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[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

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2 hours ago, shamyyellow said:

I feel like every season declines in the middle whereas the beginning and the end are almost always better. It makes sense that halfway through, they aren't starting a storyline or summing anything up so it gets a little iffy... but that's just my own personal opinion about quality, not ratings.

I know this was a conversation a few weeks back, but there are so many reasons why ratings drop, especially since the way people watch television is constantly changing. It's not just people switching cable for iTunes, Amazon, and Netflix, it's the habits we are forming because of that. TBBT in general is increasingly hard to watch week by week in a world of streaming full seasons of hour long episodes. Personally, I can never tell if I like a season or not until I watch it all back to back. That makes me wonder how many people opt for that instead of week to week. Just a few years ago, it wasn't so easy to do it any other way. Now, if I'm not obsessed with a show, I'll just wait and watch it all at once after the season finale airs.

Another huge reason ratings may or may not be what they used to is the lack of promotion. This year, there were zero visits to the set by the usual entertainment shows. They didn't hold any special events, they didn't do any panels, and there was little to no excitement coming from them to us. We saw promotion work rather nicely in S9 between the hype over Shamy coitus and the 200th episode. The only promotion this season got was from their official YouTube channel a day before and a few hours after the finale aired. Keep in mind that their channel has a total of 400K subscribers, which is a great example of how bad numbers aren't exact cut and dry. How does a show with 20M viewers have such a weak online following? There are a lot of answers but none of them have to do with the overall popularity of the show. However, the number of people that promo reached explains why it did nothing for them.

With the last 3 seasons, we have seen ratings slip in March/April/May. I don't know why exactly, but they do. I truly believe the reasons I stated have at least something to do with it, but even the overall age of the show will have some impact over time. We live in the day and age of new everything all the time and what isn't placed right in front of our faces isn't always recognized or remembered.

And I will admit that Lenny's constant fighting and bickering has definitely turned me off, so I can't really blame anyone else who hasn't enjoyed it much either. That isn't to blame Lenny for the decline, but to say the show was more cohesive when that wasn't the case. The people on this forum who are the least happy and threaten to quit watching the show are Lennies, so it makes sense their downfall is at least partly to blame for ratings going down. 

No I would say the continued focus on Shamy, has caused Ratings to go down hill more then anything. Lenny have barley fought the last 5 to the finalie. 

45 minutes ago, jenafan said:

I watched episode 9.2 tonight.   All throughout the episode, Leonard and the others referred to the kiss with Mandy as a drunken make out.  Bernie even felt guilty for not telling Penny she has known all along.  Even without the interview, it seems obvious Leonard's situation was different from Sheldon's.

What Leonard did was as an accident due to the influence of alcohol.  He participated in a kiss, something he would not have done sober.  Penny considered it cheating and was even shocked Leonard would ever do such a thing to her and then cover it over the two years.   While we didn't see the events happen on screen, the dialogue regarding the matter and Leonard's guilty conscience in trying make the situation right is enough to know he felt and was partially responsible for what happened.

Sheldon deserves some flack for spending so much time alone with another woman with Amy away, creating the perfect opportunity for temptation to set in or for Ramona to make an advance toward him.   Was he wrong?  No, but his actions were not wise.  Is it wrong for someone to go walk alone in a park?  No, but one takes risks in doing so.  Whether Sheldon believed his behavior was inappropriate or not does not negate the fact that while he called Leonard out for asking about Ramona's boyfriend status and calling Amy during the night, that he himself was exhibiting the very behavior he was condemning.  I cringed, not about the swimming, but because Sheldon accepted Ramona's self invite to his home with Amy not there.  Had Amy not Skyped, who knows what shenanigans Ramona would have pulled.  Furthermore, even if Sheldon rejected her, where is his defense?  She could claim anything with his word against hers.  

The man is obviously clueless.  Sheldon does it again by allowing Ramona to come into the office with the door shut behind her and telling her he enjoys spending time with her while she is obviously trying to woo him over with a homemade office picnic.  Sheldon, for the life of him, cannot read what is going on behind her actions.  So, he point blank asks.  To state his situation was the same as Leonard's by claiming he participated in Ramona's forced thrust in his face because he didn't push her away would not hold up if the evidence were presented for a case to indicate cheating.  Let's be realistic here.  Sheldon was taken advantage of.  Ramona didn't like the reasons Sheldon was providing for why a romantic relationship was not possible, and she thought she could tempt him by kissing him.  He clearly was not moved by it.  He was paralyzed with shock and stepped away from the situation.

