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[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10


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I think it was reflected mostly two episodes back. Penny had to compromise and sacrifice a lot. ^ Right we don't know Penny's interests. As the show does not shed a light on them. The early days Penny. Who was messy, fun, and free spirited. Has been replaced by tbh. This worn down, bored house wife. We don't see her go out anymore. We don't see any of her Friends. Be nice to see that side of her again. So I agree if Penny wants to do girly things. Even with Raj. Then be it. Despite understanding how most Lenny fans may feel about it. Because of whom. Leonard may have that point of view now. Well their talk be productive? Who knows have to wait and see.

Edited by 3ku11

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Shammy is the same thing in a new package every week. As far as story wise, they had 8 years to get Lenny into their position (married/living together). Now they have to do that with Shammy.

As far Raj living with Lenny, it's a sitcom. Having stories based just on Leonard and Penny would be boring. Most married couples' lives are boring.  While Shammy is getting sorted out, Lenny needs an antagonist (that they lost when Sheldon still lived there). It was either Raj or Stuart. I'd rather have Raj.

Why no dinner parties? Because it seems their only friends are Sheldon, Raj, Howard, Bernadette and Amy. Maybe Stuart. That's not a dinner party for them, that's every (other) day.

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I wouldn't mind Penny having fun with a friend, even Raj, and I would even be OK with Leonard feeling left out for a little, IF it was for one episode within several genetally good Lenny episodes, or at least not bad Lenny episodes. My problem is the context. It seems to be another way to show that Lenny are a bad couple, at least in a bad place. Episode after episode it's fighting, not communicating and barely any positive moments (they used to have sweet talks between them, when is the last time we have seen that happen? Last season?). Sometimes they are good and enjoy each other but generally it seems like the writers are trying to convey that they are having a lot of trouble being with each other. That's really sad.

Edited by bfm
typo

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19 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

Here's the thing though: who stopped her from keeping in contact with her old friends? I've known most of my friends for 20+ years. If someone's important enough to you it's possible to stay in touch. If you say the writers have neglected Penny and her other friendships then I absolutely agree with you. They've neglected plenty of things over the years. But Penny as a character could have picked up the phone and contacted her old friends. It's not Leonard's fault that she chose not to do so. Is it Penny's fault that Leonard feels left out? Absolutely not. She can't change the fact that he's not into girly stuff and nor should she. But Leonard can also feel left out without begrudging her of having fun with Raj. You can feel something without meaning to blame someone for it. For example: my best friend was jealous because I was spending more time with another friend lately. That didn't mean she didn't want me to have other friends, she was just scared of playing second fiddle because she always had to play second fiddle as a kid. There's no one to blame here, neither Raj, Leonard or Penny. 

The bold is pretty much my point. Penny as a character can't do anything on her own - she is stuck with what the writers are giving her which is a bunch of people, lovely as they may be, that she has a hard time relating to because they're all so much smarter than her and have special interests that she can't get into even after she tried.

I'm not blaming any character for anything so I'm not sure why that ends up being part of your argument. I just think it's an interesting and believable situation where for once the tables have turned and -instead of Penny being left out of the usual geeky/nerdy activities Leonard is indulging in- she found a kindred spirit in Raj when it comes to her interests and now Leonard is the one who has to deal with these kinds of feelings - which according to the summary he is talking out with Howardette and then Raj and Penny. I mean, sure, we don't know how this all will play out but from the summary it doesn't seem like anyone is throwing around accusations.

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1 minute ago, April said:

I'm not blaming any character for anything so I'm not sure why that ends up being part of your argument. I just think it's an interesting and believable situation where for once the tables have turned and -instead of Penny being left out of the usual geeky/nerdy activities Leonard is indulging in- she found a kindred spirit in Raj when it comes to her interests and now Leonard is the one who has to deal with these kinds of feelings - which according to the summary he is talking out with Howardette and then Raj and Penny. I mean, sure, we don't know how this all will play out but from the summary it doesn't seem like anyone is throwing around accusations.

I didn't think you were blaming anyone, I just wanted to make it clear that I didn't either. My having sympathy for Leonard doesn't mean that I was blaming Raj or Penny. It wasn't about you at all. I also think the situation is believable in terms of the tables being turned. My frustration - as you can imagine - mainly stems from the fact that Leonard and Penny have a roommate again. 

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7 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

I didn't think you were blaming anyone, I just wanted to make it clear that I didn't either. My having sympathy for Leonard doesn't mean that I was blaming Raj or Penny. It wasn't about you at all. I also think the situation is believable in terms of the tables being turned. My frustration - as you can imagine - mainly stems from the fact that Leonard and Penny have a roommate again. 

Then we're one the same page here. :)

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2 hours ago, JE7 said:

So to sum up......

tumblr_lon4mtlXAT1qb4bkbo2_500.gif

Some just prefer to look at the positives. In the show. What's the the point in being selectively cynical. When you don't have too. The shows not that bad. The Living Arrangements. Have actually freshened the show. Call me a show apologist all you want. But it's true.

