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[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

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Posted

11 minutes ago, veejay said:

Would Janine ever agree with him about adorable cheating penguins? :shy:

I just want to hear her call him brown sugar.

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On 12/05/2017 at 11:44 PM, Die Zimtzicke said:

It's just a feeling based on what they've said but I honestly think the writers feel that this is an ensemble show and that Penny and Leonard have had their turn at being the major characters. There was no Amy or Bernie for years. The focus for the most part, not all, but the most part was on Lenny. Then they started giving Howardette a turn and began Shamy, which went slow as molasses while they had the Howardette wedding and Baby. Lenny already had two weddings. I think the writers want something new to play with and it's Shamy, based on the fact that Sheldon has always been a major character anyway. I know that theory will not make some people happy, but to the writers, the whole fandom is not made up of Lenny fans and they seem to like to change focus every now and then.

You may be right about what the writers feel, but if so I think that they don't know what they're doing. It may be in a sense an ensemble, but that doesn't mean that either characters or actors or relationships between characters are interchangeable. The couples all had different properties and functions. Penny and Leonard were the romantic couple, Penny was the romantic heroine, KC was the unchallenged leading lady. Bernadette and Howard were the domestic couple. Their story was first about sleazy Howard redeemed by the Love of a Good Woman, then about their homemaking and parenthood. That's why it would be pointless to also have P&L get a house of their own - that's been covered. Amy and Sheldon were a parody of a couple, Sheldon with no sex drive and Amy with no sex appeal or charm. More of a running gag - Amy always trying to enveigle Sheldon into being more "couply", Sheldon always escaping Amy's clutches.

But at some point in the last few seasons the show's creators took the inexplicable - and IMO artistically disastrous - decision to sideline Lenny and promote Shamy to romantic couple. Further, Shamy are getting more screen time than Lenny ever did - in 1023 it seemed there was hardly a minute where the screen was free of Amy. And it doesn't work. MB was hired to play the obnoxious, plain, awkward woman who became more or less Sheldon's stalker. Now she's put in the role of romantic heroine, and she just can't do it. Lenny was always a joy to watch, including when they weren't actually a couple, because of the innumerable subtle and authentic ways in which KC showed Penny's feelings for Leonard (and JG did a great job too, of course; and in those golden days the writers gave them great lines). Now when Amy is supposed to show her "love" for Sheldon it's either mawkish and embarrassing or rather sickening or just horrible; and always boring. It really should have been obvious to the writers that the idea that this zero-chemistry couple could take the place of Lenny in the structure of the show was absurd.

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On 5/15/2017 at 11:30 AM, 5Mississippis said:

Sheldon also let Aquaman record away, capturing any intimate activities between Leonard and Penny, without informing them they were being recorded for god knows how long.

When they became aware, Leonard, standing behind the kitchen island (naturally), looked distressed and sighed heavily, just looked down at the table. Just a frustrated sigh?! Sheldon got away easy for that one. If that were me, Sheldon would have gotten punched right in the face. 

Also, in "The itchy Brain Simulation" where Sheldon had Leonard wear that sweater until he returned the rented tape was in Amy's words "diabolical"!

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10 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Also, in "The itchy Brain Simulation" where Sheldon had Leonard wear that sweater until he returned the rented tape was in Amy's words "diabolical"!

I thought it was more a case of "more fool Leonard".

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Posted

12 minutes ago, sarah7 said:

Sorry, but the Sheldon's stalker's role had always been Ramona's.

 

Ramona's been on the show twice in 10 years. JMO but always would seem to have to happen more than twice.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, JohnPhD said:

You may be right about what the writers feel, but if so I think that they don't know what they're doing. It may be in a sense an ensemble, but that doesn't mean that either characters or actors or relationships between characters are interchangeable. The couples all had different properties and functions. Penny and Leonard were the romantic couple, Penny was the romantic heroine, KC was the unchallenged leading lady. Bernadette and Howard were the domestic couple. Their story was first about sleazy Howard redeemed by the Love of a Good Woman, then about their homemaking and parenthood. That's why it would be pointless to also have P&L get a house of their own - that's been covered. Amy and Sheldon were a parody of a couple, Sheldon with no sex drive and Amy with no sex appeal or charm. More of a running gag - Amy always trying to enveigle Sheldon into being more "couply", Sheldon always escaping Amy's clutches.

