[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[3ku11]

52 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

Like that you are a massive hypocrite?

How is she a hypocrite. And neither Sheldon, nor Amy are? What because she had sex, because she is a Christian? So what, I'm a Christian, and that diddnt bother me. It Doesent make her a hypocrite. It makes her human. In any respect. It seems although I don't have the depth or investment a lot do. Are ready to burn her to a stick, simply for the delivery of her comments. Like poor Shelly. Well he needs to get over it. And start growing up imo. Like said Mary's comments weren't exactly inconsistent with her previous comments.

She could of gone about it another way. But it's like if Susan (Penny's mother). Was like Penny your a failed actress, and your damn Luckey Leonard settled for you. She maybe taken back. But that's parents. They well never lie to you. They have a mix of cynicism, pretension, and love for you. In this case Mary was like "considering your special circumstances". She was subtle, Sheldon choose to take offense. That's not Mary's fault at all. She could of been more direct about it.

And it's not like she said anything that's not true. So I agree with the notion, all the characters have had parents who have made comments. The Dissapponting Child anyone? Sheldons damn luckey Mary is not a published author lol. Just seems to me, some are choosing to get sensitive. And are displacing their frustrations over the current state of Shamy. And I get that. But imo Mary said nothing that was not consistent.

Edited January 7, 2017 by 3ku11

[Stephen Hawking]

2 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Ooh - what else then ?

I'm no expert on the Bible, but I'm pretty sure it contains references to loving thy neighbor and turning the other cheek, neither of which she seems to live by, given the way she talks about people of other colors/races, and the way she reacted to Beverly in The Maternal Combustion.

[3ku11]

1 minute ago, Stephen Hawking said:

I'm no expert on the Bible, but I'm pretty sure it contains references to loving thy neighbor and turning the other cheek, neither of which she seems to live by, given the way she talks about people of other colors/races, and the way she reacted to Beverly in The Maternal Combustion.

Haha. I'm a Christian and I'm basically Mary every day. You know why? Because I'm human. I'm not perfect. That's why without bringing religion to this thread. Jesus died for our sins. That's how I see it. Mary sins. But she trusts in Jesus.

[legacy99]

Talking about turning the other cheek that's all the other characters have done when it comes to sheldon

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[Stephen Hawking]

1 minute ago, 3ku11 said:

How is she a hypocrite.

By lecturing Sheldon on pre/non-marital sex, then doing the exact same thing herself.

That, I'd say, is a textbook example of hypocrisy

[Chrismo]

4 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

By lecturing Sheldon on pre/non-marital sex, then doing the exact same thing herself.

That, I'd say, is a textbook example of hypocrisy

People make mistakes. To error is human. That's why I didn't understand why Shamy were concerned about telling Mary they were living together. If she made a comment all they had to do is to refer to what she did.

[joyceraye]

5 minutes ago, RJ1013 said:

My thoughts on "Fish Guts":

If Amy had objected to his proposed punishment, there’s no way he would’ve done it. Still, I agree that the physical punishment aspect of the episode was uncomfortable.

I’m not as convinced as others that Sheldon was unaware or naive during this episode. He may be bad at understanding innuendo or slang, but even children know what the private parts of a person’s body are and that it relates to sex. Touching in any form was (is?) difficult for him and thus something he considered very intimate. I think he would’ve seen touching her chest, spanking her bottom, and bathing her as intimate activities. He was inexperienced about this stuff, sure, but I can’t picture him as being completely ignorant. I can picture him feigning ignorance because he thinks it’s an uncomfortable topic, though

We know that he was astute enough to figure out she was enjoying the spanking because he said as much, and I believe he also mentioned the vaporub as something that riled her up. Even though he had recognized the effect he was having on her, he continued to do those things anyway.

Their exchange when Amy said ‘Maybe you should spank me harder’ and he said ‘Maybe I will’ reminds me a bit of this season’s argument that ended with them deciding to go make out. Given that plus his tendency to touch her bottom in subsequent seasons, this may not have been such an innocent scenario for him either.

