[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[Kathy2611]

I don't think the brown couch will go anywhere because it IS Leonard's couch.  He bought it.

But the teal couch needs to go not only because it belongs to someone who doesn't even live there anymore, but because I think it will finally cement in the minds of fans who still complain about Shamy being in 4B instead of 4A that yes, the move is permanent and it's not changing back.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Kathy2611
Stupid auto correct

[BigBang15]

7 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

 

Really the lie he cheated and lied for two years. You think that's not a pretty bad foundation to start a marrage? Okay whatever you say. Lieing to your spouse. For a sustained period of time. My CLAIMS are based on actual examples. I know you like deconstructing people point of views. But theirs been an obvious pattern developing since then. I named all examples to back up my point of view. My claims are not incorrect. They are not claims. As it is like Chrismo said Lenny have struggled to communicate since 1.17. So it's nothing new. But even though out of all the couples Lenny have nothing in common. Yet managed to communicate the best out of all couples. The past two and a bit seasons  that part of their dynamic has steadily declined. 

One, he didn't cheat. We've all went thru this hundreds of time. It wasn't cheating. Two, he didn't lie. He never said he didn't kiss Mandy (or anyone for that matter). He just never said anything about it. How is that a lie?

Three, the wedding took place AFTER he told Penny about the kiss and he gave her an out if she wanted it.

[Cloud Strife]

40 minutes ago, BigBang15 said:

One, he didn't cheat. We've all went thru this hundreds of time. It wasn't cheating.

 

It's a very complicated subject because everyone is looking at these kind of things so differently. In fact, Penny was able to look past it and give him another chance, but that doesn't mean everyone else would've done the same.

[mirs1]

51 minutes ago, BigBang15 said:

One, he didn't cheat. We've all went thru this hundreds of time. It wasn't cheating. Two, he didn't lie. He never said he didn't kiss Mandy (or anyone for that matter). He just never said anything about it. How is that a lie?

Three, the wedding took place AFTER he told Penny about the kiss and he gave her an out if she wanted it.

There is no absolute truth about such matters as what people perceive as cheating or lying. Some people think that kissing another person, albeit drunk, is cheating and\or concealing the truth is indeed lying, it's their opinion and nothing others can say will change that. The important think in the instance at hands is that, whatever opinion Penny had, she has moved on and, based on the fact she has never brought up the subject again, she has probably forgiven/forgotten Leonard's indiscretion.

Edited March 13, 2017 by mirs1

[spidergirl]

5 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

There is no absolute truth about such matters as cheating and what people perceive as a lie. Some people think that kissing another person, albeit drunk, is cheating and\or concealing the truth is indeed lying, it's their opinion and nothing others can say will change that. The important think in the instance at hands is that, whatever opinion Penny had, she has moved on and, based on the fact she has never brought up the subject again, she has probably forgiven/forgotten Leonard's indiscretion.

Agree. Whatever means cheating for some, it is diferente for others, even  cheating will be always mean cheating. Imo what matters in end is how the couple handled with the subject and if they were able to move on as the reasons that led to the cheating were fixed. In my pov lenny had move on about the Mandy kiss and about Raj incidente long time ago. They have now imo to work more about their communication as couple.

Edited March 13, 2017 by spidergirl

[BigBang15]

7 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

There is no absolute truth about such matters as cheating and what people perceive as a lie. Some people think that kissing another person, albeit drunk, is cheating and\or concealing the truth is indeed lying, it's their opinion and nothing others can say will change that. The important think in the instance at hands is that, whatever opinion Penny had, she has moved on and, based on the fact she has never brought up the subject again, she has probably forgiven/forgotten Leonard's indiscretion.

"Concealing the truth" being the same as a lie is only presented in an argument by the person something was concealed from.

[mirs1]

5 minutes ago, BigBang15 said:

"Concealing the truth" being the same as a lie is only presented in an argument by the person something was concealed from.

I.e. by the only person who has to judge if that was a lie...

[veejay]

I take a look at Penny's face and do realize some subject is pretty rotten nowadays.

[hokie3457]

11 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

I.e. by the only person who has to judge if that was a lie...

 Kind of opening a can of worms and getting off subject, but.......I think that the only person that gets to decide if they are being lied to is the "victim" (in this case, Penny).  To me, you don't get to say you're not lying if someone else considers that you are.  It is the classic Costanza trope "it isn't a lie if you believe it" or Obi-Wan's "so what I told you is true, from a certain point of view".  If Penny believes she was lied to, then she was lied to.  (again, my opinion).

