[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[2L344]

Stepping away from my own TR, here are my thoughts on last night's episode:

 

I didnt quite understand why Howard throughout the episode found Raj's dilemma not only funny but worthy of poking fun of--yeah he DOES offer his garage (though when he initially heard Leonards offer he wanted Raj to take that instead) but still, Howards reactions to his BF Raj were in stark contrast to that of Leonard's caring friend compassion. Despite this I was still laughing hard at Howard, Simon is too damned funny not to.

Penny and Leonard for the most part were a united front, with Penny being dismissive of Beverly's comments as shared by Sheldon. It only turned when Leonard was struggling with the Randall comment that Bev made in Skype. Leonard later DOES reverse himself when talking to Penny the next morning, blaming then drama on Beverly aka Satan. Lenny come out fine in the end, but what bothers me (I do like Lenny) is that Leonard is still triggered by these thoughts that have him dwelling on his relationship. Hes getting better but theres still work to be done.

Sheldon obviously continues to stumble along and it seems he still does his one step forward two steps back routine, as someone else said. He starts out fine by recognizing his outrage at Raj and deciding to get him a housewarming gift and wishing Raj good things in his new arrangement. But then he embarrasses Raj (and Amy too) and then goes off when Raj calls him a jerk. He also starts the drama with Lenny by filling them in on Beverlys assessment and continuing the drama by referring to Raj as the buffer (clearly believing everything Bev said).

Amy was a voice of reason and was able to put things in perspective for Sheldon. Good for her for reigning it in, especially after initially reacting to Beverly in the Skype session. And after putting her foot down on not attending Comic Con Im glad to see that she caved (I assumed) with the Batman statue and balance was restored in 4B lol.

Surprisingly for me, I really enjoyed the Raj/ Stuart scenes. I am hoping the money situation is a catalyst for much needed change in Raj. He appeared very reflective in this episode and appeared to have done some soul searching regarding his life and his reliance on his dad and friends.

When he and Stuart were making up the couch he said "Look at us, did you ever think you would be in this situation?" Stuart replies " No-- I sleep in a bed and youre on the couch, I never thought Id be better off than you". Funny, but Raj clearly is at a low point. He repeatedly questions Stuart about how he feels mooching off of Howard and having to be reliant on him. I hope the LA with Lenny is short lived, but I see it as a way of expanding his role and getting him out of Howards house--one babysitting moocher is enough.

Which brings me to Stuart. I know a lot of people chalk him up to being a needy creeper these days (I do get it) but I continue to feel sorry for him. His monologue with Raj showed a guy who has accepted that his efforts and dreams in his youth of being an artist resulted in nothing but despair for him and the best he can do now is to be the Wolowitz man servant. He isnt comforting at all to Raj and in fact suggests that Raj is following down the same path as him. Ots sobering for Raj and sad for Stuart.

Im a sucker for a sad sack story, and Stuart is the poster child for one in this episode.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by 2L344

[hokie3457]

5 minutes ago, 2L344 said:

Stepping away from my own TR, here are my thoughts on last night's episode:

 

I didnt quite understand why Howard throughout the episode found Raj's dilemma not only funny but worthy of poking fun of--yeah he DOES offer his garage (though when he initially heard Leonards offer he wanted Raj to take that instead) but still, Howards reactions to his BF Raj were in stark contrast to that of Leonard's caring friend compassion. Despite this I was still laughing hard at Howard, Simon is too damned funny not to.

Penny and Leonard for the most part were a united front, with Penny being dismissive of Beverly's comments as shared by Sheldon. It only turned when Leonard was struggling with the Randall comment that Bev made in Skype. Leonard later DOES reverse himself when talking to Penny the next morning, blaming then drama on Beverly aka Satan. Lenny come out fine in the end, but what bothers me (I do like Lenny) is that Leonard is still triggered by these thoughts that have him dwelling on his relationship. Hes getting better but theres still work to be done.

Sheldon obviously continues to stumble along and it seems he still does his one step forward two steps back routine, as someone else said. He starts out fine by recognizing his outrage at Raj and deciding to get him a housewarming gift and wishing Raj good things in his new arrangement. But then he embarrasses Raj (and Amy too) and then goes off when Raj calls him a jerk. He also starts the drama with Lenny by filling them in on Beverlys assessment and continuing the drama by referring to Raj as the buffer (clearly believing everything Bev said).