I think at that point in their relationship Sheldon was trying to figure out what degree of physical intimacy he could handle. Taking care of her while she was sick would’ve been a good opportunity to see what he could tolerate, and it had the benefit of being a situation that wouldn’t have any sexual expectations or pressures on it. In a more realistic sense, I think maybe the writers wanted to see how the audience would react to the idea of physical intimacy for Sheldon but also wanted a situation that they could completely back out of. “Love Spell Potential” aired later that season, so it’s likely that this kind of stuff was on the writer’s minds.

In an interview Jim said the decision to show the scene was taken at the last minute. The incident was supposed to happen off camera. It was unrehearsed so he hadn't practised how to compose his face. It needed several takes for that reason and Mayim was actually hurt. I never liked it. I wished they hadn't even had it in the script.

Yes I'm sure Sheldon mixed enough with randy friends to know there was a sexual connotation. He was nevertheless annoyed with Amy for playing tricks on him so there was more to it. He did in those days try to get revenge on people when anybody did something to him that he didn't like, so the genuine punishment aspect of it disturbed me. In the Hufflepuff v Gryffindor ' Am I in trouble ?' line it was obvious from the context there was nothing but playfulness intended, which didn't bother me in the least, far from it.

 

21 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

I'm no expert on the Bible, but I'm pretty sure it contains references to loving thy neighbor and turning the other cheek, neither of which she seems to live by, given the way she talks about people of other colors/races, and the way she reacted to Beverly in The Maternal Combustion.

I see what you mean. Yes, she does tend to pick and choose her scripture a bit.  In these days of information availability she really doesn't need to be as ignorant and confused as she pretends. The first thing most people ask about a new baby is the sex, weight and health, followed by whom it resembles and how it's sleeping and eating. Religion is usually a lot further down the list. I wonder how Mary would have reacted if Amy'd answered, ' Well they've chosen a Hindu godparent.' ?

[joyceraye]

21 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

People make mistakes. To error is human. That's why I didn't understand why Shamy were concerned about telling Mary they were living together. If she made a comment all they had to do is to refer to what she did.

Indeed, but Amy was trying to avoid arguments and wanted a nice time while they were there.

[jenafan]

1 hour ago, legacy99 said:

I don't understand why it's ok for sheldon to criticize anyone he wants including his mother but if he's criticized their being mean to him

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Two wrongs don't make a right, but one has a right to choose which wrong they want to side with and which they don't.  We are all hypocrites at one time or another depending on the situation and how vested we are in the issue that caused offense.

However, to contradict my own statement, some believe two wrongs can make a right if one can teach the other entity how it feels to be wronged in a similar way and one or both parties learn from it.

[Stephen Hawking]

2 hours ago, joyceraye said:

It needed several takes for that reason and Mayim was actually hurt.

She laughed, when she told the audience "there was some redness", so I can't imagine she was all that hurt.

[Jonny]

3 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

By lecturing Sheldon on pre/non-marital sex, then doing the exact same thing herself.

That, I'd say, is a textbook example of hypocrisy

She has always been like that and comes across as not as devout as she appears/doesn't practice what she preaches. I have no doubt she will say she is being tested and therefore needs to try harder and pray more.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Jonny

[joyceraye]

22 hours ago, joyceraye said:

  45 minutes ago, jenafan said:

I don't think anyone, no matter what their lot in life is deserves to be insulted by their own parents, and for Mary to say what she did in front of Sheldon's significant other was downright rude.  

We saw how Sheldon was hurt by having the truth pointed out but what Sheldon took as an insult was, on the face of it, deserved. He chose to take his mother's concession as an insult. I'm not saying he was wrong so to do. I was rather breathtaken by his standing up so straight, folding his arms like that and talking so plainly. I admired that. Thirty years ago I'd have been quite  overcome . We may think Mary Cooper's brand of religion  - that thinks God wrote the Bible Himself and takes the Old Testament literally - is comic but what is part of the doctrine of  Christianity in general, and every other mainstream faith on the planet for that matter,is that sexual intercourse ( implied in the term 'living in sin' ) out of wedlock is wrong. Mary for once is not cranky or out of the loop in that view. If it was any other relative than Sheldon she'd be ashamed. By 'truth' I mean Shamy is an exception because there really are what Mary calls 'special circumstances'.