Life is not fair.  People make mistakes.  Others are in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Some are hard luck cases while others seem to always get the benefit of the doubt and always come out ahead.  

I don't think Sheldon is written to make Leonard look bad.  It is simply two different people with different lives and personalities.  Sheldon insults Leonard.  Leonard tries to build Sheldon up.   Leonard is the good guy who gets all the bad breaks but manages to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it off and move on.  Sheldon is the naive sometimes jerk who has everyone wrapped around his finger and seems to always come up on top despite his behavior.  The Shelnard friendship dynamic works for them.  It is part of what the show is about.   

It is understandable that storys get repeated with different characters.  All couples go through their version of courtship, break ups, make ups, time apart, mistakes, major life decisions, etc.  The show would be awfully boring if every scenario ended with the same outcome.  

I don't understand the Lenny and Shamy comparisons trying to justify the claim one is written in a way to achieve a specific perception of another.  The couples are different. The way they deal with their individual relationships according to their personalities and what they know about their mates if different.  Leonard deals with and responds to situations opposite from the way Sheldon does.  

Leonard was labeled a cheater, so Sheldon should be, too, because it makes Leonard look bad if he isn't?  Really?   That ship sailed a long time ago when Penny forgave him.  Why can't we?  

It is not supposed to be a tit-for-tat.  It never was.

I don't think it is about a fan reaction to Sheldon being deemed a cheater because Leonard is. But the consistency in which Sheldon is percieved to be supeior. And Leonard is inferior in every single way. Sheldon "cheating" does not change every week they degrade Leonard. This is just another seperate example of it. They are not mutually exclusive. 

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Lagernisse said:

Doesn't Sheldon always wins over Leonard ?

If one insists on comparing, then it does seem so.    

However, that does not mean Sheldon is written for the purpose of making Leonard look bad or Leonard is written badly to make Sheldon look good.  

The writers have simply chosen to write character traits in Leonard and Sheldon they wish to exploit that have nothing to do with one or the other but create a form of sibling rivalry between the Sheldon haters, the Sheldon apologists, and those in the middle of the argument who just want peace and to enjoy the show as it is written and as a whole.

JMHO. Obviously, I can't think for the writers.  

Edited by jenafan
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, veejay said:

I’ve come across on this interesting article, which is a bit extended and seriously concerned with the current status of our beloved comedy. I think the expressed opinion here is plausible and not far-fetched or biased at all, despite the headline (IMHO).

http://www.fame10.com/entertainment/7-reasons-why-we-are-ready-for-the-big-bang-theory-to-end/?streamview=all

Possibly a small stimulus for an upcoming summer hiatus discussion. :shy:

I go on social media and majority of the audience are ready for the show to end. This is not shippers talking. But mostly everyone. I feel the show has outgrown its welcome, but that is just my opinion. Usual opinion "Targeting the lowest common denominator". "Show has not been funny in years". They are not wrong LOL. I am too invested to stop watching now though. 

Edited by 3ku11
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15 minutes ago, jenafan said:

If one insists on comparing, then it does seem so.    

However, that does not mean Sheldon is written for the purpose of making Leonard look bad or Leonard is written badly to make Sheldon look good.  

The writers have simply chosen to write character traits in Leonard and Sheldon they wish to exploit that have nothing to do with one or the other but create a form of sibling rivalry between the Sheldon haters, the Sheldon apologists, and those in the middle of the argument who just want peace and to enjoy the show as it is written and as a whole.

JMHO. Obviously, I can't think for the writers.  

I agree with you, even if Sheldon as a character bugs me more than makes me laugh since the last three years. :shy:

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4 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

I go on social media and majority of the audience are ready for the show to end. This is not shippers talking. But mostly everyone. I feel the show has outgrown its welcome, but that is just my opinion. Usual opinion "Targeting the lowest common denominator". "Show has not been funny in years". They are not wrong LOL. I am too invested to stop watching now though. 

And yet all these people on social media still watch it.

If I hated the show as much as they claim they do I wouldn't keep watching it, especially those pining for the old days when you had 3 guys trying to get into the girl across the halls knicker's and the other being for the most part in his own bubble. Those days aren't coming back.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Jonny said:

And yet all these people on social media still watch it.

If I hated the show as much as they claim they do I wouldn't keep watching it, especially those pining for the old days when you had 3 guys trying to get into the girl across the halls knicker's and the other being for the most part in his own bubble. Those days aren't coming back.

