[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[sarah7]

44 minutes ago, Tensor said:

 

No, it was not, exclusively what she was talking about.  She also praised the writers for how they handle  sensitives subjects.  And also describe the Amy Sheldon relationship as "special and respectful".

Just a joke?  So, you would be good with the show doing jokes about rape?  After all, it's just a joke, right?  Isn't this the very thing Mayim was complimenting the writers for not doing?

Look, if she's going to give the writers credit for doing good things, she has to be ready to condemn them for doing the bad things, or she's going to get this kind of flak.   She was aware of the writers having Amy drug Sheldon, when she wrote that piece.  So either do both, or none at all.    

As I mentioned, it was not exclussively what she was talking about.  She said, "Our writers again and again have shown themselves to be gloriously skilled at presenting the most important aspects of Amy and Sheldon’s relationship without ever being lecherous, creepy, silly, or disrespectful about it."  

Drugging someone, against their will, is creepy, it is silly, and it is disrespectful.  I guess you can say drugging their partner is not an important aspect of their relationship.  

She was also talking about how they do a wonderful job showing how the Amy and Sheldon relationship is special and respectful.  Special is not a word I would use for a relationship where someone drugs the other, and it's definitely not respectful.

Sorry, when did I said I was "good" with them doing jokes about distasteful stuff?

I merely pointed out that I'm suprised at the outrage because this kind of jokes are their speciality. Certainly and thankfully not rape yet as far as I remember (although they had tiptoed the issue by making an alcoholized Penny to be sexually involved with not-so drunk men in two ocassions and treat it like a joke, so...), but they throw away jokes about racism, sexism, bullying and other "niceties" (like spiking your friend's beverages) quite often to go unnoticed.

Believe me, I, unlike Mayim, give the writers very little credit for what they do as lately, and if you want to point your finger at them for their latest misdemeanor, I'm with you man, I'm just suggesting we should add many, many more examples that had occurred during the run of the series, and in the process, we'll probably realize that what we thought were a harmless comedy about a group of good friends was in reality the tale of the betrayals and mischiefs of a group of traumatized jerks.

Just to be clear: First, no, I don't think the drugging your partner thing is a funny joke, even when it wasn't to make him do anything against his will, but just to keep him calm, and I don't think we should give a pass to the writers, call them out for that all you want. And second, I still think that Mayim was referring just to the sexual aspect in her article and that to infere that by "special" she means "perfect" is a stretch, but I respect your opinion, and, after all, the only one who knows what she really meant with that is Mayim herself, and we both are perhaps misreading her words, I mean, how can you be so sure that she already was aware of the drugging Sheldon stuff when she wrote that? how many times had we heard that at least 50% of the stuff we see on screen comes up during the taping and was not initially at the script?

Edited January 9, 2017 by sarah7

[Tensor]

 

42 minutes ago, sarah7 said:

Sorry, when did I said I was "good" with them doing jokes about distasteful stuff?

Well, you were dismissive about the drugging.  Saying it "I think it's being blown out of proportion in this case, it was just a joke (albeit, a quite unfortunate one),"  That makes it appear, to me any what, that as long as it's just a joke, it's OK.  

42 minutes ago, sarah7 said:

I merely pointed out that I'm suprised at the outrage because this kind of jokes are their speciality. Certainly and thankfully not rape yet as far as I remember (although they had tiptoed the issue by making an alcoholized Penny to be sexually involved with not-so drunk men in two ocassions and treat it like a joke, so...), but they throw away jokes about racism, sexism, bullying and other "niceties" (like spiking your friend's beverages) quite often to go unnoticed.

I really didn't have anything to say about it originally, but Mayim praise for the writers is what brought it up, for me.  

42 minutes ago, sarah7 said:

Believe me, I, unlike Mayim, give the writers very little credit for what they do as lately, and if you want to point your finger at them for their latest misdemeanor, I'm with you man, I'm just suggesting we should add many, many more examples that had occurred during the run of the series, and in the process, we'll probably realize that what we thought were a harmless comedy about a group of good friends was in reality the tale of the betrayals and mischiefs of a group of traumatized jerks.

