[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[Stephen Hawking]

8 hours ago, Chrismo said:

But writing poetry about her performing a sex act and letting that information get out is so so wrong.

Raj didn't exactly let it get out.

Priya told Leonard about the poems, then Leonard blurted it out at in the cafeteria, in front of Howard.

17 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

It's like they are avoiding the elephant in the room.

Don't you mean the tweepadock in the room?  

Edited March 18, 2017 by Stephen Hawking

[JohnPhD]

Rewatched 323 to confirm Leonard's going along with Penny's drunken desire for sex is not  any way comparable to Raj's taking advantage of her helplessness in 424, I noticed how much more they did in each ep than they do now. And was the dialogue funnier then than now?  There's also some great facial acting by KC; Penny hardly says a word in the scene with Zack and the guys on the roof, but her embarrassment is the heart of the scene.

The only worthwhile long-term story arc pretty much finished with the scene at the train station in 724, when Penny and Leonard as an engaged couple walked away from Sheldon about to set out on his wanderings. Now we're in the disappointing sequel.

That would have been the time for a Seldon-centred spinoff - Sheldon's train odessy around America.

Edited March 18, 2017 by JohnPhD

[Chrismo]

4 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

Raj didn't exactly let it get out.

Priya told Leonard about the poems, then Leonard blurted it out at in the cafeteria, in front of Howard.

True.  The clarinet part Howard didn't hear about till skank reflex but that was sort of the end of a series of events:

Boyfriend Complexity: Raj tried to kiss Bernadette in front of Howard.

Thespian Catalyst: He dreamed two different events. One was Howard leaving the country the other Howard dying in an accident. In both cases he was suppose to fulfill her sexual needs. Then at the end he dreamed that Bollywood dance

Herb Garden- That was the episode that Priya told Leonard about  the poems and Bernadette playing his clarinet. It was also was when the rest of the group, including Raj, found out that Bernadette was thinking about breaking up with Howard. Everything was sad but Raj. he went over to CF to see her and talked to Penny. In the end he was the one who was upset when Howard proposed and she said yes.

while for many it's disturbing to have Raj living with Lenny. To me it's more upsetting of his actual presence not what did or didn't happen with Penny. He had ample opportunity in season 4 to try to get together with Penny. Instead he was fantasizing about hooking up with his best friends girlfriend. Thst just seems a lot worse to me.

[Chrismo]

2 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

Rewatched 323 to confirm Leonard's going along with Penny's drunken desire for sex is not  any way comparable to Raj's taking advantage of her helplessness in 424,

While I agree with the rest of your post I don't on this part. 323 had a drunk Penny leading Leonard to his bedroom. 424 saw a drunk Penny and a drinking Raj in the living room. How they got to the bedroom is skipped and to this day we don't know how they got there. 323 in some ways is not any different than 321. The main differences were Dr. Plimpton was sober Penny was not and Dr. Plimpton didn't regret her decision but Penny did. Leonard's  she let me have sex decision works with Dr. Plimpton and not with Penny because of Penny's drunkenness. I'm not sure how Penny was any less helpless in 323 than 424.

 

[Mario D.]

16 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

The fact. What really happened that night. The poem etc. Has not been fully disclosed. Raj seemed to get away with it. I'm sure if Leonard knew the full facts. He may not be so comfortable with the new LA. You know Raj bragging about bedding Penny. Even though he technically diddnt. Although I maintain an isolated incident. That occurred between them 7 years ago. When Leonard was in a relationship with someone else. Is irrelevant. It is still crossing boundaries severely. To have that said friend (Raj) live with the now said married couple. Despite no potential of anything detrimental occurring. The whole scenario is just plain odd. And the more and more I look at those pictures of Penny/Raj matching shirts. I just want to burn them lol.

Could not agree with you more.  No one really knows what happened with Raj and Penny, except what she stated that they "did not sleep together only got drunk and fooled around"  However, if I were Leonard I would feel uncomfortable with Raj living there: 1) since he boasted about them being lovers, 2) doing "stuff" with her and then getting matching shirts, shouldn't that be with your husband and not your perceived "lover"  This whole scenario seems to be going somewhere and I only hope it ends on a good note.

[JohnPhD]

3 hours ago, Chrismo said:

True.  The clarinet part Howard didn't hear about till skank reflex but that was sort of the end of a series of events:

Boyfriend Complexity: Raj tried to kiss Bernadette in front of Howard.