Amy was a voice of reason and was able to put things in perspective for Sheldon. Good for her for reigning it in, especially after initially reacting to Beverly in the Skype session. And after putting her foot down on not attending Comic Con Im glad to see that she caved (I assumed) with the Batman statue and balance was restored in 4B lol.

Surprisingly for me, I really enjoyed the Raj/ Stuart scenes. I am hoping the money situation is a catalyst for much needed change in Raj. He appeared very reflective in this episode and appeared to have done some soul searching regarding his life and his reliance on his dad and friends.

When he and Stuart were making up the couch he said "Look at us, did you ever think you would be in this situation?" Stuart replies " No-- I sleep in a bed and youre on the couch, I never thought Id be better off than you". Funny, but Raj clearly is at a low point. He repeatedly questions Stuart about how he feels mooching off of Howard and having to be reliant on him. I hope the LA with Lenny is short lived, but I see it as a way of expanding his role and getting him out of Howards house--one babysitting moocher is enough.

Which brings me to Stuart. I know a lot of people chalk him up to beeing a needy creeper these days (I do get it) but I continue to feel sorry for him. His monologue with Raj showed a guy who has accepted that his efforts and dreams in his youth of being an artist resulted in nothing but despair for him and the best he can do now is to be the Wolowitz man servant. He isnt comforting at all to Raj and in fact suggests that Raj is following down the same path as him. Ots sobering for Raj and sad for Stuart.

Im a sucker for a sad sack story, and Stuart is the poster child for one in this episode.

 

 

Thank you for your insights here. Your contributions all day long have been very valuable. Thank again you so much!

[luminous]

 

[Tonstar17]

Thank you for your insights here. Your contributions all day long have been very valuable. Thank again you so much!

I second that.

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[Chrismo]

19 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

Thank you for your insights here. Your contributions all day long have been very valuable. Thank again you so much!

I actually think the insights and tonight's episode put Lenny in a better light.

[Sah]

1 hour ago, Tonstar17 said:

Maybe i chose the wrong wording, but when has sheldon done all those things by himself, instead of protocols or scared of been dumped. Romance leads to sex.


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Amy's birthday?

[serenaded214]

I cannot stand what they've done to Sheldon's character. I know most Sheldon fans say that it's just character development, but it's really not. I feel like they've actually gone backwards with him. He started out the series being so brilliant, proud, and dignified. Obnoxious, yes, but still dignified. He had a few childlike quirks, but still acted like a man for the most part.

One of main things that attracted me to the show was Sheldon's character. His arrogance was hot as fuck, and the manner in which he carried himself was such a turn on (I'm into that, as you can tell). Nowadays, the writers have turned him into a child. Pretty much every episode has him doing some childish thing and getting scolded for his behavior. I'm over it. He is nothing like he used to be.

And because I know people will defend him, I have no problem with him learning proper manners and empathy. My issue is with the way he acts now. There's nothing dignified about him anymore. He's just one huge manchild, its such a turn off. I can't believe Amy still wants to do him.

I say this as a Shamy shipper, please give Sheldon his spark back!!!!!

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[joyceraye]

4 hours ago, vonmar said:

Romance...to woo, to court, to bestow attention and/or gifts in order to win you true loves heart.

Sexual innuendo is a completely different thing...there is only one goal.

Sexual innuendo is a friendly, cheeky style of humour. At least it is on this side of the pond.  The other person is not necessarily one's partner, in fact often isn't. The goal is only to make the other person laugh, to respond with mock horror, or to keep a straight face like Amy did.

[joyceraye]

3 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

Thank you for your insights here. Your contributions all day long have been very valuable. Thank again you so much!

HEAR HEAR !

[Carlos]

5 hours ago, vonmar said:

Romance...to woo, to court, to bestow attention and/or gifts in order to win you true loves heart.

Sexual innuendo is a completely different thing...there is only one goal.

