[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[veejay]

3 minutes ago, JE7 said:

Sorry guys I forgot one

Watch out! 

[Kathy2611]

2 hours ago, FileXxX said:

Given that they don't, and TPTB don't seem to care, it's pretty obvious that this is not part of the contract. It's the actor's choice.

Nothing on a Chuck Lorre show is ever the actors choice.  I've mentioned this before but there was a special of some kind honoring CL and they were interviewing 14 of the actors from his various shows (including the main 7 from BBT).  One of the questions had to do with whether any of the actors ever improvised their lines or changed anything.  I thought it was interesting how they ALL reacted.  In unison all 14 said no in a way that made me think they wouldn't dare even attempt it.

[BigBang15]

Just my opinion, but I took the Amy taking coitus off the table (to convince Sheldon to try the experiment) as her saying just because they'll live together, coitus is not required nor expected. It wasn't a STOP - NO COITUS HERE declaration. It could happen anytime if both parties agree.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Kathy2611 said:

Nothing on a Chuck Lorre show is ever the actors choice.  I've mentioned this before but there was a special of some kind honoring CL and they were interviewing 14 of the actors from his various shows (including the main 7 from BBT).  One of the questions had to do with whether any of the actors ever improvised their lines or changed anything.  I thought it was interesting how they ALL reacted.  In unison all 14 said no in a way that made me think they wouldn't dare even attempt it.

If you look at the countless paparazzi photos of Kaley kissing another man, you can see that this is exactly how she kisses on screen. That's why I'm 100% certain it's their choice. Given that kissing is usually very intimate, I'm sure the actors have a say in this or they specifically stated what they're willing to do or not when they signed the contract. If they signed a contract that says they have to french kiss every time, it would be different. I doubt they did though.

People thinking that TPTB purposely make Sheldon and Amy's kissing scenes look awkward amuse me. I think this is just how Jim and Mayim kiss. End of the story.

[vonmar]

1 hour ago, Kathy2611 said:

Nothing on a Chuck Lorre show is ever the actors choice.  I've mentioned this before but there was a special of some kind honoring CL and they were interviewing 14 of the actors from his various shows (including the main 7 from BBT).  One of the questions had to do with whether any of the actors ever improvised their lines or changed anything.  I thought it was interesting how they ALL reacted.  In unison all 14 said no in a way that made me think they wouldn't dare even attempt it.

There is a difference between ad libbing and making an acting choice.  The cast has said that they would never ad lib, but they make acting choices all of the time.  At Comic Con several years ago, Jim described the classic S/P Christmas "napkin scene" .   He said that in the script for the scene when he opened the box there was a line of dialogue and the word (surprised), then another line of dialogue and the word (stunned), then another line of dialogue and the word (crazed).   The writers tell the actors what they want and then the actors "go for it".  The director is there to either ask them for more or to rein them in.  But it is the actors job to interpret the words into action.

[Jonny]

5 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

If you look at the countless paparazzi photos of Kaley kissing another man, you can see that this is exactly how she kisses on screen. That's why I'm 100% certain it's their choice. Given that kissing is usually very intimate, I'm sure the actors have a say in this or they specifically stated what they're willing to do or not when they signed the contract. If they signed a contract that says they have to french kiss every time, it would be different. I doubt they did though.

People thinking that TPTB purposely make Sheldon and Amy's kissing scenes look awkward amuse me. I think this is just how Jim and Mayim kiss. End of the story.

Kaley doesn't play a quirky, at times weird character. Her character is pretty much normal so why would she kiss any differently than she would in real life? She's by far and away the most normal in a stereotype sense character on there.

Not sure what the point of this whole discussion is really or where we are going with this.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Jonny said:

Kaley doesn't play a quirky, at times weird character. Her character is pretty much normal so why would she kiss any differently than she would in real life? She's by far and away the most normal in a stereotype sense character on there.

This is basically what I said? Quite a few people on this board believe the kissing scenes, whether we're talking about Shamy or Lenny, are written unromantic or weird on purpose, while it looks perfectly normal to me.

