[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[Tensor]

2 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

Well, she said it's a lot of pressure to make the night special and it never works out, and that's probably the reason why she said it sucks, but that certainly doesn't mean she hates Valentine's Day, especially since we've seen her enjoying it quite a lot.

Saying it sucks, is closer to hating Valentine's day, than it is to enjoying Valentine's Day.  And she enjoy's it?

Lets see, the Valentine's Days they've shown:

3.15  Spends Valentine's day sick and taking care of Sheldon, instead of being in Switzerland.

6.16  Makes the "Valentine's day sucks" comment.  Spends it seeing her ex propose, and then spends most of the rest of the night arguing with Leonard.  At least they talked through the problem, without needing an RA.

7.15  Penny gets Leonard free chocolates and eats some of them, while Leonard gets her Laker tickets.  Yeah, Penny is really trying, isn't she?

They then spend the rest of the night at the vets, arguing over what "a while" is.  

I'm not quite sure where "enjoying it quite a lot" is here.  

1 hour ago, spidergirl said:

I hate people being sad, whatever the ship could be or if they are sad often or not. So I am optimistic for this time the laughs can be because funny non sense and everyone be good. It is enough for lenny be on conflict and there is unnecessary put the other ships and Raj on conflict. It may be a very refreshing episode for be remembered for the best reasons.

As you can see, the track record of the writers, in regards to having a good valentines day for Lenny isn't all that great.  Hence the reason for thinking it won't be good for them.  We're usually hopeful, but it hasn't been promising.  

[djsurrey]

I'd like a couple fun episodes not about relationships... 

[Chrismo]

9 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Saying it sucks, is closer to hating Valentine's day, than it is to enjoying Valentine's Day.  And she enjoy's it?

Lets see, the Valentine's Days they've shown:

3.15  Spends Valentine's day sick and taking care of Sheldon, instead of being in Switzerland.

6.16  Makes the "Valentine's day sucks" comment.  Spends it seeing her ex propose, and then spends most of the rest of the night arguing with Leonard.  At least they talked through the problem, without needing an RA.

7.15  Penny gets Leonard free chocolates and eats some of them, while Leonard gets her Laker tickets.  Yeah, Penny is really trying, isn't she?

They then spend the rest of the night at the vets, arguing over what "a while" is.  

I'm not quite sure where "enjoying it quite a lot" is here.  

Leonard really wanted to share that bed with Raj instead of Penny. Wasn't the gas station giving away free Laker tickets?

[spidergirl]

11 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Saying it sucks, is closer to hating Valentine's day, than it is to enjoying Valentine's Day.  And she enjoy's it?

Lets see, the Valentine's Days they've shown:

3.15  Spends Valentine's day sick and taking care of Sheldon, instead of being in Switzerland.

6.16  Makes the "Valentine's day sucks" comment.  Spends it seeing her ex propose, and then spends most of the rest of the night arguing with Leonard.  At least they talked through the problem, without needing an RA.

7.15  Penny gets Leonard free chocolates and eats some of them, while Leonard gets her Laker tickets.  Yeah, Penny is really trying, isn't she?

They then spend the rest of the night at the vets, arguing over what "a while" is.  

I'm not quite sure where "enjoying it quite a lot" is here.  

As you can see, the track record of the writers, in regards to having a good valentines day for Lenny isn't all that great.  Hence the reason for thinking it won't be good for them.  We're usually hopeful, but it hasn't been promising.  

I know but I can't stop to be optimist, for my sake as viewer of a show I love. I was not in forum yet when shamy was broken up and my behavior every week was keeping hope that they would work their issues out. I know both couples are very different and their relationships develpments has nothing in common. I believe writers will fix the damages they have been doing to lenny, maybe it can start from the tonight's taping and lenny has a nice Valentine's, who knows.

My initial point was there is unnecessary  imo expecting conflict to another ship but lenny for the episode could be refreshing.  In about 200 and something  episodes of tbbt, there are lots of episodes without open conflict between the couples. Tonight may be one of them.