Heheheheh, I sometimes wonder if that isn't what is happening with some of the viewers now.  

42 minutes ago, sarah7 said:

Just to be clear: First, no, I don't think the drugging your partner thing is a funny joke, even when it wasn't to make him do anything against his will, but just to keep him calm, and I don't think we should give a pass to the writers, call them out for that all you want. And second, I still think that Mayim was referring just to the sexual aspect in her article and that to infere that by "special" she means "perfect" is a stretch, but I respect your opinion, and, after all, the only one who knows what she really meant with that is Mayim herself, and we both are perhaps misreading her words, I mean, how can you be so sure that she already was aware of the drugging Sheldon stuff when she wrote that? how many times had we heard that at least 50% of the stuff we see on screen comes up during the taping and was not initially at the script?

I didn't say that she meant Perfect (and if you thought I implied that, my apologies).  My marriage isn't perfect, but I haven't and will never drug my wife, without her permission (I've had to administer drugs for physical problems, but she was aware of it and wanted them).  I don't think that "Special and respectful" means perfect.  

As for her knowing, the taping of this episode had been completed when she wrote that piece.  So, she was aware of what was in the next episode, when she wrote it.  

[rachelshamyfan]

Any clue on when/if annoucement if there will be more seasons? 

 

I don't know if they would wait till the very end of the season?

[JE7]

If this far into the finale year of contracts there hasn't yet been any announcement I would think they are having issues

[April]

2 hours ago, Tensor said:

As for her knowing, the taping of this episode had been completed when she wrote that piece.  So, she was aware of what was in the next episode, when she wrote it.  

To be fair to her: She was answering to a fan letter they got in response to 10x11 and since 10x12 didn't air yet I don't expect her to be like "Spoiler alert: here are my critical thoughts for the episode you'll see in 3 weeks!"

[3ku11]

Jim neogotates on his own doesen't he? Diddnt' they announce Season 8, 9, and 10 in 2014? In the middle of Season 8. I am not sure they well announce three more seasons. I expect Season 11. But at this point. All we got was Kaley on that talk show. Saying "That is a very expensive question". So who the heck knows. IF the show ended this season. I am like that Lenny gif "I hope it kills us". 

Edited January 9, 2017 by 3ku11

[wonder63]

46 minutes ago, JE7 said:

If this far into the finale year of contracts there hasn't yet been any announcement I would think they are having issues

yeah especially with taping only got 3 months to go. 14 tapes this week, 15 and 16 have to be written now right? So only 8 left to do. 

By February sometime the future of the show should be confirmed, otherwise it is writing final episodes. They can't delay it anymore. Unless they come out with saying not everyone is coming back. 

[JE7]

44 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Jim neogotates on his own doesen't he? Diddnt' they announce Season 8, 9, and 10 in 2014? In the middle of Season 8. I am not sure they well announce three more seasons. I expect Season 11. But at this point. All we got was Kaley on that talk show. Saying "That is a very expensive question". So who the heck knows. IF the show ended this season. I am like that Lenny gif "I hope it kills us". 

And last time.e Kaley and Johnny said we will take what Jim gets and I don't expect them to settle for less this time

With the Sheldon centric perspective the show has adopted since the last contract was negotiated I believe he feels he is worth a lot. And since J&K will insist on parity (as they should) it becomes as Kaley said a very expensive question 

[mirs1]

48 minutes ago, JE7 said:

And last time.e Kaley and Johnny said we will take what Jim gets and I don't expect them to settle for less this time

With the Sheldon centric perspective the show has adopted since the last contract was negotiated I believe he feels he is worth a lot. And since J&K will insist on parity (as they should) it becomes as Kaley said a very expensive question 

In the last few weeks Jim has been on various shows because he was advertising Hidden Figures and every time he was asked about new seasons he was very positive about them. My feeling is that his contract is more or less a done deal. I assume this holds also for Kaley and Johnny, since as you said the big three should earn the same amount of money. My guess is that some more problems might arise for the contracts of the secondary characters. Kunal and Simon, for example, might want parity in salary as well; in this very moment they  earn 1 M per episode (as the big three), but at the beginning of the contract that wasn't the case...