Thespian Catalyst: He dreamed two different events. One was Howard leaving the country the other Howard dying in an accident. In both cases he was suppose to fulfill her sexual needs. Then at the end he dreamed that Bollywood dance

Herb Garden- That was the episode that Priya told Leonard about  the poems and Bernadette playing his clarinet. It was also was when the rest of the group, including Raj, found out that Bernadette was thinking about breaking up with Howard. Everything was sad but Raj. he went over to CF to see her and talked to Penny. In the end he was the one who was upset when Howard proposed and she said yes.

while for many it's disturbing to have Raj living with Lenny. To me it's more upsetting of his actual presence not what did or didn't happen with Penny. He had ample opportunity in season 4 to try to get together with Penny. Instead he was fantasizing about hooking up with his best friends girlfriend. Thst just seems a lot worse to me.

Also in 523 The Launch Acceleration what Raj said at Howard's stag party that Will Wheaton put on Facebook or something  almost caused Bernadette to break off and cancel the wedding. Malice or idiocy?

[Enrico Fermi]

22 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

Also in 523 The Launch Acceleration what Raj said at Howard's stag party that Will Wheaton put on Facebook or something  almost caused Bernadette to break off and cancel the wedding. Malice or idiocy?

A joke.

Or maybe Raj is really an evil mastermind who teamed up with Wil Wheaton just so he could break up all his friends' relationships.  You're next, Shamy.

[Stephen Hawking]

25 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

Malice or idiocy?

I'm going with idiocy, or maybe too much drink.

[3ku11]

You could also compare 4.24 to 2.15 or what ever it was The Maternal Capictance. When Lenny were pretty drunk. And almost had sex. Difference of course Penny and Leonard had already gone on a date, kissed etc. 4.24 Penny made it clear to Raj she would never date him due to them being just friends. Raj then withheld information to Penny. So I see the difference. In trust between Lenny and Penny and Raj. You could also reference The Middle Earth Paradigm. In comparison with The Roommate Transmogrification. Penny was pretty drunk. Sure Leonard wasent. But when we hear Raj has more recollection in 5.01. It suggests he was more lupid. And like Leonard in Middle Earth. Should of been the responsible one. Of course you can also compare 3.23 to 4.24. As some often do. But like it's been established. Lenny had a previous romantic relationship. And did a lot more. So despite Penny being just as drunk. The circumstances were very different. Their again was more trust their. To me history is a key component.

Of course the main thing is does Penny in any of those examples consider any of the incidents non-consensual? Based on her actions no. Based on Leonard's actions over the years has he apart from The Recombination Hypothesis. Seemed bothered by their one night? Currently? Nope. Has the show treated their tryst anymore then just a running gag over the years? Nope. I think that's the take away.

[Stephen Hawking]

36 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Raj then withheld information to Penny.

What information was that?

[SRAM]

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

You could also compare 4.24 to 2.15 or what ever it was The Maternal Capictance. When Lenny were pretty drunk. And almost had sex. Difference of course Penny and Leonard had already gone on a date, kissed etc. 4.24 Penny made it clear to Raj she would never date him due to them being just friends. Raj then withheld information to Penny. So I see the difference. In trust between Lenny and Penny and Raj. You could also reference The Middle Earth Paradigm. In comparison with The Roommate Transmogrification. Penny was pretty drunk. Sure Leonard wasent. But when we hear Raj has more recollection in 5.01. It suggests he was more lupid. And like Leonard in Middle Earth. Should of been the responsible one. Of course you can also compare 3.23 to 4.24. As some often do. But like it's been established. Lenny had a previous romantic relationship. And did a lot more. So despite Penny being just as drunk. The circumstances were very different. Their again was more trust their. To me history is a key component.

Of course the main thing is does Penny in any of those examples consider any of the incidents non-consensual? Based on her actions no. Based on Leonard's actions over the years has he apart from The Recombination Hypothesis. Seemed bothered by their one night? Currently? Nope. Has the show treated their tryst anymore then just a running gag over the years? Nope. I think that's the take away.

