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[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10


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6 minutes ago, Judith said:

1) You're describing feminism as some pesky PC thing that the writers thankfully avoided. I'd say I'm surprised but I'm really not. And I bet you're glad about it.

To be honest, it amuses me to read all the butthurt comments while my initial post was just about how the girls simply don't like Star Wars, which is why they didn't go to see the movie. According to some people, the girls have to love Star Wars, too. The girls are not allowed to get all sexed up. The girls are not allowed to talk about the pregnancy while the boys do something career related. Basically all the non-twisted stuff is wrong. WHY? Can't they just do what they want? The fact that the show is not like that makes me happy, deal with it. I like the show the way it is.

26 minutes ago, Judith said:

Bernadette might be pregnant but she's also a human being.

Wow, I did not know that, thanks for the clarification. :icon_rolleyes: The fact that I don't think women should be working during their pregnancy for their own well-being makes me look like a monster.

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1 minute ago, FileXxX said:

To be honest, it amuses me to read all the butthurt comments while my initial post was just about how the girls simply don't like Star Wars, which is why they didn't go to see the movie. According to some people, the girls have to love Star Wars, too. The girls are not allowed to get all sexed up. The girls are not allowed to talk about the pregnancy while the boys do something career related. Basically all the non-twisted stuff is wrong. WHY? Can't they just do what they want? The fact that the show is not like that makes me happy, deal with it. I like the show the way it is.

If you stopped your comment after the Star Wars bit most people here would probably have agreed with you, given you a few likes and that's about it. It's the snipe against the "feminists' paradise" that was completely unnecessary.

1 minute ago, FileXxX said:

Wow, I did not know that, thanks for the clarification. :icon_rolleyes: The fact that I don't think women should be working during their pregnancy for their own well-being makes me look like a monster.

How about you let them make that decision themselves?? Most pregnant women are capable and willing to work through most of their pregnancy and that is okay. As long as there are no objections for their and their babies well being I don't see the problem. From the TR I got the impression that there are no issues, health or otherwise, with Bernie working on that project. Nothing to worry about.

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1 minute ago, April said:

How about you let them make that decision themselves??

Who said they can't? Just because I don't think they should, doesn't mean they can't. But if the company would've said no, then yeah, there's nothing you can do about it.

And I certainly don't need people to agree with me. I was just voicing my own opinion, whether you like it or not.

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4 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

1) To be honest, it amuses me to read all the butthurt comments while my initial post was just about how the girls simply don't like Star Wars, which is why they didn't go to see the movie. According to some people, the girls have to love Star Wars, too. The girls are not allowed to get all sexed up. The girls are not allowed to talk about the pregnancy while the boys do something career related. Basically all the non-twisted stuff is wrong. WHY? Can't they just do what they want? The fact that the show is not like that makes me happy, deal with it. I like the show the way it is.

2)Wow, I did not know that, thanks for the clarification. :icon_rolleyes: The fact that I don't think women should be working during their pregnancy for their own well-being makes me look like a monster.

1) I don't see any butthurt comments about this, unless you mean people not agreeing with you and taking issue with what you wrote because they find it problematic means they're butthurt. If you want to though, I could direct you to some very butthurt comments in this very forum.

The girls like anyone else are allowed to talk about the pregnancy or whatever else they want. The problem is that whenever someone wants to raise a point about a problematic situation that has to do with sexism/racism/etc there are always some typical answers that offer nothing to the conversation and only serve as a way to derail from it or dismiss the complaints. When someone says "I don't like that the girls always drink wine and the boys talk about their careers" it's a legitimate complaint to make because we live in a society were these stereotypes exist and are all over our TVs (since we're talking about a TV show). Coming up with something like "Well, why shouldn't they do that? Aren't they allowed?" is pointless because no one is saying that they can't do it. The point is that most of the time that's all they do.

LOL - I don't need to deal with anything, tyvm. I think that you have some stuff that you need to deal with but I don't know you so yeah...

2) You're welcome :) .

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10 minutes ago, April said:

How about you let them make that decision themselves?? Most pregnant women are capable and willing to work through most of their pregnancy and that is okay. As long as there are no objections for their and their babies well being I don't see the problem. From the TR I got the impression that there are no issues, health or otherwise, with Bernie working on that project. Nothing to worry about.

BTW, the regulations about paid maternity leaves in USA are by no means as liberal as the ones in other Countries, so often it's not even a choice whether to work or not over there. In Bernie's case, she has always made it clear that she wanted to be a working mum and I can't imagine a plot in some upcoming episodes about possible damages to her baby's health due to her job...It's a sit-com!!