Edited January 9, 2017 by mirs1

[JE7]

Jim has a executive producer slot on the Sheldon prequel and he is supposedly the "star and central character" of the show so he can feel pretty good about his position, so I am not surprised he is upbeat, however I can see TBTB hesitating to grant the same deal to the "supporting actors" and yes I mean J&K as they do their breakout star.

The situation is a lot different than last time...

Edited January 9, 2017 by JE7

[3ku11]

1 hour ago, wonder63 said:

yeah especially with taping only got 3 months to go. 14 tapes this week, 15 and 16 have to be written now right? So only 8 left to do. 

By February sometime the future of the show should be confirmed, otherwise it is writing final episodes. They can't delay it anymore. Unless they come out with saying not everyone is coming back. 

Hmmm well if say J and K decide to leave the show. And they continue without them. Well Shamy would prob be the main focal point. They may add a new character. Kinda like when Foreman and Kelso left That 70's Show. But that prob woulden't last very long. So as for the future of the show. I would rather the cast continue the show together, or leave the show together. I hate when cast members leave the show. And are replaced, or not. I mean the final episode, doesen't need to be this massive deal. Could just be an open ended one. With Penny pregnant, or suggested she is. Could end with a Two Parter. Penny tells Leonard she is pregnant. Then the part two final episode. Cuts timeline. And Penny gives birth. The gang leave the apt unit. And the Elevator is being fixed .

[spidergirl]

I dont believe they would continue the show if Johnny and Kaley left. If that happens, then I see this season being the last one, as tbbt would loose all its meaning without them , as they perform main characters. Maybe some viewers might say it could continue without them but in that case imo it would be better  a spinoff with remain characters, which I dont believe it would be a good choice, as these characters work great as they are alltogether with shared plotlines.

Edited January 9, 2017 by spidergirl

[Jonny]

I would like to think they will keep the current format with the full cast as this is the format that works and has made this show a global phenomenon. It just wouldn't feel the same if one or more of them left, they have been together for such a long time and it is such a great cast with so much talent.

But I think all possibilities 'are on the table', we could see the full cast, some actors leave or even the show ending. I guess the elephant in the room is this spinoff, you would think that they would want TBBT running at the same time as this spinoff at least for a season or two. Would their focus on this other project mean this show must continue even if some actors leave? I could see it.

I'm just hoping I wake up one morning and find out that the cast have signed a multi season deal. I believe it was @Tensor a while back who talked about/raised the idea of possibly a two season 24 episodes with an option for a shorter third and final season deal. I would be fine with that, but if we just get one more season at least it gives us an opportunity to get pumped up for the final season and allow the writers to really tie everything off.

I'm just not ready to see this show end, if the show ends this season I will be gutted.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Jonny

[Tonstar17]

I hope Kaley and Johnny do not sign new contracts, considering the way the writers are treating their characters. I have never ever watched a show where a main married couple have no plans for the future and just there to please the ego of another main character and promote the Sheldon Show.They are constantly ignored when its comes to their growth as married couple and individual characters. They bring nothing fresh or original to the show anymore and all they are good for these days, is arguing, bantering or been snarky to each other. There is more to Lenny than that and I don't see any changes to that dynamics in the future of the show. I for one cannot wait to see the back of the show and will be celebrating when it's cancelled or J & K leave for pleasant pastures.




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[Chrismo]

2 hours ago, Jonny said:

I would like to think they will keep the current format with the full cast as this is the format that works and has made this show a global phenomenon. It just wouldn't feel the same if one or more of them left, they have been together for such a long time and it is such a great cast with so much talent.

