[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[wowbagger]

12 hours ago, Tensor said:

So, Mary made mean and insulting comments to Sheldon.  What's the big deal?  It's exactly the same thing they have done before with Beverly and Leonard and Debbie and Howard and to a lesser extent Raj and his parents.  

I don't know if this helps, but could cognitive dissonance play a role here? In my opinion we are usually as an audience invited to treat Beverley as the bad guy, or at least her failings as a mother are a fairly large part of her characterisation. So when she says cold or cutting things, those can be treated as part of the shit that sensitive plants and nerds deal with all the time. Whereas Mary might be bigoted in a (heavy scare quotes) 'benign' way, but she is mainly presented as a good and caring mother to sheldon and a generally affectionate maternal figure to the gang. So for her to essentially say something this dismissive to one of her brood and for Sheldon's response to also be dismissed? Is not just a slap in the face to sheldon, but i think the show delivering a pretty nasty broadside to the 'different' people that the show supposedly espouses.

[jenafan]

1 hour ago, wowbagger said:

I don't know if this helps, but could cognitive dissonance play a role here? In my opinion we are usually as an audience invited to treat Beverley as the bad guy, or at least her failings as a mother are a fairly large part of her characterisation. So when she says cold or cutting things, those can be treated as part of the shit that sensitive plants and nerds deal with all the time. Whereas Mary might be bigoted in a (heavy scare quotes) 'benign' way, but she is mainly presented as a good and caring mother to sheldon and a generally affectionate maternal figure to the gang. So for her to essentially say something this dismissive to one of her brood and for Sheldon's response to also be dismissed? Is not just a slap in the face to sheldon, but i think the show delivering a pretty nasty broadside to the 'different' people that the show supposedly espouses.

If I had read this before making my own reply, my response would have been a whole lot different.    This is exactly how I am feeling about Mary and Sheldon's reaction to her.

The more I think about it, if Mary had heard this news directly from Sheldon, the Bible lecture may very well have ensued.  However, having already heard about it from Amy and discussed the matter with her, she had time to pray and come to her own conclusion on the matter.  When she urged Sheldon to share his "news," her goal was to reassure him that she was okay with it and move on to an enjoyable meal perhaps discussing pleasant things.  It was Sheldon not accepting her response and pushing back because it wasn't what he expected that led to Mary's mean confessIon and what followed.  I see now she was acting totally IC.   

Just as Sheldon is changing, so is his relationship with Mary to a small extent.  Amy is in the mix now.   She is his soulmate and the one to care for him now.  Furthermore, Mary has tried to do things God's way only to end up beaten and scarred by a bad marriage, a cheating husband, widowhood, and caught by her son fornicating.   It is difficult to enforce what didn't work for ones own self.

Mary has shown that Sheldon's happiness is more important to her than brow-beating him with the Bible.  Furthermore, I'm convinced she believes God will forgive her for condoning his actions because Sheldon is "special." 

I hated her comment to Sheldon when he asked her why people cry at weddings during the Lenny redo.  I think seeing Sheldon beat the seemingly impossible odds of having a successful relationship is a dream come true, and she will support it  with everything and every prayer she can muster, even if his way of going about is contrary to her beliefs.

[Carlos]

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 0:25 PM, kimbee73 said:

No he did not press charges but regardless it is still illegal. And the battery you are talking about Amy didn't press charges either. Actually I think she enjoyed it.

I am not trying to get into a debate about this. 

I did say that what they did to their friends was wrong too. I am not for experimenting on friends in any way without consent.

If Amy had said "here is something to calm you during the flight" I would have been all for it and someone in one of their posts(either here or in Shamy) said they could have had it be a drug from Bernie's that Sheldon had a negative reaction and still gotten laughs.

I just didn't like her giving him "funny tasting juice"  He did take it but still.....it's not right.

You are correct in your assessment of it being illegal because it is without consent. However, this is not the first time TPTB do it on the show. If you remember when Howard was asked about the Valiums for his mom he said she doesn't know she's taking them or something to that effect. Also I seem to remember that Howard gave Sheldon some Valiums in his milk in the episode when he says "I'm Batman!"

22 hours ago, Tenji said:

Battery!? That was not an act of battery whatever way you look at it. It wasn't harmful. It wasn't injury-inducing. It was a playful smack on the behind that she liked. If it were a slap across the face etc... I would get your point.