Agree and I am glad they aren't! It would be like a person in their forties as they wished be doing all stuff they used to do in their tweties. It would not make sense as people grew neither it would be sound realistic, one of the good things about this show, as viewers can relate some of the storylines with themselves.  Being stuck in past soon or later became an issue for these people. In show's narrative and timeline if it had been stuck with these guys as they were in season 1-4, surely the show had been already canceled and we had also not had so interisting talks around here. For all reasons I am looking foward to seeing what future holds to all these characters. Surely I am happy about some things the show had been giving me as viewer, others I hope they can surprise me for good.  However in reality life is not perfect so I enjoy the excitment of finding out what these two more seasons could come up to each of the characters.  It would be so boring if everything was perfect  and in the way I wish it should be for the each of the characters . 

Edited by spidergirl
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6 hours ago, No Regrets said:

What you're saying makes sense until I start thinking about how Leonard as a character is so often looked down upon by the writers for whatever reason. He's not fit enough, he's not successful enough, he's not attractive enough, he was lucky to land Penny (they'll even let Leonard imply that himself over and over), he's not a good enough husband, he's not a good enough son, he's not as popular at work and so on and so on. Even if they're not deliberately trying to make Sheldon look better, Leonard will always come off as inferior because that's how they make almost every character see him. And that's what bothers me so, so much. Leonard is a good guy and he doesn't deserve that as a character. 

From originally being nearly the POV character on TBBT, Leonard has become the show's Alan Harper from Two and a Half Men.

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5 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

From originally being nearly the POV character on TBBT, Leonard has become the show's Alan Harper from Two and a Half Men.

Or Meg lol.

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4 hours ago, veejay said:

I’ve come across on this interesting article, which is a bit extended and seriously concerned with the current status of our beloved comedy. I think the expressed opinion here is plausible and not far-fetched or biased at all, despite the headline (IMHO).

http://www.fame10.com/entertainment/7-reasons-why-we-are-ready-for-the-big-bang-theory-to-end/?streamview=all

Possibly a small stimulus for an upcoming summer hiatus discussion. :shy:

Ouch! 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

From originally being nearly the POV character on TBBT, Leonard has become the show's Alan Harper from Two and a Half Men.

That was inevitable though right? 

As soon as the guys started to actually have relationships and experienced what some of life has to offer they didn't need Leonard to be that link as much. That's what he was at times early in the show, the guy who clearly has issues of his own (with his parents most notably) but that didn't stop him, he was more level headed and had more success on the life front for example with women or other social situations. He was kind of seen as the leader because of that, the one they turned to in those situations. Penny also played a similar role, they were both that bridge.

They still do turn to Penny and Leonard, you have seen that this season but not as much in the past and that makes a lot of sense to me why that's the case.

Edited by Jonny
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Regarding the making Leonard/Lenny look bad to elevate Sheldon/Shamy, I personally see it a lot, especially this season. There are many comments (especially Sheldon's) directly doing this or adjacent scenes implying it. There is a reason why other posters and I feel like these comparisons exist and not comparisons between Lenny and Howardette or Leonard and Howard, Penny and Amy/Bernadette etc.

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On 5/13/2017 at 1:03 PM, bfm said:

Yeah I think you're right. First, I think they will show Amy's response because Molaro said not showing it would make fans feel betrayed if they didn't.

So for Molaro only the newer fans supposedly brought in by Shamy count. He's shown innumerable times that he doesn't care how betrayed the original fans for whom Leonard and Penny are the romantic couple they care about may feel. This really is an outrageous thing for M to say if you think about it. I know nothing about this Molaro apart from what I've read on this forum, but I kind of intensely dislike him.

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My guess is we will have a time jump in 11X01or 11X02. Maybe Amy's reaction and then a time jump. It is just a guess though, as good as any.

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8 hours ago, shamyyellow said:

I guess I just see that Sheldon/Shamy fans let it go while Leonard/Lenny fans don't because they're unhappy with the storylines and lack of progress they've been given. And no, I'm not saying that's unreasonable. I guess I'm just pointing out that the problem always comes back to Lenny being mistreated. Shamy is in a good place, so those jokes at his/their expense don't really bother us. If the writers would just fix Lenny and give their fans something more/better to focus on, this probably wouldn't even be a discussion.