I can't see Sheldon as the romantic lead going by your definition of romance because regardless of Sheldon's sex drive he is not romantic at all. In tonight's episode he was proud about being 100 % honest with Amy, even if it was hurtful and insensitive.

[vonmar]

24 minutes ago, Carlos said:

I can't see Sheldon as the romantic lead going by your definition of romance because regardless of Sheldon's sex drive he is not romantic at all. In tonight's episode he was proud about being 100 % honest with Amy, even if it was hurtful and insensitive.

Never said that I thought that Sheldon was the romantic lead.  I was having a conversation about romance versus sexuality.

I think Sheldon is romantic in his own way.  As is Leonard and as is Howard.  Romance takes many forms. Just because you don't like how Sheldon expresses his romantic feeling for Amy, doesn't make it wrong.

[3ku11]

2 hours ago, serenaded214 said:

I cannot stand what they've done to Sheldon's character. I know most Sheldon fans say that it's just character development, but it's really not. I feel like they've actually gone backwards with him. He started out the series being so brilliant, proud, and dignified. Obnoxious, yes, but still dignified. He had a few childlike quirks, but still acted like a man for the most part.

One of main things that attracted me to the show was Sheldon's character. His arrogance was hot as fuck, and the manner in which he carried himself was such a turn on (I'm into that, as you can tell). Nowadays, the writers have turned him into a child. Pretty much every episode has him doing some childish thing and getting scolded for his behavior. I'm over it. He is nothing like he used to be.

And because I know people will defend him, I have no problem with him learning proper manners and empathy. My issue is with the way he acts now. There's nothing dignified about him anymore. He's just one huge manchild, its such a turn off. I can't believe Amy still wants to do him.

I say this as a Shamy shipper, please give Sheldon his spark back!!!!!

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1 hour ago, vonmar said:

Never said that I thought that Sheldon was the romantic lead.  I was having a conversation about romance versus sexuality.

I think Sheldon is romantic in his own way.  As is Leonard and as is Howard.  Romance takes many forms. Just because you don't like how Sheldon expresses his romantic feeling for Amy, doesn't make it wrong.

Point is Sheldons form and version of romance is not typical. Some may understand it. But imo Shamy shouldent be the romantic hero and heroine. They were kinda the alternative couple. I don't like how they have shifted things. But that's jmo.

[john2p]

14 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

Thank you for your insights here. Your contributions all day long have been very valuable. Thank again you so much!

 

14 hours ago, 2L344 said:

Stepping away from my own TR, here are my thoughts on last night's episode:

 

 

Penny and Leonard for the most part were a united front, with Penny being dismissive of Beverly's comments as shared by Sheldon. It only turned when Leonard was struggling with the Randall comment that Bev made in Skype. Leonard later DOES reverse himself when talking to Penny the next morning, blaming then drama on Beverly aka Satan. Lenny come out fine in the end, but what bothers me (I do like Lenny) is that Leonard is still triggered by these thoughts that have him dwelling on his relationship. Hes getting better but theres still work to be done.

I think Beverly is really the satan's voice in his mind. As pictured in many child comics. Leonard is and I think will be for ever insecure about himself and about his relationship with Penny. Though his condifidence is growing, the one who can trigger his insecurities the most, is the one who has caused it the most. And that will be Beverly. It is known, that adults who has been mobbed in their childhood still feel the effect in their current life. Especially when they hear/meet the one who  mobbed them or someone who is doing like that person. So it's pretty consistent (as some of the consistencies) in TBBT that Leonard will always act insecure with Beverly. And I think he always will be. From the serious side note; the "mobbing" his mother did was one of the worst someone can ever imagine.

Quote

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by john2p

[April]

1 hour ago, vonmar said:

Never said that I thought that Sheldon was the romantic lead.  I was having a conversation about romance versus sexuality.

I think Sheldon is romantic in his own way.  As is Leonard and as is Howard.  Romance takes many forms. Just because you don't like how Sheldon expresses his romantic feeling for Amy, doesn't make it wrong.

