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[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10


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1 minute ago, FileXxX said:

I know what it means and that's basically what I said in my post you quoted (Penny may want as much romance as Shamy have). I'm still gonna watch and decide for myself, it's really not that difficult either.

No, you wrote "jealous" - different word that doesn't mean the same thing. But it's besides the point anyway because Mayim described it as Penny being "envious" in this episode, it has been confirmed by people who saw it, and yet here you are arguing against the term itself for some reason. What exactly is it that you are undecided on?!?

I admire your positive attitude trying to be the ray of sunshine in this dark and gloomy Lenny storm. But this is simply about calling a spade a spade. Words have meanings and there's nothing inherently wrong with using the right ones.

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16 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Which is fine but I don't recall you saying that when the taping report seems positive for Lenny.

Because there's usually not such a huge controversy going on. But even if the report says it's a great Lenny episode, I prefer not to get too comfortable with that, since I've been disappointed about episodes before. The same thing applies to reports that didn't sound good at all, such as 7.09 or 9.21, and those were all surprisingly positive (to me).

 

11 minutes ago, April said:

What exactly is it that you are undecided on?!?

I dunno, I guess (rather hoping) I'll interpret the whole thing differently than others.

Edited by FileXxX
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2 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

I dunno, I guess (rather hoping) I'll interprete the whole thing differently than others.

Sure, but how? Like what do you think could play out differently here that the idea of "Penny is envious" is not applicable? Do you think that Penny secretly loves Leonard not wearing pants? That Penny is totally okay with Leonard not asking how her day was? That she doesn't want to be as happy with Leonard as Shamy currently are with each other? Because this is the only way you could get rid of the "envious" part here and I fear the way the episode plays out doesn't give you much wiggle room, buddy.

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17 minutes ago, April said:

Sure, but how? Like what do you think could play out differently here that the idea of "Penny is envious" is not applicable? Do you think that Penny secretly loves Leonard not wearing pants? That Penny is totally okay with Leonard not asking how her day was? That she doesn't want to be as happy with Leonard as Shamy currently are with each other? Because this is the only way you could get rid of the "envious" part here and I fear the way the episode plays out doesn't give you much wiggle room, buddy.

Hehe. I'm pretty sure she's envious of how fresh the spark between Sheldon and Amy is because she wants that back in her own relationship with Leonard, and there's no reason to deny that. But I still wouldn't say she's envious (or jealous) of their relationship in general and thinks their way of having a relationship is the ultimate goal of life, as others are trying to put it, merely based on the fact that they're signing their own relationship agreement. Also note that I wasn't the one who came up with the word "jealous".

Edited by FileXxX

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2 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

Hehe. I'm pretty sure she's envious of how fresh the spark between Sheldon and Amy is because she wants that back in her own relationship with Leonard, and there's no reason to deny that. But I still wouldn't say she's envious (or jealous) of their relationship in general and thinks their way of having a relationship is the ultimate goal of life, as others are trying to put it, merely based on the fact that they're signing their own relationship agreement. Also note that I wasn't the one who came up with the word "jealous".

Is anybody actually making that case? (I'm sorry, you Lennies have been fighting about that episode for weeks in three different threads so I might have missed that, whoops.)

I can only go with what the show is doing and the show is presenting it as "Penny is envious of Shamy" because their relationship right now has reached this adorable lovey-dovey phase. (Emphasis on the "right now" cause of course Penny wouldn't care for the 6 years of ridiculously slow courtship before that.) And the show illustrates her feeling of envy with stuff like "Sheldon wears pants at home as opposed to Leonard who doesn't". That is the baseline we are talking about here. Simple every day stuff - not the fundamentals of their relationship or whatever. And adjusting those little things can go a long way for a happy marriage.

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3 minutes ago, April said:

Is anybody actually making that case? (I'm sorry, you Lennies have been fighting about that episode for weeks in three different threads so I might have missed that, whoops.)

