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[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10


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3 hours ago, wowbagger said:

We.....may need to agree to disagree on whether those things are equivalent. To me, there is a quite significant gear shift between saying 'I am amazing and you are with someone amazing. Worship my greatness.', and 'You are difficult and nobody else will put up with you'. Neither is ideal, sure, but one is more dangerous than the other. The closest, if you like, to that sort of sentiment comes from Sheldon's telling Amy that he is the flame to her moth. Which I would still argue is more Type 1 than Type 2. And....Amy's deeply unimpressed affect at that remark says it all, really. Whereas every time Amy's said that she's the best Sheldon can do, her hearers have seemed to take it seriously. In other words, Amy's 'nobody but me will ever want you' carries weight, in-show, whereas Sheldon's is clearly dismissed as delusion.

But Sheldon has perpetuated both "types" over the seasons. He has that "I am amazing and you are with someone amazing. Worship my greatness." attitude AND said to Amy's face "You are difficult and nobody else will put up with you". Repeatedly. Other than what you mentioned:

"I think I understand. You’re the one person who can say Sheldon Cooper is your boyfriend, but that rings hollow if you can’t lord him over others in the flesh. I forget what I bring to the party and what I take away when I leave." - 5x19

The whole "I like you, quirks and all" speech is riddled with this and then the scene ends on: "I don’t see anyone else banging on this door to put up with your nonsense. Not even a good-bye? You see, that’s the kind of thing that makes people think you’re weird." - 7x05

"Well, you should think fast, because men can sire offspring their entire lives, but those eggs you’re toting around have a sell-by date." - 9x01

"And then the Czech Republic says to Slovakia, I don’t think you understand how being broken up works. Can you believe that? You’d think that the Czech Republic would try to hold on to what it had, given that it’s not as young as it used to be. And I don’t see any other countries lining up to invade its southern borders." - 9x02

"I always looked up to you and Pop-Pop. I know what a challenging man he could be, but I saw you stand by him and make him into a better person. ... Yeah, well, that is exactly what I’ve been doing the last five years with this little work in progress." - 9x12

This is just off the top of my head. And don't tell me all those instances don't count for some reason. For the longest time he thinks he's the catch in this relationship and Amy should be thankful he is putting up with her. And he's telling her that straight away so much more often than Amy does the reverse, not to mention with the ugly side of "you're more invested in this relationship than I am" ("... mutual admiration that skews in my favour." - 6x10).

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As to Sheldon's threatening to break up with Amy over minor shit: which are these instances? Serious question. I know there's Table Polarisation (ugh, stupid episode), but where has Sheldon held the continuance of the relationship over Amy's head as conditional on her behaviour? My reading is that both Sheldon and the show have usually been quite explicit that Sheldon's issues are his issues. Especially as late as Season Eight. Unless you're referring to him pouting about Amy saying he's not perfect in 8X01? Which...come on now. And even if we're going to dignify that exchange as some sort of relationship power move from Sheldon, 'having a tantrum because you are not uncritically on my side' is also behaviour Amy displayed with Sheldon regarding her spat with Wil Wheaton, where she was furious with Sheldon because he didn't take her side - even though she was being monumentally unreasonable. AND Sheldon ultimately did battle to defend her honour (even though, again, Amy was clearly in the wrong there), whereas to the best of my recollection, in 801, Sheldon takes care that Amy doesn't even hear him pouting to Leonard that Amy hurt his feelings and he wants to break up. 

I'm talking about incidents like:

"You know, I must say I go back and forth on this boyfriend-girlfriend thing, but those moments when you worship me really keep you in the running." - 6x20

"I’d like your honest opinion on something. ... Now, before I start, I need you to know that I’m very excited about this, and anything you say that isn’t enthusiastically supportive will throw our entire relationship into question. So, keep an open mind." - 8x04

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As to Amy walking on eggshells around him in Season Eight: again, when was this? Amy in Season Eight was vexed at Sheldon (and could and should have been vexed-er, in my opinion, but that's another story) for his behaviour and told him so, melted when told how much her good opinion means to him and how afraid he is of failing in her eyes, and then spent quite a lot of the next few episodes strutting her stuff at being the popular girl, and joining with Sheldon in rejoicing over the 'more than hot. It's binding'-ness of the relationship agreement, and what hard work poor Lenny were. The only times that she has betrayed worry about the relationship (going by her fanfic) have to do with fearing to ask certain questions because she's afraid she might not like the answers. That suggests, not that she's afraid that Sheldon will leave her, but that they might not want the same things. In general, I would blink at any suggestion that the Amy of Season Eight was in any way timorous or fearful. Sheldon and Amy in Season Eight were communicating more clearly and respectfully than they had been in quite some time. Until that sodding finale. When, again, Amy showed no signs of being afraid that Sheldon would leave her (I mean, why should she?)

