.  Raj and Penny won't sleep together or anything so dramatic because this kind of show and these writers have obvious self-imposed limitations and won't go that far.    Penny the person would have reason to be somewhat anxious in the above scenario, but we shouldn't expect anything damaging.

That I agree with. I also don't think they'd have Penny do anything remotely close to sexual with Raj because there is no way they could recover from that. I posted my imaginary scenario because I wanted to emphasize that Leonard as a character would have valid reasons to be uncomfortable with Raj spending lots of time with Penny. 

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Posted (edited)

Boy imagine when the episode actually airs tommorro. :sarcastichand:. Look tptb are not doing a stellar job writing Lenny. Is it as good as 1-6? Obvioisiey not. Has this show become predictable? Yup. Is any of this believable? Partly. Are Lenny as bad. As stuff like Penny married to Zac. Leonard cheating? The day is young! But if nothing ever changes with Lenny. Then we'll it's a constant. Generally my review of Lenny has been 6/10. They seem happy to me. Shoot me! Are we ever going to get Bath Item, Maternal Capicatance, Monopolar Expedition, Recombination Hypothesis, Hologram Excitation etc.

No the shows best writing is behind them. All they have to do is convey a sitcom married couple. And they are doing that. If that's standing behind the kitchen, Hosting at 4A, heck even if that means Leonard's feeling left out by Penny and Raj bonding for one episode. If it becomes a regular thing. If not just a one off. The showrunners of this show have clearly given up on being creative. But they made the show successful. Look of this is the direction they choose to go with Lenny. I trust it. Like I have since 1.01. Raj and Penny have hanged out with Leonard Six years since the incident. So it's not really that's the problem. It's more this plot is uneccessary.

Edited by 3ku11

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Posted (edited)

My only problem with saying that Leonard would have valid reason to feel uneasy about it is that we get a very condensed snapshot of what informs these characters' views.  So while we may never forgive the finale to season 4, Leonard's view may be written from a perspective that has achieved total closure on that subject.  I haven't seen anything to indicate that he would have any concerns as far as Penny and Raj's loyalties go.  I don't remember Raj expressing any interest in Penny at any point after the beta test.

Maybe I can see it from the perspective that Leonard still feels like he doesn't deserve Penny.  Even so, he doesn't act as possessive as someone in that position ought to.  We could get into a whole big storyline where Leonard finally works out those issues here, if we wanted to, but Leonard's not the writers' shiny toy, is he?

Edited by Enrico Fermi

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12 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Boy imagine when the episode actually airs tommorro. :sarcastichand:. Look tptb are not doing a stellar job writing Lenny. Is it as good as 1-6? Obvioisiey not. Has this show become predictable? Yup. Is any of this believable? Partly. Are Lenny as bad. As stuff like Penny married to Zac. Leonard cheating? The day is young! But if nothing ever changes with Lenny. Then we'll it's a constant. Generally my review of Lenny has been 6/10. They seem happy to me. Shoot me! Are we ever going to get Bath Item, Maternal Capicatance, Monopolar Expedition, Recombination Hypothesis, Hologram Excitation etc.

No the shows best writing is behind them. All they have to do is convey a sitcom married couple. And they are doing that. If that's standing behind the kitchen, Hosting at 4A, heck even if that means Leonard's feeling left out by Penny and Raj bonding for one episode. If it becomes a regular thing. If not just a one off. The showrunners of this show have clearly given up on being creative. But they made the show successful. Look of this is the direction they choose to go with Lenny. I trust it. Like I have since 1.01. Raj and Penny have hanged out with Leonard Six years since the incident. So it's not really that's the problem. It's more this plot is uneccessary.

The writers can write better, they do for Shamy and to a lesser extant for Howardette. "One-off"? 2 months ago I would agree it's a possibility. But since January they have been fighting almost every episode. Some were better, IMO, like "The Alowance Evaporation" and "The Comic-Con Conundrun". The later had a fight but it was out of good will, caring about each others feelings. Hiding their feelings was a bad choice but it was clear that it stemmed out of love, it didn't feel like conflict coming out of the blue so I was fine with that. The Raj thing...I really don't like it. What bothers me most is that they use create tension amd unhapiness in Lenny and make them look bad again. It seems intentional. I don't know where they are going with it, I really hope things will take a turn and we will remember season 10 as just a stain (season stain? ><). But I'm having a hard time remaining optimistic. At this point I believe there is a chance that after the season ends we will deem it worse than season 8.