 

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I think it's fair to say they perhaps need to flesh out the characters again a bit in terms of individual hobbies and interests when it comes to Penny and Leonard. It might provide some interesting storylines and perhaps some opportunities later on for them to try and do some of those things together that could generate some comedy.

But wanting them to kind of live in their own bubble almost all of the time away from their friends is an unlikely/unrealistic development. This is a show about a ridiculously close group of friends that will/want to interact a lot with each other, that has been the case for 10 years. Yes have storylines where they are alone sometimes but not all the time and before anyone says nobody wants that, that's not what I have read...

Edited by Jonny

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23 minutes ago, Jonny said:

I think it's fair to say they perhaps need to flesh out the characters again a bit in terms of individual hobbies and interests when it comes to Penny and Leonard. It might provide some interesting storylines and perhaps some opportunities later on for them to try and do some of those things together that could generate some comedy.

But wanting them to kind of live in their own bubble almost all of the time away from their friends is an unlikely/unrealistic development. This is a show about a ridiculously close group of friends that will/want to interact a lot with each other, that has been the case for 10 years. Yes have storylines where they are alone sometimes but not all the time and before anyone says nobody wants that, that's not what I have read...

Agree with the first part. The second: The thing is right now they barely jave their own storylines, Shamy for example have quite a lot. I think at least several people, including me of course, don't want Lenny to be alone all the time, just a decent amount of time. Some may want them alone all the time and they're entitled to their opinion but I also want the friends interacting as you say.

Edited by bfm
typo

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I'm working on a more detailed report right now, and I'll follow it up with a post of my opinions on how things played out. 

Thanks to everyone for the well-wishes, and I appreciate the Lenny fans who recognize I'm not at fault for reporting story info that you don't like. Keep that in mind for the longer report because you won't like that either. The only positive thing I can say for Lenny is that I don't think Raj was in any way presented as a romantic threat.
Edited by RJ1013

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7 minutes ago, RJ1013 said:

I'm working on a more detailed report right now, and I'll follow it up with a post of my opinions on how things played out. 

Thanks to everyone for the well-wishes, and I appreciate the Lenny fans who recognize I'm not at fault for reporting story info that you don't like. Keep that in mind for the longer report because you won't like that either. The only positive thing I can say for Lenny is that I don't think Raj was in any way presented as a romantic threat.

Hey we never should the Messenger ;). But I hope you had a great time and I am anxioulsy waiting for your longer report. But what you write now already confirms my bad feelings about my beloved couple. Anyhow many thanks for "spoiling "us :).

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I'm working on a more detailed report right now, and I'll follow it up with a post of my opinions on how things played out. 
Thanks to everyone for the well-wishes, and I appreciate the Lenny fans who recognize I'm not at fault for reporting story info that you don't like. Keep that in mind for the longer report because you won't like that either. The only positive thing I can say for Lenny is that I don't think Raj was in any way presented as a romantic threat.

It's so kind of you to take the time to write this out. Thank you so very much, I really appreciate it x


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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40 minutes ago, RJ1013 said:

I'm working on a more detailed report right now, and I'll follow it up with a post of my opinions on how things played out. 

Thanks to everyone for the well-wishes, and I appreciate the Lenny fans who recognize I'm not at fault for reporting story info that you don't like. Keep that in mind for the longer report because you won't like that either. The only positive thing I can say for Lenny is that I don't think Raj was in any way presented as a romantic threat.

Your precious time for doing this will be so appreciated. I really mean it with all my heart :)

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44 minutes ago, RJ1013 said:

I'm working on a more detailed report right now, and I'll follow it up with a post of my opinions on how things played out. 

Thanks to everyone for the well-wishes, and I appreciate the Lenny fans who recognize I'm not at fault for reporting story info that you don't like. Keep that in mind for the longer report because you won't like that either. The only positive thing I can say for Lenny is that I don't think Raj was in any way presented as a romantic threat.

 Thank you RJ1013 for sharing your experience with us!

51 minutes ago, RJ1013 said:

I'm working on a more detailed report right now, and I'll follow it up with a post of my opinions on how things played out. 

Thanks to everyone for the well-wishes, and I appreciate the Lenny fans who recognize I'm not at fault for reporting story info that you don't like. Keep that in mind for the longer report because you won't like that either. The only positive thing I can say for Lenny is that I don't think Raj was in any way presented as a romantic threat.

...also, love your avatar!!!

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There were two stories in this episode, so instead of going in order, I'm going to summarize the two separately. Each paragraph represents a scene.


"The Collaboration Fluctuation"

Director: Mark Cendrowski
Story by: Chuck Lorre, Tara Hernandez, and Giuseppe Graziano
Teleplay by: Steven Molaro, Steve Holland, and Dave Goetsch

Penny and Raj are doing yoga in the living room of 4A. Penny forgot about her breakfast plans with Leonard. Raj says it's his fault because he asked her to do yoga with him. Raj asks if Leonard will take Cinnamon for a walk. Leonard agrees, sarcastically saying that Raj is living with them, so why not do him more favors? Leonard picks up the dog and Penny says 'bye sweetie'. Leonard says goodbye, and she says oh yeah, goodbye to him too. He's back with the dog in mere seconds with a wet spot on his pants. Obviously Cinnamon didn't make it outside to go.