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3 minutes ago, Judith said:

When someone says "I don't like that the girls always drink wine and the boys talk about their careers" it's a legitimate complaint to make because we live in a society were these stereotypes exist and are all over our TVs (since we're talking about a TV show). Coming up with something like "Well, why shouldn't they do that? Aren't they allowed?" is pointless because no one is saying that they can't do it. The point is that most of the time that's all they do.

You're right, no one is saying that they can't do it, but you're basically implying that it's wrong to do it this way. I don't see it that way. Me criticising these people is just as legitimate as you criticising these "stereotypes" and it's just as pointless. Even if that's all they do most of the time, it's the story they want to tell, not the story other people want to tell.

 

9 minutes ago, Judith said:

I think that you have some stuff that you need to deal with but I don't know you so yeah...

Don't worry. From my point of view, the same thing applies to you.

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Well TBBT is not Veronica Mars, but given where it's started from it could be worse. Good ol' Sheldon will look after the PC content.. Leonard  (except for his fall) is generally civil and rational.

Regarding "butthurt"... I always think about that bit in Bruce Almighty with the monkey... but I really don't want to. :(

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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32 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

You're right, no one is saying that they can't do it, but you're basically implying that it's wrong to do it this way.

 

Not really. As Judith points out, saying 'why is this the only story they tell?' Is not the same thing as saying 'they should NEVER tell this story'. It just means 'mix it up a little'.

37 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

. Even if that's all they do most of the time, it's the story they want to tell, not the story other people want to tell.

 

I don't think any of us is denying that it's the writers' story, and they have a right to tell it as they like. Equally we are under no obligation to like, or dislike, the story. If the show ended with the gang turning into zombies who time travel back into.Regency London, they would have the right to do it. But if critics and viewers hated it, they would have the right to say so.

And quite a few people on fora like these enjoy exchanging opinions and analysis without entertaining any idea that our wishlists or criticisms would ever make it onto the screen. The point is frequently the exchange.

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9 hours ago, wowbagger said:
I don't think any of us is denying that it's the writers' story, and they have a right to tell it as they like. Equally we are under no obligation to like, or dislike, the story. If the show ended with the gang turning into zombies who time travel back into.Regency London, they would have the right to do it. But if critics and viewers hated it, they would have the right to say so.

And quite a few people on fora like these enjoy exchanging opinions and analysis without entertaining any idea that our wishlists or criticisms would ever make it onto the screen. The point is frequently the exchange.

Just because you agree with Judith doesn't mean its right.

Edited by Tripper
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3 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

What is so wrong if this show became a feminist show? Because God forbid the girls are Equals to the men? I don't see that as a big deal. I Think the original point was, that they should of utilized Penny and Bernie more in the ON ep. Females do like SW. Step outside the box a bit more. No comparison to SW 7. Rey is the main female lead, and the main protagonist. BBT is a universe full of 3, orginally one female. I just don't think it would be that awful, if the girls showed interest in SW too, that is all. 

GO SKULL!

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4 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

To everyone saying it would be OOC for the girls to geek out, um Bakersfeild 

In an attempt to try and relate to their partners interests and see what it was all about. I know there was no follow up but I came to the conclusion that they got briefly sucked into that world but they didn't develop a real interest into it.

In terms of the Star Wars thing like others have said previously in the thread the girls haven't really shown a big interest in sci-fi. Penny always seem to moan about reluctantly having to watch stuff like Dr Who then there was that time when Leonard tried to get her into Buffy. Amy has called Star Trek and Star Wars stupid in the past or got them mixed up, Bernadette hasn't really shown any interest whatsoever. It would have been weird to me if they suddenly had really gotten into it even because of a strong female lead in the new film. Now I am all for them doing some different activities instead of drinking wine in 4B a lot of the time but it also has to be realistic, that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of other things they could do instead.

Edited by Jonny83
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26 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Not really. As Judith points out, saying 'why is this the only story they tell?' Is not the same thing as saying 'they should NEVER tell this story'. It just means 'mix it up a little'.

I don't think any of us is denying that it's the writers' story, and they have a right to tell it as they like. Equally we are under no obligation to like, or dislike, the story. If the show ended with the gang turning into zombies who time travel back into.Regency London, they would have the right to do it. But if critics and viewers hated it, they would have the right to say so.

And quite a few people on fora like these enjoy exchanging opinions and analysis without entertaining any idea that our wishlists or criticisms would ever make it onto the screen. The point is frequently the exchange.