I know this wasn't your argument but let me just use your post to clear something up:

A "romantic lead" is simply a main character in a romantic story (film, play, whatever). There are no qualifications about how "romantic" the character in question has to be, nor how straight the "romance" is played in the story. A staple of many romantic comedies is exactly that one or sometimes even both of the romantic leads aren't exactly romantic, or they are in a situation that isn't romantic - and that's usually where the comedy comes from. Characters find themselves in some situation and fall in love and pursue a relationship is pretty much all it takes for a "romantic story".

So if one wants to categorise Sheldon or Leonard or Penny as a romantic lead then they all match those criteria.

[Jonny]

4 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Sexual innuendo is a friendly, cheeky style of humour. At least it is on this side of the pond.  The other person is not necessarily one's partner, in fact often isn't. The goal is only to make the other person laugh, to respond with mock horror, or to keep a straight face like Amy did.

True, it's a staple of British Comedy for sure. Innuendo with a partner of course is different with someone else like you stated.

But I don't know if it's kind of getting stale in this example because you know it doesn't go anywhere or lead to anything if that makes sense?

Edited February 24, 2017 by Jonny

[joyceraye]

2 hours ago, Jonny said:

True, it's a staple of British Comedy for sure. Innuendo with a partner of course is different with someone else like you stated.

But I don't know if it's kind of getting stale in this example because you know it doesn't go anywhere or lead to anything if that makes sense?

Certainly the innuendo is supposed to lead somewhere, such as in this instance Amy's reading the list and deciding there's somebody/nobody she wants to hear. Otherwise I can't see the point of the exchange at all. Unless we find out later what the result of the conversation was, double entendres notwithstanding, it's a waste of lines.

[djsurrey]

16 hours ago, Lagernisse said:

I do wonder sometime with the way the show has been written lately, if the writers is going for Shenny, and if that happen I will not watch anymore. 

I was not going to mention that first.

That would violate the rule that you can never get to Narnia the same way twice!

Does not mean that Leonard won't get worried or imagine something or have bad dreams about it. Perhaps we will see Leonard in Dr. Gallo's office again. Leonard is over due for a story.

[JohnPhD]

On 22/02/2017 at 6:36 PM, Kathy2611 said:

Can you please be more specific as to exactly what it is she did to make her "repulsively needy and a slave to her hormones."

Amy became needy when she developed a crush on Penny and insisted they were "best friends" etc. See many scenes where Amy is gushing on Penny who clearly doesn't like it. The dialogue made it clear with the joke when Amy described Bernadette as "So needy".  Repulsive is JMO.

I said "Slave to her hormones" because Sheldon says that all women are slaves to their hormones. When S says it that's not the show being sexist because we know S is wrong about almost everything that isn't physics. When Amy becomes an S to her H that's the show saying it. This begins in The Alien Parasite Hypothesis when Amy can't stop saying "hoo" when she sees Zack. Subsequently she transfers her attentions to Sheldon and behaves very inappropriately in her desperate attempts to get physical - eg the bogus flu episode and the end of 721.

 

[Carlos]

8 hours ago, vonmar said:

Never said that I thought that Sheldon was the romantic lead.  I was having a conversation about romance versus sexuality.

I think Sheldon is romantic in his own way.  As is Leonard and as is Howard.  Romance takes many forms. Just because you don't like how Sheldon expresses his romantic feeling for Amy, doesn't make it wrong.

No, it's not that I dislike the way in which Sheldon is romantic, it's just that I don't consider him to be a romantic person. Yes, there have been some instances, but a lot of the times, he's just mean to Amy.

[JohnPhD]

19 hours ago, legacy99 said:

I'm at the point where i dont believe there will be a happy ending for lenny. Maybe in the series finale we'll see Leonard at the door watching penny pack up to move out

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Just reading that is really sad. And imagine how beautifully KC would act it, Penny heartbroken but self-controlled, maybe tears in her eyes but not falling. At least it would give the series a sort of bleak symmetry, since Penny arrived in the building in 101. And if it were the last scene it would at least acknowledge that TBBT has been Penny's story. But probably the writers wouldn't even give us that, but end the ep with some Shamy crap.

[Die Zimtzicke]

On 2/21/2017 at 4:06 PM, BigBang15 said:

I don't think it's implied or stated that Leonard's dad was an habitual cheater. Just the one time with the waitress. And not for nothing, if I was married to that refrigerator that Leonard calls Mom, I'd consider it too.

