Tensor

[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bfm said:

I agree with you on some parts and disagree in others (e.g., I think they made it clear that the engagement wasn't about her career dissatifaction and is was important for Leonard to make that clear. Also, in the past she had some acting stuff that didn't spark focus on Leonard, but that was long time ago...).

I do agree that it should have been more focused on Penny. I think the major problem, which our knowledge of makes us look at it this way, is that it doesn't have a continuation, at least not this season. I think it would have been so much better if in the end of the episode Penny decided to start searching for a new job, figuring what she wants before and in the process, with Leonard's help and support (we have seen he has a lot of these to give her). Then have them doing that in the following episodes. But no, they chose to jusy leave it like they always do. Why? Well my guess is because they simply don't care. They don't care about neither Penny nor Leonard nor Lenny. They decided to give them an episode close to the finale, IMO to pay what they percieve as mandatory fee. And since that is the little time they were willing to dedicate to them they took it to do something with their relationship, to show them communicating because they have gone too far with the recurrent fighting and thought that that would make things seem a little better to the viewers. IMO, they didn't really mean or care about doing something for Penny, at least not now (and I'm not holding my breath for next year, it has been too long with nothing).

I have a lot of sympathy with this. And indeed my disgruntlement is in large part because I know there will be no follow-through. But even in the context of the episode, nobody told Leonard - and Leonard didn't say himself - that he was making Penny's problems about himself. Even if the episode had ended with Penny being offered another role at her existing company that was more to her liking, the central problem remains that the show seems to think that the only, or most, interesting thing about Penny's career is what it means for Leonard or Lenny. And - um - @veejay, do you have that .gif of Penny saying '....wow'?

Edited by wowbagger
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's interesting about the Lenny storyline was IMO you could ask 100 people who side your on and I think it would be split. When Penny talked to Bernadette she basically took Leonard's POV and when Leonard talked to Howard( raj was useless) he took Penny's POV.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

17 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

....And - um - @veejay, do you have that .gif of Penny saying '....wow'?

Of course, LOL

wow.gif.e7e8c9e9245d9b6f6b7f597d5f36282d.gif

7 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Both Howard and Raj were useless in that discussion with Leonard, I thought. Howard at least pointed out that it was a bit restrictive of Leonard to have problems with Penny working with exes.... followed by him slut-shaming Penny. Nice, Howie. Oh, and the show alkie-shamed Penny as well, with her ('well, it's a bar, so....' remark).

Ugh. Fuck you sideways, show. Poor Penny.

....

You see where that leads to? Into a madhouse called writers-room. :shy:

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, veejay said:

 

Of course, LOL

wow.gif.e7e8c9e9245d9b6f6b7f597d5f36282d.gif

 

In an uncertain world, it's good to know there's still something to rely on. Dankeschon, v!

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

 

Though, on a shallow note, has she worn her hair in a ponytail like that before? It suited her.

 

I loved Penny's hair in a ponytail :)

Edited by serena_1995
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@wowbagger agreed with your grievances about the Penny/Lenny plot. I think it's always been this way with her. From the very beginning of the show, she might have been one of the big 3 along with Leonard but her experiences have always been about Leonard and her relationship with him. (I'm sure there are exceptions too). It's the same thing with Amy but she's a supporting character tied to a main character (more like the main character) so with her it's expected.

I think that what I hated the most about the Lenny storyline was Howard and Bernie taking Leonard's side (especially Bernie). It gave me boat kiss justification parade flashbacks. Even worse, Raj taking Penny's side was treated as a joke since at the end he changed his tune and agreed with Leonard. Why does it always have to be about backing up Leonard's crap?

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Judith said:

@wowbagger agreed with your grievances about the Penny/Lenny plot. I think it's always been this way with her. From the very beginning of the show, she might have been one of the big 3 along with Leonard but her experiences have always been about Leonard and her relationship with him. (I'm sure there are exceptions too). It's the same thing with Amy but she's a supporting character tied to a main character (more like the main character) so with her it's expected.