[April]

35 minutes ago, bfm said:

Yes I think you are right, I remembered they talked about the sword so that didn't surprised me but the rest seems like just tiny bits with no logic behind it or just prominent things that would bother the audience too much. Why didn't they take Amy's sofa? They could move Penny's to 4A, maybe out it in Sheldon's old room or storage and take the pillows to their bedroom. They did move the pictures from the fridge because Shamy having them would bother most of the viewers but they didn't move pictures from the 4A fridge and I don't think they were all Leonard's. They also didn't move the DNA model, if I remember correctly Sheldon built that. I would like to see the apartments redecorated in a logical way after the hiatus (if the writers won't make the most stupid decision of splitting Lenny by then). I can't find a reason for the characters not to invest more in redecorating. Both couples could live in these apartments for some years. I don't see Shamy having children in the next 2 years, IMO Sheldon will need time to get ready and Amy is not there yet (I think she is much more prepared to be a parnt than Sheldon but she doesn't want it right now). Lenny could live in 4A even with 2 young children, they have the other bedroom. 

From a production point of view it made sense cause they didn't know whether S10 would be the end or not and doing some major redecoration for only a handful of episodes seems not worth it. Now S11/12 looks like it's a done deal and I think they can be a bit more bold with their choices.

From the character's point of view it's probably a bit more complicated. Or at least for Shamy. Their little talk about where they could live ended up inconclusive. The most I could get out of it is that they're staying in 4B until they found something better but seeing how picky Sheldon is it could easily take them years to find a fitting place. Question then remains: Would they invest in new furniture for that time period? They did decide to redecorate a little and the first thing Sheldon wanted to throw out was that god damn couch. Amy vetoed that because it's Penny's but they could easily have a scene where Penny gives her okay and they throw out all the old stuff. The whole gag with the Batman statue seemed to indicate that Shamy aren't done yet with their redecorations so I guess anything's possible. Fingers crossed!

[spidergirl]

 

14 minutes ago, veejay said:

I take a look at Penny's face and do realize some subject is pretty rotten nowadays.

The cat is alive or dead? The big question ...

 

[Tensor]

22 minutes ago, BigBang15 said:

"Concealing the truth" being the same as a lie is only presented in an argument by the person something was concealed from.

Not necessarily, I consider concealing the truth the same as a lie.  Lying by omissision, is lying. But, others may not think so, we all have our own interpretation, that just may align with others interpretations, or not. 

[joyceraye]

12 minutes ago, BigBang15 said:

"Concealing the truth" being the same as a lie is only presented in an argument by the person something was concealed from.

However it's regarded, in Leonard's case the event bothered him enough as a 'regret' for him to discuss it with Howard and eventually to bring it up to his bride before his wedding. It had had no relevance to his relationship with Penny at the time so he'd decided to keep it to himself. When the kissing happened, it wasn't a matter of truth, lies or hidden truth : there wasn't an effect on Penny. It didn't concern her. It made no difference to anybody. He changed his mind later because as time went on it was something he couldn't forget ; in his memory it felt as though he'd done wrong, and he thought his conscience might affect their marriage after all.

[BigBang15]

10 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Not necessarily, I consider concealing the truth the same as a lie.  Lying by omissision, is lying. But, others may not think so, we all have our own interpretation, that just may align with others interpretations, or not. 

But it's not. Not legally at minimum. A lie is telling someone something that is not true. You have to tell someone something for it to either be a lie or the truth.

[veejay]

13 minutes ago, spidergirl said:

The cat is alive or dead? The big question ...

Yeah, but i like the dead one on this case. LOL

19 minutes ago, April said:

From a production point of view it made sense cause they didn't know whether S10 would be the end or not and doing some major redecoration for only a handful of episodes seems not worth it. Now S11/12 looks like it's a done deal and I think they can be a bit more bold with their choices.

From the character's point of view it's probably a bit more complicated. Or at least for Shamy. Their little talk about where they could live ended up inconclusive. The most I could get out of it is that they're staying in 4B until they found something better but seeing how picky Sheldon is it could easily take them years to find a fitting place. Question then remains: Would they invest in new furniture for that time period? They did decide to redecorate a little and the first thing Sheldon wanted to throw out was that god damn couch. Amy vetoed that because it's Penny's but they could easily have a scene where Penny gives her okay and they throw out all the old stuff. The whole gag with the Batman statue seemed to indicate that Shamy aren't done yet with their redecorations so I guess anything's possible. Fingers crossed!

Hm, they obviously look on Amazon, but Batman probably takes the decisive place away. Very pleased with Sheldon.

[Tensor]

12 minutes ago, BigBang15 said:

But it's not. Not legally at minimum. A lie is telling someone something that is not true. You have to tell someone something for it to either be a lie or the truth.

Actually, not giving full relavant information, is considered deception, which can be legally considered a lie. 

[No Regrets]

13 minutes ago, BigBang15 said:

But it's not. Not legally at minimum. A lie is telling someone something that is not true. You have to tell someone something for it to either be a lie or the truth.

I tend to agree with this. Otherwise one could argue that Penny lied to Leonard about thinking of breaking up with him in 6x02, which by the way he still has no idea about.

[Mario D.]

13 hours ago, Tensor said:

 

One isolated incidence? How about Randall?  How about moving his things without telling him? How about telling him she didn't want to go to Comic-con?   And either way, Penny is wrong for not communicating with Leonard.  Just like Leonard was wrong after returning from the North Sea. 

