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[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10


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Ok I'm gong to type up a quick repost.. I's tired af and I didn't take notes so it will be brief. I will add dialog but it wont be accurate to the actual taping as there were lots of re-writes. T

Hi all. Just a quick report. Got to pack our bags for a flight to San Francisco in the morning Episode was called "The Separation Agitation". If anything it was centered on Bert and StuHowardette mor

OK, here's the full taping report, courtesy of a super kind and likeable person. A million thanks to her. The unaltered wording reads as follows:  

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19 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

Sometimes I think we give tptb to much credit for knowing what their doing. They are just people like us who make mistakes too. I don't think every story line they have come up with has worked the way they thought it would so they have to make corrections it's just how life works

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Thanks, plain and simple but…

overthink2.gif

…that’s the comfort zone. :shy:

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My opinion about the writers is that they have a formula that works.  They have the ratings which is amazing considering that the show is on it's 10th season.  Anything major threatens to change that formula.  Thus Lenny get engaged and it takes awhile to marry.  They finally marry and rather than address living arrangements they adjust to appease Sheldon.

Shamy has sex but on Sheldon's terms.  Amy would like to do it again.  However, they leave things open enough that Sheldon can be clueless and on the flip be enlightened when the story warrants.   

They have what 2 possibly 3 more seasons after 10?  I think as long as the ratings remain decent I expect stall tactics to continue to be the norm. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be pleasantly surprised and see major shake-ups but the last few seasons have taught me that sets me up for disappointment in the long run.     

Edited by Denise07
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19 hours ago, SRAM said:

So Amy is a professional maid-of-honor now, being it in Bernadette's and now Penny's wedding.  I wonder if she is saving the dresses like that movie "27 Dresses"?  (And yes I am embarrassed that I know that)

Especially as Professor Slut Bunny was also in that film, oops! Sad that I know that.

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1 hour ago, legacy99 said:

Sometimes I think we give tptb to much credit for knowing what their doing. They are just people like us who make mistakes too. I don't think every story line they have come up with has worked the way they thought it would so they have to make corrections it's just how life works

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I imagine there is not even complete agreement among the writers on how things ought to go at least some of the time. It is hard to argue with success overall. We know there are continuity errors. They have an idea of what continuity errors they can get away with. . 

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There are so many factors at play here:

I think in general they have a good handle on the characters and as such the idea of Lenny eloping in Vegas, for example, fits the characters personality/history. Similarly, I also think they have a good sense of how much drama this show can take. It's okay to mix it up a bit, even for a sitcom. They did however take a risk here that the whole thing wouldn't be received all that well and I can only imagine this as a deliberate action on their part cause you don't write both of your main couples in shambles at the end of the episode and expect your audience be happy about that. What you are aiming for with that is have them root for the characters to fix it - they did that with Lenny right away while Shamy got the whole first half of the season filled with drama.

Point is, I don't think they wrote 9x01 as this huge Lenny dream wedding and just accidentally got it wrong or whatever. So I don't think they "fucked up" with that per se (YMMV on the details). But of course in taking a risk with the surrounding conflicts they made a whole bunch of you (rightfully) angry and this is probably where their miscalculation lies. It certainly didn't help that the commercials advertised it as the "wedding of the year" and such leaving the unspoiled audience even more disappointed.

Now, did they come up with the re-do to make amends? Did they plan that from the beginning?? Hard to tell. As the story goes it was Johnny who chatted up JH to play his dad and then the whole thing gained momentum and we got the now 3-episodes long story kinda wedged into the end of S9/the beginning of S10. But seeing how Johnny didn't seem that impressed with the wedding at the time (like, when asked about his fave Lenny moment that season he mentioned the one from Big Bear which they threw together last minute and not the big milestone, which I found kinda telling) I like to imagine that he was kinda low key seeding this re-do idea, like "Hey guys, JH agreed to play my dad... if that ever comes up... you know like... *cough*aweddingredo*cough*" lol (I'm just making this up but I always love it when actors root for their couple! haha)

Anyway, I digress... The point I initially wanted to make was that while I think they get most things right (again, YMMV on the details) they are also just human and writing, especially comedy, is a very subjective craft. People like what they like and the writers can only try their best here. It's sometimes hard to tell what'll work and what doesn't. A joke that worked in the writers room and even all through rehearsals might fall flat for the live audience and they try to fix it right away. Then there are jokes that still work with the live audience but fall flat on telly for some reason. It happens. An then there are also jokes that they regret having made in the first place because, like the often cited Fiasal example, people latch onto the most random lines and pester them about it much longer than the issue deserves.

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14 hours ago, Lady in Red said:

Don't they need the wide hallway to allow for the TV cameras?  Or, does this discussion assume the fourth wall is in place?  :icon_wink:

Depends, Yes they need a wider hallway to accommodate the cameras. However, if this is supposed to be a real Apt. the hallway is too wide. Also, as Tensor pointed out, Penny's Apt. would be hanging out over the street.

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4 hours ago, djsurrey said:

I imagine there is not even complete agreement among the writers on how things ought to go at least some of the time. It is hard to argue with success overall. We know there are continuity errors. They have an idea of what continuity errors they can get away with. . 