Amy has worried about Sheldon leaving her for a long time by now:

"But don’t tell Sheldon. He’s still a flight risk." 6x02

"I hope he's this distraught if he ever breaks up with me." - 7x20

That undoubtedly hasn't changed in S8, especially after his train stunt:

"Are you crazy? You know he’s a flight risk." - "That's what I told him." - 8x12

The whole drama of the Mars episode was fuelled by Amy's fear that Sheldon would just leave her for the next best thing - 8x17

All in all S8 is a rather mixed bag. Sure, they have some great heights (like when they fix the Mars blunder) but there are also plenty of things that bothered me a lot. Pre-8x08 Sheldon is still compartmentalising the hell out of the relationship and tries to deny any hint of hippie-dippiness. Amy is speaking up at times but at others she is walking on eggshells and uses the tools at her disposal. In general she has to reference the RA quite a bit to carefully remind Sheldon of his boyfriend duties - 8x03, 8x13, 8x20. Even the Fort episode bliss starts out with... Sheldon wanting to be rather somewhere else than with Amy. The evening gets saved after Amy manages to cheer him up but still when she suggests the sleepover it's played as her being very careful to not spook him. There's also the suggestions that what Amy is longing for is a proper sign of commitment in 8x03 with wishing that Sheldon would say something heartfelt more often, and more in depth with her fanfic in 8x15 as already mentioned by you. And of course 8x24 when she repeatedly gives him the opportunity to come up with something better than the Flash comment which he didn't.

So "have to do with fearing to ask certain questions because she's afraid she might not like the answers [...] that they might not want the same things." is exactly the kind of fear I'm talking about and I do think it is linked with the whole "flight risk" aspect - both in her fanfic when Cooper leaves and in her life when she has already gone through Sheldon just taking off and fearing he'll do it again if something upsets him. But this is putting a huge strain on her and eventually she's exhausted and needs a step back.

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In general, the show has taken considerable pains to show us that:

a ) Amy has romantic options who are not Sheldon, and

b ) Amy is willing to exercise those options, whereas Sheldon has eyes for nobody else.

That is an inherent power imbalance, right there. And the show has also taken considerable pains to show us that Sheldon went to pieces after Amy broke up with him, while Amy seemed more or less okay. That reinforces the power imbalance. Is that Amy's fault? Of course not. But does it mean that we should be wary when Amy reminds Sheldon of the imbalance? I am.

Seeing as prior it was a running theme of Amy being painted as the undesirable one that should be glad that Sheldon is dating her (see quotations above) I think establishing these things were done to reinstate a more balanced relationship here. In fact there were two scales that needed to be addressed:

On one hand Sheldon has had a bunch of women swooning over him over the years and he can pick up women and men (!) without even trying. While it surely is questionable that any of those attempts would have ended in a successful relationship he has options in terms of dating. Heck, even Amy's most promising date in form of Dave would probably go with Sheldon in a heartbeat! So no, the idea of Sheldon having options doesn't really need to be addressed as in depth because it's been a running gag in the show for many years.

The other scale that needed to be balanced out was the "mutual admiration in my favour" one when Amy seemed to be so much more into this relationship than Sheldon. So his side of the breakup was all about him discovering how much Amy truly means to him.

That was the imbalance before and it now has been fixed. Both have options but both are together because they want to.

Also, Amy never used her dating success as a leverage over Sheldon. Where did you get that idea from?

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As to Sheldon's behaviour in Spoiler Alert: I'm not saying Sheldon's right there. Or let me rephrase: once again, I think his reservations are completely valid. But he is expressing them, as you say, dishonestly. So I do not remotely blame Amy for ripping up at him. But there is a difference between saying

a ) You are a cowardly, prevaricating sack of shit

even b ) You are a cowardly, prevaricating sack of shit, and I am DONE with you

and c ) I am the best you can do.

A huge difference, in my eyes.

But there's context to her "I am the best you can do" rant namely that during the whole thing she _is_ doing her best. She's basically auditioning to become Best Roommate Ever and when he's turning her down she's worried that it's because she did something wrong. And Sheldon has to admit she did everything right and that's when she's all "Why is that not good enough?!?" cause Amy has her own insecurities, no doubt fuelled by plenty of casual remarks made by Sheldon over time. And fearing rejection because Sheldon has these impossible high standards is surely one of them. Again, context is important. Also, she calls him a coward after finally finding out what the issue is. So all's well that ends well!

Edited by April
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On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 7:04 AM, April said:

And I think that she really doesn't. The girl has a few moments of very understandable frustration and using that against her feels rather unfair towards the character as if she's not allowed to feel that way and how dare she not be grateful for every scrap of attention she gets from Sheldon!? I really don't think she sees herself as a martyr or saint or whatever just because she's frustrated that Sheldon is making their progress needlessly difficult by putting up a silly fight about every little thing.* It is exhausting which led to their breakup in the first place.

*Emphasis on "little" here cause contrary to popular fandom wisdom she really doesn't make many demands beyond just wanting to have a good time with Sheldon so his resistance on that level is a bit ridiculous. On the big issues she is very much respecting his slow progress and gives him the time and space he needs.** I mean, the most aggressive bigger move she made was probably the attempt to move in during S6 and even then she respected Sheldon's boundaries with regards to his intimacy issues in that she didn't demand to share his room with him but rather that she'd move into Leonard's room - a scenario that apparently she still thought would happen in 10x04, hence her surprise when Sheldon agreed to stay with her in Penny's one-bedroom apartment instead.