[Chrismo]

4 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

I know but I can't stop to be optimist, for my sake as viewer of a show I love. I was not in forum yet when shamy was broken up and my behavior every week was keeping hope that they would work their issues out. I know both couples are very different and their relationships develpments has nothing in common. I believe writers will fix the damages they have been doing to lenny, maybe it can start from the tonight's taping and lenny has a nice Valentine's, who knows.

My initial point was there is unnecessary  imo expecting conflict to another ship but lenny for the episode could be refreshing.  In about 200 and something  episodes of tbbt, there are lots of episodes without open conflict between the couples. Tonight may be one of them.

JMO but I think it may be easier to be an optimist if you are a Shamy fan than a Lenny fan. 

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Saying it sucks, is closer to hating Valentine's day, than it is to enjoying Valentine's Day.  And she enjoy's it?

Lets see, the Valentine's Days they've shown:

3.15  Spends Valentine's day sick and taking care of Sheldon, instead of being in Switzerland.

6.16  Makes the "Valentine's day sucks" comment.  Spends it seeing her ex propose, and then spends most of the rest of the night arguing with Leonard.  At least they talked through the problem, without needing an RA.

7.15  Penny gets Leonard free chocolates and eats some of them, while Leonard gets her Laker tickets.  Yeah, Penny is really trying, isn't she?

They then spend the rest of the night at the vets, arguing over what "a while" is.  

I'm not quite sure where "enjoying it quite a lot" is here.   

3.15 Whether she gets sick or not is really beyond her power, isn't it? Shit happens. She was very happy to spend Valentine's Day with Leonard in Switzerland.

6.16 Yes, she does, but later she admits why she acted like that. 

7.15 It doesn't matter how expensive the gifts were. It's the thought that counts. She got him free chocolate and ate a few, so what? I think that's adorable. Besides, they're clearly enjoying Valentine's Day in the beginning, until they have to take care of Raj's dog, which is again not what they had planned for the evening. And I wouldn't call their conversations at the vet "arguing".

In 9.15? They spent their evening together and had a great time doing simple stuff. They even happily ran around in Valentine's costumes. Is that a way to express one's hate for Valentine's Day I don't know about?

[luminous]

16 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

JMO but I think it may be easier to be an optimist if you are a Shamy fan than a Lenny fan. 

Well, I'm a Lenny to the core and I'm an optimist. The optimists in the Lenny camp are a minority, that's for sure, but they exist.

 

Edited January 17, 2017 by luminous

[spidergirl]

1 minute ago, Chrismo said:

JMO but I think it may be easier to be an optimist if you are a Shamy fan than a Lenny fan. 

I was an optimist before I found tbbt, so the way I approach things is the same.

About shamy, I  had dark times as shipper in s9 and there were times in past that I was afraid that they could not express their feelings in a proper way for they had evolution in their relationship. I feel your pain right now but as a viewer who loves the show like you, let's root for it keeps going for our ships realy can anchieve the best for them and the conflict non sense doesnt come up just because.

[Chrismo]

Just now, luminous said:

Well, I'm a Lenny to the core and I'm a optimist. The optimists in the Lenny camp are a minority, that's for sure, but they exist.

Not disagreeing. I'm just comparing. Hoping to be proven wrong.

[Tensor]

 

17 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

I was an optimist before I found tbbt, so the way I approach things is the same.

About shamy, I  had dark times as shipper in s9 and there were times in past that I was afraid that they could not express their feelings in a proper way for they had evolution in their relationship. I feel your pain right now but as a viewer who loves the show like you, let's root for it keeps going for our ships realy can anchieve the best for them and the conflict non sense doesnt come up just because.

I can understand that.  But we, in the Lenny camp had dark time in seasons three, four, and five.  Then they got back together, but it was shaky until season six.  In season six, they talked about their problems, they worked through their problems, and got to a better place.   Even in season seven, they talked.  Then came season eight, and they weren't even on the screen that much, the engagement was hardly mentioned,  and then we find out Leonard was kissing another woman.  Season 9 was a bit better, but not by much, this year hasn't been all that good, so far, for them.  I just don't see where the optimism should come from for Lennys.  

