Tensor

[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Tensor said:

But see, that is the whole point.  Don Knotts had the quirky weird character(Barney Fife), Andy Griffith was the calm center of the storm.  Much like Mayim, Don Knotts got all the awards.  Griffith's character wasn't strange enough for any nominations.  But overall, he had a much better career than Knotts.  

I understand your point about quirky characters and nominations as it is what is overall settled in show business.  But my point was about who I think is more talented and why. I usually dont look at actors prizes or nominations for I stand my opinion about their skills. And I am also fan of a simple character who doesnt get prizes as much the actor/actress does their job really in an outstanding way.

So imo when a actor is bad, a quirky character doesn't save them; when a actor is good even a simple character and a simple role make them shine. Maybe it's me as I tend to make  my opinions in a way very simple without much influence from what is setled from outside . :)

Edited by spidergirl
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Can anyone who attended the taping of 10.24 comment on whether or not it is explained how the painting resurfaced in 4B? Perhaps Penny gave it to Sheldon to remind him of Amy, while she's away... If it was the writers' aim to have Penny see the painting and comment as she did, the conversation could've just as easily taken place in 4A, since the painting was last hung there.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tensor said:

The difference is you're saying that's all Kaley can do, I'm saying the writing limits her to doing nothing but that.  They are not the same point.  

Kelsey Grammar was nominated 13 times for the same character, and has never been nominated for anything else.  Is it the actor, or is it the character?  I don't need comforting, the history of the Emmys is littered with winners of multiple awards, who only won, or were even nominated for a usually quirky or memorable character.  

That's because that is all she can bring to the table. She's had ten years and everything going for her for a long time (especially season six which you Lennies consider to be the best season for them) to prove otherwise but yet she hasn't. If she had such brilliant comedic skills as you guys like to claim the fact that she has been the lone female protagonist of such a successful show for so many years would have won her some critical acclaim by now. Basically it's her acting that hasn't won her anything not that her character's writing has been limiting her, for what, ten years? Please. 

I also couldn't care less who Kelsey Grammar is, she could have very well been good only in that role and I'm certainly not going to take your word for anything that you have to sa y about her.

Sure, also the history of Emmy awards is full of people who were nominated and/or won because they had talent and deserved to be, and Mayim is one of them while Kaley isn't.

Edited by Tensor
Removed comment directed at another member.
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25 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

I understand your point about quirky characters and nominations as it is what is overall settled in show business.  But my point was about who I think is more talented and why. I usually dont look at actors prizes or nominations for I stand my opinion about their skills. And I am also fan of a simple character who doesnt get prizes as much the actor/actress does their job really in an outstanding way.

So imo when a actor is bad, a quirky character doesn't save them; when a actor is good even a simple character and a simple role make them shine. Maybe it's me as I tend to make  my opinions in a way very simple without much influence from what is setled from outside . :)

I take a simple approach to this. One is who gets paid more. Another is what were they doing before the show. Another is negative perception. To me that all adds to a win for Kaley. Money has been discussed in the past. Kaley was acting right before. Mayim went to school and basically had given up acting. The show was the lotto for Mayim. Seems if she was that  great an actress she wouldnt have quit. Kaley has the perception she's pretty she can't act. Mayim is average thus she must be a great actress. I laughed and laughed at the comment that kaley only makes faces. Isn't that all that Mayim does?

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18 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

I understand your point about quirky characters and nominations as it is what is overall settled in show business.  But my point was about who I think is more talented and why. I usually dont look at actors prizes or nominations for I stand my opinion about their skills. And I am also fan of a simple character who doesnt get prizes as much the actor/actress does their job really in an outstanding way.

I have no problem with it being your opinion.  But, it was being argued that Mayim was a better actress, based on her Emmy nominations.  If Mayim works better for you, that's great, and not something I can argue, as your ideas on what you enjoy, isn't probably the same as what I enjoy.  :shy:

18 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

So imo when a actor is bad, a quirky character doesn't save them; when a actor is good even a simple character and a simple role make them shine. 

You're right, a quirky character can't save a bad actor, but a quirky character can make even an average actor shine.   I'm an actor (I consider myself average) but it is the writing and the character that make something memorable.  

