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[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10


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3 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

It's not a question of where I see it, it's where the writers have written it and the actress has acted it. I've mostly pointed them out as they occurred,. Just a small example, in the GOT viewing ep Amy told L that P manipulated the RA, and implied he should be jealous of P & S's friendship - what else can you make of that? Penny is not her only victim - she lied to avoid caring for S when he had flu (and in an earlier season when she had flu she lied to trick poor Sheldon into physical intimacy). She pretty well hijacked Bernadette's weddding for her own gratification. When Penny was unhappy about Leonard and Priya Amy tried to use the opportunity to be the bully she never had the chance to be at school.

First bold part....no they don't make that obvious.  In fact, the writers and the person who actually created her explained it in one of their panels.  Amy is a girl who never got to experience the things that most girls do.  Having girlfriends, going to the mall, having a "bestie," etc.  She and Sheldon were both sheltered growing up.  The difference is that Sheldon never wanted to experience any of the social stuff.  But once Amy got introduced to it, she was all for experiencing it.  They've written her as someone who never got to go through the normal milestones of life and is now getting to experience them.  That is what they are trying to portray with her character.  They want you to root for her.  Yes, she can be childish and immature but so is Sheldon.   

2nd bold part....sloppy writing that made absolutely no sense.  Just....there's just no other reason.  Amy has never SHOWN any jeolousy towards Penny & Sheldon's friendship.  It was TOLD to us in "anything can happen" in season 7 and everyone was like "wtf?  Where did that come from?"  And this latest one you mention.  Again, it came out of no where and everyone had a wtf reaction to it and/or was pissed about getting GoT ruined for them and the bullying of Stuart. When the writers TELL you something rather than having the characters SHOW you, it's poor and sloppy writing.  Simple as that.  Sadly, there's been a lot of it in these later seasons.  I blame it on Bill (Prady) not having much time to do TBBT but now that muppets has been canceled, he will.  

3rd bold part....hell I would've lied too as much as an ass as he is when he's sick.  But in actuality (and I'm pretty sure from your post, correct me if I'm wrong, you don't read the taping reports and all the tid bits behind a scene or show, etc.?), in real life, Mayim injured her back and her scenes were very limited.  If I remember correctly, it happened around the taping of the coitus episode or right after and the next two episodes were when Amy was on her trip.  All Mayim had to do was sit in a chair and say her lines.  No walking around or moving.   I also think it's interesting that they have Amy away 2 episodes in a row.  Nobody from the show has actually confirmed that's why Amy was away on the trip but we do know the back injury actually happened and we just added it up.  Also, during the taping week last season when Mary & Bev were visiting, Amy only had one scene in that episode.  It was actually taped the following week before the last episode of the season because Mayim was gone that entire week due to her fathers death.  And per contract they have to be in every episode.  I'd love to find out what the writers actually had planned for that episode if Mayim hadn't had to take time off unexpectedly.  

As for "tricking" Sheldon?  Bullshit!  HE is the one that suggested rubbing her chest with vapo rub when all she wanted to do was take a nap.  HE was the one that suggested her "punishment."  She just went with it!  And it's not like she got away with it.  He caught her in the lie and even admitted she gave in to a human weakness.  She didn't kill a man.  

She was over excited about Bernadette's wedding.  She's not the first but let's take her out back and shoot her.  

As for Leonard & Priya, that was Amy trying to be supportive of Penny and being a friend to Penny.  Yeah, she went about it the wrong way but then again, there's the childish and immature behavior I mentioned earlier.  

I don't think it's the Amy show.  I actually do agree with the Lenny's in that it has become a little bit of the Sheldon Show.

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 Just to be clear, we are all watching the same show.  Each of us is interpreting it differently, which is allowable.  References to others watching a different show or either not watching the same show have been removed.  The things that have been left are fine.  Pointing out or supporting your comments are exactly what should be done.  