They have reached 10 seasons and looking at more. These folks collectively are empirically among the best in the world at what they do. Their mission is to stay on screens - and they are kicking it. Sometimes how they do that is a little unfortunate... but never mind the quality, feel the width. And the sugar highs.

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2 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

They have reached 10 seasons and looking at more. These folks collectively are empirically among the best in the world at what they do. Their mission is to stay on screens - and they are kicking it. Sometimes how they do that is a little unfortunate... but never mind the quality, feel the width. And the sugar highs.

I think we watch the boob tube for simple entertainment for the hoi polloi. Quality is found in books.

Edited by djsurrey
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It's a comedy and should largely remain that but I have no problem with them introducing some drama or heartbreak every once in a while. This is a show about a group of individuals with their unique personalities, traits, quirks or interests trying to navigate through life and whatever it throws at them. Life isn't easy or rosy, it's full of ups and downs and I think it's good the show reflects that at times.

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19 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Of course it is a joke.

Sorry I expressed myself wrong. I mean of course this was supposed to be a joke although I don't see why it's funny. It's really disrespectful to Leonard IMO. 

Edited by camelliayao
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15 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

Sorry I expressed myself wrong. I mean of course this was supposed to be a joke although I don't see why it's funny. It's really disrespectful to Leonard IMO. 

Reading the report I agree with you. It may appear differently on TV depending on how Bernadette says it.

Edited by Chrismo
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1 hour ago, djsurrey said:

Perhaps there is a good sign here. We have had three taping reports and most the gripes are about early season 9.  :icon_biggrin:

Good point, season 10 is off to a much better start than 9, we should be thankful.

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2 hours ago, camelliayao said:

Nah, I can't tolerate Shenny and 902 kiss not because I see them as threats to canons since Bill had emphasized several times a romantic Shenny will never happen. I can't tolerate them simply because I think they're gross. 

Speaking of gross, I can't tolerate the "other husband/weird husband" line in the latest TR either. I'm not surprised at all that Sheldon is in Lenny's wedding, like, what do you expect. If the line was "husband and wife and son", I'll be totally fine with it. But actually calling Sheldon "the other husband" in Lenny's marriage with Leonard standing right there is a bit too much IMO. But I'm sure this is just a joke. 

I thought Bernie's line was gross also. The scene was pre taped and only shown once. When Sheldon hugged Lenny, there was so much laughing and "aaawwwing" from the audience, it was difficult to hear Bernie's line. Let's hope I got it wrong, or they completely edit it out !

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17 minutes ago, heres2U said:

I thought Bernie's line was gross also. The scene was pre taped and only shown once. When Sheldon hugged Lenny, there was so much laughing and "aaawwwing" from the audience, it was difficult to hear Bernie's line. Let's hope I got it wrong, or they completely edit it out !

Fingers crossed lol !!! 

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On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 11:03 AM, djsurrey said:

1) I agree. I think they know what they are doing. By creating a little chaos they get attention and then get to do make-up episodes.

2) They write comedy sure. That does not mean they are barred from writing in some drama to get some attention.

1) I don't think they know what they're doing all the time. The chaos they created is, IMO because they fucked up. What's the point of getting to do make up episodes? How about getting it right the first time?

2) They are not barred to write some drama. However when like in 8.24 it is mostly drama where's the sitcom part?

All of this JMO

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I don't really have a problem with the show turning in drama-heavy episodes, or even shifting gradually to a drama with funny moments, if they so choose. They have the cast to carry it off. I don't, however, think they have the writerly....stamina? attention-span? stomach?....to do so. 

You see, for me, for drama to land, I have to believe that big events have meaning.* They have to make sense for the characters and situation, and they have to have an impact on the trajectories of characters and situations. Otherwise, it's not really a drama so much as white noise.

And right now, I really don't think the writers want their Big Events to have any meaning. Leonard kissed another girl while drunk, and felt awful about it. So far, so plausible. Do I buy that he would do this and sit on the information for two years while showing no guilt and getting engaged to the love of his life? I do not. But I was willing to go along with it in the hopes that we'd explore what's going on with Leonard, and that-please, please-the show would give up the ghost with its tiresome schtick of 'Leonard is a sadsack nebbish who would have died alone and loveless were it not for the unattainable but capricious goddess Penny, whom he lured into his bed with his steadfastness and persistence.' Did anyone ever buy any of those things? 

But nope. Wedding happened, Penny kicked Leonard to the kerb but took him back after being instructed by the girls to thank God fasting that Leonard chose her. Which, by the way, however angry it makes me, still hints at the demise of The Saga Of The Goddess And The Homunculus. Or so I thought. But here we are, in Season Ten, and we still have Penny joking about Leonard wearing her down, and Leonard only being valued because he got the hottie to marry him. Oy.