[legacy99]

I used to be hope for the best and expect the worst now i just hope its not to bad

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[luminous]

1 hour ago, Tensor said:

 I just don't see where the optimism should come from for Lennys.  

Then why am I still an optimist? Am I not a Lenny?

Edited January 17, 2017 by luminous
I have to improve my knowledge of english grammar

[spidergirl]

1 minute ago, luminous said:

Then why am I still an optimist? Am I not a Lenny?

No worries. You are a true Lenny and once optimist, always optimist.

[Tensor]

 

25 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

3.15 Whether she gets sick or not is really beyond her power, isn't it? Shit happens. She was very happy to spend Valentine's Day with Leonard in Switzerland.

But, she didn't enjoy Valentine's Day.

25 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

6.16 Yes, she does, but later she admits why she acted like that..

Which means for most of the day, she wasn't enjoying it.  And I mentioned that they talked it out, in my original post.  

25 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

7.15 It doesn't matter how expensive the gifts were. It's the thought that counts. She got him free chocolate and ate a few, so what? I think that's adorable. Besides, they're clearly enjoying Valentine's Day in the beginning, until they have to take care of Raj's dog, which is again not what they had planned for the evening. And I wouldn't call their conversations at the vet "arguing".

Yeah, and there was apparently no thought put in for the gift, by Penny.   Oh, I got gas, and I got a free box of chocolates, there's my Valentines day gift for Leonard.  And then she eats them?  And whether or not it was planned, they didn't enjoy the day all that much.  Not arguing, ok, snarky comments by Penny about Leonard's performance in bed.  

 

25 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

In 9.15? They spent their evening together and had a great time doing simple stuff. They even happily ran around in Valentine's costumes. Is that a way to express one's hate for Valentine's Day I don't know about?

Yeah, sorry, I missed this one.  But even here, there wasn't much enjoyment.  Penny wasn't happy at the restaurant.  She wasn't happy in the car.  They were happy when they were jumping around in their costumes, but went back to being unhappy when they had to clean up.  The majority of time in that episode was them not enjoying the day.  

[john2p]

Do I like tbbt as a comedy nowadays? Not as much I did in the first three seasons, because back than it was very refreshing and new to me. I admit, it is mostly based on sentiments and subjective motives rather on logic or scientific approved methods. I am a nostalgic guy and think most things of my youth-adolescence is the best there was (t.v., movies, music, sport etc). Are there any really good norms and values to describe comedy anyway? 

Anyhow I do enjoy the current season, more than 8 and 9. What I like, and I can´t repeat it enough is the imho really outstanding acting of Johnny, Kaley and Mayim. I love their timing and delivering of their punchlines, their facial expressions and physical acting. I find Howardette sweet. Stuart I got mixed feelings. And Raj has lost it for me, due to the bad writing of his storylines. Jim, is for me the most dissapointing. And not because I am irritated by his ongoing presence to Lenny, that is the writers to be blamed for. But I really appreciated his acting. And his awards all are well deserved, but this season he is (very close) to overacting. Where he was brilliant in his quircks. Now he is really exaggerating in his way of acting. For instance how he kicked the rock and injured him self. I have seen school plays, where kids did act this better. 

So to me this season has many highs and lows, but the amplitude is way larger and bigger than in the first 3-4 seasons. So it´s kinda expressing my mixed feelings and the lack of balance in the storys. But I guess the writers have a very difficult context to write for. Not knowing they are writing for the big and grand Finale or another one or two seasons. 

Edited January 17, 2017 by john2p

[Tensor]

8 minutes ago, luminous said:

Then why am I still an optimist? Am I not a Lenny?

I didn't say that Lenny weren't optimists.  I said I (Myself, me, not anyone else) didn't see where the optimism should come from, for a Valentine's Day episode.  If you see where there should be optimism, feel free.  I just was talking about what I (me, myself, no one else) didn't see, based on previous Valentine's Day shows.  If you think I mentioned that Lennys weren't optimists, please point it out and I'll correct it.  

