[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[April]

43 minutes ago, Zhalen565 said:

And the Bessewisser scientist wasting that time getting it wrong. Scientifically and Botanically cucumber being a fruit not a vegetable. Develops from a flower and has seeds on the inside. 

In culinary context cucumbers are called a vegetable. It's not wrong cause words can have more than one meaning/definition. More importantly though I don't think anybody wants Sheldon go into a god damn lecture of "Fun fact, did you know that..." every time someone calls a vegetable a vegetable that is technically a fruit or something. Heck, I don't think anybody wants me to go into a lecture about that and I'm not in a position to steal anybody's precious screen time. But Sheldon would so count your blessings that he kept his mouth about that And for the record, yes, I also think they could have cut that scene but I guess the writers wanted to make a joke about cucumber water for some stupid reason.

Anyway:

31 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

The issue I have is when they give us shamy or howadette drama, they always show them talking and resolving it especially when it's Sheldon's issues. But when it comes to lenny we get the bitter but not the sweet part of lenny. It's so annoying seeing them all fine at the end of the episode, without even knowing how they came to that conclusion. Like I have said many times on here, when it comes to lenny, tptb can't wait to move to the next non- lenny scene and just rush the little crumbs that we get.

This is really the crux of the matter. I guess with the RA part we got at least some sort of tangible evidence that they talked about something. But seeing how this is now one of many little or big (YMMV) fights Lenny had in recent episodes and will have in upcoming ones that are not resolved on screen it's starting to get a bit... Idk... weird?? suspicious?? ... that there's never really a proper on screen solution to their problems and seeing that all of this is still ongoing one can only assume that this is by design cause if they actually get the opportunity to work things out properly on screen then all this drama should be over, right?

Idk where all of this is leading but the latest TR points to Penny feeling some general sense of aimlessness in life and frustration about that. They started something like that last year and it could be an interesting storyline for her if they finally let it play out and not get distracted by other shiny plot lines like last season. The downside of that is that it'll probably get worse before it gets better, but we'll see.

[Tensor]

11 minutes ago, April said:

In culinary context cucumbers are called a vegetable. It's not wrong cause words can have more than one meaning/definition. More importantly though I don't think anybody wants Sheldon go into a god damn lecture of "Fun fact, did you know that..." every time someone calls a vegetable a vegetable that is technically a fruit or something. Heck, I don't think anybody wants me to go into a lecture about that and I'm not in a position to steal anybody's precious screen time. But Sheldon would so count your blessings that he kept his mouth about that And for the record, yes, I also think they could have cut that scene but I guess the writers wanted to make a joke about cucumber water for some stupid reason.

Yeah, but Sheldon is hardly culinary, he's scientific.  Instead of a lecture, he just could have called it a fruit.  After all, he's the one with the eidetic memory, so you would think he would get it right.  Or, they just could have cut that whole scene, but then, there would have been less Sheldon and we know TPTB can't let that happen.  

[Tonstar17]

This is really the crux of the matter. I guess with the RA part we got at least some sort of tangible evidence that they talked about something. But seeing how this is now one of many little or big (YMMV) fights Lenny had in recent episodes and will have in upcoming ones that are not resolved on screen it's starting to get a bit... Idk... weird?? suspicious?? ... that there's never really a proper on screen solution to their problems and seeing that all of this is still ongoing one can only assume that this is by design cause if they actually get the opportunity to work things out properly on screen then all this drama should be over, right?
Idk where all of this is leading but the latest TR points to Penny feeling some general sense of aimlessness in life and frustration about that. They started something like that last year and it could be an interesting storyline for her if they finally let it play out and not get distracted by other shiny plot lines like last season. The downside of that is that it'll probably get worse before it gets better, but we'll see.

The last part of your post is what bothers me. I could see it getting a lot worst than better. I could see the writers creating more drama and putting the story on hold with no resolution whenever tptb want, to concentrate on other stories, leaving it opened until the next time they need it to created some bullshit lenny drama. I think the reason they will not resolve this latest drama is because as Malero said they love lenny drama and ending it or resolving it will give them nothing to write for lenny.

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[Stephen Hawking]

25 minutes ago, Zhalen565 said:

Yep! As far back as S1E04 we had Sheldon giving a factoid on why "Tomatoes are shelved with vegetables even though technically they are a fruit"

Yet, 7 years later, he didn't correct Howard, when he referred to tomatoes as vegetables.