** And even with that she isn't flaunting this as something that deserves a medal. It's usually other characters who do that by insisting that their relationship is somehow wrong for its slow progress on the physical aspects and they're treating Amy like this suffering girlfriend they have to pity because Sheldon is just "the worst". So in result she gets complimented on how she's managing Sheldon and being to patient with him. Like, take Alfred complimenting her on her patience for waiting so long to even hold hands with Sheldon while she's all "It was a lot hotter than it sounds." I honestly don't think she minds their slow progress that much as long as Sheldon isn't an ass about it - which he frequently was in the past. Thankfully a lot less now after the breakup and his change of heart. There are remnants of it surfacing every once in a while that elicit a "dude, can you not?!?" reaction from her but I guess that'll mellow out over time as well. The next episode in particular seems to be a bit of a breakthrough on that front.

I get what you are saying and you make valid points I can and do agree with.   I want to clarify that I do not have a problem at all with Amy's patience over the slow progress of the relationship or Sheldon wanting to hold out on coitus.

My issue is that I just cannot seem to get over Amy's line to Meemaw that she is Sheldon's best shot.   In the S9 Finale, she tells Sheldon to look at his phone several times.  I get the purpose was to distract Sheldon from making a big deal about the discussions going on around him, but it felt too much to me like sending a child to their room.   Then later on, when Sheldon makes a false assumption about what is going on between Mary and Alfred at the dinner table, she remarks with sarcasm "What would I ever do without you or something to that affect?"  Later she tries to interject between Mary and Sheldon to tell Sheldon what she thinks he should feel about the matter.

It just seems to me sometimes that Amy feels entitled to constantly remind Sheldon that he is the one being thoughtless, inconsiderate, and difficult not only toward her but others.  For instance, she insists Sheldon learn to apologize, but she didn't see a need to apologize for lying to him about extending her stay in Detroit.   Sheldon does wrong and he must make amends.   Amy does wrong, but it's considered right because she's dealing with Sheldon?

I wholeheartedly believe Amy loves Sheldon, but she never lets him forget the sacrifices she makes to be in the relationship or that she has to jump in and defend others from his commentary/actions.   How many times do we hear "Sheldon!" from Amy while Sheldon defends his stance.

I would feel a whole lot better if she would acknowledge the sacrifices and hurt feelings Sheldon has also had to endure to be in a relationship with her.   It just all seems so one-sided to me where it is Sheldon's flaws that are constantly in the spotlight, while Amy is portrayed to be the one who is justified for all her actions and anger toward him.   

Take the break up.   She ended it with Sheldon.   Months later with little to no communication with Sheldon over what went wrong, she wants to get back together.   She tells Bernadette that Sheldon shot her down, and that is the reason she is going out on another date with Dave.    Everything she does counter to her relationship with Sheldon and all her suffering, it is always his fault.   She accepts no accountability for her part in the communication failures between them, nor do we ever hear her apologize to Sheldon for the pain he suffered in the break up.

Amy is the one that begged Sheldon to go along with Lenny's idea to live together, even calling it an experiment to win Sheldon's favor toward it.   After one bad night, she wants to quit.    Sheldon was justified in questioning her integrity as a scientist, after all, it was her idea.    Instead of seeing it the way Sheldon does and apologizing, she defends herself and in essence tells Sheldon that her scientific methods produce far better results than his.   Damn!!!!

I'm not justifying all of Sheldon's crazy behavior.   He is extremely difficult, and it does take a saint with a great deal of patience to handle him.   However, if you love someone, I don't think it is in one's best interest to constantly point out how that person is lucky to have him/her because they are the best they've got.   One false step that pushes that person's patience beyond the point of no return, and he/she threatens to walk.     Amy has shown she can do it.   Here she is again threatening to quit a very important step before it's barely begun. I'd hate to think Sheldon has to constantly worry if Amy will leave because of who he is, even when the difficulty caused by him is unintentional.

Is Sheldon without any blame?   Not at all, but give the guy some credit for what he has accomplished and still trying to accomplish instead of constantly harping on everything he doesn't get right.   Amy has done a heck of a lot of accommodating for Sheldon, but he has come a long way on her behalf as well.

Edited by jenafan
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We  all know that Sheldon and Amy are very complex people. Quirky, lonely, stuborn are some of the traits they have and even we dont know much of Amy s background, for what she has been told , her childhood and teenager times  were not easy as his were not easy either. So has not been easy their interactions with other people in  their grown age.

Sheldon is a difficult person for all things you all have been poiting out but Amy is not less. What I think they are reallly diferent of each other is about empathy with others, that Sheldon is finnaly having progress. The others traits, the show gets focus naturally on Sheldon's for he is one of the main characters but Amy s quirks and issues could make a show about her as well. That s why they are the perfect match after all.

What I am trying to say is Sheldon should make Amy to feel she is not easy either as he knows he is not to her in some situations and I think it could happen during their la expetiment, if it is not happen yet.

I have no doubt that they really love each other ( 200%)  but as Sheldon said well in 10.01 that Amy was not his mother, Amy needs to loosen up of that kind of obligation that Sheldon needs guidance about some things or lets take the pressure off before he might freaking out.  I think it is what is lacking for their comunication realy improve and that is really much better, especially in their talks. I think we saw a bit of that in the science diss between them. Amy was into give up of experiment for one bad night and Sheldon instead of let her go , as he would do in past, he fought back. The day that Sheldon during a fight with Amy , he can be as open about any issue between them as he was about that science diss in ep4, their relationship finaly get in a more stable state.