Sheldon has disorders that render him slow to deal with change. He has habits from which he has to be weaned slowly, not only causing him difficulty but also making him difficult. Given, Sheldon was intending to propose last year, or said he was, but seriously ? If he stayed with his old living arrangement until his wedding day when would he ever be ready ? Does anyone who knows him imagine Sheldon could go through a ceremony in front of people, endure speeches and a party,travel to a honeymoon destination, get into a strange bed in a strange room and perform coitus for the first time all on the same day ? Who's kidding ? Then he'd come back to live in a home where he'd never lived before and adjust instantly with no bickering ? Sheldon ?  Sheldon needed to go about things the way he did.  Perhaps still does. This is before one starts thinking of Amy's problems. 'Special circumstances' is absolutely true or else Mary would never get her head around it. 

That Mary chose this very time to mention she'd always thought he'd live alone because his specialness in the demeaning sense of the word would deter women was harsh, yes.  Sheldon had made it clear to his friends, plus anyone in the world able to hear Howardette's wedding on the Google satellite ( Don't know if there was sound ) that alone without needing anyone else was what he regarded as a superior state. Mary must have heard him say this many times. To have come back with, 'That's just as well, Shelley honey, because no woman's gonna put up with ya,' would have been  insulting and cruel. She's saved that one up for a rainy day. She's had years to be grateful to Amy, and to whoever her God is for her, but now she comes out with her snide. She's as good as saying she's holding Sheldon to a lower standard because he's not up to the real thing ( true enough) and in the hearing of the woman who'll stoop to that. If she's felt betrayed in any way she's sure got her own back now. It's hit Sheldon between the eyes that his mother has seen him as the weak and vulnerable one rather than 'special' in the best sense of the word.

The irony is, since Amy obviously must have last spoken to Mary before Halley was born, when Amy told her they were living together they hadn't at that point lived in sin at all ! I must go back and look at Amy's face when Sheldon says they must tell his mother they have bunk beds. 

 

 

 

 

[Tensor]

I rediscovered an article tonight that Mayim wrote just after "The Birthday Sychronicity", where she , praises the writers for looking at consent in relationships.   She also characterizes the Amy/Sheldon relationship as "Special and Respectful" and comments "Our writers again and again have shown themselves to be gloriously skilled at presenting the most important aspects of Amy and Sheldon’s relationship without ever being lecherous, creepy, silly, or disrespectful about it. 

I found it highly ironic considering the very next episode contains Amy drugging Sheldon, without his knowledge, and obviously without his consent.  And I'm not sure how she could praise the writers for being so respectful, when she already knew the very next episode was going to include what amounts to a ruffying of Sheldon.

And before you all jump on my, I agree with the idea of the article.  Consent should be given (and be able to be given) for any sexual acts.  I just, like I said, found it highly ironic. 

[Spaced_up]

4 hours ago, Tensor said:

I rediscovered an article tonight that Mayim wrote just after "The Birthday Sychronicity", where she , praises the writers for looking at consent in relationships.   She also characterizes the Amy/Sheldon relationship as "Special and Respectful" and comments "Our writers again and again have shown themselves to be gloriously skilled at presenting the most important aspects of Amy and Sheldon’s relationship without ever being lecherous, creepy, silly, or disrespectful about it. 

I found it highly ironic considering the very next episode contains Amy drugging Sheldon, without his knowledge, and obviously without his consent.  And I'm not sure how she could praise the writers for being so respectful, when she already knew the very next episode was going to include what amounts to a ruffying of Sheldon.

And before you all jump on my, I agree with the idea of the article.  Consent should be given (and be able to be given) for any sexual acts.  I just, like I said, found it highly ironic. 

