Tensor

[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

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23 minutes ago, April said:

 

Of course you can assume a bell curve where they would only take Penny's single years into account. So you have Penny at age 14, 15, 16, 17, 22, and 23. Sheldon assumes half of a bell curve and using a standard distribution Penny's single years of 22/23 would account for 68% of the volume of suitors.

You could assume it, but that's not what he says.   His comment was:

Sheldon: My mistake. Now, assuming the left side of a bell curve peaking around the present, that would bring the total up to 193 men. Plus or minus eight men.  That includes the 9 months with Leonard.  

 

 

23 minutes ago, April said:

Sorry, 23 then. I forgot for a sec that S3 was the one where she wasn't single. My apologies.

 Sheldon assumes half of a bell curve and using a standard distribution Penny's single years of 22/23 would account for 68% of the volume of suitors.

It would be her 23/24 year, if it is, as he says, around the present, and it wouldn't be the peak, the peak would be in her 22-23 years.  

 

23 minutes ago, April said:

The crux of the whole thing is the initial assumption of Sheldon adjusting the number up to 132 cause yes, that seems just like a number he'd simply pull out of his arse. And yes, there is no way of knowing how much Penny really dated during her teens compared to now though it's not a complete unreasonable assumption that she would have dated less being a young teen still living with her parents as opposed to living alone with all the freedom in the world. But again, that wasn't my point anyway. In other words: the maths itself seems fine to me, the underlying assumptions not so much.

Of course the Bell Curve math works, when used properly.   This would be like trying to determine the gravitation potential, by using the Quantum Field Theory equations.  The QFT equations are good, the math works, just not in the case of trying to to compute the gravitational potential, because you can't renormalize spin 2 particles.  Just like you can't use the normal distribution function to determine how many men Penny dated, because her dating pattern is not a normal distribution.  

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The way I see it, Penny was very sexually active as a teen and between Kurt and Leonard (first time). After that she was much less active, perhaps only having sex with Zak and then only Leonard. Leonard doesn't seem to care about that. Sheldon feels the need to keep mentioning it like he feels the need to devalute almost everyone around him. If Penny wants to joke about it she has right to do so. However, I do get you @No Regrets -  it is disturbing that she doesn't seem to regret being "the other woman" but it is a sitcom. Also, she may be using humor as kind of a defense against guilt and shame.

Edited by bfm
typo
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Penny has made jokes constantly about her promiscious past. I am sure she doesen't care. Leonard has prob shown more slutty behavior then Penny since Season 5:sarcastichand:. Wheres his Bell Curve Sheldon? Hmmm.

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I sure hope we don't have 2 more seasons of espiodes like this last 1

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

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14 hours ago, BigBang15 said:

It's only been disproven by people who DON'T write/produce the show. The Big Bang (actual) has been "disproven" by quoting the Bible.

Please refer to Tensor's post on  the same page from where you quoted me. Thank you.

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 11:56 AM, Judith said:

That would be because Penny has the right to talk about her problems and dilemmas with her friends. It also goes without saying that Leonard's opinion isn't the only one that matters. He doesn't own Penny and there's nothing wrong with taking into consideration her friends' opinions, especially since Leonard's judgement would be very biased. He isn't the most objective fellow anyway.

Of course Penny has the right to talk about her problems with her friends. And while of course, Leonard does not own Penny, since he's her soul mate, his opinion should be the most important to her (and vice versa). Objectivity doesn't come into play at all because if we really think about it, what is objective about love?

Edited by Carlos
Clarification
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12 hours ago, snapepans said:

IMO, People on social media used those words, because the words sound like Mandarin.

The letters in the parentheses were used to form the whole words, in order to create some cheap jokes, but not from the writers.

I just wonder which Mandarin word is  corresponding to  "chain ciao", that's the point.  er,I fail to get the cheap jokes, blame me.        "but not from the writers"  sorry,I don't get it.

