[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

[3ku11]

 Stuff like Penny Leonard wore me down. Sheldon Bazinga to Amy. Eye rolling e.t.c. Are just long running gags. Like it was in Friends with Ross the Divorce Force. I mean all this how it makes the character look. Penny said this, so that means something. IT is just a little joke the TPTB put in, as their target audiene is casual fans. Who don't care that much about character integrity, or how it makes the show look Anymore then they do the person down the street. They are just tuning in for a laugh. All I am saying is I don't think the show need to be consistent in characterization all the time. I have just learnt to laugh it off, how many times have they thrown in stuff like this. And nothing changing by the end of the episode? As it is the show is less funny. Penny going Leonard wore me down, is just a long running gag. As is Leonard being degraded in his work. IT means nothing. Does not even bother me. Because I know it is constant, and I Cannot do anything about it. I would like Leonard to be praised, and get credit. But that is not the narrative they want to tell. They need to handicap Leonard, so the audience feel sorry for him. They know the more they do it, the more the audience well see through it. IT is like with Lenny's banter. Or Penny making comments, it is jsut normal banter, that has always existed between Lenny. I have neer thought for one second, Penny was being mean to Leonard, NEVER. Theirs aactually a ton more examples, of Penny being insecure, and a fear of loosing Leonard, then her being snarky towarsd Leonard.  She has prooved tons of times she loves Leonard and no one else. It is like if I Watched another comedy, that I diddn't follow as much as BBT. And someone asid something not very positive, I Would laugh. BEcause my level of investment is not as deep. I think were so dedicated to our ships. And the integirty and consistency of the show. We lose sight of what the show actually is, a comedy. Ironically it has been a drama more then a comed. Point is hipeuflly S10 returns to being a comedy. 

[wonder63]

If they delay the final for 3 more years. I expect Shamy's wedding will be the series final - I mean shamy are progressing at a slow rate. Would not surprise me. Penny having a baby in the final episode too. 

[Kathy2611]

12 minutes ago, wonder63 said:

If they delay the final for 3 more years. I expect Shamy's wedding will be the series final - I mean shamy are progressing at a slow rate. Would not surprise me. Penny having a baby in the final episode too. 

If they sign another 3 year deal, yes, they'd drag it out A LITTLE longer but I don't think they'd be able to drag out a Shamy wedding that long.  Everyone, including Amy, already knows about the ring and fans, both shippers, casual, and critics/media would get bored and it would reek of stall tactics and people would get bored and stop caring.  Once you get fans that stop caring, they stop watching on a regular basis.  

They can't keep going the way they are for another 3 years.  Living arrangements are  already getting to be ridiculous and fans and critics alike have already voiced this.  They'd have to get out of their comfort zone a little.

[Carm6773]

We all know that Penny is a Nebraska football fan, wonder if this will somehow work its way into the BBT world:

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17461894&sf35101342=1

Maybe a picture of the fallen punter (or his number) in Penny's apartment?

[boys3allc]

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[3ku11]

I personally think Shamy being a gray area by series final is an option, yeah I know, but I woulden't be surprised. IF their is a Shamy wedding, I Think second to last episode. And the series final Penny gives birth, and they homage the pilot. 

[Chiany]

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

I personally think Shamy being a gray area by series final is an option, yeah I know, but I woulden't be surprised. IF their is a Shamy wedding, I Think second to last episode. And the series final Penny gives birth, and they homage the pilot. 

Why not combine the two, Penny revealing her pregnancy just before/after the wedding.

[djsurrey]

I find Sheldon and Amy to have an odd set of contradictions. Sheldon could propose some time in season 10. I don't expect it but the writers love to surprise us. The thing is Sheldon mostly holds contempt for cultural traditions and norms. Why does he have a ring and why would he consider marriage?

 

[mirs1]

23 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

I find Sheldon and Amy to have an odd set of contradictions. Sheldon could propose some time in season 10. I don't expect it but the writers love to surprise us. The thing is Sheldon mostly holds contempt for cultural traditions and norms. Why does he have a ring and why would he consider marriage?

 

Yes, he does, but, even reluctantly, he usually conforms to them; I found him a rather old fashioned kind of guy and, once he embraces any kind of social convention or norm, he's all in for that.

Edited September 5, 2016 by mirs1

[djsurrey]

11 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

Yes, he does, but, even reluctantly, he usually conforms to them; I found him a rather old fashioned kind of guy and, once he embraces any kind of social convention or norm, he's all in for that.