[April]

6 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

This is basically what I said? Quite a few people on this board believe the kissing scenes, whether we're talking about Shamy or Lenny, are written unromantic or weird on purpose, while it looks perfectly normal to me.

I agree with you that most of the kisses look pretty normal so I also don't really get the complaints. I mean, seriously, people don't always look the most elegant while kissing or whatever it's just realistic. I don't watch TBBT to watch attractive people perform aesthetically flawless kisses or whatever. (Not to mention that this is subjective anyway.)

But this:

41 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

People thinking that TPTB purposely make Sheldon and Amy's kissing scenes look awkward amuse me. I think this is just how Jim and Mayim kiss. End of the story.

They actually said that they are making Shamy purposefully a bit more awkward because it fits the characters and that yes, Jim and Mayim themselves can kiss differently. It's all very delicately crafted according to interviews. By comparison Kaley doesn't really need to make it look awkward cause her character is an experienced kisser. Nothing she needs to hold back.

Anyway, now that the writers have seemingly lifted that "Only 1 kiss per season!!" bullshit and Shamy are seen kissing more often there's a wider range of kisses from a simple good night peck to apparently now a full on PDA make out. So far I've always found that what they did fits the situation of the scene. Like in the latest episode they were interrupted so quickly they didn't even have a chance to do something steamier and then things got a bit awkward because the mood was ruined. That was an actual plot point so nothing wrong with that.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, April said:

They actually said that they are making Shamy purposefully a bit more awkward because it fits the characters and that yes, Jim and Mayim themselves can kiss differently. It's all very delicately crafted according to interviews. By comparison Kaley doesn't really need to make it look awkward cause her character is an experienced kisser. Nothing she needs to hold back.

Overall yes, but did they specifically say they make the kissing more awkward? Not that it'd surprise me because I wouldn't expect Sheldon and Amy to be good at kissing at all. They're quite inexperienced. 

edit: The reason why I had to weigh in on that in the first place was because Lenny was a part of these complaints and I don't see how that makes sense.

Edited December 18, 2016 by FileXxX

[April]

2 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

Overall yes, but did they specifically say they make the kissing more awkward? Not that it'd surprise me because I wouldn't expect Sheldon and Amy to be good at kissing at all. They're quite inexperienced.

Yes, Mayim was specifically asked about the kissing in the interview I'm referring to.

[spidergirl]

5 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

Overall yes, but did they specifically say they make the kissing more awkward? Not that it'd surprise me because I wouldn't expect Sheldon and Amy to be good at kissing at all. They're quite inexperienced. 

edit: The reason why I had to weigh in on that in the first place was because Lenny was a part of these complaints and I don't see how that makes sense.

I think that's  the point of their kissing. Neither actors's kissing talent or director rules followed strictedly or not by actors have nothing to do with it imo.

[djsurrey]

3 hours ago, JE7 said:

Sorry guys I forgot one of Raj's girls

Must be one lonely dog!

[wowbagger]

6 hours ago, camelliayao said:

Yes, she was introduced taking coitus off the table, because her sexual desire hasn't awaken back then. It wasn't until 410, where she saw Zack, that she began to feel the need for coitus for the first time (Or at least we were showed for the first time). And it was not until 421 did she start to find Sheldon sexy. (She held Sheldon's hand and felt nothing in 410). She didn't walk away because sex wasn't important to her at that time. But it changed as time went by.

 

Frist, she had plans to have sex during their break up. She planned to have sex with Dave in 910. She just didn't have the courage to power through it. Also I don't understand the logic behind "Because Amy didn't have sex during the break up, it means she doesn't have that much sexual desire." Those two things are just not of causal correlation. Amy could have strong sexual desire. But maybe to her there're things more important than desire. Maybe her sexuall desire is not enough for her to have sex with a random guy. Or she needs time to get over the old relationship. Or, my original point, her sexual desire is not as important as her love and respect for Sheldon. But all those things don't mean she doesn't have strong sexual desire.

 

Amy's "works for me" seems like a respond without any thought to me because she has that goofy smile on her face when she says that. At that moment she seems to be still in the aftertaste of coitus and hasn't realized what she just signed up for. This also explains why she suggests sex in 917. If she really is happy with the arrangement of birthday sex next year, she wouldn't have had any sexual expections on Sheldon's birthday.