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5 hours ago, Tensor said:

Just like you can't use the normal distribution function to determine how many men Penny dated, because her dating pattern is not a normal distribution.

Good point. After all Penny lived with Kurt for four years before meeting Leonard. Sheldon at least knew she had been living with someone so he ought to have assumed she had been monogamous for a period of time. He could have asked.

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I never understood though how Penny lived with Kurt for Four years. Yet took so long to live with Leonard. Of course Penny had been monogamous for a periord of time, before 1.01. So it is not like she can be classed as a "slut". Anymore then Leonard can for Alice, Dr Plimpton, Joyce Kim, That Old Lady who gave the University a Grant e.t.c. I mean no one bat's an eye when a Younger Woman goes out with a Older Man. But God Forbid it is the other way round. Double Standards. 

And tbh the only monogamous relationship we've seen from Penny on screen, is Leonard. Before 2007. She was in one with Kurt for Four Years. But her sexual conquests that we did see Mike e.t.c. Could be no different then Leonard dating Stephanie e.t.c. Thing is they always protected and preserved Lenny. You never saw Penny in a serious/mongamous relationship, other then Leonard. So I just think the show choose to paint Penny as a "Slut", because it is more funnier. I mean in another Lorre Show. Two and a half men. Charlie Harper sleeps with a lot more woman, then Penny sleeps with men lol. Probably the entire district of California and Malibu. But he is treated as some kinda suave guy. Penny sleeps with what roughly 14 men she is a slut. 

Edited by 3ku11
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I don't get it why this discussion about Penny's previous sex life is happening now. She has been married to Leonard for two years and before that they were in a relationship for several years. 

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7 minutes ago, Lagernisse said:

I don't get it why this discussion about Penny's previous sex life is happening now. She has been married to Leonard for two years and before that they were in a relationship for several years. 

I think it is based on some of the references Sheldon has made to Penny this season. Just this latest episode. Sheldon made another Penny WAS Promiscious Joke/Reference. 

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10 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

I never understood though how Penny lived with Kurt for Four years. Yet took so long to live with Leonard. Of course Penny had been monogamous for a periord of time, before 1.01. So it is not like she can be classed as a "slut". Anymore then Leonard can for Alice, Dr Plimpton, Joyce Kim, That Old Lady who gave the University a Grant e.t.c. I mean no one bat's an eye when a Younger Woman goes out with a Older Man. But God Forbid it is the other way round. Double Standards. 

And tbh the only monogamous relationship we've seen from Penny on screen, is Leonard. Before 2007. She was in one with Kurt for Four Years. But her sexual conquests that we did see Mike e.t.c. Could be no different then Leonard dating Stephanie e.t.c. Thing is they always protected and preserved Lenny. You never saw Penny in a serious/mongamous relationship, other then Leonard. So I just think the show choose to paint Penny as a "Slut", because it is more funnier. I mean in another Lorre Show. Two and a half men. Charlie Harper sleeps with a lot more woman, then Penny sleeps with men lol. Probably the entire district of California and Malibu. But he is treated as some kinda suave guy. Penny sleeps with what roughly 14 men she is a slut. 

The bold part: I think she was young and that was also about leaving her parents' home and "growing up", not only Kurt. I also think we are lead to believe that when it came for Leonard her feelings were more intense and she felt that once she gave into them she will be with him forever (well I can't say anything about "forever" but at least up until now that was not disproven). As I see it, she was young and carefree when she was with Kurt, she lived in the moment and didn't think about the future. It was (is) very different with Leonard.

I believe the promiscuity accusations refer mostly to her teenage years before Kurt and to a lesser extent after him because they claim there have been more men than we saw. I think it is like keeping Sheldon's worst behavior off screen (e.g., in the North Pole expedition or most recently the behavior that made Leonard give him the train museum tickets). They didn't show it to not turn viewers too much against her (even though she had the right to do so but people tend to see it as bad behavior) but felt it is not as bad if you mention it and leave it open to interpretation. (I'm not saying she didn't have the right to have consensual sex as much as she wanted, just pondering the times referred to by these comments).