Isn't the slap being playful an almost 100 % subjective assessment? Personally, when I saw it I cringed because it did seem a little too hard to be playful . If Amy wanted she could have pressed charges for that. What I consider playful slaps or spanking would be more along the lines of what happened in Fish Gut displacement when Amy was faking being sick. That was playful, IMO. The other one, was not (again IMO). Where the line is drawn is totally subjective so it is just opinions.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Carlos

[bfm]

3 hours ago, wowbagger said:

I don't know if this helps, but could cognitive dissonance play a role here? In my opinion we are usually as an audience invited to treat Beverley as the bad guy, or at least her failings as a mother are a fairly large part of her characterisation. So when she says cold or cutting things, those can be treated as part of the shit that sensitive plants and nerds deal with all the time. Whereas Mary might be bigoted in a (heavy scare quotes) 'benign' way, but she is mainly presented as a good and caring mother to sheldon and a generally affectionate maternal figure to the gang. So for her to essentially say something this dismissive to one of her brood and for Sheldon's response to also be dismissed? Is not just a slap in the face to sheldon, but i think the show delivering a pretty nasty broadside to the 'different' people that the show supposedly espouses.

I think Mary's concerns for Sheldon were actually legitimate and understandable. I had a problem with the way it was portrayed...I think it would have been much more sensitive and helpful to people with ASD and their families (this group includes me since my sister has ASD) if they dropped the joke (the part about boarding the trains) and made it a truthfull revelation, a mother sharing her worries with her son and how happy she is about him finding a romantic partner, emphasizing how much she cares about him.

[mirs1]

51 minutes ago, Carlos said:

You are correct in your assessment of it being illegal because it is without consent. However, this is not the first time TPTB do it on the show. If you remember when Howard was asked about the Valiums for his mom he said she doesn't know she's taking them or something to that effect. Also I seem to remember that Howard gave Sheldon some Valiums in his milk in the episode when he says "I'm Batman!"

Isn't the slap being playful an almost 100 % subjective assessment? Personally, when I saw it I cringed because it did seem a little too hard to be playful . If Amy wanted she could have pressed charges for that. What I consider playful slaps or spanking would be more along the lines of what happened in Fish Gut displacement when Amy was faking being sick. That was playful, IMO. The other one, was not (again IMO). Where the line is drawn is totally subjective so it is just opinions.

You are right, it's interesting how things can be subjective. I cringe every time Fish Gut is on, it makes me very very uncomfortable. The idea that you can even think about physically punish somebody to teach them a lesson was really too much for me. Also the fact that for Amy that  was somehow a sexual act to which Sheldon never consented it's a reason of concern, but not as strong as the former one. The spanking in the Thanksgiving episode, albeit not my favourite PDA, in my view can be seen in a more playful way. 

[Tensor]

3 hours ago, wowbagger said:

I don't know if this helps, but could cognitive dissonance play a role here? In my opinion we are usually as an audience invited to treat Beverley as the bad guy, or at least her failings as a mother are a fairly large part of her characterisation. So when she says cold or cutting things, those can be treated as part of the shit that sensitive plants and nerds deal with all the time. Whereas Mary might be bigoted in a (heavy scare quotes) 'benign' way, but she is mainly presented as a good and caring mother to sheldon and a generally affectionate maternal figure to the gang. So for her to essentially say something this dismissive to one of her brood and for Sheldon's response to also be dismissed? Is not just a slap in the face to sheldon, but i think the show delivering a pretty nasty broadside to the 'different' people that the show supposedly espouses.

I'm not sure if it is or not. The comment I was referring to was @jenfan's that  no one deserves to be insulted by their own parents.   I was simply pointing out that all the characters have had not so nice things about them, by their parents.

Mary has expressed concern over his ability to live by himself in various ways before, along with making some rather mean comments also.  His sister mentions her calling him "one of god's special little children".  And she comes running when ever Leonard calls her and she has thanked Leonard for taking care of him.  Saying that she was worried that he would never find a mate doesn't seem out of place in with prior comments in mind.  

Of course, it's going to depend on one's views.  I don't see a problem with it, but then I don't have the depth off interest in Sheldon or Shamy.  I won't say anyone isn't allowed to feel upset with Mary in this situation and it's not my place, simply because of my lack of interest.  I will point out,  like I have done, that other parents have said as bad or worse things about their kids in the show.  So if someone feels that it's not proper for Mary, they should also condemn the other parents.  

[spidergirl]

1 hour ago, mirs1 said:

You are right, it's interesting how things can be subjective. I cringe every time Fish Gut is on, it makes me very very uncomfortable. The idea that you can even think about physically punish somebody to teach them a lesson was really too much for me. Also the fact that for Amy that  was somehow a sexual act to which Sheldon never consented it's a reason of concern, but not as strong as the former one. The spanking in the Thanksgiving episode, albeit not my favourite PDA, in my view can be seen in a more playful way. 