 

Like I said before, she turns Sheldon down because Sheldon only wants to have sex for the purpose of reproduction. Does Amy have to jump on Sheldon every chance she gets to prove she has strong sexual desire? "I want to have sex with you only because of your eggs". I think no women would find that sexy. Probably lots of women will turn Sheldon down under that circumstance. Does that mean all of them don't have strong or normal amount of sexual desire?

And may I point out at the end of that episode, even if Amy knows all the things Sheldon does is for the purpose of having a baby with her, she still almost gives in because she's so hot for Sheldon.

 

Again, this is just irrelavent. Amy may have very strong sexual desire, but just not strong enough to overcome her fear and nervousness of cohabitation. Also, Amy says they'll revisit the topic again once they get more comfortable. It seems to me if she's not all that interested in hankius pankius herself, she would've have just waited for her second birthday without saying anything.

I have no idea if Amy has strong sexual desire or she's just like Sheldon. But the thing is, after years of the show emphasizing on the problem on physical intimacy between Shamy, years of the show making jokes of how Amy has her "Gerard", how Amy always craves but couldn't get physicall intimacy, how everything is just sex with her (to quote Sheldon), how much she loves to stare at Sheldon's body, how Sheldon's hair gets her all bothered that she has to masturbate with him in the living room, how she "manipulates" Sheldon to spank her, how much she enjoys their first time, am I just supposed to believe that maybe, Amy doesn't have all that high a sex drive? You know, the show was just playing with me.　

Also I don’t think it changes my original theory even if Amy only have slightly higher sexual drive than Sheldon.

Here’s the thing. If the show really wants to tell us that Amy doesn’t have that high sex drive after all these years of portraying a somehow “horny” Amy or at least an Amy with normal amount of sexual desire. The only explanation I can come up with is that there really are lots of Shamy fans out there, who fit @JE7 's theory (I don't remember the exact words), and the writers are trying to please them. 

That is, the only way for their “fairy tale” to work is for Amy to have similar amount of sexual desire as Sheldon. Because obviously there’ll be problems between Shamy if they don't have sexual harmniousness. Then Sheldon will not be 100% perfect. And that’s just unacceptable to those people. Sheldon has to be perfect (at least their standard of "perfect"), so Amy has to have apoximately whatever the amount of sexual desire as Sheldon.

I don't think Sheldon and Amy have a perfect relationship (whatever that might mean). I don't think they need to have equally matched libidos to have a good relationship, or one that works for them - so long as they are happy with whatever arrangement they have, and know the score. I DO think there is the opposite of the utopian fantasy that sometimes operates: You know, that Amy is a 'normal' girl sublimating her own desires in order to tame/win/placate her oblivious or brutish lover. I don't understand that version of the relationship and never have. I might err on the side of too much imagined similarity between Amy and Sheldon, but I admit that the only way that shipping them makes sense to me is if I think they are BOTH prickly weirdoes who BOTH get something out of the relationship. When the show pushes The Ballad Of Poor Amy And Jackass Sheldon too aggressively, I can't follow them.

you know I was with you about how gross I found the dynamic in the back half of s9. After coitus there was a certain momentum which seemed to come to a screeching halt in the back half. I disliked the way the show gratuitously set up bait where Sheldon had the opportunity to show desire....and then screeched 'bazinga!'. I disliked the combination of Sheldon's lack of seeming interest with amy's occasional hints. BUT equally you can argue that amy was hinting rather than stating an outright demand/expectation because she was more comfortable hinting than actually being put on the spot. That she liked playing the role of jezebel with a man whom she knew would never cotton on to her hints and say 'oh do you mean coitus? Well why didn't you say so? Let's go!'*.

and we can quibble about whether Amy is interested in sex, or whether she is interested ENOUGH in sex to exercise her options. I...would argue that, six months after a breakup where your friends have urged you onto tinder or whatever, if you have NOT exercised your option to have sex, maybe you're not that fussed about it. I would also argue that if you have waited until your thirties without any interest in sex, you likely aren't that fussed about it. This is not a statement of normality ot whatever. It literally is only: Amy, like Sheldon, has specific tastes. Sex isn't so important to her that she would subject herself to human social interaction simply to acquire it. Especially when Gerard is on hand to see to immediate animal evacuation needs. Would she like evidence of desire from Sheldon? Sure. Is she hot for Sheldon even after that ludicrous flamenco display? Yes. For some reason best known to her (see: Highly specific tastes). But do I think the amy onscreen is hot to trot all the time? I do not.