Do you mean in general, or just season ten? I'm a huge fan of the show and I never saw Lenny as THE only possibility for a romantic couple. In the beginning all the guys were hot for her, not just Leonard, and I figured they'd all get romances at some point. She was not a heroine in the beginning, either. She was often dumb, or skanky or showing how mean she had been when she was younger. Then Lenny did get more romantic, and she learned to appreciate the nerdy guys, to the point of having two weddings, but they certainly have not been romantic much this year, unless you count the fantasy sequences. Howard and Bernie have changed a lot since they started but I agree there's no point in Lenny buying a house. As for Sheldon escaping Amy's clutches, while she's made it clear once she fell in love with him that she'd like more than she was getting, she never forced him into anything regarding sex, and twice when he was willing to have sex, the make a baby scene and the scene when they get back from Bernie's false alarm, they did not have sex. She never stalked him as I see it. They were friends, albeit through text messaging at first and then they fell in love.

Shamy are the new angle the writers want to go in, apparently, and I still think it's because they think they've done what they think they needed to do with Lenny. Whether I'm right or not, or whether they are right or not remains to be seen. There's a lot they could do with them individually, though, and I wish they would, mostly regarding Penny's job. And I do think they are going to finally do something with Raj next season. They'd better, as I see it. I used to like him but this season he was more of a failure than Stuart, who also needs a storyline where he finally succeeds at something. Maybe something to do with his art.

Meanwhile, on a new note, I'd love to see the show bring on this kid who just got his physics degree at 14 and is now supposedly the youngest person to ever do so to meet Sheldon. I think that would be amusing.
http://wgntv.com/2017/05/16/14-year-old-graduates-from-college-with-sights-set-on-graduate-school/

Edited by Die Zimtzicke
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Posted

33 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Shamy are the new angle the writers want to go in, apparently, and I still think it's because they think they've done what they think they needed to do with Lenny. Whether I'm right or not, or whether they are right or not remains to be seen. There's a lot they could do with them individually,

There are a lot of things the writers can do with Lenny as a couple if they just cared, but at the moment it is much more fun to write Shamy and Howardette plots. 

I think it is really a waste of money to have two actors standing behind the kitchen island or in the doorway for 48 episodes doin' nothing.

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4 minutes ago, Lagernisse said:

There are a lot of things the writers can do with Lenny as a couple if they just cared, but at the moment it is much more fun to write Shamy and Howardette plots. 

I think it is really a waste of money to have two actors standing behind the kitchen island or in the doorway for 48 episodes doin' nothing.

I remember each actor most definitely doing something - something important - in the recent episodes.  

I remember the one getting the important punchlines.

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Posted

1 hour ago, sarah7 said:

And regarding Shamy taking the place of the main couple, well, since Sheldon had overpowered the whole show, it's only logical that his own personal/love story is also the one getting more attention and screentime.

 

Not sure that it is only logical. Sheldon was a unique comic creation, and IMO being in love doesn't fit well into his character. I suspect the writers have made his relationship central to his character because they couldn't think of anything better.

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Posted (edited)

27 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

Not sure that it is only logical. Sheldon was a unique comic creation, and IMO being in love doesn't fit well into his character. I suspect the writers have made his relationship central to his character because they couldn't think of anything better.

But pushing his boundaries has been part of the show from Day One.  

First with Leonard.

Then with Penny and, now, with Amy.

Edited by Capt. Hilts
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22 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

I remember each actor most definitely doing something - something important - in the recent episodes.  

I remember the one getting the important punchlines.

Punchlines don't equate to quality screen time.  Some of the best puchlines (IMO) in TBBT history have been delivered by Bernadette......

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Do you mean in general, or just season ten? I'm a huge fan of the show and I never saw Lenny as THE only possibility for a romantic couple. In the beginning all the guys were hot for her, not just Leonard, and I figured they'd all get romances at some point. She was not a heroine in the beginning, either. She was often dumb, or skanky or showing how mean she had been when she was younger. Then Lenny did get more romantic, and she learned to appreciate the nerdy guys, to the point of having two weddings, but they certainly have not been romantic much this year, unless you count the fantasy sequences. Howard and Bernie have changed a lot since they started but I agree there's no point in Lenny buying a house. As for Sheldon escaping Amy's clutches, while she's made it clear once she fell in love with him that she'd like more than she was getting, she never forced him into anything regarding sex, and twice when he was willing to have sex, the make a baby scene and the scene when they get back from Bernie's false alarm, they did not have sex. She never stalked him as I see it. They were friends, albeit through text messaging at first and then they fell in love.