[Zhalen565]

21 minutes ago, April said:

In culinary context cucumbers are called a vegetable. It's not wrong cause words can have more than one meaning

Culinarily they may be used as vegetables but they are still a fruit, cucumber is of the family cucumis sativus which is a subdivision of the genus cucumis (melon).  I don't want an exposition, I just want them to quote the science correctly.

[April]

4 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Yeah, but Sheldon is hardly culinary, he's scientific.  Instead of a lecture, he just could have called it a fruit.  After all, he's the one with the eidetic memory, so you would think he would get it right.  Or, they just could have cut that whole scene, but then, there would have been less Sheldon and we know TPTB can't let that happen.  

The cucumber was part of his drink. Consuming food = culinary context. He didn't explain a scientific drawing or anything. Nobody calls a cucumber a fruit when they talk about them in a culinary context. Unless you're a pedant and want to make a smartass comment like Sheldon would usually do with his "fun facts" but that would take us back to the initial complaint of that taking up too much screen time, now would it? So it's all a bit of a circular argument.

And I have literally said for all I care they could have cut that thing short cause the joke about the drink wasn't exactly fresh enough to justify its existence.

[Stephen Hawking]

30 minutes ago, April said:

More importantly though I don't think anybody wants Sheldon go into a god damn lecture of "Fun fact, did you know that..." every time someone calls a vegetable a vegetable that is technically a fruit or something.

I don't think it would matter what the rest of them wanted.

Sheldon has a pathological need to correct inaccuracies, as evidenced by his discomfort, when he was prevented from correcting Raj about Tapioca.

[Zhalen565]

12 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

Yet, 7 years later, he didn't correct Howard, when he referred to tomatoes as vegetables.

Looks like that eidetic memory is on the fritz.

[Swedish Chef]

4 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

The last part of your post is what bothers me. I could see it getting a lot worst than better. I could see the writers creating more drama and putting the story on hold with no resolution whenever tptb want, to concentrate on other stories, leaving it opened until the next time they need it to created some bullshit lenny drama. I think the reason they will not resolve this latest drama is because as Malero said they love lenny drama and ending it or resolving it will give them nothing to write for lenny.

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I think a lot of plots will slow down or left open if we get a renewal for two more seasons.

Perfect opportunity for the writers to save some Lenny drama/angst/fighting for the next seasons, because write some good happy Lenny stories seems almost impossible for the writers. 

There are so much that the writers could have done with Lenny but they have missed out completely.

What happen on the honeymoon ?

Why don't they go out on date nights ?

They could go and see their parents.

Penny used to be a sports fan, what about spending some time before the TV.

 

 

[April]

9 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

The last part of your post is what bothers me. I could see it getting a lot worst than better. I could see the writers creating more drama and putting the story on hold with no resolution whenever tptb want, to concentrate on other stories, leaving it opened until the next time they need it to created some bullshit lenny drama. I think the reason they will not resolve this latest drama is because as Malero said they love lenny drama and ending it or resolving it will give them nothing to write for lenny.

Yeah, I get that. This lose storyline (if I may generously call it that) has been a long time in the making and up to now there was never really any urgency to it so that the writers got distracted by other stuff. The only good thing about them hammering home that something is up with Lenny and then homing in on the more specific idea that something seems up with Penny is that it finally starts to look like they've started to take some interest in that story and are putting a bit more effort into it.

And yes, I also think that they really need to find an answer to the question of "what do we do with Lenny without drama?" The relationship always had a ton of little or big drama plots. If they aim to get rid of that by whatever means what is then left? What kinds of stories can they tell that don't involve Lenny being chained to the kitchen island (cause nobody wants that lbr)?? What kind of relationship dynamic can they have beyond the tired old "hurr hurr the nerd got the hot girl, isn't that a hoot!?" bullshit??

The writers never really went far beyond these superficialities and it's a pity because I do think Lenny have a lot of potential on that front. Instead of joking about how they have nothing to talk about and leave it at that why not show them what makes them work as a couple? Instead of having Leonard praise Penny's looks for the gazillionst time why not give us something about how he admires her for her other attributes?? Instead of Penny complaining about Leonard's hobbies why not let the two find something they both enjoy??? You know, stuff like that.