*and sure, because if Amy had actually been direct the writers would have had to put up or shut up forever.

this season, as I say, the writers seem to have realised how icky the dynamic was in the back half of s9. Which is why, notice, they not only have Sheldon outright saying amy makes him randy, frotting her in her place of work, and staying up to show her his 'ripped' organ. Which means that they can also have amy checking in with him, seeing if he's okay and so forth. Because they are ready for the answer to not be '.....look, we have issues in our head about Sheldon as a sexual being so if you could just play along with season six/seven vintage humour, that would be super'.

[Carm6773]

5 hours ago, camelliayao said:

Well I believe it is Amy who takes Sheldon's feelings into account. Sheldon is busy worrying about Amy's possible coitus expectations. Basically, I think Amy takes coitus off the table because first, she respects Sheldon and knows he still has problems; second, she has some concerns herself; third, compared with the possibility of Sheldon chaning his mind leaving Amy sleeping in Leonard's room alone, she prefers sleeping in the same bed with Sheldon without coitus.

Precisely.  Here's Mayim's take on the episode:
http://groknation.com/hollywood/the-big-bang-theory-the-birthday-synchronicity/

[sarah7]

On 11/12/2016 at 4:05 AM, wowbagger said:

I think we can distinguish between blaming a character and the writers to this extent: Sometimes a character makes choices you find frustrating, but they make sense given what you know about the character and his/her situation. Sometimes a character makes a choice that is inconsistent with the character/situation, in which case I blame the writers.

As an example: Amy lying to Sheldon to get him to take care of her when she was sick. Unethical, no? But also kind of plausible given Amy's desperation and habit of experimenting on people sans consent. I may cringe at the choice, but I still enjoyed watching because it made sense to me.

Amy needing to take a break in the S8 finale (and no, I really don't want to get into that again. I accept I may be in the minority here among Shamies, and that's fine): To me, inconsistent with the cheer and happiness she'd shown in the relationship otherwise. In fact, I remember putting scare quotes around 'Amy' when discussing it in the Shamy thread, because I felt so strongly that the writers just wanted to jump-start Lenny's elopement/Shamy's breakup, and had Amy behave however they needed to make it happen. A classic plot-driven rather than character-driven decision.

Others may have different examples and/or not agree with mine. But anyway, that is the distinction as I see it.

I'm bringing back this old Wowbagger's post because I think it fits the discussion going on here about Amy's sexual drive and if she is or isn't happy with Shamy's current coital schedule.

Because I think Amy's "Works for me" and "Coitus is off the table" lines that are constantly brought up to justify her agreement with the situation exist merely as the medium the writers chose to explain the audience two things: that the coitus theme won't be revisited again until the next year (as it effectively happened) and that even that they will be sharing a bed it would be only in a platonic way until the exact moment they decided otherwise, even if those both situations are just result of their whim and do not really correspond with Amy's characterization.

Because, let's be real, Amy as we know her, as had been portrayed for the most part of the run of the series, even after her "works for me" declaration in the spur of the moment, would have liked very much to try sex again at most in a week after the first time (and no, I don't think at all she is some kind of nympho, but she loves Sheldon too much, she wants and desires him a lot, she enjoyed immensely their first time together, tell me, is it realistic to think she really was happily willing to wait that much to try it again?) Yet, giving the fact that she was not only portrayed as a hot-blooded woman,  but also described as a quirky individual, I was willing to suspend disbelief and buy  the story that she was weird enough to wait a full year to experience sex a second time, but then, a couple episodes later, they had to fall again for one of their favorite dynamics that they find oh-so-funny, the eager for sex Amy and the oblivious Sheldon, so, their facade didn't last long.