I believe they will be more grown emotionaly after the la experiment ends. Ups and downs they will always  have and their flaws wont disappear. They even might live separated again after the end of these 5 weeks. But I believe when they decide to make it permanent, both will honestly express their wishes and there will no more feelings hidden in comunication issues.

Edited by spidergirl
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A lot of these complaints stem from stuff that happened a long time back but let's see how they fare from now onwards. Both have made huge steps forward with this living situation opportunity but both are also finding it a little difficult right now trying to adjust as its such a big deal to both of them. I think we should be reserving some judgement until the end outcome of the experiment as well especially when it comes to who may have compromised more, who may have budged, who may have been more stubborn or less inflexible etc.

Like @spidergirl said this is a pretty complex couple of individuals in a complex at times relationship. You can question the pace sometimes termed by Jim as 'glacial' lol but they are moving in the right direction imo, their relationship is growing and they do clearly love each other. They have a great set of friends who love and care for them and are trying to do all they can to help them along.

Both have their faults, both have quirks, both can be really fucking stubborn, both have fucked up at times, both have had to make compromises but both love each other and want their relationship to work. They have come a long way but still have a way to go yet.

Edited by Jonny
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1 hour ago, spidergirl said:

We  all know that Sheldon and Amy are very complex people. Quirky, lonely, stuborn are some of the traits they have and even we dont know much of Amy s background, for what she has been told , her childhood and teenager times  were not easy as his were not easy either. So has not been easy their interactions with other people in  their grown age.

Sheldon is a difficult person for all things you all have been poiting out but Amy is not less. What I think they are reallly diferent of each other is about empathy with others, that Sheldon is finnaly having progress. The others traits, the show gets focus naturally on Sheldon's for he is one of the main characters but Amy s quirks and issues could make a show about her as well. That s why they are the perfect match after all.

What I am trying to say is Sheldon should make Amy to feel she is not easy either as he knows he is not to her in some situations and I think it could happen during their la expetiment, if it is not happen yet.

I have no doubt that they really love each other ( 200%)  but as Sheldon said well in 10.01 that Amy was not his mother, Amy needs to loosen up of that kind of obligation that Sheldon needs guidance about some things or lets take the pressure off before he might freaking out.  I think it is what is lacking for their comunication realy improve and that is really much better, especially in their talks. I think we saw a bit of that in the science diss between them. Amy was into give up of experiment for one bad night and Sheldon instead of let her go , as he would do in past, he fought back. The day that Sheldon during a fight with Amy , he can be as open about any issue between them as he was about that science diss in ep4, their relationship finaly get in a more stable state.

I believe they will be more grown emotionaly after the la experiment ends. Ups and downs they will always  have and their flaws wont disappear. They even might live separated again after the end of these 5 weeks. But I believe when they decide to make it permanent, both will honestly express their wishes and there will no more feelings hidden in comunication issues.

I can definitely agree that Shamy and Amy living together could result in them maturing quite a bit. Of course, Sheldon will still be Sheldon, and Amy will always be Amy. They'll have their quirks and will continue to have them for years and years and years. And frankly, while I'm sure many people may disagree with me, living with your significant other is extremely different than living with a roommate or even a dear friend. Especially if the new living arrangement could result in marriage (and with Sheldon having that ring, he falls into that category.)

Unlike with Leonard or any other of his failed roommate prior to Leonard, Sheldon's rules were the end all be all. Follow them or else there will be consequences. With Amy.. or especially with Amy... she has been known to push Sheldon out of his comfort zone. Sometimes she convinces him to step out of that comfortable little box of his and I'm 99.999% sure that's what happening on and off screen. I'm sure Amy is okay with some rules like the thermostat or no music after all certain time, etc... But there are somethings that Amy won't budge on and for good reason.

She isn't his roommate, she is his significant other. And when they marry, they'll be living together 'til death do them part. They need to learn to give and take in order to live together peacefully and comfortably. While many friends are willing to put up with his eccentricities, Amy isn't about to because she knows that relationships are a push and pull and wants Sheldon to learn the same without completely changing him (which can easily be done).

She's basically willing to give up some of her freedom to adjust the thermostat or not listen to the latest album of her favorite band at 10pm (just examples), but Sheldon better be willing to give up that bathroom schedule and toothbrush holder. Ya know? 

Edited by ShamyBabboos
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1 hour ago, Jonny said:

A lot of these complaints stem from stuff that happened a long time back but let's see how they fare from now onwards. Both have made huge steps forward with this living situation opportunity but both are also finding it a little difficult right now trying to adjust as its such a big deal to both of them. I think we should be reserving some judgement until the end outcome of the experiment as well especially when it comes to who may have compromised more, who may have budged, who may have been more stubborn or less inflexible etc.

Like @spidergirl said this is a pretty complex couple of individuals in a complex at times relationship. You can question the pace sometimes termed by Jim as 'glacial' lol but they are moving in the right direction imo, their relationship is growing and they do clearly love each other. They have a great set of friends who love and care for them and are trying to do all they can to help them along.

Both have their faults, both have quirks, both can be really fucking stubborn, both have fucked up at times, both have had to make compromises but both love each other and want their relationship to work. They have come a long way but still have a way to go yet.