Shamy are the new angle the writers want to go in, apparently, and I still think it's because they think they've done what they think they needed to do with Lenny. Whether I'm right or not, or whether they are right or not remains to be seen. There's a lot they could do with them individually, though, and I wish they would, mostly regarding Penny's job. And I do think they are going to finally do something with Raj next season. They'd better, as I see it. I used to like him but this season he was more of a failure than Stuart, who also needs a storyline where he finally succeeds at something. Maybe something to do with his art.

Meanwhile, on a new note, I'd love to see the show bring on this kid who just got his physics degree at 14 and is now supposedly the youngest person to ever do so to meet Sheldon. I think that would be amusing.
http://wgntv.com/2017/05/16/14-year-old-graduates-from-college-with-sights-set-on-graduate-school/

The heroine doesn't have to be perfect - just the female character whose romantic life is most significant. Surely Bridget Jones is the "heroine" of BJ's Diary?

No, L & P haven't been romantic much this season - that's my complaint.

There was an episode where Amy had flu, and Sheldon had to look after her. I can't remember which it was or identify it. When Amy was better she didn't tell Sheldon because she was getting her jollies from his helping her in the bath and rubbing her chest with vapor rub. Sheldon found out she was faking, but never knew it was for the sexual thrills - A just told him "it's been so nice having you look after me".  Bernadette knew A was exploiting innocent S for sexual gratification but never told anyone else apparently. There's a lot of info about Amy that hasn't been shared.

Edited by JohnPhD
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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

Punchlines don't equate to quality screen time.  Some of the best puchlines (IMO) in TBBT history have been delivered by Bernadette......

I agree about screen time, but not about Bernadette.

I'm also not ready to say that Leonard and Penny just stood behind the kitchen counter and didn't do anything.

7 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

The heroine doesn't have to be perfect - just the female character whose romantic life is most significant. Surely Bridget Jones is the "heroine" of BJ's Diary?

No, L & P haven't been romantic much this season - that's my complaint.

There was an episode where Amy had flu, and Sheldon had to look after her. I can't remember which it was or identify it. When Amy was better she didn't tell Sheldon because she was getting her jollies from his helping her in the bath and rubbing her chest with vapor rub. Sheldon found out she was faking, but never knew it was for the sexual thrills - A just told him "it's been so nice having you look after me".  Bernadette knew A was exploiting innocent S for sexual gratification but never told anyone else apparently. There's a lot of info about Amy that hasn't been shared.

That sneeky bitch!

Edited by Capt. Hilts
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Posted

 

2 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Do you mean in general, or just season ten? I'm a huge fan of the show and I never saw Lenny as THE only possibility for a romantic couple. In the beginning all the guys were hot for her, not just Leonard, and I figured they'd all get romances at some point.

Really?  Even Sheldon in the beginning?  Can you specify the beginning?   Because I didn't see Sheldon getting anyone at all prior to season four.    

 

2 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

She (Penny) was not a heroine in the beginning, either. She was often dumb, or skanky or showing how mean she had been when she was younger. Then Lenny did get more romantic, and she learned to appreciate the nerdy guys, to the point of having two weddings,

Can you specify what you mean by the beginning?  I don't remember Penny being overtly dumb in the beginning.  Here and there, yes, but it was balanced by her obvious greater knowledge about pop culture than the guys.  As for skanky, and mean, can you give examples, within your definition of the beginning.  I really don't remember them having her be those (not to mention, what exactly is skanky) before the midpoint of season four, that's hardly the beginning.

 In the beginning, she had just gotten out of a four year relationship, then started dating a guy, who she got rid of after he wrote about their sex life.  Dated Leonard, even left one guy at her door.  At one point in the second season, she hadn't had sex for six months.  Dated Stuart twice.   So, I'm really wondering where the idea that she was skanky in the beginning comes from.  

2 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Meanwhile, on a new note, I'd love to see the show bring on this kid who just got his physics degree at 14 and is now supposedly the youngest person to ever do so to meet Sheldon. I think that would be amusing.
http://wgntv.com/2017/05/16/14-year-old-graduates-from-college-with-sights-set-on-graduate-school/

Why?  They've been there, done that before (See The Jerusalem Duality).  

 

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Posted

5 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

I agree about screen time, but not about Bernadette.

I'm also not ready to say that Leonard and Penny just stood behind the kitchen counter and didn't do anything.