Like a rotting log sprouting mushrooms rather than flowers.

That'd smell, woodsy fresh. ahem

Edited September 5, 2016 by djsurrey

[mirs1]

20 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Like a rotting log sprouting mushrooms rather than flowers.

That'd smell, woodsy fresh. ahem

Like buying a birthday present because it's a "non optional social convention" or embracing most of the traditions connected to a prom, once he realized it was inevitable...

[April]

52 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

I find Sheldon and Amy to have an odd set of contradictions. Sheldon could propose some time in season 10. I don't expect it but the writers love to surprise us.

Sheldon proposing in S10 would be one of the least surprising things. The question isn't really whether or not he will propose but rather how he does it.

52 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

The thing is Sheldon mostly holds contempt for cultural traditions and norms. Why does he have a ring and why would he consider marriage?

A couple of things:

• contract: If you strip away all the hippie-dippy stuff marriage is a social contract between two people. The highest tier of a relationship agreement, if you will. For that reason alone I'd find it absolutely believable that Sheldon would consider it.
• character development: Sheldon has come to embrace quite a few things that years earlier he would have scoffed at. Love does funny things to you sometimes.
• the nature of the ring: It's a family heirloom that was given to him by his mother. And apparently it also belonged to his beloved Meemaw at some point. So this particular ring holds an emotional value as well.

[Jonny]

I don't see how they could delay a proposal until say Season 11 or later if they do get a new deal in place, from a character standpoint view with Amy knowing about the ring it has to happen this season. The actual marriage happening near the very end of the show? Quite possible though I personally would have liked to see at least a season with them trying to adjust to married life as it could provide some good comedy.

Like others have said deep down Sheldon is more of a traditional guy than some think he is and when he has decided on something and is happy with it he goes all in. Plus like April said he's in love and sometimes that can change your mind on a lot of things and open you to different possibilities.

[joyceraye]

3 hours ago, djsurrey said:

  3 hours ago, mirs1 said:

Yes, he does, but, even reluctantly, he usually conforms to them; I found him a rather old fashioned kind of guy and, once he embraces any kind of social convention or norm, he's all in for that.

And despite a woodsy-fresh mushroom log being more sensible to his mind, he bought flowers and a balloon for Amy's birthday because he'd learned that's the sort of thing she wanted. He'd  sent flowers to Leonard's mother, although she didn't want any, because they both accepted it was the done thing.

Leonard once told Penny she could get Sheldon to do anything by telling him it was a non-optional social convention. He's a good learner : 'I watch movies, I see what people do.'

[Carlos]

On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 5:42 PM, Nogravitasatall said:

They have reached 10 seasons and looking at more. These folks collectively are empirically among the best in the world at what they do. Their mission is to stay on screens - and they are kicking it. Sometimes how they do that is a little unfortunate... but never mind the quality, feel the width. And the sugar highs.

I agree with you, of course , and as I said a little while ago, the problem lies within the fact that TPTB objectives and our (and by our I mean us hard cores) expectations differ greatly. They want to stay on the screens as long as they can and we want what we think would be the best story possible. Finance and artistic integrity rarely overlap greatly. There might be a tiny area of intersection , but it is never, IMO, very large. 

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 7:10 AM, wowbagger said:

I don't really have a problem with the show turning in drama-heavy episodes, or even shifting gradually to a drama with funny moments, if they so choose. They have the cast to carry it off. I don't, however, think they have the writerly....stamina? attention-span? stomach?....to do so. 

You see, for me, for drama to land, I have to believe that big events have meaning.* They have to make sense for the characters and situation, and they have to have an impact on the trajectories of characters and situations. Otherwise, it's not really a drama so much as white noise.

And right now, I really don't think the writers want their Big Events to have any meaning. Leonard kissed another girl while drunk, and felt awful about it. So far, so plausible. Do I buy that he would do this and sit on the information for two years while showing no guilt and getting engaged to the love of his life? I do not. But I was willing to go along with it in the hopes that we'd explore what's going on with Leonard, and that-please, please-the show would give up the ghost with its tiresome schtick of 'Leonard is a sadsack nebbish who would have died alone and loveless were it not for the unattainable but capricious goddess Penny, whom he lured into his bed with his steadfastness and persistence.' Did anyone ever buy any of those things? 

But nope. Wedding happened, Penny kicked Leonard to the kerb but took him back after being instructed by the girls to thank God fasting that Leonard chose her. Which, by the way, however angry it makes me, still hints at the demise of The Saga Of The Goddess And The Homunculus. Or so I thought. But here we are, in Season Ten, and we still have Penny joking about Leonard wearing her down, and Leonard only being valued because he got the hottie to marry him. Oy.