And Leonard didn't cheat. One kiss, while drunk, while on the ocean away from home for a few months. A lot worse could have happened. It was just a kiss.

I never thought a drunken kiss on the ocean was cheating. But I was surprised, since Penny did, and they fought about it all the way to Vegas, that they still went through with the wedding. If I were on my way to a quickie wedding and got that upset, I would put the brakes on the wedding. Working through it could have been interesting, and they could have had a real wedding later, instead of having to repeat the quickie wedding just so their families could see it. It might have made the family wedding more interesting. I really did not like that ep although I know lots of people did.

[wowbagger]

About a Lenny divorce: Hmmm. On the one hand, it would be genuinely rather brave of the show to dismantle the couple that drove so many of the show's long running plots for so long - from the pilot, even. And also to shrug and say 'hey, look, sometimes even people with sexual chemistry who love each other are better as friends.' And I confess I love Lenny when they are snarking and bantering and I could see that translate to friendship.

on the other: Well, obviously it's awful for shippers of the two. And while i am not one, i can enjoy the pair. But if the show were to really make a case for Leonard and penny to be happier apart (but still friends), then I would go along with it. My problem is: I really do not trust the show to handle anything so delicate remotely well. Look at the reveal of that sodding Boat Kiss. Look at its aftermath. Ye Gods, no. No, I do not trust the show to show me Lenny's transition from married couple to friendly exes with anything like the grace or sensitivity you'd need.

[legacy99]

I never said i want them to divorce but i wouldn't put it pass tptb do it just so shamy and particularly sheldon could joke about how good shamy is as a couple

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[Jonny]

33 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

About a Lenny divorce: Hmmm. On the one hand, it would be genuinely rather brave of the show to dismantle the couple that drove so many of the show's long running plots for so long - from the pilot, even. And also to shrug and say 'hey, look, sometimes even people with sexual chemistry who love each other are better as friends.' And I confess I love Lenny when they are snarking and bantering and I could see that translate to friendship.

on the other: Well, obviously it's awful for shippers of the two. And while i am not one, i can enjoy the pair. But if the show were to really make a case for Leonard and penny to be happier apart (but still friends), then I would go along with it. My problem is: I really do not trust the show to handle anything so delicate remotely well. Look at the reveal of that sodding Boat Kiss. Look at its aftermath. Ye Gods, no. No, I do not trust the show to show me Lenny's transition from married couple to friendly exes with anything like the grace or sensitivity you'd need.

It's an interesting discussion, I don't think a) they would seriously consider doing it and b- like you intimated if it was to happen it would have to be pulled off so expertly or delicately. I guess it would be addressing a real life issue, this is a show that does address some real life topics but perhaps that would be way too heavy for a show like this.

No I think they will be fine, just need Penny to have some of epiphany moment when she figures out what the issue is then they should get it sorted. Because the viewers still haven't got a fucking clue.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Jonny

[April]

7 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

I never said i want them to divorce but i wouldn't put it pass tptb do it just so shamy and particularly sheldon could joke about how good shamy is as a couple
 

He doesn't need Lenny to divorce for that. lol

30 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

About a Lenny divorce: Hmmm. On the one hand, it would be genuinely rather brave of the show to dismantle the couple that drove so many of the show's long running plots for so long - from the pilot, even. And also to shrug and say 'hey, look, sometimes even people with sexual chemistry who love each other are better as friends.' And I confess I love Lenny when they are snarking and bantering and I could see that translate to friendship.

on the other: Well, obviously it's awful for shippers of the two. And while i am not one, i can enjoy the pair. But if the show were to really make a case for Leonard and penny to be happier apart (but still friends), then I would go along with it. My problem is: I really do not trust the show to handle anything so delicate remotely well. Look at the reveal of that sodding Boat Kiss. Look at its aftermath. Ye Gods, no. No, I do not trust the show to show me Lenny's transition from married couple to friendly exes with anything like the grace or sensitivity you'd need.

Idk... This would feel too much like what HIMYM did with Robin/Barney and... ugh... thanks but no thanks.