I don't know if I'm the only one that sees it this way, but in 3.23 Penny seemuus first self conscious about Leonard seeing going out with Zack, then embarrassed about him while on the roof, finally herding him out of there, in the end.  I think Penny was like that because in a way, especially after dating Leonard,  Penny now identifies with the gang more than the type she use to hang out with, which Zack is an example of.  Her getting drunk at the party with Zack, was to cushion both her embarrassment and her want to be with her real friends because she didn't relate with those people as much anymore..  She still had feelings for Leonard, her previously getting so upset about Dr. Slutbunny proving that, something she had no reason to get upset about, remember she dumped him, but she was upset still because she was not ready to let him go.   So  I think her drinking, then going to Leonard, was her letting her inner feelings out, the next morning after getting sober again, her realizing how wrong she was in what she did, and her saying it was 'a mistake' meaning it shouldn't have happened but that not  meaning she didn't want it to happen.  This happened again in 'Love Car' (4.13), it was a very sober Penny that told Leonard it wouldn't be so bad to violate the 'Neutral Zone', why wasn't that 'a mistake' too, after all Leonard took that encounter the same way too.  The bottom line is Penny wanted to be with Leonard, even have sex with him, when they were broken up, her problem was that she just couldn't handle the commitment issue with him.  Penny couldn't just pay Leonard's 'I love you' lip service like she did with other guys, with Leonard 'I love you' really meant something it was not something to take lightly, so Penny couldn't deal with it.

Now look at 4.24, what part of the previous paragraph did she share with Raj, nothing.  Penny got drunk while thinking about Leonard and Raj got drunk while thinking about Penny.  Raj's biggest fault was that he was not going to turn down a chance to do Penny and Penny knew that so that is why she didn't put all the blame on him, she knew how she was when full out drunk, anything with anyone.  She didn't want Raj and she was more concerned about what Leonard thought about what happened than Raj and his fantasy dreams of Kothrapenny.

So 3.23 and 4.24 were nothing alike in my book.  4.13 and 3.23 are the ones that are really similar.

[Itwasdestined]

And we do realise that Raj living with Lenny was actually Leonard's idea? Clearly IN THE SHOW ( but not in our over critical/over analytical minds) he has no problem with it. Of course our "damn continuity and logic" writers may change that next week!


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[Die Zimtzicke]

On 3/16/2017 at 7:06 PM, mirs1 said:

I wonder how much the show gets for those ads, there are a lot of them during the episodes, either a product is mentioned by the characters or it's a prop which casually faces the camera so conveniently!

I'd rather have product placement than more commercials.

[Die Zimtzicke]

On 3/16/2017 at 7:54 PM, Tensor said:

And I disagree it's cute.  I haven't seen a cute Leonard and Penny Episode this year( an most of the last three  years).  There have been a few cute episodes in eight and nine, dirty store, slutty carrot, a couple of others.  But this year, there's been some cute moments here and there, but that's about it.

So true. Even the wedding was not cute since most of it was taken up by the drama between the parents.

[BigBang15]

16 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

So true. Even the wedding was not cute since most of it was taken up by the drama between the parents.

And if S10E01 were just the parents sitting in the background at the wedding, everyone would be complaining "oh they brought in a bunch of relatives and did nothing with them". It was  mix of the parents stories and the wedding.

[3ku11]

3 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

What information was that?

That Priya was leaving.

1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

So true. Even the wedding was not cute since most of it was taken up by the drama between the parents.

Lenny were cute the whole episode. In 10.01, Including their vows. The question was name a Cute Lenny episode this season. That qualifies. Despite the other characters actions. You could also argue 10.04 was a cute Lenny episode. Angry Lenny is Also fun too imo.

Edited March 19, 2017 by 3ku11

[Stephen Hawking]

19 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

That Priya was leaving.

Firstly, we don't know, that Raj knew his sister was leaving.

Secondly, why would knowing Priya was going back to India, be of interest to Penny?

Edited March 19, 2017 by Stephen Hawking

[Tensor]

5 hours ago, BigBang15 said:

It was  mix of the parents stories and the wedding.

It was no such thing. It was the story of the parents, with a minor mix of Wedding and Howardette/Raj.

There were 20:05 of show (and 11 minutes of commercials 3:30 after the cold open, 4:30 at the midpoint, and 3:00 before the tag)

Of those 20 minutes, there was 1:00 of recap, 11:45 of parents, 3:45 of Howard, Bernadette and Raj with the Project, and 3:30 of the wedding, and that includes the 45 seconds of Sheldon doing his "I need this to be about me" interruption.   So, the Wedding wasn't even the second plot, it was the third, in terms of time.  If you take out Sheldon's interruption, it didn't even make it to three minutes of time. 