I was a lead in one show, and was basically the calm, collected one,  while all the other characters went nuts around me.  Not too many remembered me for that role, even though I was on stage for the entire show.  

Last September, I had a character who had wild hair, an eye patch, an eye that popped out occasionally, a huge mustache and ran a "Wig and Bait" shop.  Everyone remembered me for that role, even though I was on stage for less than fifteen minutes, in a two hour show.  

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

I take a simple approach to this. One is who gets paid more. Another is what were they doing before the show. Another is negative perception. To me that all adds to a win for Kaley. Money has been discussed in the past. Kaley was acting right before. Mayim went to school and basically had given up acting. The show was the lotto for Mayim. Seems if she was that  great an actress she wouldnt have quit. Kaley has the perception she's pretty she can't act. Mayim is average thus she must be a great actress. I laughed and laughed at the comment that kaley only makes faces. Isn't that all that Mayim does?

I did not say the makes faces part so I would not discuss it with you. When I  don't like a specific actress I won't  try the others dont like  her either. Because I could not like her but it would not mean she had only flaws. It would be not elegant from my part.

 And Mayim did not quite on acting. She did other things like getting her phd in Neurobiology  and built a family as she was married and had two children. Which is remarkable after all of that she  could get back her track to acting. No, it is not something an average person could anchieve.

Edited by spidergirl
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Posted (edited)

Mayim doesent have the charisma that Kaley has on screen. And besides I Think it is a disservice to Kaley to say all she does is making funny faces. And Mayim does not? Considering the amount of screen time she gets. It is all the level of writing end of the day. Kaley prob has the best comedic timing on tv. I remember the Adhesive Duck ER Scene. No one imo to this day on this show, has deleivered a better comedic performance. Jim in Bath Item obviousley.

Arguing Mayim is the better actress technically, does not make her one. And if it wasen't for the original cast, she woulden't even be relevant. So remember that huh. She diddn't make this show a big hit. 

Edited by 3ku11
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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Tensor said:

I have no problem with it being your opinion.  But, it was being argued that Mayim was a better actress, based on her Emmy nominations.  If Mayim works better for you, that's great, and not something I can argue, as your ideas on what you enjoy, isn't probably the same as what I enjoy.  :shy:

 

Fairy enough. It is always nice  to talk to you :)

Edited by spidergirl
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1 hour ago, Tensor said:

But see, that is the whole point.  Don Knotts had the quirky weird character(Barney Fife), Andy Griffith was the calm center of the storm.  Much like Mayim, Don Knotts got all the awards.  Griffith's character wasn't strange enough for any nominations.  But overall, he had a much better career than Knotts.  

But Mayim is the calm [Andy G] character next to Parson's weirdness [Knotts].

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17 minutes ago, Judith said:

If she had such brilliant comedic skills as you guys like to claim the fact that she has been the lone female protagonist of such a successful show for so many years would have won her some critical acclaim by now.

Actually, it's Chuck Lorre, Mark Cendrowski and comments from the writers who say she has brilliant comedic skills and timing.  I'm just agreeing with the guys that hired her and work with her.  

 

17 minutes ago, Judith said:

Basically it's her acting that hasn't won her anything not that her character's writing has been limiting her, for what, ten years? Please. 

Not just the writing, the character.   Penny isn't a character that would normally get any kind of nominations.   If Mayim is such a great actor, where are all her other nominations?   She's only gotten nominations for this character.   So, it appears that it's the character that got her the nominations, not her acting.  If her acting was what got her the nominations, she would have other nominations.   She doesn't.

 

17 minutes ago, Judith said:

I also couldn't care less who Kelsey Grammar is, she could have very well been good only in that role and I'm certainly not going to take your word for anything that you have to sa y about her.

Yes, Kelsey Grammar was only nominated for that one role, just like...Mayim.  You don't have to take my word for anything he did.  You can look it up yourself.   He played the same character, on two different shows, for 20 years (10 on Cheers, 10 on Frasier).  But, again, that was his only nominations (and one voice over nomination, for playing his Frasier character on the Simpsons.)  