[legacy99]

If the show is extended will sheldons development slow down or go backwards

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[Kev0821]

I'll have to go back and re-read, but Penny and Leonard's RA isn't mentioned in "The Emotion Detection Automation," right? It seems to me that Leonard is upset that Penny doesn't discuss the possibility of Randall living with them, even for a short time. While one could argue that Penny is right, "family is family," we don't know any of the other specifications of the RA. The tag scene in "The Romance Recalibration" suggested that Leonard wanted Penny to be more vocal about her feelings, but does this extend to other matters, as well? I just find it odd that there isn't at least  a throw-away line referencing their agreement to show some continuity, i.e. Leonard saying something like, "I thought we both agreed to discuss topics like this, before making any hasty decisions." Regardless, I'm sure those who were annoyed by the RA are more than glad, if it's never mentioned again.

[john2p]

1 hour ago, No Regrets said:

Exactly. The worst thing about the latest episode was that we didn't get to see them talk and instead they went for Shamy talking about things that didn't matter. Yes, this is a comedy above all else but often I feel these writers flat out refuse to go for real serious talk because they can't make it funny. It doesn't have to be funny all the time. A married couple with serious problems just isn't funny but if you choose to go there, then at least commit to it and show me some real talk. Here's how it's done:

Some of the best acting I've ever seen on television and also one of the most heartbreaking scenes, too. That scene was earned and it was also necessary because of everything the characters had gone through before. I don't see the same commitment for Leonard and Penny. 

Coincidentally I have rewachted (and especially these scene) of Friends, and I have to totally agree with you. The writers of Friends did some tremendous job around Rachel and Ross . If I am honest, they managed to keep a amazingly high level in total of 10 seasons, with maybe some weak moments. About TBBT, it´s irritating the levels are so fluctuacting from beyond amazing tilll terrible, like last episode. I don´t know why they can´t be consistent. After 6 it is very instable to me. Still it got it´s glorious moments. But more honestly; I think it´s more due to the actors than to the writers atm. 

8 minutes ago, April said:

Yeah, I get that. This lose storyline (if I may generously call it that) has been a long time in the making and up to now there was never really any urgency to it so that the writers got distracted by other stuff. The only good thing about them hammering home that something is up with Lenny and then homing in on the more specific idea that something seems up with Penny is that it finally starts to look like they've started to take some interest in that story and are putting a bit more effort into it.

And yes, I also think that they really need to find an answer to the question of "what do we do with Lenny without drama?" The relationship always had a ton of little or big drama plots. If they aim to get rid of that by whatever means what is then left? What kinds of stories can they tell that don't involve Lenny being chained to the kitchen island (cause nobody wants that lbr)?? What kind of relationship dynamic can they have beyond the tired old "hurr hurr the nerd got the hot girl, isn't that a hoot!?" bullshit??

The writers never really went far beyond these superficialities and it's a pity because I do think Lenny have a lot of potential on that front. Instead of joking about how they have nothing to talk about and leave it at that why not show them what makes them work as a couple? Instead of having Leonard praise Penny's looks for the gazillionst time why not give us something about how he admires her for her other attributes?? Instead of Penny complaining about Leonard's hobbies why not let the two find something they both enjoy??? You know, stuff like that.

Some has referred to the why... It´s Molaro, he doesn´t think it´s funny what you suggest...... Poor creativity-poor writing.......and in the end poor Lenny, throwing them for the bus. 

Edited January 22, 2017 by john2p

[Tensor]

22 minutes ago, April said:

Unless you're a pedant and want to make a smartass comment like Sheldon would usually do with his "fun facts" but that would take us back to the initial complaint of that taking up too much screen time, now would it? So it's all a bit of a circular argument.

As is trying to say it's a choice between either saying it's a vegetable or he gives a lecture.   If he's corrected others with things that are scientific, in a non-scientific context, why not just say it's a fruit?   I really don't see the difference in his giving a fun fact, or complaining about a cucumber in water.  Either way, it's Sheldon on screen, without having Lenny working through their own problems.  Although, I guess now that Sheldon has a solution for all their relationship problems, who knows.    