That sneeky bitch!

What did Leonard and Penny accomplish in season 10, besides their redo ?

 

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

The "HR Woman" was called Mrs Davis, and was quite a significant character, altho' she only appeared in 4 episodes. Pity we don't see her any more. I think she'd be more fun than Bert, for example.

Yeah. I didn't do a find and replace. No disrespect intended. I just think that's a good example of what Sheldon believes. He might modify his actions for special cases in response to pain stimuli (Amy telling him off etc) but I feel he doesn't then generalise from those exceptions.  I believe this is an example of his default world view. The show told me so.

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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2 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

Not sure that it is only logical. Sheldon was a unique comic creation, and IMO being in love doesn't fit well into his character. I suspect the writers have made his relationship central to his character because they couldn't think of anything better.

Yes that's been the case for years so guess what they'll probably keep doing that for the next two seasons, which means Shamy will continue to be the center for the next two years despite how much some of us loathe that. 

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Well the tone of the show significantly shifted when they started revolving the show around Shamy. But to be honest Sheldon is the central focus of the show. Not Shamy. Amy just happens to be sharing alot of screentime with Sheldon. They have rewritten Cannon with Sheldon so much now. I suspect they did make relationship central to his character. Because well they decided to develop his character. And not thinking of anything better. Seems to me that all Sheldon is these days. Seems to put puppies, and Taylor Swift lol. Before Science and preserving the knowledge. Sheldon has turned into just another conventional sitcom character. He is Joey! haha. And with Amy most likely saying yes to Sheldon. They well continue to control the tone and overall premise of the show. The rest of the audience. Lenny shippers, Non Shippers e.t.c. Don't really get anything out of watching this show anymore. 

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2 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Well the tone of the show significantly shifted when they started revolving the show around Shamy. But to be honest Sheldon is the central focus of the show. Not Shamy. Amy just happens to be sharing alot of screentime with Sheldon. They have rewritten Cannon with Sheldon so much now. I suspect they did make relationship central to his character. Because well they decided to develop his character. And not thinking of anything better. Seems to me that all Sheldon is these days. Seems to put puppies, and Taylor Swift lol. Before Science and preserving the knowledge. Sheldon has turned into just another conventional sitcom character. He is Joey! haha. And with Amy most likely saying yes to Sheldon. They well continue to control the tone and overall premise of the show. The rest of the audience. Lenny shippers, Non Shippers e.t.c. Don't really get anything out of watching this show anymore. 

Amy has also spent more time with Penny this season (well it feels like that) and the season benefited greatly from that imo.

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5 hours ago, Lagernisse said:

What did Leonard and Penny accomplish in season 10, besides their redo ?

 

I agree with you that they did not get enough screen time.

But they did a whole lot more than just stand behind the kitchen counter.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Capt. Hilts said:

I agree with you that they did not get enough screen time.

But they did a whole lot more than just stand behind the kitchen counter.

The Christmas Tree vignettes were fun. Could have been fleshed out a lot, but it was a funny idea. That's all that sticks from my casual viewing. But Oz is still @10.14 I think.

Two stations have the rights. One has the syndicated series 1-7 (I think) the other has first run rights to 8-10. And they are holding off on 10. So it seems to me that in this market the value of TBBT is diminished, otherwise they'd let them loose fast to grab the advertising bucks quick, before piracy - because the stations are financially challenged now.

There could be other reasons. Still, they are damned slow on the new releases. One wonders.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
'd -7 8- spelling
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2 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

The Christmas Tree vignettes were fun. Could have been fleshed out a lot, but it was a funny idea. That's all that sticks from my casual viewing. But Oz is still @10.14 I think.

Two stations have the rights. One has the syndicated series 1-8 (I think) the other has first run rights to 10. And they are holding off on 10. So it seems to me that in this market the value of TBBT is diminished, otherwise they let them loose fast to grab the advertising bucks quick before piracy - because the stations are finiancially challenged now.

There could be other reasons. Still, they are damned slow on the new releases. One wonders.

Other then the Christmas Tree Sequence. Which imo was funniest scene of the season. Lenny diddn't do much. Two episodes they did have centred around them were weak at best. 

Over here the Season Finalie 10x24 airs here tonight. So us Kiwis ahead of you aussies their :D. 

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Posted

They managed to keep Sheldon out of 4A?

No that didn't work either Sheldon ended up on the couch

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