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Amy does Manipulate Sheldon a bit. But to be fair she kind has to. How else well Sheldon be self aware lol. Amy is jealous of S and P's friendship, as she wishes it was that easy with her and Sheldon. I Guess you could argue she has a reason to be jealous  of Lenny too, and Leonard and Sheldon's relationship. Amy is not perfect, and I Get some find her unlikable. But i don't think she is any Victee. OR uses people in any bad way. It was also established in the Viewing Party ep, Penny used Sheldon to get to Leonard. SO you know they throw these throw away lines or whatever some times. And by S9 finalie nothing happened. 

Edited by 3ku11
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15 hours ago, April said:

 

1) And I say all that as someone who loves Penny. I think she's a great character. But the lack of female main characters aside from her was a huge problem for the show and no amount of "but we're supposed to laugh at the guys" fixes that.

 

2) Bottom line: Variety is key here. Even if you don't like all of the female characters the mere fact that we have a bunch of them to chose from now was a much needed step forward for the show.

1) There is nothing to fix. The fact that the show was originally about 4 guys and a girl is not sexist at all. It's simply the story that was being told. It was more about 4 geeks being helped by another person Penny on how to navigate the real world. The fact that there were4 guys is because Bill Prady and Chuck Lorre knew people like that in real life. I don't believe it was a conscious attempt to be misogynistic.

2) IMO Variety is not the key, and having more women in the show just for the sake of having more women is definitely NOT a step forward. I like Amy and Bernadette, but if I didn't like them I'd feel that the show had gone backwards. The only real mandate of the show is to be funny. It really doesn't need to be PC or anything like that.

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^ TBH I Actually found the show with PEnny and the guys alot more endering and charming. NOt Mysogonistic at all. Because this hot girl partic in S2. Genuinely cared for these eggheads. I found the comedy just funny. I Don't care about progessing the show, or stepping forward. OR being PC. I just care about being funny. And to me S1-3 is supeior to anything the show ever did, with S6 being an exception. The Egg Salad Equivalency was one of the most funniest laugh out loud tv I have ever seen. 

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I love Sheldon and adore Shamy, but as early as "The Adhesive Duck Deficiency" I remember being just gobsmacked at how very good Johnny, Simon, and Kunal were--they just get so overshadowed by Jim in the show.

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5 hours ago, Kathy2611 said:

First bold part....no they don't make that obvious.  In fact, the writers and the person who actually created her explained it in one of their panels.  Amy is a girl who never got to experience the things that most girls do.  Having girlfriends, going to the mall, having a "bestie," etc.  She and Sheldon were both sheltered growing up.  The difference is that Sheldon never wanted to experience any of the social stuff.  But once Amy got introduced to it, she was all for experiencing it.  They've written her as someone who never got to go through the normal milestones of life and is now getting to experience them.  That is what they are trying to portray with her character.  They want you to root for her.  Yes, she can be childish and immature but so is Sheldon.   

2nd bold part....sloppy writing that made absolutely no sense.  Just....there's just no other reason.  Amy has never SHOWN any jeolousy towards Penny & Sheldon's friendship.  It was TOLD to us in "anything can happen" in season 7 and everyone was like "wtf?  Where did that come from?"  And this latest one you mention.  Again, it came out of no where and everyone had a wtf reaction to it and/or was pissed about getting GoT ruined for them and the bullying of Stuart. When the writers TELL you something rather than having the characters SHOW you, it's poor and sloppy writing.  Simple as that.  Sadly, there's been a lot of it in these later seasons.  I blame it on Bill (Prady) not having much time to do TBBT but now that muppets has been canceled, he will.

I don't think it's the Amy show.  I actually do agree with the Lenny's in that it has become a little bit of the Sheldon Show.

4 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Amy does Manipulate Sheldon a bit. But to be fair she kind has to. How else well Sheldon be self aware lol. Amy is jealous of S and P's friendship, as she wishes it was that easy with her and Sheldon. I Guess you could argue she has a reason to be jealous  of Lenny too, and Leonard and Sheldon's relationship. Amy is not perfect, and I Get some find her unlikable. But i don't think she is any Victee. OR uses people in any bad way. It was also established in the Viewing Party ep, Penny used Sheldon to get to Leonard. SO you know they throw these throw away lines or whatever some times. And by S9 finalie nothing happened. 