I think that what I hated the most about the Lenny storyline was Howard and Bernie taking Leonard's side (especially Bernie). It gave me boat kiss justification parade flashbacks. Even worse, Raj taking Penny's side was treated as a joke since at the end he changed his tune and agreed with Leonard. Why does it always have to be about backing up Leonard's crap?

Yeah, seriously. And speaking of the boat kiss....hey, Leonard? You know your little tonsil-hockey friend? Whom you see at work? Has your wife ever asked you to quit your job because of that? No? Then shut your yap.

Okay, to be fair, I do realise that Leonard came to the right decision, and everyone is entitled to their feelings even if they are irrational or unfair. But what I object to is the show's implicit presumption that Leonard has a perfectly reasonable feeling, but then overcomes it because he is such a selfless guy (and would like to be rewarded with sex for his selflessness please). As opposed to, ooooh I don't know, Leonard having a human, understandable but - let's face it - somewhat ignoble reaction, and working through it to come to the civilised adult conclusion. For which, sure, he deserves cookies for striving with himself. But oh, I wish the show had acknowledged that the guy was making the journey from 'unsupportive and selfish' to 'effortfully and begrudgingly correct', as opposed to 'from perfectly right to selfless and saintly'. 

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Judith said:@wowbagger

I think that what I hated the most about the Lenny storyline was Howard and Bernie taking Leonard's side (especially Bernie). It gave me boat kiss justification parade flashbacks. Even worse, Raj taking Penny's side was treated as a joke since at the end he changed his tune and agreed with Leonard. Why does it always have to be about backing up Leonard's crap?

I disagree with the Bernie part. All she said was basically that Leonard's always been jealous. It wasn't really taking Leonard's side. In the case of Howard he was originally on Penny's side but his agreeing with Leonard was more two against 1. Raj was useless  as usual.

Maybe i have been missing something in the last ten years of the show but IMO backing up crap fits more with Sheldon than Leonard.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Yeah, seriously. And speaking of the boat kiss....hey, Leonard? You know your little tonsil-hockey friend? Whom you see at work? Has your wife ever asked you to quit your job because of that? No? Then shut your yap.

Okay, to be fair, I do realise that Leonard came to the right decision, and everyone is entitled to their feelings even if they are irrational or unfair. But what I object to is the show's implicit presumption that Leonard has a perfectly reasonable feeling, but then overcomes it because he is such a selfless guy (and would like to be rewarded with sex for his selflessness please). As opposed to, ooooh I don't know, Leonard having a human, understandable but - let's face it - somewhat ignoble reaction, and working through it to come to the civilised adult conclusion. For which, sure, he deserves cookies for striving with himself. But oh, I wish the show had acknowledged that the guy was making the journey from 'unsupportive and selfish' to 'effortfully and begrudgingly correct', as opposed to 'from perfectly right to selfless and saintly'. 

The boat  kiss has been basically ignored since it happened. Quite frankly it got tossed to the side because of the Shamy break up. I agree with what your saying about it and IMO more should been made of it. It could of been IMO quite a story if he kissed Alex on the boat instead of an unknown Mandy. The writers have treated the story liked it never happened.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, wowbagger said:

I have a lot of sympathy with this. And indeed my disgruntlement is in large part because I know there will be no follow-through. But even in the context of the episode, nobody told Leonard - and Leonard didn't say himself - that he was making Penny's problems about himself. Even if the episode had ended with Penny being offered another role at her existing company that was more to her liking, the central problem remains that the show seems to think that the only, or most, interesting thing about Penny's career is what it means for Leonard or Lenny. And - um - @veejay, do you have that .gif of Penny saying '....wow'?

Actually Leonard said he feels he is being (/doesn't want to be, I don't remember the exact words) selfish and holding her back, isn't that recognizing it should not be about him?