"Regency London"?  Hehe . Should I be looking for River Song or Clara to pop up too. That'd be cool. And I like the idea of  TBBT  & Zombies as a mashup. Penny et al with Shaolin chops, huzzah!

But really, how mixed up can this product be? They have a  generally consistent formulation, though they changed it incrementally. Sheldon has incremented himself bigly, for instance. Maybe if they go to s13 they can fully increment their way to gender parity. If it's funny and worthy then yay!

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56 minutes ago, Lionne said:

1) I think it's disappointing that a show with such a strong representation of awesome, loveable male characters who are deeply enmeshed in "nerd culture" could not have created at least one example of a female character among the 3 leads who also loves comic books, superheroes, video games, Scifi, and etc. There's a lot of women out there with quirky, intellectual, nerdy interests and if a show was ever going to show and embrace a female character like that it could have been this one.

Now, Amy has her awesome "days of yore" passions, which I love about her. It's not wrong that the show didn't take the opportunity to go in this direction, but sometimes when all three girls are  cracking jokes or mocking those interests, while guzzling away the red wine, I feel it's an awfully sexist divide (guys love their geeky passions! Girls huff and roll their eyes) and it's very stereotypical and certainly not very fresh or original. 

2) And that's the point - if you don't keep your show fresh, take some risks, and are so lazy you fall back on the usual tropes and stereotypes for your jokes and plot lines, you're in trouble. People want to see something new, and you need to have something that is unique and feels fresh or it's about time to throw in the towel or just become Full House.

TBBT is at their 10th season, they seem clear on going for at least 11, and possibly more. In the meantime, nerd culture has gone way more mainstream - the top grossing movies are all superhero, fantasy, etc, a good old romance like Titanic in the Gone With the Wind vein is a rarity these days - the characters have grown up and their lives have changed, and the show is going to have to dig a little more to stay fresh and relevant. Sticking to male/female stereotypes, particularly with a pregnancy plot going on (one of the oldest in the book), isn't going to help keep the show alive. 

I just think that the show desperately needs a little kick, a little more willingness to shake things up. It's only one episode so far, though, (well, two....from this we can assume the wedding is funny but nothing changes from it) so we don't know what's coming. This episode is fine, but I hope there's more coming down the line than this. 

Hmm yeah I agree. I always wanted a Hot, Female, Geeky, Nerdy character in this show. I always thought Alice from S5. Could of fit the bill. But then again if their is a geeky, charming female in the group. Woulden't that make Penny a tad jealous lol? So maybe TPTB never thought that far. It is season ten, and they already added Amy and Bernadette. Maybe a missed oppurtunity? Probably. I think BBT was at the peak of surgance of Geek and Nerd Culture. But your right its now cool to be a Geek. Not only BBT is a Geek, the whole world is. They are going to try to be more relevant and fresh. 

Edited by 3ku11
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They aren't going to introduce another female character to the show to fill that geeky or nerdy niche. Maybe Raj might end up going out with someone like that but that person won't be a major character. And it's not like you can just radically change an existing character.

I don't see a problem here, what is that old saying Opposites attract'. The girls don't have to be like the guys or share the same interests.

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15 minutes ago, Jonny83 said:

They aren't going to introduce another female character to the show to fill that geeky or nerdy niche. Maybe Raj might end up going out with someone like that but that person won't be a major character. And it's not like you can just radically change an existing character.

I don't see a problem here, what is that old saying Opposites attract'. The girls don't have to be like the guys or share the same interests.

I don't think that was the point being made. Of course the already estblished female characters don't have to like the guys interests, I think thats beside the point. Just in theory, the show really is relying on sterotypes and old sitcom tropes. Because of how established the show is. The girls eye rolling at the guys. Just be nice seeing TBBT is prob the only show who could have a female geeky character, be outside the box a bit. Obviousley now they can't, but just saying show missed the boat on this one. 

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35 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

Unsurprisingly, I agree with Lio that there is s sign of creative stagnation in the 'boys do this, girls do this' way of thinking. I think there are going to be a few tangents/ ways to hijack the argument, so let me lay out my own position:

a ) there is nothing wrong with liking, or not liking, comic books/ science/ [insert marker of geeky interests here]

b ) specifically, there is nothing wrong with LADYPEOPLE liking, or not liking, etc. Etc. Etc.

c ) There is nothing wrong with liking a little variety. Specifically, this is a long-running show, and it is a good sign if writers can find ways to keep things moving and fresh, while remaining true to the characters they have created.

d ) One of the ways a show like TBBT can explore the situations inherent in its gender-mixed cast is to have science plots spread more evenly among its cast.

e ) For example, two of its female cast members who are, you know, scientists, and one of whom works in the same organisation as the non scientist.