 

 

7 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

But Mayim is the calm [Andy G] character next to Parson's weirdness [Knotts].

She doesn't run against Parsons.  Compare her to the other women on the show.  She's the quirky one.  

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Lol so Kaley is not a good actor because her lack of critical acclaim or commerical claim? Yeah because Mayim is raking them in. Hell not even Jim wins these days. i stand by that Kaley has the best comedic timing on tv. And her performane has jusified that the past decade. I don't need awards to proove that. Considering mataralistically her character is very limited. And Kaley has done a very good job in portraying the realistic struggles of an actor. 

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I always felt Kaley could pull off what ever the writers happened to give her to do. Jim too. I don't really know but there have been times when I thought johnny can make lots of things work but sometimes he looks a bit like he his loosing the Leonard character with some of the lines and more serious moods. Perhaps it is hard to be Leonard and serious? 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tensor said:

 

Actually, it's Chuck Lorre, Mark Cendrowski and comments from the writers who say she has brilliant comedic skills and timing.  I'm just agreeing with the guys that hired her and work with her.  

 

Not just the writing, the character.   Penny isn't a character that would normally get any kind of nominations.   If Mayim is such a great actor, where are all her other nominations?   She's only gotten nominations for this character.   So, it appears that it's the character that got her the nominations, not her acting.  If her acting was what got her the nominations, she would have other nominations.   She doesn't.

 

Yes, Kelsey Grammar was only nominated for that one role, just like...Mayim.  You don't have to take my word for anything he did.  You can look it up yourself.   He played the same character, on two different shows, for 20 years (10 on Cheers, 10 on Frasier).  But, again, that was his only nominations (and one voice over nomination, for playing his Frasier character on the Simpsons.)  

 

 

She doesn't run against Parsons.  Compare her to the other women on the show.  She's the quirky one.  

Of course they'll say these things, I wouldn't expect them to say anything less. Also these guys that you agree with have put her and Johnny in the background and boosted Jim and Mayim so you must agree with what they're doing in that area too, since you use their words as proof of Kaley's acting ability.

That isn't an excuse for Kaley not getting any nominations since people have been nominated and even won awards in the past for playing bland characters. It's even happened with the Oscars. Also the quirkiness/lack of of Amy or Penny doesn't invalidate Mayim's nominations cause then they might as well stop handing out awards.

Or it's that she did her best acting with Amy's role. You're assuming that her lack of Emmy nominations in other roles means that she got this one because of the quirkiness of the character which is just your claim. It's the most major role she's had since Blossom and she's been great in it, so there's no reason to make up any other reasons for her noms. Kaley has had even more time than Mayim on the show and especially for her many scenes with Sheldon in the first seasons she could have been nominated (comedy duo and all that) and yet she wasn't. Also, I can use a similar logic for Kaley's lack of nominations and reach the conclusion that she must suck as an actress (eta: or that she wasn't good enough).

And like I said above, the fact that Mayim or Kelsey got nominated only for one role doesn't invalidate the value of their acting in that particular role and neither does it mean that it was the role that gave them the noms. Playing a quirky character doesn't mean you'll be good at it.

I've already compared Kaley's acting, not her role, to the other women's acting (that wasn't a freudian slip I just got confused repeating the same words constantly) and Mayim comes on top. I'll say it again: playing a quirky character doesn't automatically mean you'll be good at it. You need talent to act well, the role won't do that for you and playing a straight type of character doesn't mean you can't excel at it or that you won't get nominations/awards if you deserve it.

You can respond but I won't answer.

Edited by Judith
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2 minutes ago, Judith said:

Of course they'll say these things, I wouldn't expect them to say anything less. Also these guys that you agree with have put her and Johnny in the background and boosted Jim and Mayim so you must agree with what they're doing in that area too, since you use their words as proof of Kaley's acting ability.

Whether they write for Kaley, and what they believe her skill set is are two different things.   My feeling is that they've boosted Jim, and Mayim has seen an increase in screen time, because she plays Sheldon's girlfriend. 