So, yes "Amy" is quite happy with their current agreement, because it's convenient for the writer's intentions, so we have to believe it in oder for their story to work, and she will be equally happy the day Sheldon decides (because it all is up to Sheldon, as always) that he wants to have sex more often.

What I think we can't do as shippers is to pull the "but they are special snowflakes!" card to justify the perfection of our ship against critical voices and then write post after post of "I hope this is the end of that stupid once-a-year joke for good".

 

[wowbagger]

1 hour ago, sarah7 said:

I'm bringing back this old Wowbagger's post because I think it fits the discussion going on here about Amy's sexual drive and if she is or isn't happy with Shamy's current coital schedule.

Because I think Amy's "Works for me" and "Coitus is off the table" lines that are constantly brought up to justify her agreement with the situation exist merely as the medium the writers chose to explain the audience two things: that the coitus theme won't be revisited again until the next year (as it effectively happened) and that even that they will be sharing a bed it would be only in a platonic way until the exact moment they decided otherwise, even if those both situations are just result of their whim and do not really correspond with Amy's characterization.

Because, let's be real, Amy as we know her, as had been portrayed for the most part of the run of the series, even after her "works for me" declaration in the spur of the moment, would have liked very much to try sex again at most in a week after the first time (and no, I don't think at all she is some kind of nympho, but she loves Sheldon too much, she wants and desires him a lot, she enjoyed immensely their first time together, tell me, is it realistic to think she really was happily willing to wait that much to try it again?) Yet, giving the fact that she was not only portrayed as a hot-blooded woman,  but also described as a quirky individual, I was willing to suspend disbelief and buy  the story that she was weird enough to wait a full year to experience sex a second time, but then, a couple episodes later, they had to fall again for one of their favorite dynamics that they find oh-so-funny, the eager for sex Amy and the oblivious Sheldon, so, their facade didn't last long.

So, yes "Amy" is quite happy with their current agreement, because it's convenient for the writer's intentions, so we have to believe it in oder for their story to work, and she will be equally happy the day Sheldon decides (because it all is up to Sheldon, as always) that he wants to have sex more often.

What I think we can't do as shippers is to pull the "but they are special snowflakes!" card to justify the perfection of our ship against critical voices and then write post after post of "I hope this is the end of that stupid once-a-year joke for good".

 

Hmmmm. Well, look, I agree about the Amy/'Amy' (or Leonard/'Leonard', or Penny/'Penny' etc.) dichotomy, of course. But I don't know if I think that we have evidence enough, on-screen, to suggest that Amy would have wanted to have sex with Sheldon at most a week after having it for the first time. We see that she enjoyed it, which is very nice. And we see that she is over the moon about bonding with the girls about her night. In fact, that is the next time after coitus we see unabashed abandon from Amy, as well as an explicit avowal of the fun she had. Rather than sideways hints about birthday suits etc. that Sheldon is really unlikely to comprehend.

Also, we have seen, time and again, that Amy wants to fit in with Penny and Bernie. She has also explicitly said that she thinks that having sex is necessary to be a grown-up. So no small part of her wanting to have sex with Sheldon is a desire for a particular sort of experience that will enable her to get her Adult Member of Squad card. Do I think she doesn't fancy Sheldon? No of course not. I think she does. But the show has often tied Amy's desire for sex to her desire for partaking in particular social rituals. Too often for me to ignore.

Now obviously none of this precludes Amy wanting sex with Sheldon more regularly than once a year. But my point is simply that the evidence we've seen doesn't suggest that Amy's libido is so very high itself. Does the similarity of libido also bode well for the relationship? Shrug. Not in the absence of common ground and enjoyment otherwise. But this season does seem to have restored much of the pair's gung-ho, manic enjoyment of each other. I have not, in a long while, found it so plausible that these two would and do desire each other - and paradoxically, I have not, in a long while, been less interested in the issue of sex with these two.

[3ku11]

Am I the only one who Doesent give a damn about how much tongue they use. Their breathing. Their technique? Are we really having this conversation lol? To me making the premise believable is more important. The actors still do a great job of making the premise and show believable. Despite the unbelievable writing. The way the show has organically evolved from Eggheads and their Hottie Neighbor to a show about Young Student Professionals. Is something very believable. And I can't say I've spent a lot of time noticing how Kaley kisses other men.