Agree.  The spanking in Thanksgiving episode always made me feel more unconfortable than amused . It was interisting imo from Amy's side and not at all from Sheldon's side . It was a way for Amy got a kind of physical touch from Sheldon who by that time not touch her with  sexual intention and also she had not a sexual opinion by herself about what she liked or not about sex t.  I believe she went for what was like forbidden fruit. So she got happy for going to something so  kinky with Sheldon.

From Sheldon's side made me cringe. He was punishing Amy with physical violence , as his slap was not playful at all, the opposite that  he did this season at brunch episode where the slap was lighter and without intention of hurt Amy. And the serious thing was Sheldon repeated a violent gesture as he repeated a violent act from his father and didnt processed what he was doing. 

I have rewatched that episode but I dont care much for the tag scene.

Edited January 7, 2017 by spidergirl
Missing words that were ruining my point

[April]

21 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

Agree.  The spanking in Thanksgiving episode always made me feel more unconfortable than amused . It was interisting imo from Amy's side and not at all from Sheldon's side . It was a way for Amy got a kind of physical touch from Sheldon who by that time not touch her at all and also she had not a sexual opinion by herself about what she liked or not about sex t.  I believe she went for what was like forbidden fruit. So she got happy for going to something so  kinky with Sheldon.

A few episodes prior:

Sheldon: "It’s a physical relationship, too. Hand-holding, hugging, even on hot days!"

Just saying... We might not have gotten anything on screen at that time but the idea that they didn't touch at all is not correct.

[legacy99]

I'm suprised ay the reaction to sheldons mother. for 9 seasons she was the best mother on the show and i think everyone had a pretty good opinion of her but now she makes some comments that some fans dont like and their ready to burn her at the stake

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[spidergirl]

9 minutes ago, April said:

A few episodes prior:

Sheldon: "It’s a physical relationship, too. Hand-holding, hugging, even on hot days!"

Just saying... We might not have gotten anything on screen at that time but the idea that they didn't touch at all is not correct.

You 're right, I should have had explained myself better about the kind of touching.  What I meant was touching more sexual connected and the spanking was something more connected with that. Hope I made sense more sense now.

Edit: thanks for corrected me. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by spidergirl

[Swedish Chef]

10 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

I'm suprised ay the reaction to sheldons mother. for 9 seasons she was the best mother on the show and i think everyone had a pretty good opinion of her but now she makes some comments that some fans dont like and their ready to burn her at the stake

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 

You know, it goes fast from the top to the bottom. 

[wowbagger]

13 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

I'm suprised ay the reaction to sheldons mother. for 9 seasons she was the best mother on the show and i think everyone had a pretty good opinion of her but now she makes some comments that some fans dont like and their ready to burn her at the stake

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 

I mean, there has been *some* criticism of a pretty hurtful (or at least badly expressed) thing she said. I don't think anyone's pulling out the pitchforks just yet, are they? At least not on here.

[Stephen Hawking]

On 12/19/2016 at 2:33 AM, Chrismo said:

The picture of his brain he gave to Amy was total self ego stroking.

Really?

Amy is a brain scientist, so would probably find it interesting, in the same way Beverly found Sheldon's brain scan interesting, and she wanted one of Penny's too.

22 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

for 9 seasons she was the best mother on the show

You mean aside from being a racist and a hypocrite?

[legacy99]

I really don't think what mary said was any worse than what sheldon said to his mother when he went to Texas with howard

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[April]

20 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

You 're right, I should have had explained myself better about the kind of touching.  What I meant was touching more sexual connected and the spanking was something more connected with that. Hope I made sense more sense now.

Edit: thanks for corrected me. 

That makes more sense, indeed.

6 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

I mean, there has been *some* criticism of a pretty hurtful (or at least badly expressed) thing she said. I don't think anyone's pulling out the pitchforks just yet, are they? At least not on here.

Right? I mean it's the plot of the current episode so of course it will be the focus of discussion. But I haven't seen anyone say that her comment is the same as, for example, Beverly and her bestsellers "500 ways to traumatise your kid" with the follow up "how to be a terrible mom to your grown up son who's in desperate need of therapy".

[Stephen Hawking]

1 minute ago, legacy99 said:

I really don't think what Mary said was any worse than what Sheldon said to his mother when he went to Texas with Howard.

What exactly did Sheldon say, that you felt was so bad?