Butting in to say, Amy isn't jealous of Sheldon and Penny's friendship anymore. In Viewing Party she used the word "annoyed" which IMO was a deliberate choice by the writers compared to Anything... (along with Mayim's nonchalant delivery). In general I think it's normal to feel this way sometimes, in fiction and real life.

@Kathy2611 I'd watch the fuck out of the (Sh)Amy Show.

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2 hours ago, Judith said:

Butting in to say, Amy isn't jealous of Sheldon and Penny's friendship anymore. In Viewing Party she used the word "annoyed" which IMO was a deliberate choice by the writers compared to Anything... (along with Mayim's nonchalant delivery). In general I think it's normal to feel this way sometimes, in fiction and real life.

@Kathy2611 I'd watch the fuck out of the (Sh)Amy Show.

Well I diddn't mean she was jealous. OBviousley her feelings have shifted. She is annoyed now. i Think the writers were goign vicarousley through the audience haha. My point too Penny used Sheldon to get to Leonard. I like TPTB finnally acknowledged these things, its healthy. The Shamy Show? Meh not for me. I woulden't even watch the Lenny show. i prefer the Big Bang Theory back in S6 :icon_biggrin:

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If the introduction of Bernadette and Amy was to introduce more of a gender balance in the show then I can understand why they did that, but I see it more as introducing two new characters to help develop and further the growth of other characters. Bernadette has without doubt developed Howard as a character and Amy has transformed Sheldon's life. Then you also have the way Bernadette and Amy have both given more life to the Penny character as well.

There is no doubt in my mind the show is better with their introduction.

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6 hours ago, Carlos said:

1) There is nothing to fix. The fact that the show was originally about 4 guys and a girl is not sexist at all. It's simply the story that was being told. It was more about 4 geeks being helped by another person Penny on how to navigate the real world. The fact that there were4 guys is because Bill Prady and Chuck Lorre knew people like that in real life. I don't believe it was a conscious attempt to be misogynistic.

I'm not saying that they sat together like a bunch of moustache twirling bad guys contemplating to make an offensive misogynistic show. That is really not what that specific criticism means at all. Really. You can do problematic/bad things without intending any harm. Like accidentally stepping on someone's foot. It happens. And if it does the person will usually want you to fix that and get off their foot. Doesn't mean that they accuse you of intentionally contemplating some foot stepping offence.

6 hours ago, Carlos said:

2) IMO Variety is not the key, and having more women in the show just for the sake of having more women is definitely NOT a step forward. I like Amy and Bernadette, but if I didn't like them I'd feel that the show had gone backwards. The only real mandate of the show is to be funny. It really doesn't need to be PC or anything like that.

Well, obviously if they were badly written they'd be criticised just like I would criticise a terribly written male character. That is equality, too. Opting for no or only one female character in an ensemble otherwise filled with male characters in fear of doing something wrong has given us a myriad of stories that are dominated by male characters that left very little room for female representation. And since you do not seem to be aware of it: the matters of representation are a big topic in the female geek sphere right now and have been for years. It's important for many under-represented groups to see characters like themselves on screen because it happens so infrequently. Just like in that TBBT episode when the guys try to get girls into science - the solution is to let them hear something inspiring from female scientists. It's the same principle.

And I think the TBBT writers did the right thing with Amy and Bernadette cause they based them just like the guys on types of people you can find in real life. The writers took a chance with them and they turned out to be great! They're interesting and funny and contributed many hilarious storylines that made me enjoy the show a lot more.

Last but not least: It's quite clear to me that you do not care about these things at all, as long as you're entertained you don't give a crap about representation or whatever else you deem to be "PC". I get it. You made your point. All I ask is have a little empathy for people who do care. Who are happy to have characters like Amy and Bernadette added to the cast for a variety of reasons.