Edited by bfm
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Well thank god everybody ignored Penny's comment in 'Proton Displacement' about 'dating' a second grader when she was in pre-school...

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5 minutes ago, Radar said:

Well thank god everybody ignored Penny's comment in 'Proton Displacement' about 'dating' a second grader when she was in pre-school...

This one was very disturbing! It was presented as if it was out of her interest, for her own good but IMO such a little girl dating is indicative of very problematic messages from her surroundings. Did she learn that pretty girls should be all concerned with dating, and all other things be damned? That's very bad. It seems like she had very bad role models. Her sister comes to mind. Maybe her mom was also raised with these messages. Perhaps people around her also treated her in a way that made her feel like she was only good for her looks and should concentrate on boys. I'm not saying they will go there because it was treated as a one off joke.

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20 hours ago, No Regrets said:

I agree with you. I think I have more of a problem with the way she said it, like it was no big deal. Anyway, I still have to remind myself sometimes to not take comedy too seriously. I find that the more invested you are in a character, the harder it is. 

Additionally, I recall how they make Penny out to be too promiscuous: The episode where Raj asks the girls what kind of date he could take out Lucy. The girls give suggestions and Penny chimes in by saying "on a Disneyland ride they are shorter than you think so be sure to put your clothes back on as they take a picture at the end" or "being in a motel room with a 34 yr old guy named Luther on top of you"  Maybe these lines were meant to be humorous but I did not see the humor in them.

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11 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Additionally, I recall how they make Penny out to be too promiscuous: The episode where Raj asks the girls what kind of date he could take out Lucy. The girls give suggestions and Penny chimes in by saying "on a Disneyland ride they are shorter than you think so be sure to put your clothes back on as they take a picture at the end" or "being in a motel room with a 34 yr old guy named Luther on top of you"  Maybe these lines were meant to be humorous but I did not see the humor in them.

The @34 year old guy named Luther" really bothered me, as I think this was before Kurt and she may have been under age???  Comments?

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13 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

The @34 year old guy named Luther" really bothered me, as I think this was before Kurt and she may have been under age???  Comments?

Which like the dating in preschool is disturbing. Penny is pictured as having an OK childhood and having sex (sometimes unsafe) and dating because that's what she liked and it was all good an fun for her. Was it though? she was a child or a teen (still a child), not a grown up woman. When a child dates in preschool and ends up with a 34 year old man in her teens you gotta question said child's upbringing and/or treatment by her surroundings.  

Edited by bfm
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59 minutes ago, bfm said:

Which like the dating in preschool is disturbing. Penny is pictured as having an OK childhood and having sex (sometimes unsafe) and dating because that's what she liked and it was all good an fun for her. Was it though? she was a child or a teen (still a child), not a grown up woman. When a child dates in preschool and ends up with a 34 year old man in her teens you gotta question said child's upbringing and/or treatment by her surroundings.  

All these things are just one liners that has never been brought up again, so in my opinion I don't think we should take them to serious. 

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Obviously, some do these seriously.  

1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

The @34 year old guy named Luther" really bothered me, as I think this was before Kurt and she may have been under age???  Comments?

Well, if you want to analyze this as real life, then remember, we know even in season two, that she has "daddy issues" from her father wanting a boy and ignoring her after she started developing.   Her youthful indiscretions could be seen as trying to find a daddy figure.  Luther, an older guy, probably recognized this, and took advantage of her youth and naïveté, by promising her things he had no intention of delivering to her (come to think of it, Kurt also fits this, in some respects).

Notice her more egregious activity basically stopped after Leonard, even after they broke up.   

10 hours ago, Lagernisse said:

I don't get it why this discussion about Penny's previous sex life is happening now. She has been married to Leonard for two years and before that they were in a relationship for several years. 