 

Again, you are comparing what Leonard did, with what Penny did, and implying it's OK for Penny to do that, just because Leonard did what he did.  Basically, your saying since it's not as bad as you see Leonard's action to be, Penny should be allowed to do it.    

 

Actually it began before that.  But, again they both have communication issues.

Based on what, exactly?  I can point out instances where both of them have problems communicating.  And if they both have problems, it isn't any one of them.  What exactly is the difference between Penny not communicating and Leonard not communicating that absolves Penny from any contribution to their problems?

What lie?  The Leoanrd's?  But Penny knew about it, so there wasn't a lie starting the marriage.  If he hadn't told her, then yeah, you could say it was built on a lie.  

Actually, it's the writers that stopped writing them as being able to communicate. There are multiple instances where they writers showed them communicating in seasons six and seven.  But, with fewer chances to show them doing anything alone, that's gone away.    

 

Yeah, but you'll notice that he was listening to her.  She is the one that's been shown not to listen.  Understandable as it mostly goes over her head.   Since the entire episode is about Penny doing things with Raj, instead of Leonard, for me, it makes sense to think she didn't tell Leonard, but did tell Raj.  But you are right, it could be either way. 

 

My problem wasn't with the majority of the episode, it was at the end, when they moved Raj in.  I said they would put him in the middle of their marriage, and it went there in the very next episode.  What pisses me off about it, is simply they can't seem to write Leonard and Penny by themselves.  

Would the season finale be a good one if they  go together and visit Dr. Gallo (Jane Kaczmarek) as they both said she helped them get over some of their anxieties. She might be able to alleviate their communication problems.  Don't know why the writers never explored this further

[Stephen Hawking]

On 3/12/2017 at 0:10 PM, serena_1995 said:

or S/L dialogue about whether they are living in the Matrix were fun.

I think my favorite cafeteria discussion, is the one about anthropic principle.

[spidergirl]

1 hour ago, veejay said:

Yeah, but i like the dead one on this case. LOL

 

 

1 hour ago, veejay said:

Hm, they obviously look on Amazon, but Batman probably takes the decisive place away. Very pleased with Sheldon.

I love Batman but this statue is as cool as scary, lol!

However it would be a great spot for my cats have fun! Might save money for that!

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2017 by spidergirl

[Stephen Hawking]

4 hours ago, Kathy2611 said:

I don't think the brown couch will go anywhere because it IS Leonard's couch.  He bought it.

But, according to the, end of roommate agreement, agreement (the one they signed in the 2003 approximation), ownership of the living room couch was transferred to Sheldon, in perpetuity, all throughout the universe, and all alternate universes, except for those universes where owning a couch is forbidden by the hive queen.

4 hours ago, BigBang15 said:

He never said he didn't kiss Mandy (or anyone for that matter). He just never said anything about it. How is that a lie?

It was lying by omission?

3 hours ago, spidergirl said:

In my pov Lenny had move on about the Mandy kiss and about Raj incident long time ago.

There's a difference between the Mandy case, and the Raj case, which is that, in the Mandy case, Leonard and Penny were together, whereas, in the Raj case, they weren't, so Penny was single, and free to do as she pleased, with whomever she chose.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Stephen Hawking

[Zephon75]

19 hours ago, Cloud Strife said:

I simply don't understand why everyone expects Penny to do everything exclusively with Leonard, just because he's her husband. They're allowed to have friends and spend time with said friends. There's nothing weird about it.

I  don't have a issue with Penny spending time with friends,and no she doesn't have to do everything exclusively with her husband.However in the next episode it goes beyond spending time with a friend it's her actually doing loads of things with Raj.while essentially ignoring Leonard.

[Stephen Hawking]

4 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

while essentially ignoring Leonard.

Which, by comparison, is something Sheldon likes.

From The Weekend Vortex:-

Amy: Our record for sitting in a room together, and not speaking to each other, is six-and-a half hours. He said it was a magical evening.

[spidergirl]

27 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

But, according to the, end of roommate agreement, agreement (the one they signed the 2003 approximation), ownership of the living room couch was transferred to Sheldon, in perpetuity, all throughout the universe, and all alternate universes, except for those universes where owning a couch is forbidden by the hive queen.

It was lying by omission?

There's a difference between the Mandy case, and the Raj case, which is that, in the Mandy case, Leonard and Penny were together, whereas, in the Raj case, they weren't, so Penny was single, and free to do as she pleased, with whomever she chose.

Course there is a difference between the two situations. I have just meant Leonard and Penny seem imo they had move on about both .

[Cloud Strife]

32 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

However in the next episode it goes beyond spending time with a friend it's her actually doing loads of things with Raj.while essentially ignoring Leonard.

That's where the comedy kicks in. The whole thing is exaggerated on purpose, otherwise there wouldn't be anything funny about it. If you start to not take everything too seriously, you'll probably see it in a different light. I know this is not Penny's overall attitude towards Leonard, so I accept it as a joke.