Amy always had a slightly child-catcher vibe about her and this seems to have re-emerged. There's a creepy message underlining this show at times and I blame Molaro. Amy's too 'knowing' in what she tries to do. What with all the experiments for 'Sheldon's own good' and the way he's becoming more and more childlike. To the point where you wonder how he ever managed to get through university at the age of 11 on his own. How he managed to go to Germany as a visiting professor. Early canon has been plastered over with this incompetent man-child who treats his friends like parents. This used to be a one-off joke but now it's become everything Sheldon is. Severing his ties with Leonard has now become this major plotline, whereas before Sheldon used to forget if Leonard was even in the same room and say that he'd live alone if he could afford it. I don't like the boy Sheldon. I actually don't think many hardcore fans do.

As for the article I agree, but then I've never given much stock to anything Miss Bialik says really.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Spaced_up

[3ku11]

Or repeated cannon..

[legacy99]

I've always wondered how sheldon survived before leonard came along did he just sit in his lawn chair every night and weekend

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[Stephen Hawking]

7 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

did he just sit in his lawn chair every night and weekend?

Very likely.

[3ku11]

It's Leonard's fault now? Lol Classic. Can't be Amy, or god forbid Sheldon take accountability. Let's displace blame towards the scapegoat of the show Leonard, yayyy. Howard drugged the guy in s2. I'm not seeing an issue with Leonard's comment. I've said before maybe I'm not that invested in the Shamy. So I just saw it as another exaggerated throwaway gag. So I laughed. But I don't think it's fair at all to blame Leonard for anything Shamy do. Like someone said the list of things I'm annoyed at Leonard for this season. That's vague. And I'm guessing Sheldon is faultless? Per usual. In any case I agree with poster saying they have replaced earlier cannon Sheldon. With this inconsistently written, over grown man child. Who treats all his friends like Parents. And Amy now sees Sheldon as something she has to manage. I'm sorry Shamy is the worst thing about this show ATM. They are almost off putting.

[vonmar]

2 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

I never could quite understand how one could get from obvious misfits to any theory of perfect couples. 

I personally don't see Shamy as a perfect couple, but I do think that they are perfect for each other.

[spidergirl]

1 minute ago, vonmar said:

I personally don't see Shamy as a perfect couple, but I do think that they are perfect for each other.

Agree. I don't remember reading someone here saying shamy is perfect and I have been around for last 4 months and half.

[3ku11]

42 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

Agree. I don't remember reading someone here saying shamy is perfect and I have been around for last 4 months and half.

Well clearly they are not perfect. But it's jmo. If we're talking Shamy and choices they made. Or mistakes in writing. I don't like this displacing or shifting blame. I don't like reading. Leonard's at fault. Amy's the one who drugged the guy. Howard drugged the guy in Season 2x01. You know despite being a long running gag that does not bother me. Let's not lose sight of the main issue here. The severe imbalance between Shamy. That the writers need to fix. And also they need to steer writing Sheldon more consistently.

[djsurrey]

52 minutes ago, vonmar said:

I personally don't see Shamy as a perfect couple, but I do think that they are perfect for each other.

Overall I think they are good for each other. Perfect is too strong a word in my opinion.

[sarah7]

20 hours ago, Tensor said:

I rediscovered an article tonight that Mayim wrote just after "The Birthday Sychronicity", where she , praises the writers for looking at consent in relationships.   She also characterizes the Amy/Sheldon relationship as "Special and Respectful" and comments "Our writers again and again have shown themselves to be gloriously skilled at presenting the most important aspects of Amy and Sheldon’s relationship without ever being lecherous, creepy, silly, or disrespectful about it. 

I found it highly ironic considering the very next episode contains Amy drugging Sheldon, without his knowledge, and obviously without his consent.  And I'm not sure how she could praise the writers for being so respectful, when she already knew the very next episode was going to include what amounts to a ruffying of Sheldon.

And before you all jump on my, I agree with the idea of the article.  Consent should be given (and be able to be given) for any sexual acts.  I just, like I said, found it highly ironic. 