Yes , they are both complex,  both have quirks and both have flaws.  But a disproportionately large number of times, it is only Sheldon's flaws/wrongs  that are highlighted in the show by the writers. In how many scenarios is Amy shown to be in the wrong or being unreasonable, where she has to apologize to Sheldon or where Sheldon is shown to be right ? Very few compared to the former.

Seems to me, only Sheldon is flawed. He is the one who always has to do the learning and growing.  It is always-

 Sheldon is wrong, Sheldon is unreasonable, Sheldon is difficult, Sheldon screws up, Sheldon apologizes, and.........Sheldon becomes a 'better man'....and it goes again and again and again.

And again.

It is the one sidedness that is so annoying and repetitive. It is like Groundhog Day. And it leaves me banging my head against the wall.  Next episode(10.05) will be the same.Bottom line :If one person in the relationship is always in the right and the other is always in the wrong, it is difficult for me to root for them as a couple or enjoy the comedy .

But I agree, right now, we can only look forward as this discussion has reached a saturation for me.

Edited by serena_1995
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13 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

I agree that, surprise brunch or not, it would have made so much sense to have Raj part of this plot. Both Sheldon and Amy have very little experience in organizing gatherings (Amy's Victorian Christmas wasn't a huge success, was it?) so that could have been a good opportunity to have Kunal doing something different than being the putative father of Bernie's baby. On the other hand, maybe the deliberate choice by the writers to have the other guys doing something completely different has a very specific meaning and it's organic to Shamy plot...I don't know, perhaps, as we were thinking at the very beginning, they are running an experiment and don't want to deal with people they are too comfortable with, or perhaps (if that's indeed a surprise Sheldon organizes) he doesn't want to show his friends his "romantic" side. Because, I assume, we can all agree that, if Sheldon takes upon himself to organize the brunch, that counts as a romantic gesture...he is a hippy basically!

I would like to see Raj helping Sheldon and Amy too. It would make really sense as I think Raj and Sheldon sometimes turn to be  funny partners. I am remembering when they worked togeher and Sheldon found the asteroid or earlier  when they worked in that experiment they were close in a small space (dont remember the right season it was). It  would be refresh in Raj s front indeed and  a good chance for he shows his talent for party gathering.

I want badly some kind of gift storyline for Raj. Kunal deserved better than he has at moment in the show.

Edited by spidergirl
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I agree with spidergirl, Raj and Sheldon are great together and I do think that Raj and Amy could be really good friends. Also, in my mind Raj is a Shamy shipper. Don't ask me why, but I think Raj had more to do with Shamy meeting than Howard AND he's a hopeless romantic so I'm sure he thinks they have a meet cute story and he'd probably tell his kids about them someday. Raj is totally -chants- one of us, one of us.

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All those "Raj helps Sheldon with the brunch" story ideas are great but we already know he'll be off with Howard doing baby stuff. So while I'd love it and there's probably the chance for a surprise since we know so little I'm not holding my breath for that to happen. :C

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12 minutes ago, April said:

All those "Raj helps Sheldon with the brunch" story ideas are great but we already know he'll be off with Howard doing baby stuff. So while I'd love it and there's probably the chance for a surprise since we know so little I'm not holding my breath for that to happen. :C

Oh, yes, absolutely, the TR is very clear, there will be no surprises on that respect. But (without knowing anything about the episode, so I'm sure as I said there's an explanation to it) I still think that was kind of a missed opportunity to mix things up a bit and to have Raj doing something different. His character needs that, really it's a shame he is relegated to spend the day buying baby stuff with Howaerdette....Plus, I like when in the show there are unlikely pairings, they create more variety. But then again, what's more "different" and unlikely than Shamy hosting a brunch? LOL!

Edited by mirs1
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"Then its them eating dinner talking about whether they want a boy or girl they agree they want a little girl so girly animals help her get dressed."

This was in the taping report but not in the Cohabitation Experimentation broadcast episode. It's why I like T.R.s - there's often something more to tell. I do hope we get one this week plus a more detailed one for 10.06 if they show it to the audience.

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From Glamour

Here's an Exclusive First Look at Bernadette's Baby Bump on The Big Bang Theory

It's been eight months (in real time) since Bernadette found out she was expecting onThe Big Bang Theory, but it wasn't until last week's episode that viewers finally got a glimpse of her burgeoning baby bump. So, at that rate, we're looking at baby Rostenkowski-Wolowitz sometime in 2019, right? It's safe to say that even Sheldon might have trouble figuring out the math on that one.

But now it seems Bernadette's pregnancy is right on track—based on these exclusive first look photos from tonight's new episode, Bernadette may be at around six months pregnant. "I think it will be this year," executive producer Steve Molaro told us regarding Bernadette's due date. Whether he means the 2016 calendar year or the 10th season of Big Bang (which runs until May 2017) remains to be seen. Still, he says, "We're trying to keep it vaguely chronologically correct." That potentially means a delivery date in time for New Year's Eve.....(more in the link)

 

tbbt.jpg

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1 hour ago, vonmar said:

From Glamour

Here's an Exclusive First Look at Bernadette's Baby Bump on The Big Bang Theory

It's been eight months (in real time) since Bernadette found out she was expecting onThe Big Bang Theory, but it wasn't until last week's episode that viewers finally got a glimpse of her burgeoning baby bump. So, at that rate, we're looking at baby Rostenkowski-Wolowitz sometime in 2019, right? It's safe to say that even Sheldon might have trouble figuring out the math on that one.