The Shamy breakup, about which I have spilt so much e-ink already. Highlights: breakup, much unhappiness from Sheldon, Amy....is also there I guess. But at least here's an opportunity for Sheldon to think about how much he takes Amy for granted (and, by the way, vice versa), for Sheldon to think about desire and sex in his relationship, and for Amy to think about her expectations of relationships and how much they are influenced by popular culture and her female friends' very different relationships with very different men. Not only that, Sheldon has an engagement ring and the two had sex! Hooray! And here we are, in Season Ten, and-with occasional breaks for Sheldon to punch through the Fourth Wall and tell the audience that The Breakup Was Important, Okay- the show still has Amy cadging and hoping (first for a repeat of sex, now for marriage), while Sheldon's obliviousness lets her down with a giant thump. Wonderful.

So it's a bit difficult to think of these things as dramatic developments anymore, when I know that they won't ultimately matter. I can enjoy cute things like the tag scene of Big Bear, or Amy's harp-playing, or the girls bonding over career stuff, but they're just icing. I'm going to borrow @Lionne's analogy of the show being like a bore at a party who occasionally says some interesting things, but mostly tells the same stories over. And over. And over. Again. And in this case, the party bore has been telling this interminable story that involves a (Big) bang, and you keep getting promised that it was a gunshot, and there'll be an investigation, and it'll be amazing, but you eventually find out that a paper bag exploded across the street. That's it. That's the story.

Not to mention the show's tender, sweet, sincere avowal of its commitment: to the concept of the show as being now and forever about The Big Three, with occasional, unimportant, quickly-forgotten appearances from everyone else. Didn't you have a lump in your throat when they were declared woman, husband and other weird husband? When you thought of Season 9680968720948572098671048595876, with Lenny and Sheldon still in apartment 4A, conversing through a bedroom wall about the terrifying prospect of Leonard's aunt's husband's stepdaughter-from-previous-marriage's cousin's niece getting it on with Sheldon's third-cousin-five-times-removed's husband's daughter's foreign exchange student? I did. I definitely had a lump in my throat. Thankfully I had my bucket handy. 

* By the way, I think this is true of comedy as well, just that with comedy you can maybe forgive more.

This post is perfection. Pure and simple. Kudos, wowbagger, absolute perfection. Thank you for expressing my thoughts so eloquently and precisely. They say truth is universal, and your post certainly proves that.

[Tensor]

5 hours ago, Jonny83 said:

I don't see how they could delay a proposal until say Season 11 or later if they do get a new deal in place, from a character standpoint view with Amy knowing about the ring it has to happen this season. 

Nothing has to happen this season.  The TPTB are masters of coming up with reason for something not to happen.  They open ended the Lenny engagement(see The Tangible Affection Proof) and how long ago should Lenny have moved out?  And how long did it take for Shamy to have coitus or even get Sheldon to kiss Amy?

[spidergirl]

35 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Nothing has to happen this season.  The TPTB are masters of coming up with reason for something not to happen.  They open ended the Lenny engagement(see The Tangible Affection Proof) and how long ago should Lenny have moved out?  And how long did it take for Shamy to have coughs or even get Sheldon to kiss Amy?

Agreed. I have been rewatching season 9 as I have got my dvd and that feeling is really a bit frustrating and it increases as more I re watch:

24 episodes and with exception of shamy intercourse, imo ,there are many things that were rushed, like shamy reunion, the lack of a proper apology between them , the lack of a talk about the break up, the absence of a lenny move out and began a life together as by themselves as a married couple and Raj's romantical mess as he is right now. And it lacks so much science and heavy nerdy stuff...

 I know it is a 18-22 sitcom but some things seem a bit uncomplete as we rewatch carefully the whole season. Raj then is the character that was poorly treated in last season, imo, as he may have so many potential for clever and funny stituations.

Edited September 5, 2016 by spidergirl1975

[mirs1]

3 minutes ago, spidergirl1975 said:

Raj then is the character that was poorly treated in last season, imo, as he may have so many potential for clever and funny stituations.

I think we might start seeing something on the Raj front in the next episode taped. Up to now, he is the only character that hasn't had a story on his own, he was just a supporting actor to the guys plot and to Bernie and her pregnancy.  IMO, the way the writers handled his character in the last couple of season was very bad. He barely had a couple of science plots, and his "love" life went from bad to worse, with no proper focus  to Emily or to his doubts about her. I really hope they will solve pretty soon his harem conundrum, that was really painful to watch last season...