Maybe for others it wouldn't be, for me it would because Leonard's treatment has always bothered me even when Lenny were fine. Just look at his relationship with his mother. To her, he's such a disappointment while she just LOVES Sheldon. Where is the basis for that? What exactly about Leonard is disappointing? That he has a respectable job? That he earns good money? That he turned out to be a decent man despite receiving no love as a child whatsoever? Sure, if Leonard and Penny were fine it certainly would balance the bad stuff out a little and it certainly felt better to me when I felt that Penny always had his back, but overall the message I feel the writers always get across is "Leonard isn't good enough" and I just don't see the basis for that. 

And I'm thinking we all suffer from selective memory a little depending on which character(s) we love the most, no?

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On 09/05/2017 at 0:11 AM, vonmar said:

ETA: It was taken the night of the taping of 7x8 "The Itchy Brain Simulation"  (according to Twitter)

Of course it was.

The giveaway is Amy's yellow cardigan, the kettle, 2 cups, and the box of tea bags.

 

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9 minutes ago, bfm said:

My guess is we will have a time jump in 11X01or 11X02. Maybe Amy's reaction and then a time jump. It is just a guess though, as good as any.

A time jump in either episode 1 or 2 seems to be very likely at the moment. Time will tell if we are right. :shy:

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Posted (edited)

My guess\wish, instead, is a few episodes with Amy still in Princeton and Sheldon back in Pasadena, before the time jump. I would like to see how Amy's experience goes. I know we are not going to have huge plots about her, but maybe some Skype calls to Sheldon and the others could give us a glimpse of what she is doing in NJ,  they did something like that when Howard went to space and it worked pretty well, I think. Ideally, for me, after 11.1 (which I guess will be devoted to the proposal aftermath), she could be back for 11.3-11.4. It could also be useful to gradually catch up with real time, in the last couple of season the show has been a bit messy as for the time line.

Edited by mirs1
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10 hours ago, veejay said:

I've come across on this interesting article, which is a bit extended and seriously concerned with the current status of our beloved comedy. I think the expressed opinion here is plausible and not far-fetched or biased at all, despite the headline (IMHO).

http://www.fame10.com/entertainment/7-reasons-why-we-are-ready-for-the-big-bang-theory-to-end/?streamview=all

Jeeze, and when I said on several boards I wanted it to go out after ten while it was still fresh and on top I got reamed out. This is interesting.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, veejay said:

I’ve come across on this interesting article, which is a bit extended and seriously concerned with the current status of our beloved comedy. I think the expressed opinion here is plausible and not far-fetched or biased at all, despite the headline (IMHO).

http://www.fame10.com/entertainment/7-reasons-why-we-are-ready-for-the-big-bang-theory-to-end/?streamview=all

Possibly a small stimulus for an upcoming summer hiatus discussion. :shy:

That article is great and it details in very eloquent and well thought out explanations all the problems inherent with TBBT now a days. I have no way to prove this, but it seems to me that people now watch it more out of habit than because of the show's quality.

Edited by Carlos
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7 hours ago, Jonny said:

If I hated the show as much as they claim they do I wouldn't keep watching it, especially those pining for the old days when you had 3 guys trying to get into the girl across the halls knicker's and the other being for the most part in his own bubble. Those days aren't coming back.

I don't like everything about it but I still like to watch it. I complain about what I don't like and enjoy what I do. But you are right about it not going back to those days. I just still like it better than what else it out there, though.

37 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

My guess\wish, instead, is a few episodes with Amy still in Princeton and Sheldon back in Pasadena, before the time jump. I would like to see how Amy's experience goes. I know we are not going to have huge plots about her, but maybe some Skype calls to Sheldon and the others could give us a glimpse of what she is doing in NJ,  they did something like that when Howard went to space and it worked pretty well, I think. Ideally, for me, after 11.1 (which I guess will be devoted to the proposal aftermath), she could be back for 11.3-11.4. It could also be useful to gradually catch up with real time, in the last couple of season the show has been a bit messy as for the time line.

I still think there's a lot of comedy that could be done with them opening as the gang is searching for the missing Sheldon, especially if Ramona is also missing.

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Posted (edited)

That is interesting...probably TBBT will have a tough competitor on Thursday nights next season, it will be against the Will and Grace reboot

http://ew.com/tv/2017/05/14/nbc-schedule-2017-18/?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

42 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I still think there's a lot of comedy that could be done with them opening as the gang is searching for the missing Sheldon, especially if Ramona is also missing.