Well, that's the overall vibe I got. Some people even go as far as saying they're turning Lenny into Shamy 2.0. Of course it's okay to feel this way, but I simply don't agree.

5 minutes ago, April said:

And the show illustrates her feeling of envy with stuff like "Sheldon wears pants at home as opposed to Leonard who doesn't". That is the baseline we are talking about here. Simple every day stuff - not the fundamentals of their relationship or whatever. And adjusting those little things can go a long way for a happy marriage.

That's what they're trying to tackle with the relationship agreement, which is why it boggles my mind that people are blowing this out of proportion like that. We already have an idea of what's in their relationship agreement, some very basic stuff as it seems, so it's not like they're turning Lenny upside down.

I get that people think a relationship agreement doesn't make sense for Lenny because they never needed it and they might be right, but if they want to try something new to work on their marriage, I just don't see the issue. As long as they're happy... :icon_neutral:

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3 minutes ago, bbtfan07 said:

I wonder if Sheldon ever let Leonard run around sans pants.

I imagine there was probably something about that in the Roommate Agreement - his first idea after being sure Sheldon was all tucked in for his first night in 4B was to drop his pants so... I guess Leonard letting himself go might just as well be a sign of him enjoying his freedom - a bit too much for Penny's taste. lol

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4 minutes ago, FileXxX said:

Well, that's the overall vibe I got. Some people even go as far as saying they're turning Lenny into Shamy 2.0. Of course it's okay to feel this way, but I simply don't agree.

That's what they're trying to tackle with the relationship agreement, which is why it boggles my mind that people are blowing this out of proportion like that. We already have an idea of what's in their relationship agreement, some very basic stuff as it seems, so it's not like they're turning Lenny upside down.

I get that people think a relationship agreement doesn't make sense for Lenny because they never needed it and they might be right, but if they want to try something new to work on their marriage, I just don't see the issue. As long as they're happy... :icon_neutral:

I may regret this, but.....A relationship agreement could be great.  It could work out wonderfully for them.  However, the history of this couple is in solving their issues through talk and discussion.  This method has worked for them wonderfully in the past--as recently as episode 9.02.  That they are turning to something that is a staple of another couple, a couple so unlike them--a relationship so unlike theirs-- is (I think) what has many Leonard/Penny shippers/fans in a state of disbelief.  Even if it is a "new" way of working things out, it seems unnecessary, as they have perfectly worked things through in the past, arguably more successfully than the other couples (we have many examples of both Sheldon and Amy using their RA to manipulate each other).  Again, this particular RA may be just the thing to address things becoming stagnant (my word) for the Hofstadters.  It is just that it would have been preferable to see them sitting somewhere together by themselves as they have since as early as the David Underhill situation (maybe even earlier---not time to think right now) and talk the situation through.....just my thoughts....

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1 minute ago, veejay said:

Perhaps the producers found a new ad-sponsor for especially white and durable undies. :shy:

Their nefarious plans have finally been uncovered - it's been the tighty whitey mafia and their meddling all along!!

LMAO

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Hokie has it right. Even if they decided they needed a RA they could do it themselves. Are they just so stupid they need Sheldon to do it? My feeling is you will never hear about it again. It's just another way TBTB want to make Sheldon look superior and Lenny look like total fu_king morons

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Just now, Lagernisse said:

it looks to me that these next two episodes will be hilarious if you are a Lenny fan. 

If you watch TBBT in the future you can go from 10x12 to 10x14 and it won't seem so bad.

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1 hour ago, mirs1 said:

Really nice of you to share, but the first thing that comes to my mind after reading the TR is that Lenny will be written out from the show.

Now when Penny want's a house and babies, it is very easy for the writers to move them to house and we will never see them again.

Just some wild speculation from my side noting else. 

Edited by Lagernisse
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6 minutes ago, Lagernisse said:

Really nice of you to share, but the first thing that comes to my mind after reading the TR is that Lenny will be written out from the show.

Now when Penny want's a house and babies, it is very easy for the writers to move them to house and we will never see them again.