[djsurrey]

10 hours ago, Jonny83 said:

Like others have said deep down Sheldon is more of a traditional guy than some think he is and when he has decided on something and is happy with it he goes all in. Plus like April said he's in love and sometimes that can change your mind on a lot of things and open you to different possibilities.

I imagine Sheldon throwing Lenny out and proposing to Amy in one grand gesture.

"Wonder of wonders, Miracle of miracles"

But I don't think our Sheldon has the desire. I imagine it is going to take something like being hit by lightning or being pissed off with Leonard and Penny to flip the switch. Perhaps a bite from one of Amy's monkeys or Bernadette slipping him some of that "Love Potion #9".

 

[Nogravitasatall]

11 hours ago, Tensor said:

Nothing has to happen this season.  The TPTB are masters of coming up with reason for something not to happen.  They open ended the Lenny engagement(see The Tangible Affection Proof) and how long ago should Lenny have moved out?  And how long did it take for Shamy to have coitus or even get Sheldon to kiss Amy?

It's similar to a Groundhog Day but without the last act. (As an aside I really liked the idea of Groundhog Day.  Just how many lifetimes was Bill Murray's character trapped before he transitioned. Wow.). But a long run sitcom is not a feature film. Totally different objectives. Episodic TV with no upfront retirement date just wants you to have your eyes on the screen so you see the ads. TBBT is maybe almost a soap, with no real obligation to wrap up the story until they shut down - and even then not. I do wonder about how long they can continue with the premise as it is. Then again, maybe they churn their audience, rather than track it, so perhaps the wider audience doesn't care about... um, agelessness, as long as they get the shennanigans. IDK. None of these creatives are stupid and they certainly have hit their marks. Still, they have all the ingredients at hand to bake the wrap party cake. 

I'm now watching Fringe. Thank you SVOD.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Nogravitasatall

[3ku11]

Raj was treated poorly, because he deserves to be. I guess they could do Shamy wedding and Penny pregnancy in one episode. But not sure they could fit in, so a two parter seems more likely. Nothing about Shamy is conventional, so I don't really get why Shamy need to get married. How about one couple not conform to the convention. Their is nothing wroung with a couple on a sitcom living together and not getting married. Lenny was always heading that way, Because of the premise, but imo I don't think Shamy need marrage. Let's have something on the show, that is non tradational. 

[Carlos]

6 hours ago, djsurrey said:

I imagine Sheldon throwing Lenny out and proposing to Amy in one grand gesture.

"Wonder of wonders, Miracle of miracles"

But I don't think our Sheldon has the desire. I imagine it is going to take something like being hit by lightning or being pissed off with Leonard and Penny to flip the switch. Perhaps a bite from one of Amy's monkeys or Bernadette slipping him some of that "Love Potion #9".

And how about Lenny walks out because they can't strand him anymore? As I, and based on canon, the show see it, it is Lenny who's doing Sheldon the favor of staying and not vice versa.

[3ku11]

11 minutes ago, Carlos said:

And how about Lenny walks out because they can't strand him anymore? As I, and based on canon, the show see it, it is Lenny who's doing Sheldon the favor of staying and not vice versa.

I am not sure why in cannon Sheldon wants Lenny to live with him. I mean surley Lenny staying in 4A, is getting in the way of Amy moving in. Unless Sheldon is living with Lenny on purpose, to delay the process. Because he is simply not ready to increase his intimacy with Amy. If he wanted to live with Amy,  I am sure he would of asked Lenny to move out a long time ago. JMO. 

[djsurrey]

10 hours ago, Carlos said:

And how about Lenny walks out because they can't strand him anymore? As I, and based on canon, the show see it, it is Lenny who's doing Sheldon the favor of staying and not vice versa.

Yea, I expected that to happen a long time ago.  Penny went from "kill him while he sleeps" to being sympathetic. I just thought should standing up to Leonard and Penny might impress Amy.

Edited September 6, 2016 by djsurrey

[JE7]

1 hour ago, Carlos said:

And how about Lenny walks out because they can't strand him anymore? As I, and based on canon, the show see it, it is Lenny who's doing Sheldon the favor of staying and not vice versa.

Because this has become the Sheldon show. TPTB need Lenny close to react to and be the butt of his "comedy".

That's why the drastic change in the penny character from wanting to kill him to being "sympathetic"