But now it seems Bernadette's pregnancy is right on track—based on these exclusive first look photos from tonight's new episode, Bernadette may be at around six months pregnant. "I think it will be this year," executive producer Steve Molaro told us regarding Bernadette's due date. Whether he means the 2016 calendar year or the 10th season of Big Bang (which runs until May 2017) remains to be seen. Still, he says, "We're trying to keep it vaguely chronologically correct." That potentially means a delivery date in time for New Year's Eve.....(more in the link)

 

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Looks like there are some sweet Howardette scenes in tonight's episode. :)

Enjoying this somewhat fresh storyline and I would imagine both Simon and Melissa are finding it interesting. Would like to see an interview with them at some point in the coming weeks to see how they are finding it.

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On 10/15/2016 at 8:57 PM, April said:

But Sheldon has perpetuated both "types" over the seasons. He has that "I am amazing and you are with someone amazing. Worship my greatness." attitude AND said to Amy's face "You are difficult and nobody else will put up with you". Repeatedly. Other than what you mentioned:

"I think I understand. You’re the one person who can say Sheldon Cooper is your boyfriend, but that rings hollow if you can’t lord him over others in the flesh. I forget what I bring to the party and what I take away when I leave." - 5x19

The whole "I like you, quirks and all" speech is riddled with this and then the scene ends on: "I don’t see anyone else banging on this door to put up with your nonsense. Not even a good-bye? You see, that’s the kind of thing that makes people think you’re weird." - 7x05

"Well, you should think fast, because men can sire offspring their entire lives, but those eggs you’re toting around have a sell-by date." - 9x01

"And then the Czech Republic says to Slovakia, I don’t think you understand how being broken up works. Can you believe that? You’d think that the Czech Republic would try to hold on to what it had, given that it’s not as young as it used to be. And I don’t see any other countries lining up to invade its southern borders." - 9x02

"I always looked up to you and Pop-Pop. I know what a challenging man he could be, but I saw you stand by him and make him into a better person. ... Yeah, well, that is exactly what I’ve been doing the last five years with this little work in progress." - 9x12

This is just off the top of my head. And don't tell me all those instances don't count for some reason. For the longest time he thinks he's the catch in this relationship and Amy should be thankful he is putting up with her. And he's telling her that straight away so much more often than Amy does the reverse, not to mention with the ugly side of "you're more invested in this relationship than I am" ("... mutual admiration that skews in my favour." - 6x10).

I'll give you 9X01 and 9X02. Ugh, that breakup. 

The 7X05 speech I already quoted before and sitpulate.

And 9X12 is literally just him saying that Amy isn't perfect. Which...you know, she is not? And, mind you, this in a context where he is facing down one of the (if not the) most important women in his formative years for Amy. A reciprocal demonstration that the show has never allowed Amy, incidentally.

6X10 and 5X19 I still see as Sheldon being insufferably arrogant, rather than in any way insinuating that Amy is worthless/romantically handicapped. In fact, the Thanksgiving aquarium episode has Sheldon explicitly complimenting Amy on having men lining up for her. A compliment that, again, the show hasn't really had Amy give Sheldon (genitalia complimenting not quite being the same as an explicit validation of romantic worth to other women). In fact, Amy tends to roll her eyes at any airs Sheldon may give himself about his own sexual appeal (see: 7X05 and her reaction to the 'moth and flame' comment, her deadpan snark in 10X04 about his underwear getting her motor running, her cheerful lackadaisicality about Shenny gazing into each other's eyes in Intimacy etc.). Which is absolutely fine, but once again - to my mind - drives home the point that there is a power imbalance in the relationship: Amy has options which she has exercised, and Sheldon doesn't. It is not a power imbalance that Amy exploits (and I never said she did), but yes, there is one.

On 10/15/2016 at 8:57 PM, April said:

 

"You know, I must say I go back and forth on this boyfriend-girlfriend thing, but those moments when you worship me really keep you in the running." - 6x20

"I’d like your honest opinion on something. ... Now, before I start, I need you to know that I’m very excited about this, and anything you say that isn’t enthusiastically supportive will throw our entire relationship into question. So, keep an open mind." - 8x04

6X20: Insufferable, yes, but I think we're really reaching here to call that extortion: as in, behave this way in order to keep me in your life.

8X04: Going with our apparent presumption that Sheldon's allowed no exaggeration or levity ever, you really don't think that this could be Sheldon saying 'this is really important to me and if you say no, we may not be as well suited as I thought'? No? Okay then.