But I don't think her real life behaviour should really impact cannon or fiction. Like Kaley, Penny's a very experienced kisser. Heck compared to Sheldon, Leonard is very experienced too. But where are we taking this topic? In regards to Shamy. I do feel the show are making fun of Shamy. With this yearly coitus thing. For the sake of a gag. We may not see Lenny all over each other onscreen. But they often reference they regularly have sex. And have an active sex life. I remember Amy wasent physically attracted to Sheldon s4. Around Zac. Not sure when that changed. Of course Shamy has always been a relationship of the mind. So transferring that to a physical relationship. Was always going to be difficult.

Edited December 18, 2016 by 3ku11

[spidergirl]

21 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

 I have not, in a long while, found it so plausible that these two would and do desire each other - and paradoxically, I have not, in a long while, been less interested in the issue of sex with these two.

Well said! It is indeed what makes this relationship so interesting imo. Nothing is so interisting as a good paradox!

 

Btw, am I interested if shamy kisses have tongue?

Edited December 18, 2016 by spidergirl

[Chrismo]

41 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

Well said! It is indeed what makes this relationship so interesting imo. Nothing is so interisting as a good paradox!

 

Btw, am I interested if shamy kisses have tongue?

Then you must hated the last episode because the whole Shamy storyline was about coitus.

[serena_1995]

1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

 

Now obviously none of this precludes Amy wanting sex with Sheldon more regularly than once a year. But my point is simply that the evidence we've seen doesn't suggest that Amy's libido is so very high itself. Does the similarity of libido also bode well for the relationship? Shrug. Not in the absence of common ground and enjoyment otherwise. But this season does seem to have restored much of the pair's gung-ho, manic enjoyment of each other. I have not, in a long while, found it so plausible that these two would and do desire each other - and paradoxically, I have not, in a long while, been less interested in the issue of sex with these two.

 Your last paragraph summed up my feelings. LOL. It is really a paradox, that I personally get the sense that Shamy belong together, more than ever before, and at the same time I have never been less interested in when they have sex.Whether it is thoughtful romantic gifts, scientific arguments, arguments about who misses the other more , doing FWF together, making brain in a bowl, throwing brunch together, talking in bed, at night,  casually conversing and comparing the living dilemma with aristotelian philosophies or just gushing about each other in general - I get more sense of why they work in season 10, than I had in previous seasons. Even their bedroom looks like a perfect blend of the two !  Maybe it is short lived (i hope not) but I think the writers have made a lot of deliberate effort to show this. 

Their happiness makes total sense to me right now. By all means, if either Sheldon or Amy is unhappy, I would like them to express it to each other, and maybe have a discussion like the one in D&D episode or the Mars Application episode.  It is not like they never wrote honest scenes before. The writers can do it again, if they want to convey that either Sheldon or Amy is unhappy. 

Edited December 18, 2016 by serena_1995

[camelliayao]

2 hours ago, sarah7 said:

I'm bringing back this old Wowbagger's post because I think it fits the discussion going on here about Amy's sexual drive and if she is or isn't happy with Shamy's current coital schedule.

Because I think Amy's "Works for me" and "Coitus is off the table" lines that are constantly brought up to justify her agreement with the situation exist merely as the medium the writers chose to explain the audience two things: that the coitus theme won't be revisited again until the next year (as it effectively happened) and that even that they will be sharing a bed it would be only in a platonic way until the exact moment they decided otherwise, even if those both situations are just result of their whim and do not really correspond with Amy's characterization.

Because, let's be real, Amy as we know her, as had been portrayed for the most part of the run of the series, even after her "works for me" declaration in the spur of the moment, would have liked very much to try sex again at most in a week after the first time (and no, I don't think at all she is some kind of nympho, but she loves Sheldon too much, she wants and desires him a lot, she enjoyed immensely their first time together, tell me, is it realistic to think she really was happily willing to wait that much to try it again?) Yet, giving the fact that she was not only portrayed as a hot-blooded woman,  but also described as a quirky individual, I was willing to suspend disbelief and buy  the story that she was weird enough to wait a full year to experience sex a second time, but then, a couple episodes later, they had to fall again for one of their favorite dynamics that they find oh-so-funny, the eager for sex Amy and the oblivious Sheldon, so, their facade didn't last long.