But I think all possibilities 'are on the table', we could see the full cast, some actors leave or even the show ending. I guess the elephant in the room is this spinoff, you would think that they would want TBBT running at the same time as this spinoff at least for a season or two. Would their focus on this other project mean this show must continue even if some actors leave? I could see it.

I'm just hoping I wake up one morning and find out that the cast have signed a multi season deal. I believe it was @Tensor a while back who talked about/raised the idea of possibly a two season 24 episodes with an option for a shorter third and final season deal. I would be fine with that, but if we just get one more season at least it gives us an opportunity to get pumped up for the final season and allow the writers to really tie everything off.

I'm just not ready to see this show end, if the show ends this season I will be gutted.

First of all the cast "talents" isn't totally used. Only Sheldon's/JP's is. If they minimalized Sheldon for a couple of seasons it could work. If not the rest of the cast should walk.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Chrismo

[hokie3457]

There is an art to writing differing styles of situation comedies.  The Big Bang Theory in the first half of its run was a program that was masterfully written.  (what I am about to say is entirely my opinion....).  For what is probably a slew of reasons, that began to change after season 6.  By that time TBBT had become a staple of syndicated television.  You could watch episodes back to back for nearly 3 hours most nights on TBS and re-live the first few seasons.  Another huge change was the appearance of the characters of first, Bernadette, then Amy.  Finally the change that not many speak about, but which matters a great deal regarding the writing, was the contractual requirement that each of the 7 main cast appear in each episode (remember in Episode 4.11 "The Justice League Recombination" Penny mentions Howard's "girlfriend"--not by name and Amy Farrah Fowler as possible wearers of the Wonder Woman costume---they did not appear).   That, to me, is what has "broken" the writers here.  The prime example of the tragedy of 7 characters needing something to do is the finale for season 8.  The bouncing back and forth between 3/4 story lines made everything seem rushed.  Pacing was off and trying to cram that much show (with extreme cliff-hangers being created) just did not flow and made that episode lacking.

It is difficult to fit full stories for that many cast members into a 18-21 minute time frame.  Seinfeld was able to do it with usually three connected stories meshing into one by the end of an episode, but here often the stories are not related other than things are happening to one close-knit group of people.   

I'm not sure how to "fix" this.  Are there any thoughts, comments, etc.?

[Tonstar17]

First of all the cast "talents" isn't totally used. Only Sheldon's/JP's is. If they minimalized Sheldon for a couple of seasons it could work. If not the rest of the cast should walk.

That's not going to happen. It is officially The Sheldon Show. The only thing left to do is change the name of the show and the lead credits to reflect the change. Johnny and Kaley talent has been wasted for over 3 seasons now. As top actors this is really damaging for future work in the industry or getting decent roles in the future. It's a good thing that they both have their own projects apart from acting. TBBT has made them rich but but in that process TPTB is ruining their profiles at the same time.



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[legacy99]

No he's still here. I've probably disturbed him with my hammering

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[Chrismo]

19 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

That's not going to happen. It is officially The Sheldon Show. The only thing left to do is change the name of the show and the lead credits to reflect the change. Johnny and Kaley talent has been wasted for over 3 seasons now. As top actors this is really damaging for future work in the industry or getting decent roles in the future. It's a good thing that they both have their own projects apart from acting. TBBT has made them rich but but in that process TPTB is ruining their profiles at the same time.



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The Sheldon Show? I see that. JP will never act on a TV series again. Too recognizable. Johnny and Kaley aren't. I don't think their career will be effected at all.

[Carlos]

8 hours ago, April said:

To be fair to her: She was answering to a fan letter they got in response to 10x11 and since 10x12 didn't air yet I don't expect her to be like "Spoiler alert: here are my critical thoughts for the episode you'll see in 3 weeks!"

But to be really fair to her, whether she was answering a fan or not, since she had more information than said fan had, she should, IMO, abstained from saying something that turned out to be at best a blatant misdirection and at worst an outright lie about the way the writers operate. I mean, far be it from me to defend Sheldon or gratuitously attack Amy, but drugging your partner without their consent, and incapacitate him to an extent of having to put him on a cart is NOT respectful and special, and tactful and all the rest of the baloney Mayim mentioned. If you can't say anything for fear of giving away spoilers, then don't (not you, Mayim, I mean).