The Shamy breakup, about which I have spilt so much e-ink already. Highlights: breakup, much unhappiness from Sheldon, Amy....is also there I guess. But at least here's an opportunity for Sheldon to think about how much he takes Amy for granted (and, by the way, vice versa), for Sheldon to think about desire and sex in his relationship, and for Amy to think about her expectations of relationships and how much they are influenced by popular culture and her female friends' very different relationships with very different men. Not only that, Sheldon has an engagement ring and the two had sex! Hooray! And here we are, in Season Ten, and-with occasional breaks for Sheldon to punch through the Fourth Wall and tell the audience that The Breakup Was Important, Okay- the show still has Amy cadging and hoping (first for a repeat of sex, now for marriage), while Sheldon's obliviousness lets her down with a giant thump. Wonderful.

So it's a bit difficult to think of these things as dramatic developments anymore, when I know that they won't ultimately matter. I can enjoy cute things like the tag scene of Big Bear, or Amy's harp-playing, or the girls bonding over career stuff, but they're just icing. I'm going to borrow @Lionne's analogy of the show being like a bore at a party who occasionally says some interesting things, but mostly tells the same stories over. And over. And over. Again. And in this case, the party bore has been telling this interminable story that involves a (Big) bang, and you keep getting promised that it was a gunshot, and there'll be an investigation, and it'll be amazing, but you eventually find out that a paper bag exploded across the street. That's it. That's the story.

Not to mention the show's tender, sweet, sincere avowal of its commitment: to the concept of the show as being now and forever about The Big Three, with occasional, unimportant, quickly-forgotten appearances from everyone else. Didn't you have a lump in your throat when they were declared woman, husband and other weird husband? When you thought of Season 968096872q0948572098671048595876, with Lenny and Sheldon still in apartment 4A, conversing through a bedroom wall about the terrifying prospect of Leonard's aunt's husband's stepdaughter-from-previous-marriage's cousin's niece getting it on with Sheldon's third-cousin-five-times-removed's husband's daughter's foreign exchange student? I did. I definitely had a lump in my throat. Thankfully I had my bucket handy. 

* By the way, I think this is true of comedy as well, just that with comedy you can maybe forgive more.

Edited by wowbagger
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35 minutes ago, wowbagger said:

I don't really have a problem with the show turning in drama-heavy episodes, or even shifting gradually to a drama with funny moments, if they so choose. They have the cast to carry it off. I don't, however, think they have the writerly....stamina? attention-span? stomach?....to do so. 

You see, for me, for drama to land, I have to believe that big events have meaning.* They have to make sense for the characters and situation, and they have to have an impact on the trajectories of characters and situations. Otherwise, it's not really a drama so much as white noise.

And right now, I really don't think the writers want their Big Events to have any meaning.

So agree with you. I think since season 7, the show has got into a habit of creating arguably unnecessary dramas and conflicts for shock values. In addition to that, those dramas and conflicts usually end with nothing. As a result, I often find myself saying "So, that's it? The episode just ends like that?"

The main reason that I still read TRs and watch the show week by week nowadays instead of watching a whole season once is that I'm very curious about how exactly the writers are going to deal with Shamy coitus now that they have missed so many opportunities since their first time to the point it's getting really hard for them to fix the "mess". Disappointed as I am, I'm still holding the faith that the writers do see things the same way as some of us shippers do, that they will find a way to solve the the Shamy coitus problem perfectly. Because in the end if Shamy indeed do it once a year under a pact, the writers will ruin a part of Shamy permanently for me. So here I am, hoping on every taping day, that this episode will be "THE" episode.

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47 minutes ago, camelliayao said:

So agree with you. I think since season 7, the show has got into a habit of creating arguably unnecessary dramas and conflicts for shock values. In addition to that, those dramas and conflicts usually end with nothing. As a result, I often find myself saying "So, that's it? The episode just ends like that?"

The main reason that I still read TRs and watch the show week by week nowadays instead of watching a whole season once is that I'm very curious about how exactly the writers are going to deal with Shamy coitus now that they have missed so many opportunities since their first time to the point it's getting really hard for them to fix the "mess". Disappointed as I am, I'm still holding the faith that the writers do see things the same way as some of us shippers do, that they will find a way to solve the the Shamy coitus problem perfectly. Because in the end if Shamy indeed do it once a year under a pact, the writers will ruin a part of Shamy permanently for me. So here I am, hoping on every taping day, that this episode will be "THE" episode.

I'm very curious too. We're kind of in another season now, so it's starting to be a bit ridiculous that this hasn't been resolved yet. I get keeping up the suspense and all that stuff but this is weird. I mean, Amy has mentioned a few times that she wants to do it again so they must be going somewhere with this but still I don't get how it makes sense from a writer's pov to let this drag into another season.

I remember reading all the posts after the tr for 9.11 aired and everyone was talking about this plot being revisited. It's being almost a year since then and I'm sure that if any of the posters had been told at the time that there would still be a big question mark about this they wouldn't believe it. There's 7 or 8 eps until the Christmas one to tape so once more, we're in "Maybe in the next one???" mode.

 

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On 03/09/2016 at 6:24 AM, Judith said:

but still I don't get how it makes sense from a writer's pov to let this drag into another season.

 

Just another gag I'd say. The writers are not constrained by realistic.

211130-I-Got-A-Rock....jpg

Edited by djsurrey
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