 

2 minutes ago, Judith said:

That isn't an excuse for Kaley not getting any nominations since people have been nominated and even won awards in the past for playing bland characters. It's even happened with the Oscars. Also the quirkiness/lack of of Amy or Penny doesn't invalidate Mayim's nominations cause then they might as well stop handing out awards.

Which bland characters won Emmys for supporting actress?  I never said it invalidates her nomination, I said, because of the quirkiness, it makes her character more memorable, and that is the reason for the nomination.   

2 minutes ago, Judith said:

Or it's that she did her best acting with Amy's role. You're assuming that her lack of Emmy nominations in other roles means that she got this one because of the quirkiness of the character which is just your claim. It's the most major role she's had since Blossom and she's been great in it, so there's no reason to make up any other reasons for her noms. Kaley has had even more time than Mayim on the show and especially for her many scenes with Sheldon in the first seasons she coukd have been nominated (comedy duo and all that) and yet she wasn't. Also, I can use a similar logic for Kaley's lack of nominations and reach the conclusion that she must suck as an actress.

So, you're saying Mayim has sucked as an actress, in all the other roles she's ever done, except for this one?  That doesn't make her much of an actress then, and I don't agree with this.   

2 minutes ago, Judith said:

And like I said above, the fact that Mayim or Kelsey got nominated only for one role doesn't invalidate the value of their acting in that particular role and neither does it mean that it was the role that gave them the noms. Playing a quirky character doesn't mean you'll be good at it.

 I've never claimed that Mayim sucks as an actor, except for this role.  But, according to you, this role is the only one she's acted well at.   My claim is simply the character Mayim plays is quirky and memorable enough that it get her nominations, where her acting in other roles, which weren't that quirky or memorable didn't.  Doesn't make her previous acting bad, and her acting in this role good.   I'm sorry, I can't quite believe that Mayim's only become a good actor, after joining this show.  

 

2 minutes ago, Judith said:

I've already compared Kaley's acting, not her role, to the other women's roles and Mayim comes on top. I'll say it again: playing a quirky character doesn't automatically mean you'll be good at it. You need talent to act well, the role won't do that for you and playing a straight type of character doesn't mean you can't excel at it or that you won't get nominations/awards if you deserve it.

Again, my claim is that both Mayim and Kaley are good actresses.  It's the character of Amy Farrah Fowler, that is the difference in the number of awards.  

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Do you think Julias Dresyfield from Seinfeld who plays a brilliant a role in Veep. Would get Emmys if matarialistically her character was more simple. Like the blonde girl next door? No. I don't get what the argument is here. I am not proclaiming either actress is better. But point is Mayim did not make this show a hit. The original cast did. While you could argue Mayim is techincally a better actress. That does make her more talented. Kaley has been in the comedy buisness all her life. I remember scenes with Johnny when Leonard disowned her. Kaley plays emotions with such sensisitivity and subtleness. It is the characterization. Mayim does not come out on top at all. She is simply prominent because she plays Sheldons GF. 

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8 hours ago, luminous said:

From TBBT's official YouTube Channel:

 

 

I wonder when the painting of Penny and Amy found its way back to 4B? :scratchhead:

They showed it this season like 7 or 8 episodes ago.

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4 hours ago, Judith said:

That's because that is all she can bring to the table. She's had ten years and everything going for her for a long time (especially season six which you Lennies consider to be the best season for them) to prove otherwise but yet she hasn't. If she had such brilliant comedic skills as you guys like to claim the fact that she has been the lone female protagonist of such a successful show for so many years would have won her some critical acclaim by now. Basically it's her acting that hasn't won her anything not that her character's writing has been limiting her, for what, ten years? Please. 

I also couldn't care less who Kelsey Grammar is, she could have very well been good only in that role and I'm certainly not going to take your word for anything that you have to sa y about her.

Sure, also the history of Emmy awards is full of people who were nominated and/or won because they had talent and deserved to be, and Mayim is one of them while Kaley isn't.

And who are you to say that's all Kaley can bring to the table? Some kind of talent agent, or somebody who knows a lot about acting?  You are just a poster like the rest of us who has an opinion which is that, simply an opinion which holds the exact same value than another poster's opinion, not more not less.