So, yes "Amy" is quite happy with their current agreement, because it's convenient for the writer's intentions, so we have to believe it in oder for their story to work, and she will be equally happy the day Sheldon decides (because it all is up to Sheldon, as always) that he wants to have sex more often.

What I think we can't do as shippers is to pull the "but they are special snowflakes!" card to justify the perfection of our ship against critical voices and then write post after post of "I hope this is the end of that stupid once-a-year joke for good".

 

Thank you!

Basically your post is everything I want to say but can't put into words because of my poor language. 

That's why I never understand the logic behind "As long as Shamy are both 100% happy with whatever coitus arrangement they agree to, we shippers are happy." Like, eh,  no. Shamy are characters created by the writers. They are happy because the writers write them so. I will be happy when Shamy are happy, and when their happiness makes sense to me. For now, it doesn't.

[spidergirl]

9 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Then you must hated the last episode because the whole Shamy storyline was about coitus.

Nope. You are wrong, sorry. For everything, it is one of my favourites episodes. 

[djsurrey]

7 hours ago, veejay said:

Watch out! 

I'm just going to read more Rogue One reviews and post election commentary for fun. I'll check in later to see if this has moved on from kissing techniques and other stuff I'm not interested in talking about.

Sounds like real life Wil went to the Rogue One Opening. Hard to believe our nerds did not even bring it up.

Edited December 18, 2016 by djsurrey

[sarah7]

2 hours ago, camelliayao said:

Thank you!

Basically your post is everything I want to say but can't put into words because of my poor language. 

That's why I never understand the logic behind "As long as Shamy are both 100% happy with whatever coitus arrangement they agree to, we shippers are happy." Like, eh,  no. Shamy are characters created by the writers. They are happy because the writers write them so. I will be happy when Shamy are happy, and when their happiness makes sense to me. For now, it doesn't.

Thanks Camelliayao! I always enjoy reading your posts too, because I agree with a lot of your opinions on the show

The bolded part, I agree and I think it all comes back to inconsistencies in writing again. At first I was shocked when a given character did/said something I considered outrageus and inconsistent with her/his previous story/behaviour, but then I had to come to terms with the fact that they don't really care about consistency in characterization, and they are only looking for the joke of the moment (even if a lot of times said joke ends up being not that funny) and that they have the habit of raise up certain issues just to immediately swept them under the rug and leave them there, awaiting for the next opportunity to use them to "shake things up", sometimes damaging severely a character/relationship's image (take latest taping's Lenny's RA! armageddon as an example)

I must concede that Shamy's dynamic this season had been like a thousand times better than previous seasons, even reminiscent of their golden age (aka Seasons 4 and 5) but that's not enough to make me a happy shipper, because I still think the narrative as a whole is too skewed in Sheldon's favor (I mean, it all revolves around him, his issues, his needs, his family, his decisions and so on), but I guess I must get used to the idea that it's going to be like that forever and there's little to no chance for it to change.

 

3 hours ago, wowbagger said:

Hmmmm. Well, look, I agree about the Amy/'Amy' (or Leonard/'Leonard', or Penny/'Penny' etc.) dichotomy, of course. But I don't know if I think that we have evidence enough, on-screen, to suggest that Amy would have wanted to have sex with Sheldon at most a week after having it for the first time. We see that she enjoyed it, which is very nice. And we see that she is over the moon about bonding with the girls about her night. In fact, that is the next time after coitus we see unabashed abandon from Amy, as well as an explicit avowal of the fun she had. Rather than sideways hints about birthday suits etc. that Sheldon is really unlikely to comprehend.

Also, we have seen, time and again, that Amy wants to fit in with Penny and Bernie. She has also explicitly said that she thinks that having sex is necessary to be a grown-up. So no small part of her wanting to have sex with Sheldon is a desire for a particular sort of experience that will enable her to get her Adult Member of Squad card. Do I think she doesn't fancy Sheldon? No of course not. I think she does. But the show has often tied Amy's desire for sex to her desire for partaking in particular social rituals. Too often for me to ignore.