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52 minutes ago, rachelshamyfan said:

Maybe hate is a strong word but Leonard very definitely didn't want to do yoga with Penny in the season 8 premier

He would probably get injured knowing his history, so I don't blame him for not trying it or not being that interested in it.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Jonny said:

He would probably get injured knowing his history, so I don't blame him for not trying it or not being that interested in it.

And that's why he has no right to nebupset over Penny/Raj doing yoga or whatever. He's had every opportunity in the past. To take part in Penny's activities and hobbies. But never has.

38 minutes ago, bfm said:

The writers can write better, they do for Shamy and to a lesser extant for Howardette. "One-off"? 2 months ago I would agree it's a possibility. But since January they have been fighting almost every episode. Some were better, IMO, like "The Alowance Evaporation" and "The Comic-Con Conundrun". The later had a fight but it was out of good will, caring about each others feelings. Hiding their feelings was a bad choice but it was clear that it stemmed out of love, it didn't feel like conflict coming out of the blue so I was fine with that. The Raj thing...I really don't like it. What bothers me most is that they use create tension amd unhapiness in Lenny and make them look bad again. It seems intentional. I don't know where they are going with it, I really hope things will take a turn and we will remember season 10 as just a stain (season stain? ><). But I'm having a hard time remaining optimistic. At this point I believe there is a chance that after the season ends we will deem it worse than season 8.

But theirs no unhappiness with Lenny. I yet to see any evidence to support this. Season 8 was not even the train wreck. S9 was. S10 is not even bad. I guess I'm one of the few Lennies around here who's enjoyed them this season.

Edited by 3ku11

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5 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

And that's why he has no right to nebupset over Penny/Raj doing yoga or whatever. He's had every opportunity in the past. To take part in Penny's activities and hobbies. But never has.

Which activities and hobbies are we talking about besides yoga? Just curious.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

Which activities and hobbies are we talking about besides yoga? Just curious.

Well, in the show it's well established Raj likes chick-flick movies, body care, making jewelry, shopping; we actually don't know yet if the yoga was part of the episode or just Kaley and Kunal having fun....

Edited by mirs1

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3 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

Well, in the show it's well established Raj likes chick-flick movies, body care, making jewelry, shopping; we actually don't know yet if the yoga was part of the episode or just Kaley and Kunal having fun....

I'm not talking about Raj. I wanna know what hobbies and activities that Penny loves has Leonard refused to be a part of besides yoga. Cause he's gone to movies with her that he had no interest in, went shoe shopping with her even though he didn't like it, he went hiking with her, he went to a karaoke bar with her at 2am with her and her friends. That is all canon. 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

I'm not talking about Raj. I wanna know what hobbies and activities that Penny loves has Leonard refused to be a part of besides yoga. Cause he's gone to movies with her that he had no interest in, went shoe shopping with her even though he didn't like it, he went hiking with her, he went to a karaoke bar with her at 2am with her and her friends. That is all canon. 

Probably that might be the point, Leonard had no interest for those activities and did them for Penny's sake, which is a nice thing, of course; now Penny knows that (and that's canon too) and she might enjoy watching a girlish-movie with a person who actually wants to watch a girlish-movie.

Edited by mirs1
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1 minute ago, mirs1 said:

Probably that might be the point, Leonard had no interest for those activities and did them for Penny's sake, which is a nice thing, of course, now Penny knows that (and that's canon too) and she might enjoy being with a person who actually wants to watch a girlish-movie.

And I'm not blaming Penny for that. What I'm trying to say is that it's an understandable reaction for Leonard to feel left out. Again, if some girl lived with Leonard and Penny and bonded with Leonard because she also loves video games and science, Penny would feel left out, too, and that would be just as understandable. The TR doesn't say that Leonard blames either Raj or Penny, it just states he feels left out and eventually talks to both of them about it. 