[luminous]

48 minutes ago, Tensor said:

I didn't say that Lenny weren't optimists.  I said I (Myself, me, not anyone else) didn't see where the optimism should come from.  If you see where there should be optimism, feel free.  I just was talking about what I (me, myself, no one else) didn't see.  If you think I mentioned that Lennys weren't optimists, please point it out and I'll correct it.  

You wrote "I just don't see where the optimism should come from for Lennys.", not "I just don't see where the optimism should come from for me"

Edited January 17, 2017 by luminous
I have to improve my knowledge of english grammar

[veejay]

8 minutes ago, john2p said:

Do I like tbbt as a comedy nowadays? Not as much I did in the first three seasons, because back than it was very refreshing and new to me. I admit, it is mostly based on sentiments and subjective motives rather on logic or scientific approved methods. I am a nostalgic guy and think most things of my youth-adolescence is the best there was (t.v., movies, music, sport etc). Are there any really good norms and values to describe comedy anyway? 

Anyhow I do enjoy the current season, more than 8 and 9. What I like, and I can´t repeat it enough is the imho really outstanding acting of Johnny, Kaley and Mayim. I love their timing and delivering of their punchlines, their facial expressions and physical acting. I find Howardette sweet. Stuart I got mixed feelings. And Raj has lost it for me, due to the bad writing of his storylines. Jim, is for me the most dissapointing. And not because I am irritated by his ongoing presence to Lenny, that is the writers to be blamed for. But I really appreciated his acting. And his awards all are well deserved, but this season he is (very close) to overacting. Where he was brilliant in his quircks. Now he is really exaggerating in his way of acting. For instance how he kicked the rock and injured him self. I have seen school plays, where kids did act this better. 

So to me this season has many highs and lows, but the amplitude is way larger and bigger than in the first 3-4 seasons. So it´s kinda expressing my mixed feelings and the lack of balance in the storys. But I guess the writers have a very difficult context to write for. Not knowing they are writing for the big and grand Finale or another one or two seasons. 

This...! Thank you. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Tensor said:

But, she didn't enjoy Valentine's Day.

She would not have enjoyed the day, even if it was any other day, simply because she was sick. That coincidentally happened on Valentine's Day, but that's no indicator that she doesn't enjoy Valentine's Day in general. She just didn't enjoy this one because she was sick. That doesn't make her say "I hate Valentine's Day".

6 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Yeah, and there was apparently no thought put in for the gift, by Penny.   Oh, I got gas, and I got a free box of chocolates, there's my Valentines day gift for Leonard.  And then she eats them?

It made Leonard happy, so what's the deal? I don't think he really cared all that much. He was fine with sex on Christmas eve and that's something they have more than just once a year.

15 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Yeah, sorry, I missed this one.  But even here, there wasn't much enjoyment.

I think there was lots of enjoyment.

[Tensor]

8 minutes ago, luminous said:

You wrote "I just don't see where the optimism should come from for Lennys.", not "I just don't see where the optimism should come from for me"

Like I said.  "I just don't see" where it comes from.  I didn't say all Lennys don't see where the optimism should come.    

 If you had said "I can see optimism for Lennys."  That's fine, cause you're speaking for yourself, about the optimism for Lennys.  You're not saying everyone has to be optimistic.  

[Swedish Chef]

Perhaps Lenny has written in the amazing RA how their Valentine's Day should be celebrated. 

[luminous]

11 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Like I said.  "I just don't see" where it comes from.  I didn't say all Lennys don't see where the optimism should come.    

 If you had said "I can see optimism for Lennys."  That's fine, cause you're speaking for yourself, about the optimism for Lennys.  You're not saying everyone has to be optimistic.  

Fine. I can see optimism for Lennys.

And just for clarification: Of course I'm not saying everyone has to be optimistic. And of course I always speak for myself.

I am optimistic, because that's simply my nature.