54 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Yeah, seriously. And speaking of the boat kiss....hey, Leonard? You know your little tonsil-hockey friend? Whom you see at work? Has your wife ever asked you to quit your job because of that? No? Then shut your yap.

Okay, to be fair, I do realise that Leonard came to the right decision, and everyone is entitled to their feelings even if they are irrational or unfair. But what I object to is the show's implicit presumption that Leonard has a perfectly reasonable feeling, but then overcomes it because he is such a selfless guy (and would like to be rewarded with sex for his selflessness please). As opposed to, ooooh I don't know, Leonard having a human, understandable but - let's face it - somewhat ignoble reaction, and working through it to come to the civilised adult conclusion. For which, sure, he deserves cookies for striving with himself. But oh, I wish the show had acknowledged that the guy was making the journey from 'unsupportive and selfish' to 'effortfully and begrudgingly correct', as opposed to 'from perfectly right to selfless and saintly'. 

Maybe the problem is they didn't present it in a thoughtful way, like having Bernadette say working for an ex can be problematic but not in this case but Leonard's feelings are understandable given his self-image problems. It should have been Leonard is not correct but understandable and he is making an effort to overcome his weaknesses for his wife. 

And I don't think the notorious boat kiss is a parallel here. He didn't care about Mandy, for him it was a drunk mistake and seeing her meant nothing, while Zack is the guy Penny replaced him with and even married, even though she didn't really know it. For us it is clear Penny would not dump Leonard for Zack (with TPTB she might dump him but not for Zack) but it is not that way to Leonard. I do agree though that he should have felt more uncomfortable with being uncomfortable about it (great sentence huh?) considering Mandy but I don't expect the writers to consider these things, nowadays I think we are lucky if they remember Lenny intiating their relaionship (they don't seem to remember their first date).

1 hour ago, Judith said:

@wowbagger agreed with your grievances about the Penny/Lenny plot. I think it's always been this way with her. From the very beginning of the show, she might have been one of the big 3 along with Leonard but her experiences have always been about Leonard and her relationship with him. (I'm sure there are exceptions too). It's the same thing with Amy but she's a supporting character tied to a main character (more like the main character) so with her it's expected.

I think that what I hated the most about the Lenny storyline was Howard and Bernie taking Leonard's side (especially Bernie). It gave me boat kiss justification parade flashbacks. Even worse, Raj taking Penny's side was treated as a joke since at the end he changed his tune and agreed with Leonard. Why does it always have to be about backing up Leonard's crap?

I agree. I think this was especially true for the first season, where I felt she didn't have much of a character. We later got to see more and more of her side and she became a character. But since they got engaged both Leonard and Penny are becoming non-characters, just background. It might be worse for Penny but both, IMO, have their experiences being more and more about Sheldon or about their relationship. Who are they as people? If we ask the writers they might burst laughing in our faces.

Edited by bfm
dropped an "it" but it forgave me and came back :)
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, veejay said:

n_00414.gif.8da5a6d63b6bb3c81d30145a01c7fd4e.gif

I wouldn't count on that. :shy:

well then....

notkillbatman.gif.f21d9c5e531fcd248a2de9bf5303ed85.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 9:34 AM, Jedichic98 said:

Maybe it's just me, but I think breasts are incredibly over sexualized. Oh wow! Pockets of fat covering mammary glands! hubba hubba!

I think it's just you, and I think I speak for most men in the world when I say that nice breasts are incredibly attractive and stimulating to look at, touch, etc.etc. (I'm just stopping there because it is not appropriate for this forum for me to continue elaborating), in much the same way other parts of both the male and female anatomy are to their counterparts. It is not the anatomical composition that is so stimulating, but what each part (and the whole) represents to each one of us. Beauty maybe in the eye of the beholder, but so is attraction.

Edited by Carlos
Spelling
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Kev0821 said:

 

looking forward to that.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just saw the preview of episode 10x23.