[Tonstar17]

Yeah, I get that. This lose storyline (if I may generously call it that) has been a long time in the making and up to now there was never really any urgency to it so that the writers got distracted by other stuff. The only good thing about them hammering home that something is up with Lenny and then homing in on the more specific idea that something seems up with Penny is that it finally starts to look like they've started to take some interest in that story and are putting a bit more effort into it.
And yes, I also think that they really need to find an answer to the question of "what do we do with Lenny without drama?" The relationship always had a ton of little or big drama plots. If they aim to get rid of that by whatever means what is then left? What kinds of stories can they tell that don't involve Lenny being chained to the kitchen island (cause nobody wants that lbr)?? What kind of relationship dynamic can they have beyond the tired old "hurr hurr the nerd got the hot girl, isn't that a hoot!?" bullshit??
The writers never really went far beyond these superficialities and it's a pity because I do think Lenny have a lot of potential on that front. Instead of joking about how they have nothing to talk about and leave it at that why not show them what makes them work as a couple? Instead of having Leonard praise Penny's looks for the gazillionst time why not give us something about how he admires her for her other attributes?? Instead of Penny complaining about Leonard's hobbies why not let the two find something they both enjoy??? You know, stuff like that.

All couple fight so they can never really get rid of that drama completely, but when everytime lenny have a plot and they fight or are snarky to each other it becomes a problem and could be seen as lazy writing because like you and others have said they are so much potentials for Lenny without them constantly at each other's throats. You know, I hated lenny hanging out at the kitchen island and voiced it here on many occasions, but I'm now coming round to the island as it's the only time lenny are at peace and not fighting. Lol.

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[April]

1 hour ago, Tensor said:

As is trying to say it's a choice between either saying it's a vegetable or he gives a lecture.   If he's corrected others with things that are scientific, in a non-scientific context, why not just say it's a fruit?

I literally just said it: Nobody calls a cucumber a fruit when they talk about them in a culinary context. Unless you're a pedant and want to make a smartass comment like Sheldon would... etc etc.

See circular argument.

In the end none of that matters because you'll still be unhappy and nobody wants any of that cucumber talk anyway.

1 hour ago, Tonstar17 said:

All couple fight so they can never really get rid of that drama completely, but when everytime lenny have a plot and they fight or are snarky to each other it becomes a problem and could be seen as lazy writing because like you and others have said they are so much potentials for Lenny without them constantly at each other's throats.

Yeah, it really tells me that the writers still don't know what to do with Lenny now so fighting and snark is a bit of a crutch to get at least some material for them.

A whole lot of their story was (rightfully or not) billed as "look at how this nerd gets his dream girl!" which is cute enough but now that he got his dream girl it feels like everyone's looking around the writers' room like "now what?" because they never really imagined getting this far and now having to write them as a married couple. So now what, writers?!? There are interesting things the writers could do but if they will is anyone's guess.

I really hope they will find a solution though cause they have shown with Shamy and Howardette that they can write some really great happy couple stories that feel organic to the characters and give them development as individuals and together. If they finally figure out what to do with Lenny it could be equally beautiful and fun.

Quote

You know, I hated lenny hanging out at the kitchen island and voiced it here on many occasions, but I'm now coming round to the island as it's the only time lenny are at peace and not fighting. Lol.

LMAO Right? Be careful what you wish for!

Edited January 22, 2017 by April

[Tensor]

 

21 minutes ago, April said:

I literally just said it: Nobody calls a cucumber a fruit when they talk about them in a culinary context.

Are you saying Sheldon has never corrected someone with science, in a non-science context?

21 minutes ago, April said:

 Unless you're a pedant and want to make a smartass comment... etc etc.

But Sheldon doesn't make smartass comments, he just doesn't know any better, right?

21 minutes ago, April said:

See circular argument.

It still looks to me as if you are saying the only choices were a lecture or saying it's a vegetable.  I simply maintain he would, as he had in the past, use the actual science, no matter the context. 

21 minutes ago, April said:

In the end none of that matters because you'll still be unhappy and nobody wants any of that cucumber talk anyway.

So?  I am unhappy, and not just because of that.  There is a lot for me to be unhappy about, in relation to this show. 

[April]

Just now, Tensor said:

Are you saying Sheldon has never corrected someone with science, in a non-science context?

But Sheldon doesn't make smartass comments, he just doesn't know any better, right?

It still looks to me as if you are saying the only choices were a lecture or saying it's a vegetable.  I simply maintain he would, as he had in the past, use the actual science, no matter the context. 

So?  I am unhappy, and not just because of that.  There is a lot for me to be unhappy about, in relation to this show. 

Rick, you know better than trying to have this conversation with me.

[Tensor]

No, I don't.  But, to not clog up the thread, we can take it to PM.  

[3ku11]

4 hours ago, Tonstar17 said:

The last part of your post is what bothers me. I could see it getting a lot worst than better. I could see the writers creating more drama and putting the story on hold with no resolution whenever tptb want, to concentrate on other stories, leaving it opened until the next time they need it to created some bullshit lenny drama. I think the reason they will not resolve this latest drama is because as Malero said they love lenny drama and ending it or resolving it will give them nothing to write for lenny.