On 10/15/2016 at 8:57 PM, April said:

 

Amy has worried about Sheldon leaving her for a long time by now:

"But don’t tell Sheldon. He’s still a flight risk." 6x02

"I hope he's this distraught if he ever breaks up with me." - 7x20

That undoubtedly hasn't changed in S8, especially after his train stunt:

"Are you crazy? You know he’s a flight risk." - "That's what I told him." - 8x12

The whole drama of the Mars episode was fuelled by Amy's fear that Sheldon would just leave her for the next best thing - 8x17

Okay, I think some of this might stem from treating Sheldon's Awfully Big Train Adventure as a rejection of Amy specifically. Which is not how I read it. Sheldon had been going through a drawn-out existential crisis for much of the season, he'd just incorporated regular demonstrations of physical affection into his life and he was working through the death of a proto-father figure. He was distraught before he went to Amy and she suggested another massive change (for which, frankly, neither was ready). He blew up at her and said dreadful things, certainly, but he was running away from everything, not just Amy. 

And my God, girl, you are just a cornucopia of lines (from both Sheldon and Amy) that I have been trying, with the help of heavy drinking, to forget! I wanted to smash my TV screen when I saw Amy - the brilliant and gifted scientist - look at her boyfriend's career crisis and piss and whine about how he wuved science more than her. Oh, hang on - that goes into my 'Amy guilts Sheldon' column!

Oh, and I have to disagree about the Mars thing. She puts it explicitly in the context of the purchase of Giuseppe (bring back Giuseppe!), if I remember well. Which suggests to me that Sheldon's thoughtlessness hurt her explicitly because she thought that they were making decisions as a couple, but apparently Sheldon was still acting without making a place in his decision-making process for her as his girlfriend. That's not a fear of being left behind, to me: that is (completely justifiable) anger at not being respected.

On 10/15/2016 at 8:57 PM, April said:

All in all S8 is a rather mixed bag. Sure, they have some great heights (like when they fix the Mars blunder) but there are also plenty of things that bothered me a lot. Pre-8x08 Sheldon is still compartmentalising the hell out of the relationship and tries to deny any hint of hippie-dippiness. Amy is speaking up at times but at others she is walking on eggshells and uses the tools at her disposal. In general she has to reference the RA quite a bit to carefully remind Sheldon of his boyfriend duties - 8x03, 8x13, 8x20. Even the Fort episode bliss starts out with... Sheldon wanting to be rather somewhere else than with Amy. The evening gets saved after Amy manages to cheer him up but still when she suggests the sleepover it's played as her being very careful to not spook him. There's also the suggestions that what Amy is longing for is a proper sign of commitment in 8x03 with wishing that Sheldon would say something heartfelt more often, and more in depth with her fanfic in 8x15 as already mentioned by you. And of course 8x24 when she repeatedly gives him the opportunity to come up with something better than the Flash comment which he didn't.

So "have to do with fearing to ask certain questions because she's afraid she might not like the answers [...] that they might not want the same things." is exactly the kind of fear I'm talking about and I do think it is linked with the whole "flight risk" aspect - both in her fanfic when Cooper leaves and in her life when she has already gone through Sheldon just taking off and fearing he'll do it again if something upsets him. But this is putting a huge strain on her and eventually she's exhausted and needs a step back.

Well, Sheldon isn't a sonnet type. What he is, is an asteroid-naming type. Again, a reciprocal gesture has been denied Amy. 

I loved 8X03, and his crisp '8.03. Trust me, you're happy' to Amy, precisely because I read it as Sheldon - for once - actually taking a stand for his conception of what makes a relationship strong. Amy looked at Leonard making a pretty speech to a Penny worrying about issues in their relationship, and immediately seized on the shadow - the pretty speech. Sheldon reminded her of the substance.

I don't read the blanket fort episode at all as Amy not wanting to spook Sheldon. I thought they fell into almost season-five-esque crisp negotiate-y speech patterns. Amy called Sheldon out on his rudeness, felt for him, and suggested something to make him feel better. There was no suggestion, to me, of her being timid or fearful.

And I'm a little bit amused at the show's narrative perennially being 'That brute Sheldon keeps ruining poor Amy's evening with his real-life shit', rather than at least a little bit of the time the narrative being 'That insensitive cow Amy keeps harping on about her hearts and flowers crap when Sheldon's going through real-life shit'. Neither, I hasten to add, is a fair characterisation. I would vastly prefer it if the show, for example, allowed Amy to be the one ruining date night because her experiment was contaminated by confounding variables. Ah well. Maybe sometime soon.

And 8X24: sigh. Let's see, Sheldon says an innocuous dumb thing during a make-out, Amy flies off the handle and instead of asking him flat-out whether he desires her, spits out some vaguely-worded, passive-aggressive piffle about 'pace' that Sheldon hasn't a hope in hell of understanding - and how in the world would he? What even was there to understand except 'Let's get the Lenny plot jump-started, and God alone knows Lenny can't take a single decision without Sheldon involved in some way'?

On 10/15/2016 at 8:57 PM, April said:

Seeing as prior it was a running theme of Amy being painted as the undesirable one that should be glad that Sheldon is dating her (see quotations above) I think establishing these things were done to reinstate a more balanced relationship here. In fact there were two scales that needed to be addressed:

On one hand Sheldon has had a bunch of women swooning over him over the years and he can pick up women and men (!) without even trying. While it surely is questionable that any of those attempts would have ended in a successful relationship he has options in terms of dating. Heck, even Amy's most promising date in form of Dave would probably go with Sheldon in a heartbeat! So no, the idea of Sheldon having options doesn't really need to be addressed as in depth because it's been a running gag in the show for many years.