Cool! Sheldon's having another dig at Leonard. They are real friends. :yes:

Amy: I was offered a fellowship at Princeton.

Sheldon: Where Leonard got his PhD. So it may have gone downhill.

That's soooo funny! :icon_rolleyes:

And in addition Sheldon has his mandatory dig at Lenny in the season finale. Yay! Something to look forward to. :rolleyes:

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, luminous said:

Just saw the preview of episode 10x23.

Cool! Sheldon's having another dig at Leonard. They are real friends. :yes:

Amy: I was offered a fellowship at Princeton.

Sheldon: Where Leonard got his PhD. So it may have gone downhill.

That's soooo funny! :icon_rolleyes:

And in addition Sheldon has his mandatory dig at Lenny in the season finale. Yay! Something to look forward to. :rolleyes:

Doesn't bother me that much when I think about it as a defense, meaning he devaluates Leonard and others because at some level he understands he has difficulties and is dependant on others. Not that it justify it, not at all, just a recommendation on a way that may help feeling less annoyed by it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

Yeah, seriously. And speaking of the boat kiss....hey, Leonard? You know your little tonsil-hockey friend? Whom you see at work? Has your wife ever asked you to quit your job because of that? No? Then shut your yap.

 

How do you equate a (drunken, possibly single) kiss to someone Penny  was banging on and off for a while?

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BigBang15 said:

How do you equate a (drunken, possibly single) kiss to someone Penny  was banging on and off for a while?

Easy. Lenny was a couple when he kissed Mandy. what Penny was doing while she was single is not a comparison.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Judith said:

I think Sheldon's digs would be received better if the Lenny relationship/representation in the show were in a better state. That's why I, for example, don't get upset when characters say things like Amy is ruining her life by being in a relationship with Sheldon. I watch Shamy and know that it's not true.

I'm not upset either, because I know too, that Sheldon's digs at Lenny are not true. They are just annoying. All those digs and insults, no matter who says them, are annoying for me. They are getting old IMO.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Judith said:

Everyone and their relationships in the show receive digs from other characters. Leonard has been throwing digs at Sheldon about Amy drugging him cause that would be the only explanation for him trying to make an effort and be kind to Raj moving in his old room, right? Cruel dig and much worse than Sheldon's. The Shamy relationship has also received digs from the other guys in this season - not even gonna bother mentioning previous ones. So, everyone gets their fair share of insulting each other.

I think Sheldon's digs would be received better if the Lenny relationship/representation in the show were in a better state. That's why I, for example, don't get upset when characters say things like Amy is ruining her life by being in a relationship with Sheldon. I watch Shamy and know that it's not true.

Ummm...should we really make it a competition? For years now Sheldon has been calling Leonard a stupid looser who is only good for servicing him... They all insult each other, sometimes going too far. Let's not make it a competition.

Edited by bfm
rephrasing, typo
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, luminous said:

I'm not upset either, because I know too, that Sheldon's digs at Lenny are not true. They are just annoying. All those digs and insults, no matter who says them, are annoying for me. They are getting old IMO.

No matter who? All I see is Sheldon this, Sheldon that, but OK.

43 minutes ago, bfm said:

Ummm...should we really make it a competition? For years nwow Sheldon has been calling Leonard a stupid looser who is only good for servicing him... They all insult each other, sometimes going too far. Let's not make it a competition.

Where did I make this a competition? I simply said that everyone has insulted everyone at some point, so it's not like Sheldon is this big bad person who insults poor, innocent Leonard. Also, me saying that Leonard's drugging digs are worse than Sheldon's education digs isn't me making it a competition. It's stating an opinion. Saying a university must be bad because a certain someone got their Phd there isn't near as bad as saying that someone is acting polite only because they were drugged. Comparison is not the same as competition. Also, if I were to use your logic, then you're the one making it a competition, by mentioning that Sheldon has been insulting Leonard for years as if it has anything to do with me comparing Leonard's drugging dig and Sheldon's phd one.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now