But there was nothing even remotely sexual involved in this specific example, which is what Mayim was exclusively talking about, so while I understand your point, I don't think the comparison applies here.

And while I also understand everyone's concerns about the drugging Sheldon thing and I agree it's not an isssue that had to be taken lightly when applied to real life, I think it's being blown out of proportion in this case, it was just a joke (albeit, a quite unfortunate one), and also a recurrent one, everyone and their dog had drugged/manipulated/deceived Sheldon in some way in order to make him more manegeable/tolerable at one point of the show.

I mean, if we start taking all the awful things that had happened in the show in all seriousness, it will certainly reveal itself as a heavy drama/horror show instead of a lighthearted comedy (I mean, all those stories about terrible childhoods, abussive parents, low blows by your friends or partners, etc.)

In all seriousness, what if we see that funny scene with the guys forcefully getting Sheldon inside the van for that bachelor trip as it really was?, they were three men taking another one away completely against his will and he was kicking and screaming in anguish!, what about teenage Penny and her friends tying up and blindfolding that unpopular girl and leaving her alone at a cornfield?, what about young Amy being locked up at a sauna with a horny otter? and we can go on and on.....

Edited January 9, 2017 by sarah7

[Tensor]

 

46 minutes ago, sarah7 said:

But there was nothing even remotely sexual involved in this specific example, which is what Mayim was exclusively talking about, so while I understand your point, I don't think the comparison applies here.

No, it was not, exclusively what she was talking about.  She also praised the writers for how they handle  sensitives subjects.  And also describe the Amy Sheldon relationship as "special and respectful".

46 minutes ago, sarah7 said:

And while I also understand everyone's concerns about the drugging Sheldon thing and I agree it's not an isssue that had to be taken lightly when applied to real life, I think it's being blown out of proportion in this case, it was just a joke (albeit, a quite unfortunate one), it's not like it has not being done before, everyone and their dog had drugged/manipulated/cheated Sheldon in some way in order to make him more manegeable/tolerable at one point of the show.

Just a joke?  So, you would be good with the show doing jokes about rape?  After all, it's just a joke, right?  Isn't this the very thing Mayim was complimenting the writers for not doing?

46 minutes ago, sarah7 said:

I mean, if we start taking all the awful things that had happened in the show in all seriousness, it will certainly reveal itself as a heavy drama/horror show instead of a lighthearted comedy (I mean, all those stories about terrible childhoods, abussive parents, low blows by your friends or partners, etc.)

Look, if she's going to give the writers credit for doing good things, she has to be ready to condemn them for doing the bad things, or she's going to get this kind of flak.   She was aware of the writers having Amy drug Sheldon, when she wrote that piece.  So either do both, or none at all.    

46 minutes ago, sarah7 said:

In all seriousness, what if we see that funny scene with the guys forcefully getting Sheldon inside the van for that bachelor trip as it really was?, they were three men taking another one away completely against his will and he was kicking and screaming in anguish!

As I mentioned, it was not exclussively what she was talking about.  She said, "Our writers again and again have shown themselves to be gloriously skilled at presenting the most important aspects of Amy and Sheldon’s relationship without ever being lecherous, creepy, silly, or disrespectful about it."  

Drugging someone, against their will, is creepy, it is silly, and it is disrespectful.  I guess you can say drugging their partner is not an important aspect of their relationship.  

She was also talking about how they do a wonderful job showing how the Amy and Sheldon relationship is special and respectful.  Special is not a word I would use for a relationship where someone drugs the other, and it's definitely not respectful.

[3ku11]

I just saw it as a harmless running gag. Who cares. We never saw any drugging. If we're talking inconsistencies with what Mayim said. Howard drugged Sheldon in s2. I diddnt recall ppl having a problem with that. Suddenly Amy does it and it's uproar. Rape? When did the show suggest that? I think it's silly to create an illusion over some silly gag of putting Sheldon to sleep. A lot of comedy is exaggeration. Drugging someone's drink so they fall asleep. Is a big leap to a Date Rape Drug. 

Edited January 9, 2017 by Tensor
Removed comments about how other posters view the show.