 

Edited January 17, 2017 by luminous

[Tensor]

 

2 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

She would not have enjoyed the day, even if it was any other day, simply because she was sick. That coincidentally happened on Valentine's Day, but that's no indicator that she doesn't enjoy Valentine's Day in general. She just didn't enjoy this one because she was sick. That doesn't make her say "I hate Valentine's Day".

Your comment was:  "especially since we've seen her enjoying it (Valentine's Day) quite a lot."

She was not enjoying taking care of Sheldon and being sick.  

 

2 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

It made Leonard happy, so what's the deal? I don't think he really cared all that much. He was fine with sex on Christmas eve and that's something they have more than just once a year.

Again, were talking about how much she enjoy Valentine's Day.   Not what happens on other holidays.  

And then we have this discussion in the vet's office:

Quote

 

Leonard: Well, to be fair, you ate a lot of it before you gave it to me. 

Penny: So the point is I may have saved her life.

Vet: I’m sorry, is this a joke to you?

Leonard: No. Maybe to her.

Vet: How big a box of chocolate was it?

Penny: Uh, something like this. I don’t know. It came free with a full tank of gas.

Leonard: Really? Do you know how much those Lakers tickets were?

Penny: Do you know how much gas is?

 

That doesn't indicate she put much thought into the present.  And Leonard doesn't appear all that happy if he's complaining about how much he paid for his present, compared to what she spent. 

2 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

I think there was lots of enjoyment.

What part of the restaurant did she enjoy?  What part of feeling old in the car, and trying to find something to do  did she enjoy?  I'll give you her eating the burger, but she didn't look like she was enjoying Leonard throwing french fries at her.  And she didn't look like she was enjoying cleaning up after dancing around in the costumes.  Since the majority of that episode was in the restaurant and in the car, the majority of the episode, she wasn't enjoying it.  

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Your comment was:  "especially since we've seen her enjoying it (Valentine's Day) quite a lot."

True, and that includes, in my opinion, the thought that she would've enjoyed VD with Leonard in Switzerland. Remember, the initial statement was "Penny hates VD" and I'm trying to point out she doesn't. Of course things didn't go as planned, but that doesn't really change anything.

16 minutes ago, Tensor said:

That doesn't indicate she put much thought into the present.  And Leonard doesn't appear all that happy if he's complaining about how much he paid for his present, compared to what she spent.

I just don't think it was that big of a deal because he was quickly over it. Also she didn't have all that much money back then.

16 minutes ago, Tensor said:

What part of the restaurant did she enjoy?  What part of feeling old in the car, and trying to find something to do  did she enjoy?  I'll give you her eating the burger, but she didn't look like she was enjoying Leonard throwing french fries at her.  And she didn't look like she was enjoying cleaning up after dancing around in the costumes.  Since the majority of that episode was in the restaurant and in the car, the majority of the episode, she wasn't enjoying it.  

I don't think anyone enjoys waiting an hour for a table you have a reservation for. Things didn't go as planned, again, but that still doesn't mean she hates VD. I thought their conversation in the car was actually really nice.

Edited January 17, 2017 by FileXxX

[Tensor]

5 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

True, and that includes, in my opinion, the thought that she would've enjoyed VD with Leonard in Switzerland. Remember, the initial statement was "Penny hates VD" and I'm trying to point out she doesn't. Of course things didn't go as planned, but that doesn't really change anything.

I agree with you that she doesn't hate it, but I also think she has not enjoyed the majority of the Valentine's Days they've shown.  

5 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

I just don't think it was that big of a deal because he was quickly over it. Also she didn't have all that much money back then.

I could agree with this if they had her say she was looking to get him chocolates and saw this, so she got gas, so she could get the chocolates, because of her limited funds.  But as it came out. it didn't appear, to me, that she was really thinking about what to get Leonard, prior to seeing free chocolates for a fill up.   

 

5 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

I don't think anyone enjoys waiting an hour for a table you have a reservation for. Things didn't go as planned, again, but that still doesn't mean she hates VD. I thought their conversation in the car was actually really nice.

I thought it was cute also.  But, they didn't really enjoy it.