And what are we going to do now, measure acting chops in Emmys won or nominated for? Really? Why don't we do salaries? In that case Kaley would be miles ahead of Mayim. What? It doesn't seem a fair way to measure talent? Why not? 

My point is , as I've said, that at the end of the day it is all just opinions. I, for example thought that Kaley was great in S6: tender, sweet, understanding. lovely, funny, appealing etc.

 

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1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

Do you think Julias Dresyfield from Seinfeld who plays a brilliant a role in Veep. Would get Emmys if matarialistically her character was more simple. Like the blonde girl next door? No. I don't get what the argument is here. I am not proclaiming either actress is better. But point is Mayim did not make this show a hit. The original cast did. While you could argue Mayim is techincally a better actress. That does make her more talented. Kaley has been in the comedy buisness all her life. I remember scenes with Johnny when Leonard disowned her. Kaley plays emotions with such sensisitivity and subtleness. It is the characterization. Mayim does not come out on top at all. She is simply prominent because she plays Sheldons GF. 

No intention of jumping in the Mayim/Kaley discussion, but IMO Jim Parsons, more than anyone else, made the show a hit...That's probably why the show centers around Sheldon so much these days.

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3 hours ago, Carlos said:

And who are you to say that's all Kaley can bring to the table? Some kind of talent agent, or somebody who knows a lot about acting?  You are just a poster like the rest of us who has an opinion which is that, simply an opinion which holds the exact same value than another poster's opinion, not more not less.

And what are we going to do now, measure acting chops in Emmys won or nominated for? Really? Why don't we do salaries? In that case Kaley would be miles ahead of Mayim. What? It doesn't seem a fair way to measure talent? Why not? 

My point is , as I've said, that at the end of the day it is all just opinions. I, for example thought that Kaley was great in S6: tender, sweet, understanding. lovely, funny, appealing etc.

 

Sofia Vergara has been nominated for four Golden Globes and four Emmy's. I don't watch MF a lot but JMO I don't think she's  the greatest actress in the world. Certainly not better than any female on TBBT. But if you go by the nominations she is.

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I can't really take awards seriously. Just look at how many outstanding performances Leonardo DiCaprio had to deliver in order to finally get an Oscar while Jennifer Lawrence, who is mediocre at best compared to DiCaprio, got one sooner. Out of the three women on Friends, only Aniston and Kudrow got awards even though Courteney Cox was just as great as the other two. David Schwimmer is a phenomenal comedic and dramatic actor as well and he never received an award, either while Matt LeBlanc, who was IMO the weakest link on the show, got a Golden Globe (albeit after Friends). 

I enjoy all the women on TBBT and everything they bring to it. I especially enjoy watching the three of them together. 

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2 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

I can't really take awards seriously. Just look at how many outstanding performances Leonardo DiCaprio had to deliver in order to finally get an Oscar while Jennifer Lawrence, who is mediocre at best compared to DiCaprio, got one sooner. Out of the three women on Friends, only Aniston and Kudrow got awards even though Courteney Cox was just as great as the other two. David Schwimmer is a phenomenal comedic and dramatic actor as well and he never received an award, either while Matt LeBlanc, who was IMO the weakest link on the show, got a Golden Globe (albeit after Friends). 

I enjoy all the women on TBBT and everything they bring to it. I especially enjoy watching the three of them together. 

yeah me too. But I don't get why we need to degrade Kaley or any other actor on this show, to elevate Mayim or Jim. Mayim was not existing first three seasons. And the show became a mega hit. While she is a valuable asset to the show. She is not vital. 

ETA. I agree re David Schwimmer. He is up their as one of the most diverse actors ever. He should of won an emmy for his role in People v OJ Simpson. OT Sorry. Just saying lol. 

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16 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

A little interview with cast&crew. In the article there's also another clip from the finale (just few seconds...)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2017/05/09/big-bang-theory-cbs-season-10-cliffhanger-jim-parsons-chuck-lorre/101456788/

Wow, with this little clip and also the new photo (for me) including the sneaks, we have probably seen at least 90% of the final episode. That's pretty weird. :icon_rolleyes:

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