Mostly because they are still referencing that behavior, and it still sticks in the craw of some of the members.  

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1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

The @34 year old guy named Luther" really bothered me, as I think this was before Kurt and she may have been under age???  Comments?

Yes, and if I remember she added after she said these comments " It's a joke,........ which sometimes is true"  or something to this effect.  This sounded like it was meant to soften the comment but it didn't do that for me

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4 hours ago, JE7 said:

The answer is very simple, the original pilots female lead was a heavy drinking, promiscuous user of men. The test audience's hated her and Lorrie was forced to not just recast the character but completely re-write her to be totally diffrent.

During the first few years he tried to if not morph the character of Penny into Katie then to at least graft as many of Katie's characteristics onto penny as he could get away with. Thus we SAW penny a sweet farm girl with a heart of gold but HEARD about penny the drunken, promiscuous girl who used sex to get things from men, interestingly we heard most of these type remarks from Sheldon. His charecter could get away with saying bad things about the nice girl because it was in his charecter to be "an ass" to others.

Time and repetition made the idea sink into the fabric of the show without him having to actually show it which IMO would have turned the audience off Penny and therefore the show. the result is this Janus version of penny we ended up with

I really think you nailed it, Lorre couldn't let go of idea of Katie so we got some of Katie put into Penny.  Of course they went too far sometimes, like the drinking, the number of guys she was with suppose to be with but we never saw and he really pushed it with her one night stand with Raj.

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14 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

I never understood though how Penny lived with Kurt for Four years. Yet took so long to live with Leonard.

One could speculate that

  1. Penny was afraid to make the same mistake and/or
  2. Penny really preferred enormous men like Kurt and had never really considered someone like Leonard before. It was a big adjustment for her.
  3. Penny has always feared that Leonard would bolt once he started to get to know her family.
  4. We only ever got to see Leonard's deliberations to Penny believing in psychics. Never Penny's deliberations to Leonard not believing in them. On screen she only reacted to him being a "jerk" about it. The divide here could be deeper than we know.
  5. The worst thing I fear though though is that hidden reason amounting to the writers yet again rewriting history.This is the thing that pisses everyone off the most. No point in speculating. Who could have imagined Penny was married to Zack? 
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7 hours ago, JE7 said:

The answer is very simple, the original pilots female lead was a heavy drinking, promiscuous user of men. The test audience's hated her and Lorrie was forced to not just recast the character but completely re-write her to be totally diffrent.

During the first few years he tried to if not morph the character of Penny into Katie then to at least graft as many of Katie's characteristics onto penny as he could get away with. Thus we SAW penny a sweet farm girl with a heart of gold but HEARD about penny the drunken, promiscuous girl who used sex to get things from men, interestingly we heard most of these type remarks from Sheldon. His charecter could get away with saying bad things about the nice girl because it was in his charecter to be "an ass" to others.

Time and repetition made the idea sink into the fabric of the show without him having to actually show it which IMO would have turned the audience off Penny and therefore the show. the result is this Janus version of penny we ended up with

It sounds plausible. 

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5 hours ago, Lagernisse said:

All these things are just one liners that has never been brought up again, so in my opinion I don't think we should take them to serious. 

Yes, but sometimes they go to far, at least for me, with these one liners. They could have her say she was too busy fantasizing about the dreamy second grader or something along these lines. That does not mean I didn't laugh at these, just that their implications are too troubling for me.

Besides, there have been lots of one liners about Leonard's childhood. I laughed at those. But does that mean his childhood was OK? Or not terrible? 

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20 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

I never understood though how Penny lived with Kurt for Four years. Yet took so long to live with Leonard. 

I think the answer is very simple, even though I could b wrong because this is just speculation on my part: I believe it took Penny so long to live with Leonard because of how badly she had been burnt with Kurt. I also believe that's the root of her commitment problems.

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