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48 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

I think adding Bernadette and especially Amy was for one main reason:

1. Add female viewership.

If it didn't they would be both very easy to get rid of.

It played a part, if you are a show you want to appeal to as many demographics as you can and maybe introducing more female characters would probably help achieve that. But is it the main reason? I disagree, I see it as a method to improve the characters overall.

Judging by your avatar you are a Penny fan right? Do you think that Penny was a better character before the introduction of two female friends? Penny isn't my favorite character but she massively improved in my view and became a more well rounded character with the introduction of Bernadette and Amy. Some of the interaction scenes between the girls have been absolutely hilarious, for example the Troll Manifestation scene where they take the micky out of each other's past and the Bakersfield Expedition when they were trying to get into comics.

Seasons 1-3 Penny were very one dimensional but then the whole show was becoming to become stale by that point anyway.

IMO the introduction of Bernadette and Amy should be praised as it continued to make the show grow and be successful, keeping it on television and at the same time created better well rounded characters.

Edited by Jonny83
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15 hours ago, SRAM said:

Based on your logic, Sheldon is the most horrible person on the face of the earth.  He has done more bad things that all the other characters combined.  Also he is the only character to plan and physically torture another character like he did with that sweater.

Actually if you require either malice or betrayal, Sheldon has done surprisingly few bad things, and cannot match Amy's sly malice. The episode woth the itchy sweater was indeed malicious, but also required Leonard's idiotic acquiessence - I'd like Zack's comment on that. Sheldon has done worse in terms of malice and betrayal, altho' not in terms of effect.

In my usual procrastinating way I haven't got around to starting a new thread on the Worst Thing each character has done. It's surprising how often Sheldon is the victim.

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Who needed Amy when they had Leslie Winkle? There was a female scientist you could respect. More or less the anti-Amy. It looks as tho' they couldn't make her permanent just because she wasn't any of the guys' more or less significant other. Now that's sexist.

I liked the way LW used men for sex, but it would be different if a guy did it. I think that's not double standards because behaviour has to be seen in relation to or opposition to existing social standards, but I wouldn't mind some reassurance on that point.

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3 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

Who needed Amy when they had Leslie Winkle? There was a female scientist you could respect. More or less the anti-Amy. It looks as tho' they couldn't make her permanent just because she wasn't any of the guys' more or less significant other. Now that's sexist.

I liked the way LW used men for sex, but it would be different if a guy did it. I think that's not double standards because behaviour has to be seen in relation to or opposition to existing social standards, but I wouldn't mind some reassurance on that point.

Sara Gilbert wanted to do other things at the time.  She started a talk show with Sharon Osborne called "The Talk."

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Actually, it was a combination of those two things.    She was promoted to main cast, then the writers realized her main purpose was as a foil to Sheldon, or as some sort of partner for the guys.  They had closed off the partner  possibility for Leonard(what about the children Leonard?). They tried with Howard and that didn't seem to work.  There wasn't enough to keep her busy as a foil for Sheldon (how often could they have her say "dumbass") so, they demoted her to guest staring.  Her and Sharon had been working on the idea for "The Talk" previously to that and after being demoted, the two of them completed the idea and presented it to CBS.  Which limited her further appearances.  Which is sad, I would have loved to see her and Amy going at it about Sheldon.   

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11 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

Actually if you require either malice or betrayal, Sheldon has done surprisingly few bad things, and cannot match Amy's sly malice. The episode woth the itchy sweater was indeed malicious, but also required Leonard's idiotic acquiessence - I'd like Zack's comment on that. Sheldon has done worse in terms of malice and betrayal, altho' not in terms of effect.

In my usual procrastinating way I haven't got around to starting a new thread on the Worst Thing each character has done. It's surprising how often Sheldon is the victim.

Um yeah no, Sheldon is often never the Victim. In theItchy Brain ep, Sheldon was horrible to Leonard. Leonard was the victim then. Sheldon treats eberyone around him like crap tbh. He is a jerk. I am not sure why after all these years they put up with him. 