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32 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

And I'm not blaming Penny for that. What I'm trying to say is that it's an understandable reaction for Leonard to feel left out. Again, if some girl lived with Leonard and Penny and bonded with Leonard because she also loves video games and science, Penny would feel left out, too, and that would be just as understandable. The TR doesn't say that Leonard blames either Raj or Penny, it just states he feels left out and eventually talks to both of them about it. 

I can imagine Penny feeling left out quite often in the past 10 years - heck, we had plenty of plots about how she can't join in with the scientific chatter or how she can't relate to the guys' nerdy interests and how that's been a huge source of her insecurity about her relationship with Leonard. There's been a lot of pressure on her to be more into that kind of stuff (be it in-universe by being surrounded by nerdy scientists or in real life from us fans, see the recent discussions about the CC episode) and what has been lost along the way is what does Penny actually enjoy?? As your earlier post indicated: We don't really know much about her interests, do we? Over the years they've been pushed into the background in favour of the show's geeky/nerdy pursuits. Her football friends have vanished into thin air, her acting career went down the drain and now she isn't even going out with the girls that much anymore.

So then, by all means let her have some fun doing girly activities with Raj* that she otherwise only would be doing with a reluctant Leonard. And I think for Leonard it might actually be nice to be reminded how she must have felt for ages when he was doing fun stuff with his friends all the time and have some empathy for Penny here. I hope the talk they have will be productive on that front.

*And of course I realise that for many fans it's not so much the issue that this happens but rather with whom because of that terrible misstep a few seasons ago.

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23 minutes ago, April said:

I can imagine Penny feeling left out quite often in the past 10 years - heck, we had plenty of plots about how she can't join in with the scientific chatter or how she can't relate to the guys' nerdy interests and how that's been a huge source of her insecurity about her relationship with Leonard. There's been a lot of pressure on her to be more into that kind of stuff (be it in-universe by being surrounded by nerdy scientists or in real life from us fans, see the recent discussions about the CC episode) and what has been lost along the way is what does Penny actually enjoy?? As your earlier post indicated: We don't really know much about her interests, do we? Over the years they've been pushed into the background in favour of the show's geeky/nerdy pursuits. Her football friends have vanished into thin air, her acting career went down the drain and now she isn't even going out with the girls that much anymore.

So then, by all means let her have some fun doing girly activities with Raj* that she otherwise only would be doing with a reluctant Leonard. And I think for Leonard it might actually be nice to be reminded how she must have felt for ages when he was doing fun stuff with his friends all the time and have some empathy for Penny here. I hope the talk they have will be productive on that front.

*And of course I realise that for many fans it's not so much the issue that this happens but rather with whom because of that terrible misstep a few seasons ago.

Here's the thing though: who stopped her from keeping in contact with her old friends? I've known most of my friends for 20+ years. If someone's important enough to you it's possible to stay in touch. If you say the writers have neglected Penny and her other friendships then I absolutely agree with you. They've neglected plenty of things over the years. But Penny as a character could have picked up the phone and contacted her old friends. It's not Leonard's fault that she chose not to do so. Is it Penny's fault that Leonard feels left out? Absolutely not. She can't change the fact that he's not into girly stuff and nor should she. But Leonard can also feel left out without begrudging her of having fun with Raj. You can feel something without meaning to blame someone for it. For example: my best friend was jealous because I was spending more time with another friend lately. That didn't mean she didn't want me to have other friends, she was just scared of playing second fiddle because she always had to play second fiddle as a kid. There's no one to blame here, neither Raj, Leonard or Penny. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Enrico Fermi said:

 

No, I'm saying they won't do anything.  Any outcomes resulting from Raj moving in fall within a somewhat narrow spectrum of predictability.   Penny and Raj bonding over 'girly' pursuits is a highly predictable outcome.  Raj and Penny won't sleep together or anything so dramatic because this kind of show and these writers have obvious self-imposed limitations and won't go that far.    Penny the person would have reason to be somewhat anxious in the above scenario, but we shouldn't expect anything damaging.

OK I get what your saying and will change my responses to the more appropriate....

Oh Enrico you Dewey eyed moon calf, these writers will do anything especially for a cliffhanger especially since they can basically forget about it by the second episode if the fans raise to much fuss

Edited by JE7
Trust TBTB they are omniscient and all powerfull.... Excuse me while I puke

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