[hokie3457]

4 minutes ago, Carlos said:

But to be really fair to her, whether she was answering a fan or not, since she had more information than said fan had, she should, IMO, abstained from saying something that turned out to be at best a blatant misdirection and at worst an outright lie about the way the writers operate. I mean, far be it from me to defend Sheldon or gratuitously attack Amy, but drugging your partner without their consent, and incapacitate him to an extent of having to put him on a cart is NOT respectful and special, and tactful and all the rest of the baloney Mayim mentioned. If you can't say anything for fear of giving away spoilers, then don't (not you, Mayim, I mean).

One thing to say in Mayim's defense is that we don't know if she was requested to make an answer in that particular way.  I really think that many things released to the media, including things said by cast members, are extremely controlled.  It could be that TPTB wanted certain kind of information released regarding that episode and contractually, Mayim was required to comply......

[Carlos]

1 minute ago, hokie3457 said:

One thing to say in Mayim's defense is that we don't know if she was requested to make an answer in that particular way.  I really think that many things released to the media, including things said by cast members, are extremely controlled.  It could be that TPTB wanted certain kind of information released regarding that episode and contractually, Mayim was required to comply......

I respectfully disagree with you, Hokie. I know it is all conjecture by us because we don't really know, but I think that while Mayim might be contractually obligated to not say anything bad about TBBT, I'm not so sure that she might be required to answer something in a specific way.

[hokie3457]

1 minute ago, Carlos said:

I respectfully disagree with you, Hokie. I know it is all conjecture by us because we don't really know, but I think that while Mayim might be contractually obligated to not say anything bad about TBBT, I'm not so sure that she might be required to answer something in a specific way.

Fair point, Carlos.  From what I know of Chuck Lorre, he is a huge "micro-manager" and I wouldn't put it past him to "control the message" of The Big Bang Theory in all possible ways.  Of course of all people, Mayim is probably the least "managable" she is very outspoken and is never afraid to have her opinion known.....

[April]

19 minutes ago, Carlos said:

But to be really fair to her, whether she was answering a fan or not, since she had more information than said fan had, she should, IMO, abstained from saying something that turned out to be at best a blatant misdirection and at worst an outright lie about the way the writers operate. I mean, far be it from me to defend Sheldon or gratuitously attack Amy, but drugging your partner without their consent, and incapacitate him to an extent of having to put him on a cart is NOT respectful and special, and tactful and all the rest of the baloney Mayim mentioned. If you can't say anything for fear of giving away spoilers, then don't (not you, Mayim, I mean).

Well, it's her blog and she's entitled to write about any topic she likes. And in this case she was specifically talking about consent in sexual situations and clearly she was very pleased with how that was handled in that specific episode. It's indeed unfortunate that the joke in 10x12 goes so much against what she (and many fans) liked in 10x11 so in hindsight her post gains a somewhat awkward twist, no denying that. But that doesn't mean the praise for what the writers got right in 10x11 is undeserved or not allowed to be expressed in any way. The show always had terrible jokes and I guess she does what most of us do: Ignore the bad stuff as much as possible and hope the writers will do better next time.

[Chrismo]

49 minutes ago, April said:

Well, it's her blog and she's entitled to write about any topic she likes. And in this case she was specifically talking about consent in sexual situations and clearly she was very pleased with how that was handled in that specific episode. It's indeed unfortunate that the joke in 10x12 goes so much against what she (and many fans) liked in 10x11 so in hindsight her post gains a somewhat awkward twist, no denying that. But that doesn't mean the praise for what the writers got right in 10x11 is undeserved or not allowed to be expressed in any way. The show always had terrible jokes and I guess she does what most of us do: Ignore the bad stuff as much as possible and hope the writers will do better next time.

But if she doesn't comment on 10x12 she just looks foolish.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Tensor
removed derogatory comment