13 hours ago, Jonny83 said:

It played a part, if you are a show you want to appeal to as many demographics as you can and maybe introducing more female characters would probably help achieve that. But is it the main reason? I disagree, I see it as a method to improve the characters overall.

Judging by your avatar you are a Penny fan right? Do you think that Penny was a better character before the introduction of two female friends? Penny isn't my favorite character but she massively improved in my view and became a more well rounded character with the introduction of Bernadette and Amy. Some of the interaction scenes between the girls have been absolutely hilarious, for example the Troll Manifestation scene where they take the micky out of each other's past and the Bakersfield Expedition when they were trying to get into comics.

Seasons 1-3 Penny were very one dimensional but then the whole show was becoming to become stale by that point anyway.

IMO the introduction of Bernadette and Amy should be praised as it continued to make the show grow and be successful, keeping it on television and at the same time created better well rounded characters.

I actually prefered Penny before the girls. I Don't care for character progression e.t.c. I just prefered Penny in the first 3 seasons. Most pppl don't care for utilizing the characters, or adding more dimensions. WhileI agree Amy and Bernadette were great addtitions in expanding the show. And were a great influence on Penny.Most people just like one dimension and that's it. Me personally I loved Penny more 2008-2009. Then I do post 2011. But that is just me. You can binge first three seasons more easily then post S5. I understand character development. But end of day if I binge watched the show. Prob 1-3. I agree after 3 which was the peak of the show, it got stale. But for what it was, I prefered that era of the show. IT was more fresh and unique imo. But an example of why I Think Amy and Bernadette have been great for the show. Is Penny. Even go back as far as S3 The Wheaton Recurrance. When Lenny broke up. Penny was isolated, the only female in the scene. Having two Female influences in her life. Really helped with ehr relationship with LEonard. SO I am grateful for that. 

Edited by 3ku11
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13 hours ago, Jonny83 said:

It played a part, if you are a show you want to appeal to as many demographics as you can and maybe introducing more female characters would probably help achieve that. But is it the main reason? I disagree, I see it as a method to improve the characters overall.

Judging by your avatar you are a Penny fan right? Do you think that Penny was a better character before the introduction of two female friends? Penny isn't my favorite character but she massively improved in my view and became a more well rounded character with the introduction of Bernadette and Amy. Some of the interaction scenes between the girls have been absolutely hilarious, for example the Troll Manifestation scene where they take the micky out of each other's past and the Bakersfield Expedition when they were trying to get into comics.

Seasons 1-3 Penny were very one dimensional but then the whole show was becoming to become stale by that point anyway.

IMO the introduction of Bernadette and Amy should be praised as it continued to make the show grow and be successful, keeping it on television and at the same time created better well rounded characters.

I don't think Penny was a better or a worse character. It some ways she was one dimensional but so were the guys. But I also think she was a kinder character towards Leonard. I also think I agree with 3k that if I watch a rerun of a show I would much rather watch seasons 1-3. i watch some 4-7. rarely season 8 and season 9 like tonight's episode was just cringe worthy. By your avatar your an Amy fan. Amy doesn't crack my top 5 characters on the show. She was better in season 4 but her purpose now is to be Sheldon's lap dog. As to the three girls moments together they are fine as the non major storyline hilarious is a bit of a stretch for me. As to one dimensional character Amy is the ultimate. how many times is she going to make that sad face? I do agree somewhat that they made some of the characters well rounded at least for a while. but that went out the window with Lenny living with Sheldon. What's the point of Amy now?