That can happen in the premiere, but it can't be dragged out for more than one episode, after all they need to make just a phone call to understand where Sheldon is. After 11.1 either there is the time jump and Amy returns home or they explore having Amy in Princeton for a while. I prefer the latter.

Edited by mirs1
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Another site that think season 10 was weak.

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/the-big-bang-theory/49399/the-big-bang-theory-season-10-episode-24-review-the-long-distance-dissonance

Overall, this season has been one of the show’s weakest, with sparks of interest like Raj’s relationship with the university’s cleaning lady and Bernadette’s trouble adjusting to motherhood batted away as quickly as they were introduced. But there have been bright spots, and new characters like Bert promise to keep the show fresh as we move further into the double digits.

If I were to guess, the rest of the show will be much like this episode - unsurprising, preoccupied with Sheldon, only occasionally funny yet comforting in its own way.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, No Regrets said:

Maybe for others it wouldn't be, for me it would because Leonard's treatment has always bothered me even when Lenny were fine. Just look at his relationship with his mother. To her, he's such a disappointment while she just LOVES Sheldon. Where is the basis for that? What exactly about Leonard is disappointing? That he has a respectable job? That he earns good money? That he turned out to be a decent man despite receiving no love as a child whatsoever? Sure, if Leonard and Penny were fine it certainly would balance the bad stuff out a little and it certainly felt better to me when I felt that Penny always had his back, but overall the message I feel the writers always get across is "Leonard isn't good enough" and I just don't see the basis for that. 

And I'm thinking we all suffer from selective memory a little depending on which character(s) we love the most, no?

I don't care about Beverly because it is clear that she is a terrible, troubled, sick person. As long as it is just her I really don't care. What bothers me is that I feel that Leonard was way more appreciated (many times not enough, bt still appreciated) earlier in the series but as it progressed this appreciation vanished. Now he is beaten by everyone with barely anyone appreciating him. Seriously, when was the last time he was really appreciated? I think it wasn't more than 4-5 times this season, most of them not very significant (By his dad and by Sheldon at the re-do, by Penny at the Comic-Con episode and when he suggested they help Raj, and together with Penny when Raj left) . And it's not that there is nothing to appreciate him for. What about giving Amy tips on handling Sheldon and trying to warn her about Ramona? She was so ungrateful. What about continuing to drive Sheldon to work when he has a driver's license? And this what about HIS super fluid idea, that was the basis of the gyroscope project? Sheldon took over it and (somewhat unintentionally) took all the credit, later on it was never mentioned that it was his idea and Sheldon became the superhero of the project. Sheldon and Howard made meaningful contribution but without Leonard's idea they wouldn't have this project, but of course he is only good to draw Charlie Brown's hair and Sheldon keeps devaluating his intelligence. These are just few examples, there are many more.  

Edited by bfm
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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, bfm said:

I don't care about Beverly because it is clear that she is a terrible, troubled, sick person. As long as it is just her I really don't care. What bothers me is that I feel that Leonard was way more appreciated (many times not enough, bt still appreciated) earlier in the series but as it progressed this appreciation vanished. Now he is beaten by everyone with barely anyone appreciating him. Seriously, when was the last time he was really appreciated? I think it wasn't more than 4-5 times this season, most of them not very significant (By his dad and by Sheldon at the re-do, by Penny at the Comic-Con episode and when he suggested they help Raj, and together with Penny when Raj left) . And it's not that there is nothing to appreciate him for. What about giving Amy tips on handling Sheldon and trying to warn her about Ramona? She was so ungrateful. What about continuing to drive Sheldon to work when he has a driver's license? And this what about HIS super fluid idea, that was the basis of the gyroscope project? Sheldon took over it and (somewhat unintentionally) took all the credit, later on it was never mentioned that it was his idea and Sheldon became the superhero of the project. Sheldon and Howard made meaningful contribution but without Leonard's idea they wouldn't have this project, but of course he is only good to draw Charlie Brown's hair and Sheldon keeps devaluating his intelligence. These are just few examples, there are many more.  

Sheldon didn't take all the credit for that project, I think they did a nice job highlighting that all three were needed to make the project a success. Leonard had the initial theory, Howard with an idea to test it or make use of it and Sheldon did the maths.

It took all three of them to make it work, something Leonard pointed out on at least a couple of occasions.

Oh and I loved the Charlie Brown hair thing backfiring on them as they tried to manipulate and trick him. Thought it was hilarious and one of the highlights of the season.

Edited by Jonny
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