[legacy99]

I guess I'm trying to say is that sometimes you need to hear things from family that no one else will tell you

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[Stephen Hawking]

11 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

I guess I'm trying to say is that sometimes you need to hear things from family that no one else will tell you.

Like that you are a massive hypocrite?

[joyceraye]

3 hours ago, jenafan said:

If I had read this before making my own reply, my response would have been a whole lot different.    This is exactly how I am feeling about Mary and Sheldon's reaction to her.

The more I think about it, if Mary had heard this news directly from Sheldon, the Bible lecture may very well have ensued.  However, having already heard about it from Amy and discussed the matter with her, she had time to pray and come to her own conclusion on the matter.  When she urged Sheldon to share his "news," her goal was to reassure him that she was okay with it and move on to an enjoyable meal perhaps discussing pleasant things.  It was Sheldon not accepting her response and pushing back because it wasn't what he expected that led to Mary's mean confessIon and what followed.  I see now she was acting totally IC.   

Just as Sheldon is changing, so is his relationship with Mary to a small extent.  Amy is in the mix now.   She is his soulmate and the one to care for him now.  Furthermore, Mary has tried to do things God's way only to end up beaten and scarred by a bad marriage, a cheating husband, widowhood, and caught by her son fornicating.   It is difficult to enforce what didn't work for ones own self.

Mary has shown that Sheldon's happiness is more important to her than brow-beating him with the Bible.  Furthermore, I'm convinced she believes God will forgive her for condoning his actions because Sheldon is "special." 

I hated her comment to Sheldon when he asked her why people cry at weddings during the Lenny redo.  I think seeing Sheldon beat the seemingly impossible odds of having a successful relationship is a dream come true, and she will support it  with everything and every prayer she can muster, even if his way of going about is contrary to her beliefs.

Spot on ! You should be writing the scripts.

2 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

Like that you are a massive hypocrite?

Yup ! She's already been told so. Sheldon made it quite clear at the time. The fact that she doesn't appear to have continued in the relationship let alone married the bloke from the Bible study group, shows she's in even less of a place to throw stones - which to be fair she didn't - at Shamy.

[Stephen Hawking]

6 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

She's already been told so. Sheldon made it quite clear at the time.

By a hypocrite, I wasn't just referring to her sexual dalliance with Ron.

[legacy99]

Like that you are a massive hypocrite?

I don't understand why it's ok for sheldon to criticize anyone he wants including his mother but if he's criticized their being mean to him

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[Stephen Hawking]

13 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

I don't understand why it's OK for Sheldon to criticize anyone he wants including his mother but if he's criticized their being mean to him.

Where did I say criticizing Sheldon was being mean to him?

[legacy99]

Where did I say criticizing Sheldon was being mean to him?

I never said you did after reading some of the posts here it jmo

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[RJ1013]

My thoughts on "Fish Guts":

If Amy had objected to his proposed punishment, there’s no way he would’ve done it. Still, I agree that the physical punishment aspect of the episode was uncomfortable.

I’m not as convinced as others that Sheldon was unaware or naive during this episode. He may be bad at understanding innuendo or slang, but even children know what the private parts of a person’s body are and that it relates to sex. Touching in any form was (is?) difficult for him and thus something he considered very intimate. I think he would’ve seen touching her chest, spanking her bottom, and bathing her as intimate activities. He was inexperienced about this stuff, sure, but I can’t picture him as being completely ignorant. I can picture him feigning ignorance because he thinks it’s an uncomfortable topic, though

We know that he was astute enough to figure out she was enjoying the spanking because he said as much, and I believe he also mentioned the vaporub as something that riled her up. Even though he had recognized the effect he was having on her, he continued to do those things anyway.

Their exchange when Amy said ‘Maybe you should spank me harder’ and he said ‘Maybe I will’ reminds me a bit of this season’s argument that ended with them deciding to go make out. Given that plus his tendency to touch her bottom in subsequent seasons, this may not have been such an innocent scenario for him either.

I think at that point in their relationship Sheldon was trying to figure out what degree of physical intimacy he could handle. Taking care of her while she was sick would’ve been a good opportunity to see what he could tolerate, and it had the benefit of being a situation that wouldn’t have any sexual expectations or pressures on it. In a more realistic sense, I think maybe the writers wanted to see how the audience would react to the idea of physical intimacy for Sheldon but also wanted a situation that they could completely back out of. “Love Spell Potential” aired later that season, so it’s likely that this kind of stuff was on the writer’s minds.

[joyceraye]

38 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

By a hypocrite, I wasn't just referring to her sexual dalliance with Ron.

Ooh - what else then ?