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3 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

I don't think Penny was a better or a worse character. It some ways she was one dimensional but so were the guys. But I also think she was a kinder character towards Leonard. I also think I agree with 3k that if I watch a rerun of a show I would much rather watch seasons 1-3. i watch some 4-7. rarely season 8 and season 9 like tonight's episode was just cringe worthy. By your avatar your an Amy fan. Amy doesn't crack my top 5 characters on the show. She was better in season 4 but her purpose now is to be Sheldon's lap dog. As to the three girls moments together they are fine as the non major storyline hilarious is a bit of a stretch for me. As to one dimensional character Amy is the ultimate. how many times is she going to make that sad face? I do agree somewhat that they made some of the characters well rounded at least for a while. but that went out the window with Lenny living with Sheldon. What's the point of Amy now?

Well the point to her character was to be Sheldon's Girlfriend, or how you eloquently put it His LapDog LOL. But after watching s9 finalie. She has become the repressed Girlfriend. Looking for the next lay. I mean she has reverted to mothering Sheldon. I am not having a go at Amy or Shamy. But this what I have observed. "Play with you Phone" "The Grown Up's are Talking". IF their is one thing in S10 that needws fixing, it is the disparity between the Shamy. IT is been 5 or 6 years? Why are they not equals yet. I know this is going to get a reaction. But it something I have noticed with Shamy for a while now. 

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4 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Well the point to her character was to be Sheldon's Girlfriend, or how you eloquently put it His LapDog LOL. But after watching s9 finalie. She has become the repressed Girlfriend. Looking for the next lay. I mean she has reverted to mothering Sheldon. I am not having a go at Amy or Shamy. But this what I have observed. "Play with you Phone" "The Grown Up's are Talking". IF their is one thing in S10 that needws fixing, it is the disparity between the Shamy. IT is been 5 or 6 years? Why are they not equals yet. I know this is going to get a reaction. But it something I have noticed with Shamy for a while now. 

The thing with their dynamic has always been that Amy was somewhat more socially aware than Sheldon and that he's accepting her guidance in such situations. It's been there since S4 and it will probably continue to be there until the end of the show. It has nothing to do with mothering him but simply helping him through such situations. Granted, the "play with your phone" gag wasn't my favourite either but I take that over Sheldon ruining Leonard's toast any day.

And to be honest, we see that kind of dynamic with the other couples as well. To this day Penny tells Leonard not to wear certain types of geeky clothes - down to a cute Hufflepuff cap when they were heading out to a cabin in the woods. What does it even matter what he's wearing there??? Likewise, Howardette have a bunch of storylines about how Howard needs to grow up, be it the finances or household chores or renovating his childhood house into a modern joint home for them. So it's really just a bit of the typical humour in this show. Amy basically signalling Sheldon to not disturb the toast is really not a big deal at all, all things considered.

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Sheldon has such control issues, that Amy always has to find a way to make it seem any change was really Sheldon's.  That has to be VERY tiring-just like she told him when she asked to take a small break for re-evaluation.

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http://www.ew.com/article/2016/07/22/big-bang-theory-comic-con-katey-sagal

Katey Sagal and Jack McBrayer are going to play Penny's mother and brother, respectively! :)

In the same article, it is mentioned that Penny COULD gain a cult following from Serial Apeist... An idea that's been thrown around among members of this site for awhile now. Also, Sheldon and Amy are to attend a national flag convention this season.

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/big-bang-theory-casts-katey-sagal-penny-mom-174648898.html

Katey Sagal's character is named 'Susan,' while Jack McBrayer will bring 'Randall' to life. Per the article and CBS, " Sagal will play Susan, who is described as stressed out and neurotic from a life with her troubled son. McBrayer will play Penny’s brother Randall, a cheerful former drug dealer and ex-con."

Edited by Kev0821
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I like very much the casting of Penny's mother. Katy Sagal is  very believable as Penny's mother and the two actresses have already worked together as mother and daughter. That sounds a fantastic idea to me! A little scared by Penny's brother as a drug dealer, we are worrying about the parents possibly creating some problems at Lenny redo with their fights, but after that I'd watch her brother too, LOL! 

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The other night I had a thought... wouldn't it have been perfect if Jason Ritter, John's son, had been cast as Penny's brother?  Not saying I'm objecting to the casting, just a random thought.

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