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I think this is just speculation. Moloro was referring to Platonic Permeutation. From what I recall. They weren't angry or fighting. But their banter was great. I loved Lenny last episode. While as a shipper it's hard to see them argue. I just think it's an arch. And it well lead to a new career change for Penny. And more balance. I don't think Moloro ever said they can't write more then that anyway. I just don't see any issue with how theywriting Lenny right now. Yeah yeah I'm not married. But from what I've read from some posters here. Their issues do occur in marriages. I don't have a problem with the issues they are going through persay. Maybe the tangent is an issue.

They shouldent be dealing with this stuff so early in their marrage. I mean since Season 6. We've seen Penny dealing with reality since then. Her acting career going no where. Not knowing what she wants in her life. Being aimless. Lacking direction. But I'm dissapointed in how they have deconstructed her character. Penny was sexy, fun, carefree, messy. We should be seeing such fun plots with them being married. Instead they skipped all of that. And we get Burping Leonard. An Underappreciated wife trope. Don't get me started on Teenage, sensual Shamy just for the sake of Stale Contrast. Writing is the issue. 

Edited January 22, 2017 by 3ku11

[Tonstar17]

I think this is just speculation. Moloro was referring to Platonic Permeutation. From what I recall. They weren't angry or fighting. But their banter was great. I loved Lenny last episode. While as a shipper it's hard to see them argue. I just think it's an arch. And it well lead to a new career change for Penny. And more balance. I don't think Moloro ever said they can't write more then that anyway. I just don't see any issue with how theywriting Lenny right now. Yeah yeah I'm not married. But from what I've read from some posters here. Their issues do occur in marriages. I don't have a problem with the issues they are going through persay. Maybe the tangent is an issue.
They shouldent be dealing with this stuff so early in their marrage. I mean since Season 6. We've seen Penny dealing with reality since then. Her acting career going no where. Not knowing what she wants in her life. Being aimless. Lacking direction. But I'm dissapointed in how they have deconstructed her character. Penny was sexy, fun, carefree, messy. We should be seeing such fun plots with them being married. Instead they skipped all of that. And we get Burping Leonard. An Underappreciated wife trope. Don't get me started on Teenage, sensual Shamy just for the sake of Stale Contrast. Writing is the issue. 

have no problem with lenny fighting, it's happens in real life relationships, married or not. But when every time they have an arc it's about them arguing about something trivial, then it's an issue for me. Malero wasn't just talking about that said episode. His words were he loves lenny angst because he thinks it funny. Isn't it up to the audience to decide what's  funny. I guess because the majority do not complain about it, then it's okay. Tptb have not cared about lenny since like S7, why should the casuals. Also Lenny fans are not vocal enough since the majority are men and rather complain on a football forum and comment on social media about sci fi, action movies than a sitcom, it's a loss cause as far as I'm concerned. The majority alway wins the vote and lenny fans are just too small and not vocal enough to make a difference.

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[Itwasdestined]

Also Lenny fans are not vocal enough since the majority are men and rather complain on a football forum and comment on social media about sci fi, action movies than a sitcom, it's a loss cause as far as I'm concerned. The majority alway wins the vote and lenny fans are just too small and not vocal enough to make a difference.

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That's one funny description of what men do on the internet, Tonstar🤣ROTFLMAO!

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[Tonstar17]

That's one funny description of what men do on the internet, Tonstar🤣ROTFLMAO!
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Hey, it's just some of the things we men do. I wasn't going to mention the extreme dark side of the internet that some visit. Like the very educational erotic sites.

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[Itwasdestined]

Yeah, but if Leonard was back to "Googling how to do that", Penny wouldn't be complaining about being taken for granted! There are positives!


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[joyceraye]

5 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

I don't think it would matter what the rest of them wanted.

Sheldon has a pathological need to correct inaccuracies, as evidenced by his discomfort, when he was prevented from correcting Raj about Tapioca.

It's another example of Sheldon trying to be appropriate to the situation. In the past he would have assumed everybody in the bar would want to know the botanic credentials of the cucumber. The science advisors to the writers would have picked it up were it a mistake and it would have been changed to 'salad ingredient' or 'sandwich filling'. I still don't know whether he liked it or not because I didn't understand the noise he made.