In the kitchen, Raj and Penny gossip/discuss the people she works with. Leonard doesn't recognize any of the names of the people they talk about.

On the couch, Penny and Raj are wearing matching facial moisturizing masks. Leonard suggests playing a board game, but Raj and Penny want to go shopping. 

Leonard goes with them, and he looks bored and cranky throughout a music montage of Raj and Penny happily shopping for makeup, shoes, and clothes, including matching floral shirts. The song playing is "Happy Together" by the Turtles.

In the minivan with Howard, Bernadette, and Halley's car seat, Leonard is accompanying them on a trip to Target, seeming happy to be included in something.

At Target, Bernadette asks if Leonard's bothered by Raj and Penny spending time together in the sense that he's another man. Leonard says he might've been, but then he saw them in those matching shirts. He just feels left out of all their girly activities. Besides, Raj was his friend first.

Back at 4A, Raj is teaching Penny how to savor a good wine. They ask Leonard a question, and then realize he's not there and wonder when he left. Penny thinks that was rude of him (Leonard). 

In the minivan again, Bernadette urges Leonard to talk to Penny and Raj about his feelings. 

At 4A, he explains to Penny and Raj, who interrupt him repeatedly. He's annoyed that they're leaving him out of his own explanation of how he has been feeling left out. They agree to go do something that Leonard wants to do to try to make it up to him. He chooses to browse for books at a book store. 

This time Penny is the one who looks bored as Leonard and Raj happily shop for books. 

-----

In Amy's car, Sheldon tells her about the project with the guys. To obey confidentiality requirements, he beeps the horn for the 'redacted' parts. Amy offers to tell him about her work. Apparently small muscle movements begin before a person becomes consciously aware of their own decision to move. She's working to measure/understand that super short instant. 

At the cafeteria with the guys, Sheldon tells them about Amy's work and that he thinks it might be relevant to an important issue in quantum mechanics.

Back at 4B, Sheldon and Amy discuss her work and its relevance to physics. They mention the Copenhagen interpretation and Amy wonders if they can pinpoint the exact moment that the wave function collapses. She is concerned about them working together in an academic context. They decide to make ground rules. Sheldon suggests the first one: no one should use their sexuality to get their way. Amy is perplexed. Sheldon demonstrates by doing an exaggerated hip-wiggling walk across the room towards their bedroom.          

Sheldon reads some rules out of his notebook. He wants final say about physics, and she can have the same for neuroscience, unless he disagrees with her. He wants to be first on anything they publish and first to speak at awards, etc. Amy is having none of that. She swipes the notebook and tosses it out their open kitchen window. The first ground rule, she says, is that she makes the rules.

Amy has a list of rules. They're a team, not competing with one another. No insults, etc.

A montage follows, also to the song "Happy Together." They fill up 5 or so whiteboards with calculations. When they are done, they look it over and come to an agreement: it's complete garbage.

Annoyed by the poor results, they try to figure it out. Sheldon complains about Amy's breathing and insists she blow her nose. She does so over and over, loudly right up in his face. Then he realizes the breathing sounds were actually just him anyway. 

Amy says she knew it was a bad idea to work together. Sheldon notices a problem on the board and fixes it. It should make a big difference. They get back to fighting. Then Amy notices something. He says it's her first good idea of the day, and suggests that their arguing might be helping. Amy says fight/flight hormones might be improving their cognitive processes. Faced with scientific progress vs. risking their personal relationship, Sheldon votes science. Amy calls him a bonehead and more ideas for their work flow from Sheldon.

Tag: Amy reads the revised rules. They are a team, but it is a competition. There are such things as stupid questions. And it's okay to point out how stupid right to the person's stupid face. That one's Sheldon's favorite. The final rule is a list of allowed insult categories, including fields of study, educational background and mothers. Sheldon tries it out, something about Amy's mother and sailors.

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2 hours ago, April said:

The bold is pretty much my point. Penny as a character can't do anything on her own - she is stuck with what the writers are giving her which is a bunch of people, lovely as they may be, that she has a hard time relating to because they're all so much smarter than her and have special interests that she can't get into even after she tried.

Are they that much smarter?  Better educated? Yes.  But she's not stupid. Ignorant about academic things? Yes.  Stupid? No.

Her role has been to act as their translator to 'real life'.  That's still an important role.

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Thanks so much for the detailed report, @RJ1013. Both stories seem fun but also very thoughtfull as they might bring some questions about characters's relationships very interisting to analyse. Really appreciated the detailed stories :)

Edited by spidergirl

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17 hours ago, veejay said:

That’s not the worst idea. What about Emily? She seems pretty confident with Penny (and Bernie) since S9 - The Empathy Optimization.

I admit I'm prejudiced because I loathed the Emily character, although I like the actress well enough, but I don't think she will ever truly get over Raj telling her he slept with Penny. I'm not sure if she's actually the type to forgive, and I do not see her at all as the type to forget.

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