Now, there were comments about the wedding, within the parent sections.  And, bits of actual time where the parents were talking about things other than the wedding, during the wedding.  There was more talk about parents at the wedding, than there was talk about the wedding in parent's clips.  But, I didn't take that away from the wedding, as I thought it was pretty much like Howardette's wedding in this.   

I rounded some of the times, (e.g. 1:11 and 1:12 to 1:10 along with 1:13 and 1:14 to 1:15).  But if anyone thinks I'm that far off, feel free to time it yourself.  

4 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

Firstly, we don't know, that Raj knew his sister was leaving.

Secondly, why would knowing Priya was going back to India, be of interest to Penny?

Firstly, we also don't know if he didn't know.  However, he didn't object when Leonard yelled at Raj for not telling him she was leaving. 

Secondly, she told Raj she screwed up by breaking up with him.  I'm willing to bet she would have been very interested that Priya was leaving, and (that night anyway) thinking she would have another shot at him.

[joyceraye]

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

That Priya was leaving.

Lenny were cute the whole episode. In 10.01, Including their vows. The question was name a Cute Lenny episode this season. That qualifies. Despite the other characters actions. You could also argue 10.04 was a cute Lenny episode. Angry Lenny is Also fun too imo.

We didn't hear the vows. Bernie skipped them after Sheldon interrupted.

[3ku11]

10 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

We didn't hear the vows. Bernie skipped them after Sheldon interrupted.

Yeah we heard Penny's vows. And Leonard's vows. Sheldon interrupted after they said their vows.

Edited March 19, 2017 by 3ku11

[vonmar]

8 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

We didn't hear the vows. Bernie skipped them after Sheldon interrupted.

They said their vows...then Albert & Beverly spoke about Leonard and then Sheldon interrupted.  

[Stephen Hawking]

9 hours ago, Tensor said:

However, he didn't object when Leonard yelled at Raj for not telling him she was leaving. 

Secondly, she told Raj she screwed up by breaking up with him.  I'm willing to bet she would have been very interested that Priya was leaving, and (that night anyway) thinking she would have another shot at him.

He didn't get a chance to object. Howard interrupted the conversation, with his remark about Raj "writing clumsy penis metaphors about my fiancee."

9 hours ago, Tensor said:

Secondly, she told Raj she screwed up by breaking up with him.  I'm willing to bet she would have been very interested that Priya was leaving, and (that night anyway) thinking she would have another shot at him.

Given Leonard and Priya continued their relationship, when Priya went back to India, Penny had no chance of getting back with Leonard, unless she planned to have sex with him behind Priya's back.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Stephen Hawking

[BigBang15]

Wow! I thought I had a lot of free time....

[joyceraye]

10 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Yeah we heard Penny's vows. And Leonard's vows. Sheldon interrupted after they said their vows.

No there were nice things said but no vows included. They were about to do the vows bit when Sheldon interrupted and then Bernadette skipped to the end.

[Tensor]

 

2 hours ago, BigBang15 said:

Wow! I thought I had a lot of free time....

That happens when you have an illness with chronic pain, and during a flare up, you can't do much of anything, except sit and watch TV, and even that is painful, But, your comment doesn't refute the fact that the episode wasn't a mix of parents and wedding.  The wedding was the C-plot, in terms of time.  

Even if I didn't  have the pain, it's not that big of a deal, it took only ten minutes, to do this.  Fast forward, and the time on the bottom of the screen, make it go quickly. 

2 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

He didn't get a chance to object. Howard interrupted the conversation, with his remark about Raj "writing clumsy penis metaphors about my fiancee."

To which Raj refuted the metaphors were clumsy(screw you those were beautiful penis metaphors) but never refuted Leonard's contention he knew she was leaving. 

Quote

Given Leonard and Priya continued their relationship, when Priya went back to India, Penny had no chance of getting back with Leonard, unless she planned to have sex with him behind Priya's back.

But that night, she didn't know, all she knew would have known was that Priya was leaving. And even Leonard, that night, thought he and Priya were breaking up, because she was leaving( ...we're obviously breaking up... and the "I'm alone and confused).  It was only a few days later, after the Paintball contest that he was back to having a girlfriend. And I'd say, coming off of the way Priya decieved him, if he knew Penny still had feelings for him, the long distance relationship wouldn't have happened. 

But then, I've maintained that TPTB knew they were done with the Priya arc, and that this was simply a way of keeping Lenny apart for another half season. The after all, it only took five episodes to get them back together, after Leonard and Priya broke up.