Now obviously none of this precludes Amy wanting sex with Sheldon more regularly than once a year. But my point is simply that the evidence we've seen doesn't suggest that Amy's libido is so very high itself. Does the similarity of libido also bode well for the relationship? Shrug. Not in the absence of common ground and enjoyment otherwise. But this season does seem to have restored much of the pair's gung-ho, manic enjoyment of each other. I have not, in a long while, found it so plausible that these two would and do desire each other - and paradoxically, I have not, in a long while, been less interested in the issue of sex with these two.

Let's remember that of the three most important female characters of the show, the one that was always portrayed as having the highest libido had always been Amy (for "comedic" purposes, I guess, given that she was the oddest of them, actually, I don't blame them, as cringe worthy as those scenes had to be, I found Mayim to be hysterical in those) and ironically, she was paired up with the guy with the lowest (absent) libido ( for comedic?! purposes as well), we saw her lusting no only after her boyfriend and and hot hunk, but after her hot bestie and her second less hot and less close girlfriend, and even getting a bit bothered by a simple and innocent group hug!

But okay, I've been a vocal supporter of the notion that Amy's is a lot of talk but much shyer in practice that we would expect from her blabber, let's ignore all her suggestive talk and actions from the past. Let's focus in her post-coitus insinuations (scarce yes, but not nonexistent), her eagerness to admire and touch Sheldon's bare legs, her excitment when Sheldon's words seemed an invitation to naughtyness and her dissappointed expression when they turned out to be an invitation to try his new laptop, and even Sheldon's complaints about her lascivious stare at his naked persona aren't for you enough evidence of her desire for experience sex more often, there's always the fact that we are not just talking about libido or sexual drive here,  but about love, and that I guess for her intimacy with Sheldon is not just about satisfying her animal instincts, but first and foremost, an expression of love, a desire that she is still holding back because of him, in consideration of him, and no, I'm not trying to sanctify Amy, I'm just saying that the writers are still struggling with giving the relationship a correct balance. I've read you saying in other posts: "Show, don't tell", well, I'm being told by the show that everything is fine, that the once-a-year thing works for her and that she is the one that sets coitus off the table, yet, in several ocassions they are showing me something else, why are they shooting themselves in the foot? That's what I can't comprehend.

You told me you can't find enough evidence that she is craving more intimacy that what she actually has, well, I tell you I can't find the slightest evidence that she is indeed absolutely happy and fine with the situation other than she is, again, not forcing Sheldon and waiting for him to perhaps catch up with her someday. Please note I'm not saying she is a suffering martyr or that the other aspects of their relationship aren't important, I'm just saying that the imbalance, even if it's less pronunciated as it used to be, persists and I'm not sure if someday it will reach an equilibrium.

Now, great you don't care that much about their sex life (it's not like I'm losing any sleep over it either ) but do you know who do cares? TPTB, the do care, a lot, because Shamy's sex life is their current cash cow, it was their sex life what gave them a world record, and they want to milk it as much as they can. Because the imbalance in that regard could be fixed without much scandal, we don't even have to see them kissing on bed again, a couple passing comments about them having a regular and normal sexual life and it won't be an issue anymore, but it would also be the end of that storyline and they won't have excuses to make a fuss about it and try to bait the audience with the topic anymore.

Edited December 19, 2016 by sarah7

[Lady in Red]

5 hours ago, April said:

Yes, Mayim was specifically asked about the kissing in the interview I'm referring to.

In addition to this interview, Jim Parsons gave a press interview after winning the Critics Choice Award in 2014, in which he says:  "These aren't the most passionate kisses we've been doing on this show, but they're huge for him."  He's referring to the slow growth of his character, Sheldon.

Along with Mayim's SDCC appearance, in which she has to answer the question, What is it like to kiss Jim Parsons?, and she talks about how everything is very carefully crafted.  I think it is clear that these are actors, and the kissing scenes reflect the interpretation of the script and of the characters by them and the director.