f ) People do acquire interests / hobbies from friends and significant others. For example, Amy acquired an interest in wine and gossip from her gal pals. Similarly, it is not impossible for the girls to acquire some interest in pop culture from their partners. Or, by the way, for the boys to pick up some interest in wine from the girls.

g ) Saying 'mix it up a little. Let the girls have science plots/nerdy interests' is NOT the same thing as saying 'women are never ever allowed to be interested in wine/gossip/ romantic comedies/fashion/afternoon tea/ whatever'. It is NOT saying 'women are ONLY allowed to be interested in science/comic books/whatever'. 'also' is NOT the same thing as 'instead'.

h ) especially since, hey! Girls CAN be interested in these things! You have girls in the cast. There is no real reason that they cannot have specific interests, which can be nerdy even if they are not identical to star wars/ trek. You have more female comic book creators now than before. Interesting female characters everywhere, in comic books and elsewhere. Why not play around with that sort of thing?

I guess you want some...:shy:cheers

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4 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

"Regency London"?  Hehe . Should I be looking for River Song or Clara to pop up too. That'd be cool. And I like the idea of  TBBT  & Zombies as a mashup. Penny et al with Shaolin chops, huzzah!

But really, how mixed up can this product be? They have a  generally consistent formulation, though they changed it incrementally. Sheldon has incremented himself bigly, for instance. Maybe if they go to s13 they can fully increment their way to gender parity. If it's funny and worthy then yay!

That would be a great stuff for a tbbt movie! I love it!  Zangen has developed a sleeping pill that turns everyone into a zombie Except  Our beloved characters, because they know Bernadettes company and their methods. While they face the thousands of undead everyone has their special weapon  they use against the undead.  Bernadette kills them with her voice and a giant megaphone that makes their heads explode like watermelons,  while Raj feeds Cinnamon with Sheldon's Texas Chili until it shoots out of her,  and Raj uses her as a Cannon. Unfortunately Raj runs out of Chili and Bernie gets hoarse,  so Raj calls Sandra Bullock for help. But she has a short appearance because Howard pushes her into the crowd of hungry zombies who don't hesitate to eat her, while Howardette and Raj use the opportunity to run away.  Raj asks Howard why he did that,  which he replies: "Well she saved us,  didn't she?" And while they run away,  Leonard flies by,  Penny sitting on his back. Leonard flies, due to the gases that are coming out of him, because he has eaten enough yogurt that he has enough fuel to cross the ocean.  They grab Pennys  long  heels and fly with them. And what are Shamy doing? Well Amy scans the undead's brains to decipher the key to immortality while Sheldon annoys the other zombies until they commit suicide voluntarily. 

Edited by Desdemona
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Perhaps time could have been saved by starting with Sheldon's lecture, except, that could just create more zombies.

BTW, I loathe all zombie movies. Society does not need encouragement to think of people as sub human. 

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59 minutes ago, Desdemona said:

That would be a great stuff for a tbbt movie! I love it!  Zangen has developed a sleeping pill that turns everyone into a zombie Except  Our beloved characters, because they know Bernadettes company and their methods. While they face the thousands of undead everyone has their special weapon  they use against the undead.  Bernadette kills them with her voice and a giant megaphone that makes their heads explode like watermelons,  while Raj feeds Cinnamon with Sheldon's Texas Chili until it shoots out of her,  and Raj uses her as a Cannon. Unfortunately Raj runs out of Chili and Bernie gets hoarse,  so Raj calls Sandra Bullock for help. But she has a short appearance because Howard pushes her into the crowd of hungry zombies who don't hesitate to eat her, while Howardette and Raj use the opportunity to run away.  Raj asks Howard why he did that,  which he replies: "Well she saved us,  didn't she?" And while they run away,  Leonard flies by,  Penny sitting on his back. Leonard flies, due to the gases that are coming out of him, because he has eaten enough yogurt that he has enough fuel to cross the ocean.  They grab Pennys  long  heels and fly with them. And what are Shamy doing? Well Amy scans the undead's brains to decipher the key to immortality while Sheldon annoys the other zombies until they commit suicide voluntarily. 

Oh, come on! Please replace a space in the writers room… :icon_biggrin:

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1 hour ago, veejay said:

Oh, come on! Please replace a space in the writers room… :icon_biggrin:

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Aww, thank you Veejay! :icon_redface: I would love to sit at least once at the writers table and develop a script for an episode with them. As long as they would let me write one small  scene. I would do it for a Ticket to the US and for a personal meeting with the actors. Well a woman can dream. :shy:

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