This is just a thought nothing else.  

I understand your sentiment but don't think do. I think the girl storyline was written in case there is no season 11. That why IMO Amy wanting to be engaged was mentioned.

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3 hours ago, CaffeineBuzz said:

Ok I'll weigh in but try not to shoot the messenger.  

The way Mayim and Co. are advertising this episode is not off the mark.  The episode does play off as Penny is envious of the Shamy relationship because they make a point of highlighting all episode (in front of Penny) how happy Shamy is, how many great things Sheldon does for Amy and vice versa.  Its very intentionally acted and very intentionally scripted.  This is EXACTLY the feel they were going for.  They contrast the dynamic of the two couples pretty much most of the episode, I'm guessing to make the Lenny drama part more plausible?  Cause I'm not gonna lie, even me as a Shamy shipper felt it was coming out of nowhere for Penny to be all mopey and complaining Leonard doesn't try enough but they hammer it home with examples all episode to support that yes, that's how she feels.  Penny does lament that she's unhappy that Leonard isn't trying enough, not like he used to meanwhile she's asking the girls and they both weigh in with examples.  Bernadette weighs in with examples of longer married stuff and that its ok Penny will get used to the shift and on the flip side you have Shamy who are in their lovey dovey phase which isn't helping Penny feel any better.

The orginal TR did reflect that but its not an exageration, that's how it plays.

That being said.... I still feel (and this is just my two cents) that this argument was out of the blue and not justified.  I have a real issue with the idea that Leonard suddenly doesn't try enough when all the guy has ever done is chase and woo this girl.  So to me, it bothers me and I feel for Leonard (despite all the set up they try to throw in there to make you feel Penny has a point).  And I'm super happy that at one point in their initial argument he does stand up for himself and refute her claim he isn't trying.

This will be a weird episode for you all, I'm not gonna lie.   It still feels to me that the fight isn't justified, and that's coming from a non Lenny, know what I mean?

Thank you so much for telling it like it is, CaffeineBuzz.

Reading this made me sick to the point where I don’t even wanna watch this episode. 

Where to start?

Penny. Based on everything I’ve read about this episode, she sounds like a spoiled little princess. Instead of whining and bitching to everyone who’ll listen about what a bad husband Leonard is, how about putting a little effort into your marriage yourself? Feel like your marriage is missing a little romance and spark? How about suggesting a romantic evening, a nice dinner or a movie instead of waiting around for your partner to initiate it? It’s not a fucking one-way-street. It’s especially rich coming from the woman who recently hid all her husband’s beloved collectables, things that according to the REAL (loving, kind) Penny, are what make Leonard who he is. I’ll never understand why they’ve turned Penny into Queen Bitch. Comparing her to S1 Penny… it’s like watching two completely different characters. S1 Penny was so unbelievably loving and kind. And not just to Leonard, but in general. Now she almost feels like the female version of Sheldon sometimes. No thanks.

Is Leonard the perfect partner? No. Not at all. He’s made plenty of mistakes throughout this relationship, but my lord, so has Penny. And I so desperately wish they’d stop crapping on Leonard every fucking chance they get while Penny’s flaws get overlooked by the other characters most of the time. Doesn't know her hubby’s birthday? NO BIGGIE! He’ll just laugh it off and look at her like she’s the most precious thing on earth cause he’s SUCH a bad husband.

And if Leonard being the bad guy yet again wasn’t enough, we’ve got another episode of “LOOK HOW MUCH BETTER SHELDON IS THAN LEONARD LOOK LOOK LOOK!” Oh goodie ! I haven’t heard that record before. 

And to top it all off Lenny suddenly need to write down how to have a proper relationship. And they’re too schtoopid to write it themselves so they need their relationship expert friend to do it for them.

What’s not to love about this?

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3 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

I understand your sentiment but don't think do. I think the girl storyline was written in case there is no season 11. That why IMO Amy wanting to be engaged was mentioned.

You are probably right, the moving out part of Lenny just fitted so well. 

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