The other scale that needed to be balanced out was the "mutual admiration in my favour" one when Amy seemed to be so much more into this relationship than Sheldon. So his side of the breakup was all about him discovering how much Amy truly means to him.

That was the imbalance before and it now has been fixed. Both have options but both are together because they want to.

Also, Amy never used her dating success as a leverage over Sheldon. Where did you get that idea from?

....Was Amy painted as the undesirable one? She's had Stuart and Bert wanting to go out with her. Sheldon's arrogant and he's her boyfriend, but Amy knows she looks good in her bridesmaid's dress, loves her tiara and (prior to the fragrant post-coitus dynamics of Season Nine) there is no suggestion that Amy lacks either romantic or sexual worth. And certainly Sheldon specifically has never, ever, ever by word or gesture hinted that his motor might run faster if Amy were more more conventionally attractive. Ever.

As to Sheldon's options: but that's precisely the point. They are not options to Sheldon. He never registered the women or men who wanted him, and after the breakup, he turned down Vanessa for the flimsiest of reasons because she lacked a certain...Amyness. Amy, on the other hand, had gone on dates with (at least) Dave, who clearly pleased her enough to exchange casual kisses with him. And we still don't know what would have happened if Sheldon hadn't parked his white horse at the door and stormed her date. We can assume (for the sake of our own stomach linings) that she'd have given him his conge, but we simply don't know. Of course Amy has options - options that she was visibly considering on two separate occasions before Sheldon burst onto the scene. Does she prefer Sheldon? Sure. But the point is that, at least so far, Sheldon only has eyes for Amy, while Amy would prefer to be with Sheldon. A key difference.

On 10/15/2016 at 8:57 PM, April said:

But there's context to her "I am the best you can do" rant namely that during the whole thing she _is_ doing her best. She's basically auditioning to become Best Roommate Ever and when he's turning her down she's worried that it's because she did something wrong. And Sheldon has to admit she did everything right and that's when she's all "Why is that not good enough?!?" cause Amy has her own insecurities, no doubt fuelled by plenty of casual remarks made by Sheldon over time. And fearing rejection because Sheldon has these impossible high standards is surely one of them. Again, context is important. Also, she calls him a coward after finally finding out what the issue is. So all's well that ends well!

"no doubt fuelled by plenty of casual remarks made by Sheldon over time"?

Look, I'm sorry, but this really sounds like headcanon. What we see on screen is Amy diligently trying to level up in the Girlfriend Challenge, and getting furious when the promised prize - moving in - isn't forthcoming. Of course Sheldon is a nightmare, and of course he should have been upfront with her from the beginning, but there is plenty of raw material on screen for Amy's tirade, without needing to cast her as the victim of intense interpolated offscreen quasi-emotional abuse. 

And the narrative of Amy fearing rejection from Sheldon is also something that puzzles me. Not least because both the show and Sheldon have always made it plain that Sheldon's issues around touch and germs are his own issues and nothing to do with Amy, and that, in fact, he has overridden a lot of them for Amy and Amy alone. Plus: if Sheldon's behaviour is (consciously or not) supposed to be making Amy fearful or withdrawn or cowed, he....needs to up his game. Because what we've gotten on-screen from Amy is that she thinks she's The Shit (and, you know, why the hell not?) She might want to participate in female bonding rituals like sex talk with her friends, and be super over the moon when she finally gets to do so, but we have no evidence from Amy's own mouth to suggest that she thinks she's less than desirable, let alone that Sheldon's behaviour has made her feel that way.

But look, this thread has already had (more than) sufficient of this subject. And the trailers for the upcoming episode suggest I'd better keep some of my bile in reserve. So: on to the next controversy!

Edited by wowbagger
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12 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

[snip]

So in short, what I got from this is that anything Sheldon does can be explained away with the whole "Sheldon will be Sheldon" angle, while Amy isn't allowed that luxury? Gotcha!

I mean, look, I love Sheldon just as much as the next... Sheldon fan, I guess, and I'll happily defend the guy with putting his lines in context. And digging out all those lines wasn't to paint him as the worst guy ever but simply because you asked for them because you purging them from your memory with plenty of alcohol was apparently pretty effective. And no matter how many variants of "it's just Sheldon being Sheldon!" you write down the point remains that he has said some terrible things over the years, things that are sometimes pretty hard to excuse.

And as said, I like Sheldon and I could (and I did!) write plenty of those excuses myself. But I will do the same with Amy. Just like many of Sheldon's lines, I do think her actions and feelings make a lot of sense in context of what is happening on screen without using some head canon scenario of her having some sort of nefarious motives here. That's all.

12 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

But look, this thread has already had (more than) sufficient of this subject. And the trailers for the upcoming episode suggest I'd better keep some of my bile in reserve. So: on to the next controversy!

The rest of the people in this thread right now, probably:

TBBTughhh.gif

LOL

Looking forward to new topics of discussion! :D

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I loved the way Leonard sympathised with Amy while encouraging her to persevere :  'Who got him to put something other than gloves in the glove compartment ?'  and she glowed. She looked comfortable in Sheldon's spot too.

From the conversation in the car with Penny it seems a number of nights have passed since 10.04. amy obviously manages to stay in the bed if she can breathe on Sheldon.

Edited by joyceraye
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